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In GNS Model Discussion

11/30/2004 Tony Irwin: Setting Premise Narrativism
Can anyone summarise and help me understand setting premise narrativism? I've already read this thread but would really appreciate some help with the idea. Many thanks! Tony
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Tony Irwin, timfire, Paul Czege, Sean.

11/28/2004 Stuart Parker: Mechanics as symbol sets II (split)
Rather than starting a new thread about the same thing you guys were discussing 6 weeks ago, I thought I would raise a similar issue here: I have never managed…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Stuart Parker, GaryTP, Ron Edwards, contracycle, clehrich, Artanis, Jere.

11/28/2004 Stuart Parker: When was Illusionism added?
Some time ago, I tried to fit my group's style of play into the GNS model and came away very frustrated. In re-reading the essay this morning, I noticed the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Stuart Parker, John Kim.

11/28/2004 Silmenume: Ramblings on the role of Mechanics in CA's (fishing)
I am not certain whether this is a statement which is seeking debate or just a half baked idea presented to see if it leads anywhere (i.e. fishing). I have…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, clehrich, Marco, contracycle, Simon Kamber, M. J. Young, Caldis.

11/26/2004 Vaxalon: Delete this thread.
Never mind. Delete this thread.
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Vaxalon.

11/23/2004 Troy_Costisick: Understanding GNS
Heya, Please forgive me if any of this has been stated before as I am still very much a student in learning when it comes to GNS theory and the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Troy_Costisick, Mike Holmes, Ben Lehman, Ron Edwards, timfire, M. J. Young.

11/22/2004 timfire: Binary Narrativism (relates to CRPG's)
[url=http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?p=143314#143314]Somewhere else[/url], Mike Holmes said this: [quote="Mike Holmes"]If, on the other hand, you want to go with a real narrativism based [[i]computer[/i]] design, then we're talking about getting into an…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: timfire, Matt Wilson, Mike Holmes, Adam Dray, Noon, Walt Freitag, contracycle, clehrich, epweissengruber, M. J. Young, Selene Tan.

11/9/2004 John Kim: Moral Articulation and GNS
OK, this is split from Classifying by Social Function, as I thought this is an interesting topic -- but not really a part of generally classifying by social…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, pete_darby, clehrich, Alan, Blankshield.

11/8/2004 RobNJ: New World of Darkness, GNS analysis?
Has anyone reviewed the new World of Darkness games from a GNS perspective? I'd be curious to see what the opinion was.
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: RobNJ, Trevis Martin, Marco, sirogit, pfischer, Christopher Kubasik, Alan, Valamir, Eero Tuovinen, Erling Rognli, John Kim.

10/31/2004 greyorm: Typhoid Mary in Action?
Over in Frustrations with 3E, Callan said: For example, recently I pitched a very low key problematic situation to a player so he could address the premise (A guy with…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, Victor Gijsbers, Ron Edwards, sirogit, Noon.

10/26/2004 Wormwood: Play as Social Function
This is a split from Classifying By Social Function and is related to some discussions I started a while ago, Technical Play and the one word GNS. John asked me…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Wormwood, contracycle.

10/26/2004 Walt Freitag: Literary Comedy, Answered Premise, and Narrativism
Brought to a thread from private messages initiated by Tim Alexander: Hiya Walt, I was looking through the archives and in the midst of following a few threads I ended…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Walt Freitag, Ben Lehman, contracycle, pete_darby, Ron Edwards, Tim Alexander, Victor Gijsbers, GaryTP.

10/25/2004 Grover: (unnecessary?) Narratavist-Simulationist clashes
I recently got Sex and Sorcery, and I was reading through it, when one of the examples struck me in an odd way, and so I thought I would talk…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Grover, inky, Marco, Ron Edwards.

10/25/2004 karnov: preferences
first of all sorry for my grama nad spelling ..i got more ocasions for read in english then actualy write so ..... second. this forum and gns theory is for…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: karnov, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards.

10/20/2004 John Kim: Classifying By Social Function
OK, so I've been thinking about Ron's "celebration" definition for GNS Simulationism and Chris' analogy about anthropology in The Basis for Criticism. So here's my suggestion. It may…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, contracycle, Alan, Ron Edwards, Marco, ffilz, clehrich, WhiteRat, Landon Darkwood, pete_darby, Wormwood, Mike Holmes, Gelasma, Victor Gijsbers.

10/19/2004 apparition13: Re: Big Model as a Scientific Theory
[quote="Wormwood"] 4) The theory does not propose any experimental tests, and due to above points removes nearly any power that such tests could have, by enforcing a subjective basis for…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: apparition13, Ron Edwards, Wormwood, clehrich, lumpley, M. J. Young, TonyLB, Lxndr.

10/19/2004 Walt Freitag: "Sim: Realizing the Ideal"? (split)
This is split from this thread in which Ron and Eric (Technocrat13) discuss "the thing Simulationism needs," the way Gamist needs Challenge and Narrativism needs Story Now. Where Eric chose…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Walt Freitag, Technocrat13.

10/19/2004 Technocrat13: What does the Right to Dream require? (split)
In The Basis for Criticism Ron wrote: Story Now requires Premise, which is to say an imaginary situation which throws a real-world problematic issue up for judgmental grabs. Step On…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Technocrat13, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag, John Kim, contracycle, Silmenume, Valamir, Marco.

10/18/2004 Sean: Validation of Input in Sim
Marco asked about this in another thread. Marco, what did you think of Chris Kubasik's post here: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=12964&start=42 that seemed to me to be one fine example, if not of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Sean, Marco, John Kim, contracycle, Ron Edwards.

10/17/2004 Roger: The Basis for Criticism
(split from Musings on mechanics and The Dream) Again and again, people object that what I'm describing can't be what they do because the essay text doesn't feel like…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Roger, clehrich, John Kim, contracycle, Ron Edwards, Marco, jdagna.

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In GNS Model Discussion

12/1/2004 Gerhi Janse van Vuuren: GNS/Creative Agenda related to Bernard Suits' Game Theory
Trying to dive into the deep end here. I am writing up my masters dissertation in drama studies where I look at Bernard Suits theory of make believe games as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gerhi Janse van Vuuren, Alan.

12/6/2004 GB Steve: Still dreaming, or drifting?
I've been reading Ron's Simulationism: The Right to Dream. It's a lot of dense text to absorb, especially when I'm not a regular visitor to these shores. Anyway. I understand…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: GB Steve, TonyLB, Ron Edwards, Noon, John Kim, Marco, Rob Carriere.

12/6/2004 epweissengruber: (OT free association) How to Enable Verbal Play in a Game
Recent discussion have reminded me of a note I saw on the Gametheory.net webiste http://www.gametheory.net/News/Items/090.html The mathematics of drama is a welcome development. I look forward to the analysis of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: epweissengruber, Paul Czege, Ron Edwards.

12/8/2004 M. J. Young: Toward a New Creative Agendum Evaluation
Some years back, I devised a GNS/DFK quiz. There was a lot of debate about it, and although it is still available online (mainly, as with Ron's articles, for historic…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, Marco, Jasper, Wormwood, ffilz, beingfrank, clehrich, jdagna.

12/13/2004 Simon Kamber: Narrativism without premise, simulationism without sim?
I've been trying to identify my own CA for a while. I think I've gotten a handle on most of the GNS terminoligy here, and I can place most of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Simon Kamber, ethan_greer, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young, jdagna.

12/13/2004 John Kim: Social Function and Feedback in Narrativism
So I was struck by a recent comment of Chris Lehrich's in the thread Ramblings on the role of Mechanics in CA's (fishing). So I thought I would…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, clehrich, Ron Edwards.

12/15/2004 John Kim: GNS, Metagame, and Meaning
So there has been a lot of talk in Chris Lehrich's thread, On RPGs and Text . However, there have been some pointed comments about GNS there, including…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim.

12/31/2004 Silmenume: The Impossible Thing Before Breakfast
[quote="From the Provisional Glossary"]Impossible Thing Before Breakfast, the[list]"The GM is the author of the story and the players direct the actions of the protagonists." Widely repeated across many role-playing texts.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Caldis, Jaik, Brendan, John Kim, Ron Edwards, Marco, M. J. Young, Christopher Kubasik, Noon, greyorm, TonyLB, Valamir.

12/31/2004 Black Iris Dancer: On creativity and artificial boundaries
Hi, everyone. This being my first post, I figured some introduction was in order. I think that about sufficies. I found this site while looking for, of all things, legal…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Black Iris Dancer, Brendan, Trevis Martin, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young, xenopulse, clehrich, Marco, apparition13.

1/3/2005 Jaik: "Unconscious" accomodations for TITBB
[quote] I'm interested in this: [quote]Quote: The GM would say that he writes the story and the players would say that they play their characters however they wish. Neither side…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jaik, Marco, Bankuei, Valamir, M. J. Young, John Kim, contracycle, Ron Edwards.

1/5/2005 Artanis: Lumpley Principle, Authority and CA
Hello everyone! I've recently been trying to figure out what System really is. So I started off with the Lumpley Principle, as it defines what System is (according to the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Artanis, bcook1971, Ron Edwards.

1/6/2005 Tobias: Connection personality type - type of play.
I'm just looking for referrals here, but has anyone ever done some matching of the personality model that distinguishes three types of Quotient/personality (IQ, EC and CQ), with G, N,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Tobias, apparition13, Alan, M. J. Young, inky, Ron Edwards.

1/10/2005 Silmenume: Sim is Bricolage and makes myth - comments?
I boldly propose in this thread that the Sim process is Bricolage and that the product created is Myth. I list the following links that posters should read and be…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, contracycle, Mark Woodhouse, Ron Edwards, Halzebier, Lee Short, Marco, Caldis, lumpley, Mark D. Eddy, clehrich, John Kim.

1/10/2005 Silmenume: Sim has not be discussed as process yet it needs to be so -
In the year and a quarter that I have been at the Forge discussing Sim, I have found that there have been two basic, consistent errors in the process of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Vaxalon, Ron Edwards, Marco, contracycle, pete_darby.

1/11/2005 Marco: Re: Sim has not be discussed as process yet it needs to be s
[quote="contracycle"][quote="Marco"] I'm just sayin' [/quote] Yes Marco, but I think its that nuance that we can now lay to rest. I fully agree that retrospectively the prodct of sim oplay…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, Ron Edwards, contracycle, Valamir, Wormwood, The GM, Bankuei, Jaik, Silmenume, John Kim, clehrich, M. J. Young.

1/15/2005 Montola: Mechanics as symbol-sets (split)
[quote="clehrich"]Okay, I'm going to have to sit down and read this essay carefully. What you describe here, in terms of cultures favoring one type of representation over another, sounds simplistic…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Montola, Ron Edwards, clehrich.

1/21/2005 Silmenume: Celebrating Theme is Nar Equiv of the Gamist Crunch.
On another thread entitled Retroactive Story Ron Edwards make a post that caught my attention. The particular post can be found here. In it he describes a CoC game whereby…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Ron Edwards, timfire, Alan, Marco, C. Edwards, M. J. Young, Caldis, Noon, contracycle, Walt Freitag.

1/24/2005 Astrivian: Design v. Play: semantic questions about GNS, but mostly S
I have been reading the articles about the GNS model and a few threads and i have a question regarding the design and play of the GNS model. Note: if…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Astrivian, Ron Edwards, Marco, Silmenume, Paganini.

1/26/2005 Wormwood: [Deceit] Deception in the Big Model
Caveat: This stems from a post by Lisa, here. For the purposes of these threads the moral implications of deceit should be ignored. This is really the only way to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Wormwood, Ron Edwards.

1/27/2005 GB Steve: Is gamism about facing the challenge or wanting the rewards?
Or both or neither? I'm a little confused. For example. 3e seems squarely aimed at ratcheting up challenges and giving just enough rewards so that those challenges stay interesting (i.e.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: GB Steve, Ron Edwards.

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