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In GNS Model Discussion

5/21/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: Rune - the analysis
I managed to pick up Atlas Games' Rune this weekend and am about half-way through it. So far, I think it's a masterpiece, but I was biased going in. It's…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, Jared A. Sorensen, hardcoremoose, Mike Holmes, Ian O'Rourke, Valamir.

5/20/2001 joshua neff: three-headed dog
over on rpg.net, someone posted a question, asking which game he should buy, "rune", "dying earth", or "pendragon"... & it just struck me: is this a great example of "gamist",…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: joshua neff, james_west, Paul Czege, Ron Edwards, Ian O'Rourke.

5/18/2001 Dav: Gygax is still alive?
The man should be caned. RPGNet: Beginning around the early 1990s, the roleplaying world experienced a "movement," the nature and definition of which is still up for furious debate, characterized…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Dav, Ron Edwards, Clinton R. Nixon, joshua neff, Logan, Jared A. Sorensen, Zak Arntson, Gordon C. Landis, james_west, Mytholder, Paul Czege.

5/16/2001 james_west: strong vs weak narrativism
(I apologize in advance for any possible mangling of others' words or meanings.) I've seen a lot of apparently quite different definitions of narrativism in this forum. Upon reflection, however,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: james_west, joshua neff, Ron Edwards, Blake Hutchins.

5/13/2001 greyorm: Some more definition insanity
In a recent message here, Ron, it seemed you were saying that the narrative game has far-reaching plots set-up in advance ala Tolkien and the simulationist game is more like…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, Ron Edwards, james_west.

5/12/2001 Ian O'Rourke: Player Behaviour Dangers
I tend to agree with Ron (and whoever else), as I think GNS can be used to classify player behaviour, most people fall into one category in the main. I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian O'Rourke, Logan, Ron Edwards, Zak Arntson, hardcoremoose, joshua neff, james_west, Gordon C. Landis.

5/11/2001 james_west: friendlier G/N/S definitions
I've been thinking about a less confrontational set of G/N/S definitions: see what you think. Put this way, I think most people would call themselves Gamist ... note that by…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: james_west, Logan, Jared A. Sorensen, Gordon C. Landis, Zak Arntson, Ron Edwards, greyorm, joshua neff, Paul Czege, GreatWolf, Mike Holmes.

5/10/2001 Gordon C. Landis: "Story" thoughts
Great stuff here, everyone. I'm never sure I actually understand G/N/S, nor if it is even really a "good" analysis of RPGs in general, but it (and the discussions on…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, james_west, Ron Edwards, joshua neff.

5/10/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: Psychological simulationism
In the Feng Shui thread, it was asked if any thought had been given to psychological simulationism in RPGs. My three examples to rip apart would be: The White Wolf…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, Ron Edwards, Jared A. Sorensen.

5/10/2001 james_west: theoretical game spaces (17k in images)
I'd not heard of the narrativist/gamist/simulationist axes before looking over this website a few days ago. However, I've looked over not only the material here but related material on other…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: james_west, Ron Edwards.

5/9/2001 Logan: Incorrect Assumptions
Some of our assumptions about the G/S/D and also G/N/S may be incorrect. For instance, Ron and I have thought that John Kim's 3-fold debate didn't go anywhere. Not true.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan, james_west, Ron Edwards, greyorm.

5/9/2001 Ron Edwards: A proposed policy for all of us
Hey, I'm thinking about the inevitable day when someone shows up at the Forge and launches into an anti-G/N/S rant. I'm not talking about an honest inquiry, even if it's…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Clinton R. Nixon, greyorm, james_west.

5/9/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: System doesn't matter, as narrated by E. Gary Gygax
(from a recent interview at http://www.cdmag.com/Home/home.html?article=/articles/032/127/010507-f2.html) Interviewer: There are quite a few "freeware" role-playing games on the Internet these days... EGG: Right. And they're worth every penny you pay…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, Dav, Ron Edwards, Mytholder, Jason L Blair, greyorm.

5/8/2001 Ian O'Rourke: Fengshui: Simulationist?
Okay, I understand why it could be viewed as simulationist (and may be it is), as it puts all its mechanics into simulating an action movie world. What concerns me…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian O'Rourke, Ron Edwards, Mytholder, George Pletz, Clinton R. Nixon, Jared A. Sorensen, Mike Holmes, Valamir, Gordon C. Landis.

5/5/2001 poppocabba: defining player types
here is the start of another article I was thinking that the traditional descriptions of rpg players are not unified enough, and given the contrasts in my current ground I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: poppocabba, Ron Edwards.

5/2/2001 poppocabba: method roleplaying
here is an article I am starting work on and looking for some feedback as to how to incorporate these ideas into an rpg design Radio Method role playing Introduction…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: poppocabba, Ron Edwards.

5/2/2001 George Pletz: Drift, Synergy, & The Great Unspoken
Hello all! In Paul's thread, A Variant Phylogeny, Ron made a comment about how early RPG may have played as narrativist but were written in simulation. This made me think…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: George Pletz, Mytholder, Ron Edwards.

4/30/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: All out for Gamism
Perhaps because it seems to be the newest evolution in RPG's, Narrativism seems to get a tremendous focus in terms of what elements are needed for a good Narrativist game.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, Ron Edwards, GreatWolf, Mytholder, Dav, Ian O'Rourke.

4/30/2001 Paul Czege: a variant phylogeny
Hey everyone, Somewhere in our G/N/S thoughts, between the creation of the RPG hobby in the 70's by TSR with a Gamist game and more recent developments of Narrativist game…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paul Czege, GreatWolf, Clinton R. Nixon, Ron Edwards.

4/27/2001 Paul Czege: GM control of player character concept across G/N/S
Hey everyone, Years ago, I came up with a scenario concept for AD&D that required all the player characters to be clerics. I think the idea was that a sacred…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paul Czege, Ron Edwards.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

5/23/2001 Logan: GM Bias
This is the beginning of a discussion about GM bias. So far, G/N/S has addressed the behaviors of designers and players. But GMs also have preferences, and I think these…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan, Ian O'Rourke, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Mytholder, Jared A. Sorensen, greyorm.

5/23/2001 Ian O'Rourke: Narrativists: Competitive Wusses?
[quote] On 2001-05-23 15:06, Blake Hutchins wrote: Ron's speculations regarding Simulationism is like saying Narrativists are afraid of competing or intimidated by immersive gaming. [/quote] I'm making a generalisation here…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian O'Rourke, Ron Edwards, Blake Hutchins, joshua neff, GreatWolf, Gordon C. Landis, Jared A. Sorensen, james_west, Mike Holmes, Dav, Valamir, Poxface, Doc Midnight.

5/24/2001 GreatWolf: Posts in Critical Hit
Scarlet Jester has posted two threads on Gamist and Explorative play in the Critical Hit forum on Gaming Outpost. Personally I found them helpful and thought-provoking, and I was curious…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: GreatWolf, Jared A. Sorensen, Valamir.

5/24/2001 Zak Arntson: Simulate vs. Explore
Here is my take on Simulation vs. Exploration. Simulation holds the weight that "Sim" does as a prefix to video games. SimAnt, for example, handles anthills _NOT_ realistically, but with…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Zak Arntson, Jared A. Sorensen, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, greyorm.

5/25/2001 Daredevil: Thoughts
Heya, What follows is just some thoughts I feel like voicing. They're not anything I feel too strongly about, but merely things that have occurred to me while pondering the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Daredevil, Ron Edwards, Zak Arntson.

5/26/2001 Valamir: Simulation and Subjectivity
Ok. This is a very Sorcerer specific message and so in that sense might more appropriately belong on the Sorcerer forum. But my intent here is not so much to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Supplanter, greyorm, Clinton R. Nixon, Gordon C. Landis, Mike Holmes, Jared A. Sorensen, GreatWolf, Paul Czege, james_west, Logan, Mytholder, joshua neff, Zak Arntson.

5/26/2001 Valamir: Gamism and Mechanics
Supplanter raised some very interesting issues on by simulationist thread, but since they were at best tangental to the thrust of that discussion I figured they could best be addressed…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Supplanter, GreatWolf.

5/31/2001 james_west: FAQ
This forum clearly needs a FAQ. I suggest it contains: (1) A set of definitions (or paradigms, or whatever) of G/N/S (2) An explanation of what it is supposed to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: james_west, Logan, Ron Edwards, greyorm, Blake Hutchins, Valamir, Mike Holmes.

5/31/2001 Ron Edwards: State of the art
Hello everyone. These last few days on the Forge have been a big frustration for me. 1) Flaming, frankly. What's up with that (as my students would say)? That is…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards.

5/31/2001 Dav: Concerning stances
Okay, after much debate and great discussion... well, some other guy beat everyone to the punch for setting out to the unwashed masses. http://ptgptb.humbug.org.au/0017/roles.html A good article, and worth reading.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Dav.

6/1/2001 Gordon C. Landis: An understanding of GNS
OK, I want to run through what I've learned/decided as a result of some of the semi-recent discussion here and on GO, especially as regards Story and GNS, and add…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Supplanter, greyorm, Ron Edwards, Clinton R. Nixon, Logan.

6/5/2001 jburneko: Narativism: I still don't get it.
This is very frustrating for me. I'm not talking about theory here. I'm not asking what Narativism *IS* or anything like that. I'm talking about practical application. I'm talking about…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Dav, Ian O'Rourke, Ron Edwards, Christopher Kubasik, J B Bell, Mike Holmes.

6/7/2001 Gordon C. Landis: G or N or S - caution, do not mix!
(Appologies if this turns out to be something we should just wait for the FAQ on . . .) Over in game design, Ron corrected a possible incorrect understanding of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, jburneko, Dav, Mike Holmes, Logan, Ron Edwards, Justin Bacon, Mytholder.

6/7/2001 greyorm: Using the Threefold in Design
Well, the title more or less says it all. Basically, how do YOU use the Threefold in design? How does it help you design your game? How do you respond…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, Ron Edwards, Jared A. Sorensen, GreatWolf, Mytholder, Mike Holmes, Zak Arntson.

6/10/2001 Torrent: 6 W's in Game Write up
I offer the following as an observation. Feel free to debate and tear it apart if need be. It came to me in the blank time driving back and forth…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Torrent.

6/10/2001 Supplanter: Where Did Dramatism Go?
Awhile ago Ron made clear to me that "Narrativism is not Dramatism" - that is to say, it is distinct from the type of game Kim and Berkman called Dramatism…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Supplanter, Mytholder, jburneko, greyorm, Valamir, Logan, Ron Edwards.

6/14/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: The FAQ is up
There'll be links on the front page and in the forum soon, but until then: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/faq/ Enjoy. And thank Logan and Ron--they've worked hard on this one.
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, Mytholder, Epoch, Blake Hutchins, Logan, Valamir, james_west, greyorm, Ron Edwards, Jared A. Sorensen, Gordon C. Landis, joshua neff, Levekius, GreatWolf, Mike Holmes, Supplanter.

6/17/2001 Mytholder: More FAQ comments (long and bloody)
Ok...It's 2.18am as I begin this, I got four hours sleep last night and have spent half the day playing an l5r tournament and the rest of the time at…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mytholder, Supplanter, Logan, Valamir, greyorm.

6/17/2001 Supplanter: Toward a Sense, If Not a Theory, of Simulationism
Taking off from some p-mail I got this morning... The question is how to characterize the goals of simulationist play and not just its taboos. Simulation is "Let's Pretend" in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Supplanter, Mytholder, greyorm, Epoch, james_west, Justin Bacon, JohnMorrow, Knight.

6/18/2001 Logan: Clarifying GNS for the re-write
I'm rather concerned that some primary aspects of the presentation have been misunderstood by many who have read it. Since I will be rewriting the doc on Jun 21, I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan, Mytholder, jburneko, greyorm, james_west, Epoch, Gordon C. Landis, Supplanter, Paul Czege, Ron Edwards, Blake Hutchins, Mike Holmes, JohnMorrow, Pyske, Clinton R. Nixon, Damocles, Forum Admin.

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