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In GNS Model Discussion

1/27/2005 GB Steve: Is gamism about facing the challenge or wanting the rewards?
Or both or neither? I'm a little confused. For example. 3e seems squarely aimed at ratcheting up challenges and giving just enough rewards so that those challenges stay interesting (i.e.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: GB Steve, Ron Edwards.

1/26/2005 Wormwood: [Deceit] Deception in the Big Model
Caveat: This stems from a post by Lisa, here. For the purposes of these threads the moral implications of deceit should be ignored. This is really the only way to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Wormwood, Ron Edwards.

1/24/2005 Astrivian: Design v. Play: semantic questions about GNS, but mostly S
I have been reading the articles about the GNS model and a few threads and i have a question regarding the design and play of the GNS model. Note: if…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Astrivian, Ron Edwards, Marco, Silmenume, Paganini.

1/21/2005 Silmenume: Celebrating Theme is Nar Equiv of the Gamist Crunch.
On another thread entitled Retroactive Story Ron Edwards make a post that caught my attention. The particular post can be found here. In it he describes a CoC game whereby…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Ron Edwards, timfire, Alan, Marco, C. Edwards, M. J. Young, Caldis, Noon, contracycle, Walt Freitag.

1/15/2005 Montola: Mechanics as symbol-sets (split)
[quote="clehrich"]Okay, I'm going to have to sit down and read this essay carefully. What you describe here, in terms of cultures favoring one type of representation over another, sounds simplistic…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Montola, Ron Edwards, clehrich.

1/11/2005 Marco: Re: Sim has not be discussed as process yet it needs to be s
[quote="contracycle"][quote="Marco"] I'm just sayin' [/quote] Yes Marco, but I think its that nuance that we can now lay to rest. I fully agree that retrospectively the prodct of sim oplay…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, Ron Edwards, contracycle, Valamir, Wormwood, The GM, Bankuei, Jaik, Silmenume, John Kim, clehrich, M. J. Young.

1/10/2005 Silmenume: Sim has not be discussed as process yet it needs to be so -
In the year and a quarter that I have been at the Forge discussing Sim, I have found that there have been two basic, consistent errors in the process of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Vaxalon, Ron Edwards, Marco, contracycle, pete_darby.

1/10/2005 Silmenume: Sim is Bricolage and makes myth - comments?
I boldly propose in this thread that the Sim process is Bricolage and that the product created is Myth. I list the following links that posters should read and be…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, contracycle, Mark Woodhouse, Ron Edwards, Halzebier, Lee Short, Marco, Caldis, lumpley, Mark D. Eddy, clehrich, John Kim.

1/6/2005 Tobias: Connection personality type - type of play.
I'm just looking for referrals here, but has anyone ever done some matching of the personality model that distinguishes three types of Quotient/personality (IQ, EC and CQ), with G, N,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Tobias, apparition13, Alan, M. J. Young, inky, Ron Edwards.

1/5/2005 Artanis: Lumpley Principle, Authority and CA
Hello everyone! I've recently been trying to figure out what System really is. So I started off with the Lumpley Principle, as it defines what System is (according to the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Artanis, bcook1971, Ron Edwards.

1/3/2005 Jaik: "Unconscious" accomodations for TITBB
[quote] I'm interested in this: [quote]Quote: The GM would say that he writes the story and the players would say that they play their characters however they wish. Neither side…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jaik, Marco, Bankuei, Valamir, M. J. Young, John Kim, contracycle, Ron Edwards.

12/31/2004 Black Iris Dancer: On creativity and artificial boundaries
Hi, everyone. This being my first post, I figured some introduction was in order. I think that about sufficies. I found this site while looking for, of all things, legal…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Black Iris Dancer, Brendan, Trevis Martin, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young, xenopulse, clehrich, Marco, apparition13.

12/31/2004 Silmenume: The Impossible Thing Before Breakfast
[quote="From the Provisional Glossary"]Impossible Thing Before Breakfast, the[list]"The GM is the author of the story and the players direct the actions of the protagonists." Widely repeated across many role-playing texts.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Caldis, Jaik, Brendan, John Kim, Ron Edwards, Marco, M. J. Young, Christopher Kubasik, Noon, greyorm, TonyLB, Valamir.

12/15/2004 John Kim: GNS, Metagame, and Meaning
So there has been a lot of talk in Chris Lehrich's thread, On RPGs and Text . However, there have been some pointed comments about GNS there, including…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim.

12/13/2004 John Kim: Social Function and Feedback in Narrativism
So I was struck by a recent comment of Chris Lehrich's in the thread Ramblings on the role of Mechanics in CA's (fishing). So I thought I would…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, clehrich, Ron Edwards.

12/13/2004 Simon Kamber: Narrativism without premise, simulationism without sim?
I've been trying to identify my own CA for a while. I think I've gotten a handle on most of the GNS terminoligy here, and I can place most of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Simon Kamber, ethan_greer, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young, jdagna.

12/8/2004 M. J. Young: Toward a New Creative Agendum Evaluation
Some years back, I devised a GNS/DFK quiz. There was a lot of debate about it, and although it is still available online (mainly, as with Ron's articles, for historic…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, Marco, Jasper, Wormwood, ffilz, beingfrank, clehrich, jdagna.

12/6/2004 epweissengruber: (OT free association) How to Enable Verbal Play in a Game
Recent discussion have reminded me of a note I saw on the Gametheory.net webiste http://www.gametheory.net/News/Items/090.html The mathematics of drama is a welcome development. I look forward to the analysis of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: epweissengruber, Paul Czege, Ron Edwards.

12/6/2004 GB Steve: Still dreaming, or drifting?
I've been reading Ron's Simulationism: The Right to Dream. It's a lot of dense text to absorb, especially when I'm not a regular visitor to these shores. Anyway. I understand…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: GB Steve, TonyLB, Ron Edwards, Noon, John Kim, Marco, Rob Carriere.

12/1/2004 Gerhi Janse van Vuuren: GNS/Creative Agenda related to Bernard Suits' Game Theory
Trying to dive into the deep end here. I am writing up my masters dissertation in drama studies where I look at Bernard Suits theory of make believe games as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gerhi Janse van Vuuren, Alan.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

1/30/2005 Silmenume: An effort to un-gum the Discussion.
Hey Everyone, Since everything is all gummed up right now on in the other thread, I thought I would pose this question from over here. There are several underlying assumptions…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Caldis, Marco, clehrich, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young, ffilz, groundhog.

1/31/2005 Marco: Nar play with Sim Rules
[quote="M. J. Young"]Marco, I want to thank you for sticking with us here through a lot of arguments about the various agenda. I think your contributions have often assisted me…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, Sean, Ron Edwards.

2/1/2005 apparition13: TROS & GNS: NS? NG!
A few months ago I started reading rpg forums and began running into references to TROS both here and elsewhere. There's alot of enthusiasm for the game, so I read…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: apparition13, Ben Lehman, Yokiboy, Matt Wilson, Wolfen, Silmenume, timfire, Marco, Noon, contracycle, Alan, kenjib.

2/1/2005 Green: reconciling different CAs within a group
There has been a lot of talk at the Forge about how the system influences playing. As a result, a lot of the discussion of roleplaying has centered on roleplaying…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Green, Bankuei, Marco, Paul Czege.

2/4/2005 Silmenume: 1/3rd baked idea about Situation and Sim
[blort] If Sim is “about” the creation of meaningful interrelationships of its constituent parts (Character and Setting – Man vs himself in the former and Man vs mankind and Man…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Ron Edwards, clehrich, Valamir, apparition13, Caldis, Mike Holmes, contracycle, Marco, ffilz, Sean, M. J. Young, Doctor Xero, Maarzan.

2/8/2005 lev_lafayette: Three cheers to imaginative gamist players!
In the thread Early roleplaying and the interpretation of scripture, I just made the comparison between simulation priests, narrative wizards and gamist mystics. The basic point was that the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: lev_lafayette, Bankuei, komradebob, S'mon, Ron Edwards.

2/9/2005 Joe Dizzy: [InSpectres] Explain it to me, please
Hello everybody, I've read a few AP threads on InSpectres and the comments made by Ron Edwards and Jared Sorensen have shown me that I *really* don't get this game.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Joe Dizzy, Paganini, Bankuei, Jared A. Sorensen, Ron Edwards.

2/15/2005 apparition13: walking on limbs (split from 1/3 baked)
Ron Edwards wrote: One of the key "tells" of a particular sort of Sim play is to be willing to drop investment in the current imagined situation for a while…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: apparition13, M. J. Young.

2/23/2005 Marco: Address vs. Bricolage
Okay, I've read the latest threads and I have tried to figure out if: (a) they have changed my understanding of GNS Sim vs. GNS Nar (b) they have changed…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, contracycle, Ron Edwards, JMendes, Ian Charvill, M. J. Young, Valamir, Caldis, Silmenume, Landon Darkwood.

2/26/2005 bastion-b: The lowdown on UA, quick and dirty!
Hey dudes! I had a discussion about this with a fellow gamer who is even less GNS-savy than me. That is, he knows about the basic wide aspects of the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: bastion-b, Rob MacDougall, Bankuei, Ron Edwards.

3/1/2005 groundhog: An effort to un-gum the un-gumming
In An effort to un-gum the Discussion, I put forth some thoughts on Sim that Chris Lehrich said he'd have to read carefully and would comment on later. Well, it's…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: groundhog, Bankuei, Rob Carriere, M. J. Young.

3/1/2005 shaheddy: Raymond Chandler and GNS
I don't have a question really, nor am I sure this is the proper place to post this, but here goes. I just wanted to share the following fascinating passage…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: shaheddy, TonyLB, Artanis, Caldis, Thor, timfire, Jasper, Vaxalon, Dev.

3/2/2005 Marco: Meaningful Actions
[quote][b]Caldis wrote[/b] Take a look back at the example I gave earlier. The characters all end up taking on a mission that doesnt really have a lot of meaning to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, Bankuei, Mark Woodhouse, Caldis, contracycle.

3/4/2005 Simon Kamber: Narrativism? Simulationism?
I've been trying to get a grip on the big model for quite a while now. While I think I've gotten most of it, there's still an issue that keeps…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Simon Kamber, JMendes, Bankuei, Victor Gijsbers, John Burdick, Joe Dizzy, Artanis, komradebob, Alan, Marco, apparition13.

3/5/2005 Daredevil: Conflict vs Task Resolution to facilitate Narrativism
In Ron's essay "Narrativism: Story Now", under heading "System - 'it does matter' all over again", Ron talks about task vs. conflict resolution. I submit…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Daredevil, xenopulse, Irmo, WhiteRat, Eero Tuovinen, Landon Darkwood, Ron Edwards, paulkdad, Valamir, timfire, John Kim, MatrixGamer, Caldis.

3/5/2005 Daredevil: Two Questions for Narrativism
There are two questions being posed in this thread. 1) Is an overt, clear statement of Premise before play a prerequisite for Narrativist play? 2) When does a GM's positive…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Daredevil, Bankuei, Simon Kamber, JMendes, timfire.

3/13/2005 Marco: The Nature of Premise
Jay says his game is Simulationist. He may be right about that. What I think though, is that in his description of the question of his duty-vs-friendship issue if there's…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco.

3/13/2005 eGuru: intersection and/or near-convergence of Premise-addressing?
Narr play and Sim play may result in play which is very much alike -- because the Exploration in each can push to similar outcomes, through like but different Creative…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: eGuru, Simon Kamber, JMendes, Ron Edwards, Gaerik.

3/14/2005 John Kim: Lumpley's take on 3D Model
OK, I read a post on Vincent Baker's blog anyway: Simulationism, an Ordeal. He draws a diagram with three slices labeled "Thematic Play", "Competitive Play", and unlabeled. Then…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Marco, Emily Care, timfire, lumpley, Shreyas Sampat.

3/14/2005 Kat Miller: "Let's play house" A Model For Simulationism
I posted this Last week but it became carnage for the hacker: I’ve been trying to better understand Simulationism. I’ve read the Essay but while I understood the words the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Kat Miller, Ron Edwards, Sydney Freedberg, eGuru, pete_darby, Bankuei, M. J. Young, contracycle.

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