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In GNS Model Discussion

5/3/2002 AndyGuest: Boundaries of narrativism ?
Probably not the right topic but I'll fire away anyway. A game is narrativist (or at least narrativist supporting) if it's focus is on the story right ? A lot…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: AndyGuest, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Balbinus.

4/27/2002 wyrdlyng: Confused between N & S
Okay, I'm working on Libra (formerly Fulcrum). I've defined the game's purpose to be to explore character and situation (mostly character). Characters are people chosen to become guardians of reality.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: wyrdlyng, Ron Edwards, Le Joueur, contracycle, lehrbuch, Mike Holmes, Jake Norwood, Paul Czege, Clinton R. Nixon.

4/23/2002 Jack Spencer Jr: recognizing the limitations
Okay. This is partly inspired by Clinton's axioms. It may seem like an anti-GNS spiel, and it probably is, but hear me out. You see, GNS hasn’t been sitting with…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards, Le Joueur, Blake Hutchins.

4/13/2002 Mario: Narrativism and the Campaign
After playing several Narrativist games, with Ron and Dav, I'm am curious if it is possible to play a Narrativist game as a Campaign. By Campaign I mean a game…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mario, Laurel, Ben Morgan, Stivven, Seth L. Blumberg, Zak Arntson, Le Joueur, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards.

4/4/2002 Brian Hose: Objective/super-objective and the role
Hi, Brian here. This comes from the "New guy has a question" thread. I have no idea about how to create links back and forth. If someone wants to tell…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Brian Hose, Laurel, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Danny Cline, contracycle, Wolfen, Christopher Kubasik, Valamir, Gordon C. Landis, lumpley.

4/4/2002 Christopher Kubasik: The New Guy Has a Question
Over in another thread, Brian wrote: ***** Hi guys, Name's Brian and I'm fairly new around these cyber-parts. Your discussion really twigged my interest cos I'm developing a game of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Christopher Kubasik, contracycle, Brian Hose, Mike Holmes, Valamir.

3/30/2002 Walt Freitag: GNS and "Congruency"
GNS and "Congruency" This idea was inspired by all the recent GNS discussion using examples of individual game decisions that are ambiguous in terms of revealing the GNS decision-making preferences…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Walt Freitag, Laurel, Ron Edwards, Valamir, lumpley, Mike Holmes, Le Joueur, Gordon C. Landis, Danny Cline.

3/29/2002 jburneko: Simulationism, Still Causing Problems
Looking over the Dramatism threads it seems to me that Simulationism is still causing problems. And it seems to me that the REASON Simulationism is still causing problems is that…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Blake Hutchins, Zak Arntson, Brian Hose, Jared A. Sorensen, Christopher Kubasik, contracycle, Felderin, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards.

3/28/2002 Valamir: Dramatism, what is it.
[quote="Mytholder"][quote="Valamir"] What you are describing as D, as an observable behavior and as a "fully functional" play style I believe is well explained by GNS as follows. [u]Dramatism: [/u]A game…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Mytholder, contracycle, Le Joueur, Mike Holmes, Paul Czege, Gordon C. Landis, Jared A. Sorensen.

3/28/2002 Laurel: Dramatism & Other Behaviors- New Level
This is breaking off from the model proposition and related threads. It made complete sense to me to look at Dramatism and other behavior-based classifications as a step building upon…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Laurel, Mike Holmes, Valamir, Le Joueur, contracycle.

3/27/2002 Clinton R. Nixon: The Axioms of RPG Design (or, blasting away at the argument)
I find it bizarre, and somewhat ludicrous, that "GNS Model Discussion" is the second-most busy forum at the Forge. We've argued this thing to death, and I think it's high…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, jburneko, gentrification, Mike Holmes, Tim C Koppang, Zak Arntson, Julian Kelsey, Knight, Bankuei.

3/27/2002 Fabrice G.: GNS and game design
(i don't know if this should go here, or in the game design forum) Okay, I've a question for all the GNS-rpg developpers. If the player make a decision to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Fabrice G., Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes.

3/25/2002 Valamir: Motivations in GNS
[quote="Ron Edwards wrote:"] Hey Ralph, I'm a liiiiittle uncomfortable with your phraseology, although I do agree that we're aiming at the same thing. I don't think we are dealing with…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Ron Edwards.

3/22/2002 Butch: again, with the GNS model!
I was just thinking about a way to explain the GNS way and I came with this (if it's been already discussed please... feel free to crucify me!!!): Can the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Butch, joshua neff, Clinton R. Nixon, xiombarg, Valamir, Christopher Kubasik, Laurel, Mike Holmes.

3/21/2002 Butch: a little bit of controversy?!
Hello everybody! Just a little topic to go with the previous one ("a new rpg")!!! I have this rpg that I'm designing (I have the premise, a good idea of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Butch, Valamir, Laurel, xiombarg, Clinton R. Nixon, Garbanzo, Ron Edwards, joshua neff.

3/16/2002 Valamir: GNS incoherency
Mike and I spent a good couple hours discussing this last weekend (after his entire gaming group bailed on us....;-) I thought it would make for an interesting discussion. We…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Ron Edwards.

3/14/2002 Laurel: Does GNS Make Me Happier?
This is a split off of Top Concerns for GNS based on Clinton's response that GNS was influential on Donjon and Donjon's success as a topic of conversation is making…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Laurel, Christopher Kubasik, J B Bell, AndyGuest, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, contracycle, unodiablo, Gordon C. Landis, Seth L. Blumberg, Ian O'Rourke, Logan, deidzoeb, Clinton R. Nixon, Ian Cooper, Bankuei, WhistlinFiend, Valamir, Blake Hutchins.

3/13/2002 Gordon C. Landis: Top valid concerns about GNS
I thought this might be another angle to take at reducing the furor/missunderstandings around GNS - explicitly acknowledging where issues exist and where rational individuals may disagree. I've only got…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Mytholder, Le Joueur, Laurel, Clinton R. Nixon, J B Bell.

3/12/2002 Gordon C. Landis: Side Issues
EDIT: Uh, it'd be fine with me if this got merged in with the response Clinton made when he split-off Steve's post . . . I wanted to respond to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Ron Edwards.

3/12/2002 GB Steve: (Split from "Seven Misconceptions") Cult of GNS
[quote="joshua neff"] [i]Citing a point Ron made by starting a sentence with "Ron said..." is not slavish & cultish devotion, but merely citation. Also, agreeing with something someone (for example,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: GB Steve, Clinton R. Nixon, Steve Dustin, Gordon C. Landis, Mike Holmes, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Jack Spencer Jr, Bankuei, Blake Hutchins, Matt Snyder, Christopher Kubasik, Laurel.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

5/6/2002 Zak Arntson: Pure Sim is not roleplaying
I was just reading Jared's Beeg Horseshoe Theory and thinking about my talks with him about Sim as a myth (correct me if I'm wrong, Jared!). It got me thinking…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Zak Arntson, Valamir, Ron Edwards, J B Bell, Le Joueur, Jack Spencer Jr, Jared A. Sorensen, Laurel, Walt Freitag, Gordon C. Landis, Mike Holmes, xiombarg, contracycle.

5/10/2002 Laurel: Creativity, GNS & Stances
[quote]at "push come to shove" time, it's more important that the decision be appropriate within the environment than it is for the decision to create a good story (or game).…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Laurel, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis.

5/14/2002 xiombarg: Pure Simulationism is Not a Game: Come Out of the Closet
Okay, kids, look at this thread. Back, now? I want to talk about Jared's comments. He may not be interested in it anymore, but I kinda am. I particuarly am…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: xiombarg, Zak Arntson, Mytholder, Mike Holmes, joshua neff, Ron Edwards, Jared A. Sorensen, GreatWolf, Walt Freitag, Gordon C. Landis, AndyGuest, Balbinus, Paganini, Eric J..

5/15/2002 Tim Denee: "Where'd you go, psycho-boy?"
1) Simulationism has the goal of exploration; experiencing moments through a character. 2) A person who lives only for themself and to experience the moment is a sociopath. Therefore 3)…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Tim Denee, Clinton R. Nixon, xiombarg, Gordon C. Landis, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards.

5/23/2002 contracycle: premise rides again
I extracted this from the RPGnet thread, 'cos it caught my eye: Joshua Neff wrote: Basic Lit 101 stuff: if there isn't some sort of moral/ethical/emotional question being addressed,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: contracycle, Joe Murphy (Broin), Ron Edwards, joshua neff, Valamir, Paul Czege, Christopher Kubasik, Le Joueur, Bankuei, Matt.

5/23/2002 Eric J.: Now that I understand this: Gamisnm as a conflict.
I am very sorry. I have nothing against gamisnm, but now that I understand it, I see how my gaming group goes together: Me: Logical simulationist, (with gamist tendencies) flawlessly…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Eric J., Joe Murphy (Broin), Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, Mike Holmes, Christoffer Lernö, Jack Spencer Jr, Eric.Brennan.

5/25/2002 Paganini: Premise?
Since Ron sets great store by the work of Louis Egri, I've been doing some net research into Egri's use of the word "premise" in hopes of obtaining a better…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paganini, Ron Edwards, J B Bell, Le Joueur, Jared A. Sorensen, Paul Czege.

5/26/2002 Buddha Nature: GNS and organization
I have just been accepted as the Games/Roleplaying/Free Systems editor for the Open Directory Project. My question is do you think GNS categories could/would be helpful to people looking for…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Buddha Nature, Bob McNamee, Zak Arntson, Mike Holmes, Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards, RobMuadib, Walt Freitag, Le Joueur, contracycle, Joe Murphy (Broin), Paul Czege, Evan Waters.

5/26/2002 Walt Freitag: One order of Narrativism, hold the Premise please
Thursday evening I read through the RPGNet GNS thread again. Then I followed the link back to the March thread and read that. Then I spent about twelve straight hours…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Walt Freitag, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, Le Joueur, Seth L. Blumberg, contracycle, Ian Cooper, Valamir.

5/27/2002 Le Joueur: Okay, Dramatism Again...
You've brought up three points (I think) that I want to address separately, no offense intended. With respect, you have fallen into the same trap that others have fallen…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Le Joueur, Ron Edwards.

5/28/2002 Christopher Kubasik: Exploration of "Genre"
Hi Everybody, I normally don't jump into the theory threads -- cause a) my academic lingo just doesn't exist and b) I usually have nothing more interesting to add than…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Christopher Kubasik, Le Joueur, Gordon C. Landis, joshua neff, contracycle.

5/29/2002 Evan Waters: Split from "long and brutal"
I might be misreading the model entirely when I say this, but one game that seems "Simulationist" to me that hasn't been described as such (in this thread at least)…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Evan Waters, AndyGuest, Clinton R. Nixon, Ron Edwards, xiombarg.

5/29/2002 contracycle: Split (again) from old discussion
[quote] No, we think that Simulationism is a form of retreat, denial, and defense against the responsibilities of either Gamism or Narrativism. [/quote] I disagree in the most violent possible…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: contracycle, Ron Edwards.

5/29/2002 xiombarg: Third split, and last
[quote="Ron Edwards"]The real issue is whether this is a valid generalization. That's a very important concept: a VALID GENERALIZATION. Such a thing accounts for most of the variation we see…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: xiombarg, Ron Edwards, Clinton R. Nixon, AndyGuest.

5/29/2002 Blake Hutchins: Split from the split-split
Heh. Nothing to do with the old posts. However, Evan brought up a point regarding computer games that I think warrants a comment. He mentioned that MMORPG's like Everquest and…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Blake Hutchins, Walt Freitag, Evan Waters, Valamir, Seth L. Blumberg, xiombarg.

5/29/2002 Gordon C. Landis: Film vs. Novel as N-model
Over in RPG Theory, I read: (This, by the way, works great for the introverted medium of the novel -- you create it alone, you consume it alone, and…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Christopher Kubasik, Ron Edwards.

6/3/2002 Eric J.: Potential hypocrite is now GNS elitism bustin
The title was misleading, but I'm not shure what to make of this. I have viewed others trying to look on gamism and simulationism as detrimental and even one person…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Eric J., Tim Denee, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Bankuei, Blake Hutchins.

6/7/2002 deidzoeb: Who's responsible for Premise - game designer, GM or player?
[This is really a continuation of some ideas from the Indie Game Design thread "No Premise: Dust Devils, The World The Flesh and the Devil." at http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1526 ] Is it…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: deidzoeb, J B Bell, Ron Edwards, Paul Czege, Thededine, amiel.

6/12/2002 Paganini: The Words Of Gratuitous Capitalization
Well, since no one else seems to be doing it, I've put together the foundation of a Forgian dictionary. This is by no means complete. Please, please, PLEASE, post to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paganini, joshua neff, Le Joueur, Mark D. Eddy, Victor Gijsbers, Seth L. Blumberg, rafael.

6/12/2002 quozl: Gamer Preferences Quiz
I just came across this at: http://members.dandy.net/~mjyoung/gametype.html and first of all, I'm wondering do people here think it gives valid answers and secondly, if so, would it be helpful to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: quozl, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Seth L. Blumberg, Laurel, Evan Waters, Eric J., Fabrice G., contracycle, M. J. Young, soundwave.

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