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In GNS Model Discussion

12/18/2003 The GM: Quick ? about a couple of systems
Hey guys, If this isn't the right spot for this, please let me know. I've read a little bit about D&D and its 'alignment' (no pun intended!) w/ GNS in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: The GM, Ron Edwards, Valamir, xiombarg, M. J. Young, Andrew Martin, Mike Holmes, John Kim, greyorm.

12/18/2003 anonymouse: Up-front Gamism.
From M.Holmes's seventh rant, Raven quoth: Something occurs to me about a design element no one else has mentioned, but which you bring up numerous times: the players never know…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: anonymouse, xiombarg, Mike Holmes.

12/17/2003 Mike Holmes: Mike's Standard Rant #7: Designing for Gamism Ain't Easy
This one was touched off by this thread. In that thread, Chris is pointing out how hard it is to make a balanced game. I agree, but worse than that,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mike Holmes, GreatWolf, Jack Spencer Jr, LordSmerf, quozl, Noon, Ben Lehman, Bankuei, Andrew Martin, anonymouse, greyorm, xiombarg, Valamir, Drifter Bob, Harlequin, ADGBoss.

12/17/2003 Calithena: Simulationism
In the thread at http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=9025 , I offered some thoughts on Exalted. These lead me to ask some questions. Ron's distinction there between the excitement generated by thinking about a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Calithena, Alan, Ian Charvill, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young, Silmenume.

12/17/2003 Gordon C. Landis: Looking at eyebeams objections to GNS
A response to Malcolm's thoughts about GNS in this thread didn't seem to fit with the focus of that thread - so I thought I'd start a new one.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, greyorm, eyebeams, contracycle, Calithena, Ron Edwards, Ian Charvill, Mike Holmes.

12/15/2003 greyorm: Narrativism & Illusionism (and other matters)
This discussion is split from Schizo Exalted. If Narrativism isn't about telling/creating a narrative, then wouldn't it be a bit of a misnomer? And you're right, charcters with a weak…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, Noon, eyebeams, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis.

12/14/2003 MachMoth: "What You're Given," or "Gamism on the Fly
When I DM a round of pure-gamist D&D, I've noticed three major types of character development, planned, extemporaneous, and on-the-fly. For example, many of the players sit down, and plan…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: MachMoth, Noon.

12/10/2003 Ian Charvill: Theme and GNS
Over in Why Should the Narrativist Premise be Pre-Set in Sorcerer? Chris suggested creating a daughter thread on the issue of theme and GNS. Here's what I take theme and…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian Charvill, Ben Lehman, Ron Edwards, John Kim, Mike Holmes, Alan, Gordon C. Landis, lumpley, Christopher Kubasik, Matt Snyder, Valamir.

12/7/2003 Jonathan Walton: Creative Agenda only retroactive?
Hey guys, Need a clarification for this paper on aesthetic theory in roleplaying. Creative Agenda is something that can only be retrospectively said to exist, correct? Isn't that part of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jonathan Walton, Mark Johnson, Silmenume, Alan, Christopher Kubasik, Ron Edwards, John Kim, M. J. Young, Andrew Martin, Eero Tuovinen.

12/6/2003 Michael S. Miller: Where's the water?
So I’m pushing the snowblower and thinking about RPGs. It occurs to me that there are two distinct parts of the gaming experience: the shared imaginative space and the support…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Michael S. Miller, Jack Spencer Jr, John Kim.

12/6/2003 kwill: LARPing: in the boxes?
how do others see LARPing interacting with the model? just another medium for exploration, or a totally different paradigm all together? my initial take is that the differences operate at…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: kwill, Eero Tuovinen, kalyptein, Ron Edwards, Tomas HVM, hanschristianandersen, Erling Rognli, M. J. Young, xiombarg, Matt.

12/6/2003 kwill: quick clarification: loving each CA
in the discussion I've been following about the box model, I want to verify where we're at in terms of "preference" and support for different CAs as I recall the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: kwill, John Kim, Ron Edwards, Emily Care.

12/6/2003 M. J. Young: Toward a Name for the Theory
Ron recently pointed out that it's a mistake to refer to his roleplaying model as "GNS", which is an accident of history and at this point a rather limited (if…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Tim C Koppang, Ron Edwards, Jonathan Walton, Mark Johnson, xiombarg.

12/3/2003 Tomas HVM: The essential conflict
I've enjoyed reading the start of "Silmenume"s thread on simulationism immensely. Thanks to "Silmenume" for his writings. One of his points promped me to comment, and I have chosen to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Tomas HVM, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag.

11/30/2003 greyorm: WotC Market Research & GNS
Over at ENWorld, there was an announcement about the following survey data complied by WotC in 1999: Breakdown of RPG Players. Here's my questions: how accurate do you believe the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, xiombarg, Walt Freitag, jdagna, Emily Care, contracycle, beingfrank.

11/29/2003 Silmenume: Creative Agenda and behavioral disconnects
I think one of the reasons the people have a hard time grappling with the idea of a creative agenda is that CA is the expression of desire unexamined. What…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Harlequin, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, b_bankhead, Mike Holmes, Tim C Koppang.

11/28/2003 Ian Charvill: Falsifying GNS
In a couple of threads recently people have raised the idea that GNS is not falsifiable so therefore is questionable as a theory. It occurs to me that GNS is…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian Charvill, Valamir, Ron Edwards, pete_darby, jdagna, Christopher Kubasik, marcus, beingfrank, MachMoth.

11/27/2003 John Kim: Open Play for the Soul
[quote="Paganini"] Narrativism is about setting up a specific kind of choice for the characters to face. Call them urgent choices. For one reason or another, an urgent choice can't just…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Ian Charvill, Christopher Kubasik, greyorm, Valamir, Mike Holmes.

11/24/2003 marcus: Why is the Prioritization the Thing?
Hello there- first time poster to this forum. When first reading Ron's various essays on GNS, I formed the view that Ron was saying that a good RPG should contain…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: marcus, Calithena, pete_darby, M. J. Young, Valamir, Ian Charvill, jdagna, Mike Holmes, greyorm, Christopher Kubasik, Ron Edwards.

11/20/2003 Paganini: Narrativism for the Soul
So, all these recent threads have really been great, but they're very deep, and awfully technical. Last night I was thinking about all this, and a new way of communicating…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paganini, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Ian Charvill, John Burdick, Calithena, ejh, Christopher Kubasik, Walt Freitag, M. J. Young.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

12/18/2003 quozl: Good Gamist Deisgn
First, read Mike's rant. Now, please give good examples on how RPGs have implemented strategy & tactics in play. Please note that I only wish to examine RPG rules, not…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: quozl, Ben Lehman, LordSmerf, Thierry Michel, greyorm, Mike Holmes, Caldis, GreatWolf, xiombarg, epweissengruber.

12/21/2003 John Kim: Simulationist Storytelling Systems?
So something seems to be missing for me in the picture of how games are classified GNS-wise. Traditional cause-to-effect mechanics tend to be called simulationist, but I think that simulationist…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Valamir, Mike Holmes, Ian Charvill, xiombarg, Ron Edwards.

12/21/2003 Silmenume: Shared Imagined Space and Imagination - Split
I broke this off from the Why we (I?) roleplay - especially in the Simulationist mode to deal with the topic of the Shared Imagined Space that had arisen. I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Jack Spencer Jr, John Kim, lumpley, Alan, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young.

12/23/2003 matthijs: GNS and game success (split)
I'm not sure if this point has been made elsewhere, but it seems to me that one of the reasons that early D&D and Vampire were so successful, is their…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: matthijs, Ron Edwards, The GM, xiombarg, Christopher Kubasik, Marhault.

12/26/2003 John Kim: Simulationism Revisited
OK, After more-or-less fence-sitting for a while, I am starting to form my own opinions on GNS as a whole. I will hold off on comments on Narrativism for Ron's…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, M. J. Young, Caynreth, Silmenume, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, lumpley, Paul Czege, cruciel, Ian Charvill.

12/29/2003 Alan: Systems of group meaning negotiation.
I started this new thread to discuss this idea. For background, look at the 6th through 13 message in Shared Imagined Space and Imagination - Split …
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Alan, Ron Edwards, Matt Wilson, Ian Charvill, John Kim.

12/29/2003 Palaskar: I still don't quite get it.
Ok, I've read this thing twice, but I'm still unclear on a couple points. Could someone: --Explain what the difference between "System" at the Exploration level and "System" at the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Palaskar, Ron Edwards.

12/30/2003 Silmenume: Goals expressed and emergent Goals.
Wow! Things sure got interesting in a New York second. All these threads and posts on Meaning, which has been something that has been near and dear to my heart…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, The GM, Marhault, M. J. Young, Tiki Joe.

1/1/2004 Noon: Musings on the 'Gamism: Step on up' essay
This is just a post with some meandering thoughts on the 'Gamism: Step on up'. Just exploring some tangents to it, to round out the whole affair for me. So…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Noon, Ron Edwards, Silmenume.

1/7/2004 Kilor Di: GNS?
I'm kind of new to these forum boards (having only signed on some time last month). That being said, what is a GNS?
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Kilor Di, quozl, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards.

1/7/2004 Ian Charvill: The Dream vs Story Now!
Over in Writing Style, Detail, and Simulationism Ian, can you come up with a case where pursuing Story Now might damage the Dream? I can't. Story Now depends on…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian Charvill, lumpley, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, cruciel, John Kim, Jack Spencer Jr, Gordon C. Landis, Valamir.

1/8/2004 Calithena: Device for Gamism
This is just an aside to Mike's Standard Rant #7. I noticed Drifter Bob there talking about a hypothetical spell 'Goodnight', which is basically a device allowing the party to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Calithena, Mike Holmes, contracycle, Umberhulk, M. J. Young.

1/10/2004 John Kim: What is the Dream?
OK, so Ian and Ron have suggested a separate thread to discuss the following point which I made in The Dream vs Story Now!: As far as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Ron Edwards, cruciel, Ian Charvill, Mark Johnson, Jack Spencer Jr, greyorm, pete_darby, M. J. Young, Christopher Kubasik, Gordon C. Landis, contracycle, Valamir, Blankshield, Silmenume.

1/10/2004 sirogit: Simulationism and Party-dynamics.
I'm formulating the opinion that simulationism has very little appeal in a situation where the characters are not expiereincing each other(Such as if they're apart.) alot of the time where…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: sirogit, Christopher Kubasik, pete_darby, jdagna, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag.

1/12/2004 Calithena: RPG/CCG hybrid scam; Monetary Awards in RPGs more generally
In another thread, Mike Holmes wrote: "The one thing that I always bring up regarding that we have this scorekeeping device…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Calithena, MachMoth, Andrew Martin, contracycle, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, xiombarg, Drifter Bob, damyano.

1/16/2004 Jack Spencer Jr: Freeform gamism?
I think I have a handle on what freeform Narrativism and Simulationism would look like, but for some reason freeform Gamism esacpes me. Anyone have any thoughts on what the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Wolfen, M. J. Young, C. Edwards, Ron Edwards, John Kim, pete_darby, Calithena, xiombarg, sirogit.

1/19/2004 Ron Edwards: Narrativism essay update
Hello, The essay has been finished for about a week now. I'm currently filling in the details on the proto-game I'm including with it, tentatively titled Cold Heart, or Out…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, ethan_greer, sirogit, Gordon C. Landis, hix.

1/22/2004 Roman: Upon reading Chapter 2 of "GNS and Other Matters ...&qu
Your limerick, sir. There once was a man from Schenectady Who wanted to have a vasectomy. The doc got on a roll Mistook a part for the whole And perpetrated…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Roman, Ron Edwards.

1/24/2004 Silmenume: Thoughts on why details are so important to Sim players
The need for detail in a Sim game is equivalent to someone constantly touching and touching some lost treasure that was lost and found. The act of “touching”, represented in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Ron Edwards, John Kim, MachMoth, M. J. Young, Gordon C. Landis, contracycle, Walt Freitag.

1/24/2004 Silmenume: Why G and N modes are easier for new players to grasp onto
In an earlier thread What is the Dream? the idea was raised that players tend to fall into Gamist or Narrativist play more “easily” than Simulationist play. I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Ron Edwards, Umberhulk, Paganini, C. Edwards.

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