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In GNS Model Discussion

1/1/2004 Noon: Musings on the 'Gamism: Step on up' essay
This is just a post with some meandering thoughts on the 'Gamism: Step on up'. Just exploring some tangents to it, to round out the whole affair for me. So…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Noon, Ron Edwards, Silmenume.

12/30/2003 Silmenume: Goals expressed and emergent Goals.
Wow! Things sure got interesting in a New York second. All these threads and posts on Meaning, which has been something that has been near and dear to my heart…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, The GM, Marhault, M. J. Young, Tiki Joe.

12/29/2003 Palaskar: I still don't quite get it.
Ok, I've read this thing twice, but I'm still unclear on a couple points. Could someone: --Explain what the difference between "System" at the Exploration level and "System" at the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Palaskar, Ron Edwards.

12/29/2003 Alan: Systems of group meaning negotiation.
I started this new thread to discuss this idea. For background, look at the 6th through 13 message in Shared Imagined Space and Imagination - Split …
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Alan, Ron Edwards, Matt Wilson, Ian Charvill, John Kim.

12/26/2003 John Kim: Simulationism Revisited
OK, After more-or-less fence-sitting for a while, I am starting to form my own opinions on GNS as a whole. I will hold off on comments on Narrativism for Ron's…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, M. J. Young, Caynreth, Silmenume, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, lumpley, Paul Czege, cruciel, Ian Charvill.

12/23/2003 matthijs: GNS and game success (split)
I'm not sure if this point has been made elsewhere, but it seems to me that one of the reasons that early D&D and Vampire were so successful, is their…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: matthijs, Ron Edwards, The GM, xiombarg, Christopher Kubasik, Marhault.

12/21/2003 Silmenume: Shared Imagined Space and Imagination - Split
I broke this off from the Why we (I?) roleplay - especially in the Simulationist mode to deal with the topic of the Shared Imagined Space that had arisen. I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Jack Spencer Jr, John Kim, lumpley, Alan, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young.

12/21/2003 John Kim: Simulationist Storytelling Systems?
So something seems to be missing for me in the picture of how games are classified GNS-wise. Traditional cause-to-effect mechanics tend to be called simulationist, but I think that simulationist…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Valamir, Mike Holmes, Ian Charvill, xiombarg, Ron Edwards.

12/18/2003 quozl: Good Gamist Deisgn
First, read Mike's rant. Now, please give good examples on how RPGs have implemented strategy & tactics in play. Please note that I only wish to examine RPG rules, not…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: quozl, Ben Lehman, LordSmerf, Thierry Michel, greyorm, Mike Holmes, Caldis, GreatWolf, xiombarg, epweissengruber.

12/18/2003 Ron Edwards: [Narrativism essay] Concept & excerpt
Hello, I wonder how many people are going to find this surprising. It's a teeny excerpt from my upcoming Narrativism essay. ************ Let's say that the following transcript arose from…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, xiombarg, jdagna, John Kim, kalyptein, Halzebier, John Burdick, greyorm, Gordon C. Landis, ethan_greer, Walt Freitag, Jack Spencer Jr, Silmenume, qxjit, hix, Ian Charvill, jburneko, Valamir, Bankuei, Emily Care, Mike Holmes, Matt Snyder, Lxndr, Troy_Costisick, pete_darby.

12/18/2003 The GM: Quick ? about a couple of systems
Hey guys, If this isn't the right spot for this, please let me know. I've read a little bit about D&D and its 'alignment' (no pun intended!) w/ GNS in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: The GM, Ron Edwards, Valamir, xiombarg, M. J. Young, Andrew Martin, Mike Holmes, John Kim, greyorm.

12/18/2003 anonymouse: Up-front Gamism.
From M.Holmes's seventh rant, Raven quoth: Something occurs to me about a design element no one else has mentioned, but which you bring up numerous times: the players never know…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: anonymouse, xiombarg, Mike Holmes.

12/17/2003 Mike Holmes: Mike's Standard Rant #7: Designing for Gamism Ain't Easy
This one was touched off by this thread. In that thread, Chris is pointing out how hard it is to make a balanced game. I agree, but worse than that,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mike Holmes, GreatWolf, Jack Spencer Jr, LordSmerf, quozl, Noon, Ben Lehman, Bankuei, Andrew Martin, anonymouse, greyorm, xiombarg, Valamir, Drifter Bob, Harlequin, ADGBoss.

12/17/2003 Calithena: Simulationism
In the thread at http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=9025 , I offered some thoughts on Exalted. These lead me to ask some questions. Ron's distinction there between the excitement generated by thinking about a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Calithena, Alan, Ian Charvill, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young, Silmenume.

12/17/2003 Gordon C. Landis: Looking at eyebeams objections to GNS
A response to Malcolm's thoughts about GNS in this thread didn't seem to fit with the focus of that thread - so I thought I'd start a new one.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, greyorm, eyebeams, contracycle, Calithena, Ron Edwards, Ian Charvill, Mike Holmes.

12/15/2003 greyorm: Narrativism & Illusionism (and other matters)
This discussion is split from Schizo Exalted. If Narrativism isn't about telling/creating a narrative, then wouldn't it be a bit of a misnomer? And you're right, charcters with a weak…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, Noon, eyebeams, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis.

12/14/2003 MachMoth: "What You're Given," or "Gamism on the Fly
When I DM a round of pure-gamist D&D, I've noticed three major types of character development, planned, extemporaneous, and on-the-fly. For example, many of the players sit down, and plan…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: MachMoth, Noon.

12/10/2003 Ian Charvill: Theme and GNS
Over in Why Should the Narrativist Premise be Pre-Set in Sorcerer? Chris suggested creating a daughter thread on the issue of theme and GNS. Here's what I take theme and…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian Charvill, Ben Lehman, Ron Edwards, John Kim, Mike Holmes, Alan, Gordon C. Landis, lumpley, Christopher Kubasik, Matt Snyder, Valamir.

12/7/2003 Jonathan Walton: Creative Agenda only retroactive?
Hey guys, Need a clarification for this paper on aesthetic theory in roleplaying. Creative Agenda is something that can only be retrospectively said to exist, correct? Isn't that part of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jonathan Walton, Mark Johnson, Silmenume, Alan, Christopher Kubasik, Ron Edwards, John Kim, M. J. Young, Andrew Martin, Eero Tuovinen.

12/6/2003 Michael S. Miller: Where's the water?
So I’m pushing the snowblower and thinking about RPGs. It occurs to me that there are two distinct parts of the gaming experience: the shared imaginative space and the support…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Michael S. Miller, Jack Spencer Jr, John Kim.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

1/7/2004 Ian Charvill: The Dream vs Story Now!
Over in Writing Style, Detail, and Simulationism Ian, can you come up with a case where pursuing Story Now might damage the Dream? I can't. Story Now depends on…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian Charvill, lumpley, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, cruciel, John Kim, Jack Spencer Jr, Gordon C. Landis, Valamir.

1/8/2004 Calithena: Device for Gamism
This is just an aside to Mike's Standard Rant #7. I noticed Drifter Bob there talking about a hypothetical spell 'Goodnight', which is basically a device allowing the party to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Calithena, Mike Holmes, contracycle, Umberhulk, M. J. Young.

1/10/2004 John Kim: What is the Dream?
OK, so Ian and Ron have suggested a separate thread to discuss the following point which I made in The Dream vs Story Now!: As far as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Ron Edwards, cruciel, Ian Charvill, Mark Johnson, Jack Spencer Jr, greyorm, pete_darby, M. J. Young, Christopher Kubasik, Gordon C. Landis, contracycle, Valamir, Blankshield, Silmenume.

1/10/2004 sirogit: Simulationism and Party-dynamics.
I'm formulating the opinion that simulationism has very little appeal in a situation where the characters are not expiereincing each other(Such as if they're apart.) alot of the time where…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: sirogit, Christopher Kubasik, pete_darby, jdagna, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag.

1/12/2004 Calithena: RPG/CCG hybrid scam; Monetary Awards in RPGs more generally
In another thread, Mike Holmes wrote: "The one thing that I always bring up regarding that we have this scorekeeping device…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Calithena, MachMoth, Andrew Martin, contracycle, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, xiombarg, Drifter Bob, damyano.

1/16/2004 Jack Spencer Jr: Freeform gamism?
I think I have a handle on what freeform Narrativism and Simulationism would look like, but for some reason freeform Gamism esacpes me. Anyone have any thoughts on what the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Wolfen, M. J. Young, C. Edwards, Ron Edwards, John Kim, pete_darby, Calithena, xiombarg, sirogit.

1/19/2004 Ron Edwards: Narrativism essay update
Hello, The essay has been finished for about a week now. I'm currently filling in the details on the proto-game I'm including with it, tentatively titled Cold Heart, or Out…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, ethan_greer, sirogit, Gordon C. Landis, hix.

1/22/2004 Roman: Upon reading Chapter 2 of "GNS and Other Matters ...&qu
Your limerick, sir. There once was a man from Schenectady Who wanted to have a vasectomy. The doc got on a roll Mistook a part for the whole And perpetrated…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Roman, Ron Edwards.

1/24/2004 Silmenume: Thoughts on why details are so important to Sim players
The need for detail in a Sim game is equivalent to someone constantly touching and touching some lost treasure that was lost and found. The act of “touching”, represented in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Ron Edwards, John Kim, MachMoth, M. J. Young, Gordon C. Landis, contracycle, Walt Freitag.

1/24/2004 Silmenume: Why G and N modes are easier for new players to grasp onto
In an earlier thread What is the Dream? the idea was raised that players tend to fall into Gamist or Narrativist play more “easily” than Simulationist play. I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Ron Edwards, Umberhulk, Paganini, C. Edwards.

1/25/2004 John Kim: Rough Draft Essay on Threefold Simulationism
OK, So I have this essay now on Threefold Simulationism (which is IMO distinct from GNS Simulationism). So I wrote this essay delving into the topic. At first I thought…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Umberhulk, Ron Edwards, cruciel, M. J. Young, Mike Holmes, ADGBoss, clehrich, Silmenume.

1/26/2004 Eric J.: Video Games and GNS, the Great Conflict
Alright. It's been months since I've even visited here, but I'd have everyone know that reformats excepted, the Forge has yet to leave my favorites list. What does it matter?…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Eric J., talysman, contracycle, Alan, Ron Edwards, John Kim, M. J. Young, Umberhulk.

1/28/2004 sirogit: Importance of PC-defined stories in narrativism?
What's the general opinion on how important for a narrtivist game for the story to be based on actions of the PCs vs. on actions of the NPCS? Personally, I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: sirogit, Ron Edwards.

1/29/2004 Jack Spencer Jr: Dream (split) gamer taste?
From this threadThe first time I read Perelandra, back in college, I was starting to get bored with the long descriptions of the oceans, the floating islands, the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, M. J. Young, Marhault, Ron Edwards.

1/29/2004 Christopher Kubasik: "Getting It": Threat or Menace!
Hi all, I've been meaning to start this thread for about two weeks now, every since the latest round of RPG.net confusion-mania about GNS. However, I had no idea how…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Christopher Kubasik, Bankuei, abzu, clehrich, pete_darby, Paganini, Shreyas Sampat, C. Edwards, John Kim, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, bcook1971, RaconteurX.

1/30/2004 Ben Lehman: The Roots of Sim (Response to Nar Essay)
Note that this is, in no way, a response to the entireity of the remarkably in-depth essay that Ron just posted, which will probably take months to digest. Rather, it…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ben Lehman, Ron Edwards, lumpley, John Kim, xiombarg, Gordon C. Landis, Bankuei, Uzzah, Calithena, talysman, james_west, Caldis, clehrich, Sean, epweissengruber, Silmenume, M. J. Young, cruciel, charles ferguson.

1/30/2004 Silmenume: The Narrativist Essay is Published!!!
Head off to the Articles link and read, read, read!
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Mark Johnson, Ian Charvill, Ron Edwards.

1/30/2004 ADGBoss: Capt. Kirk and Col O'Neil vs the GNS from PX716435
In light of Ron's Narrativism essay and Christopher Kubasik's thread here I began to think about the people who don't think so hard about gaming. At least not as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: ADGBoss, xiombarg, Paganini, Clinton R. Nixon, Silmenume, John Kim, james_west, M. J. Young.

1/31/2004 james_west: ... simulationism is less common than I thought.
I've been reading Ron's set of recent essays, and I had a minor epiphany. One of my pet peeves with a lot of different games I've been in over the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: james_west, Valamir, Ron Edwards, coxcomb.

1/31/2004 james_west: Gamism's hard question
Going back a few pages, I didn't see another thread on this; sorry if I missed it. Here's my answer: I have always been a competitive person, but simultaneously, I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: james_west, Ron Edwards.

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