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In GNS Model Discussion

2/1/2004 clehrich: Confusion about Nar and Story
[quote="Ron, in the Nar essay,"]There cannot be any "the story" during Narrativist play, because to have such a thing (fixed plot [u][b]or pre-agreed theme[/u][/b]) is to remove the whole point:…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: clehrich, james_west, Ron Edwards, Paganini, Blankshield, pete_darby.

2/1/2004 Herr Doktor: Simulationists and Gamists enjoying the same session?
After some discussion our role-playing group came to the realization that according to our own experiences our prefered GNS modes do not match up. Our group consists of six persons,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Herr Doktor, jdagna, Ron Edwards.

1/31/2004 Alan: Narrativist Hard Questions
In his essay Narrativism: Story Now, Ron proposes the “hard” questions. Here are my responses: Are you Simulationist-by-habit? … if you'd rather be addressing Premise,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Alan, james_west, Jack Spencer Jr, Christopher Kubasik, M. J. Young, pete_darby, Ron Edwards.

1/31/2004 Ian Charvill: Pastiche in Roleplaying
Ron's clarifications over in The Roots of Sim (Response to Nar Essay) are very important if pastiche is to become part of The Forge lexicon. 1. Non-Narrativist play which produces…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian Charvill, Ron Edwards, sirogit, Scourge108, John Kim, clehrich, Jack Spencer Jr, Nick Pagnucco, Jeff Klein.

1/31/2004 Silmenume: A huge difficulty in Sim
I think one of the great difficulties of Sim, especially where character (persona) exploration is involved is in the difficult mastery of personas. I know my phrasing is wonky, but…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Ian Charvill, Ron Edwards, contracycle.

1/31/2004 james_west: Gamism's hard question
Going back a few pages, I didn't see another thread on this; sorry if I missed it. Here's my answer: I have always been a competitive person, but simultaneously, I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: james_west, Ron Edwards.

1/31/2004 james_west: ... simulationism is less common than I thought.
I've been reading Ron's set of recent essays, and I had a minor epiphany. One of my pet peeves with a lot of different games I've been in over the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: james_west, Valamir, Ron Edwards, coxcomb.

1/30/2004 ADGBoss: Capt. Kirk and Col O'Neil vs the GNS from PX716435
In light of Ron's Narrativism essay and Christopher Kubasik's thread here I began to think about the people who don't think so hard about gaming. At least not as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: ADGBoss, xiombarg, Paganini, Clinton R. Nixon, Silmenume, John Kim, james_west, M. J. Young.

1/30/2004 Silmenume: The Narrativist Essay is Published!!!
Head off to the Articles link and read, read, read!
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Mark Johnson, Ian Charvill, Ron Edwards.

1/30/2004 Ben Lehman: The Roots of Sim (Response to Nar Essay)
Note that this is, in no way, a response to the entireity of the remarkably in-depth essay that Ron just posted, which will probably take months to digest. Rather, it…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ben Lehman, Ron Edwards, lumpley, John Kim, xiombarg, Gordon C. Landis, Bankuei, Uzzah, Calithena, talysman, james_west, Caldis, clehrich, Sean, epweissengruber, Silmenume, M. J. Young, cruciel, charles ferguson.

1/29/2004 Christopher Kubasik: "Getting It": Threat or Menace!
Hi all, I've been meaning to start this thread for about two weeks now, every since the latest round of RPG.net confusion-mania about GNS. However, I had no idea how…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Christopher Kubasik, Bankuei, abzu, clehrich, pete_darby, Paganini, Shreyas Sampat, C. Edwards, John Kim, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, bcook1971, RaconteurX.

1/29/2004 Jack Spencer Jr: Dream (split) gamer taste?
From this threadThe first time I read Perelandra, back in college, I was starting to get bored with the long descriptions of the oceans, the floating islands, the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, M. J. Young, Marhault, Ron Edwards.

1/28/2004 sirogit: Importance of PC-defined stories in narrativism?
What's the general opinion on how important for a narrtivist game for the story to be based on actions of the PCs vs. on actions of the NPCS? Personally, I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: sirogit, Ron Edwards.

1/26/2004 Eric J.: Video Games and GNS, the Great Conflict
Alright. It's been months since I've even visited here, but I'd have everyone know that reformats excepted, the Forge has yet to leave my favorites list. What does it matter?…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Eric J., talysman, contracycle, Alan, Ron Edwards, John Kim, M. J. Young, Umberhulk.

1/25/2004 John Kim: Rough Draft Essay on Threefold Simulationism
OK, So I have this essay now on Threefold Simulationism (which is IMO distinct from GNS Simulationism). So I wrote this essay delving into the topic. At first I thought…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Umberhulk, Ron Edwards, cruciel, M. J. Young, Mike Holmes, ADGBoss, clehrich, Silmenume.

1/24/2004 Silmenume: Why G and N modes are easier for new players to grasp onto
In an earlier thread What is the Dream? the idea was raised that players tend to fall into Gamist or Narrativist play more “easily” than Simulationist play. I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Ron Edwards, Umberhulk, Paganini, C. Edwards.

1/24/2004 Silmenume: Thoughts on why details are so important to Sim players
The need for detail in a Sim game is equivalent to someone constantly touching and touching some lost treasure that was lost and found. The act of “touching”, represented in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Ron Edwards, John Kim, MachMoth, M. J. Young, Gordon C. Landis, contracycle, Walt Freitag.

1/22/2004 Roman: Upon reading Chapter 2 of "GNS and Other Matters ...&qu
Your limerick, sir. There once was a man from Schenectady Who wanted to have a vasectomy. The doc got on a roll Mistook a part for the whole And perpetrated…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Roman, Ron Edwards.

1/19/2004 Ron Edwards: Narrativism essay update
Hello, The essay has been finished for about a week now. I'm currently filling in the details on the proto-game I'm including with it, tentatively titled Cold Heart, or Out…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, ethan_greer, sirogit, Gordon C. Landis, hix.

1/16/2004 Jack Spencer Jr: Freeform gamism?
I think I have a handle on what freeform Narrativism and Simulationism would look like, but for some reason freeform Gamism esacpes me. Anyone have any thoughts on what the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Wolfen, M. J. Young, C. Edwards, Ron Edwards, John Kim, pete_darby, Calithena, xiombarg, sirogit.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

2/4/2004 Mike Holmes: The roots of Sim II
I can't believe that I'm about to do this at this point. If Gamism and Narrativism are the modes that are most accessible (am I using the correct terminology now…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag, Jack Spencer Jr, Bankuei, james_west, Gordon C. Landis, jdagna, John Kim, clehrich, cruciel, talysman, Caldis, Silmenume, Sean, M. J. Young, Asrogoth.

2/8/2004 sirogit: Long-running narrativist games?
Has anyone here ever played a narrativist game that went on for more than one year? Are their inherent limitations on running length of a Narrativist game that still addresses…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: sirogit, Ron Edwards, james_west, inthisstyle, greyorm, brainwipe, Mike Holmes, newsalor.

2/10/2004 M. J. Young: Understanding: the "it" of Simulationism
I was very unhappy with Mike Holmes' conclusions in The Roots of Sim II (in his post of February 9th, if it has continued), so I'm starting a new…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Rob Carriere, Mike Holmes, Jack Spencer Jr, Silmenume, clehrich, Walt Freitag, C. Edwards, cruciel, Emily Care, Sean, Caldis, Ron Edwards.

2/10/2004 Mike Holmes: The Omni-Player
It occured to me, quite a while back, that if one understood what one was doing, that one could, in play, decide to make decisions that were congruent more often.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mike Holmes, Clinton R. Nixon, C. Edwards, Emily Care, Valamir, Paganini, Marhault, xiombarg, Mark D. Eddy, charles ferguson, Caldis.

2/11/2004 Scourge108: Beeg Horseshoe
I apologize for my ignorance, but I keep hearing reference to the "Beeg Horseshoe Theory" on some of these threads, but I haven't found what that theory actually posits. Could…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Scourge108, ethan_greer, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes.

2/12/2004 John Kim: What is traditional play really?
So it seems to me that a lot of the current definition discussions are getting lost in somewhat abstract consideration of the definitions. GNS Simulationism is defined abstractly as "exploration…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, Emily Care, cruciel, coxcomb, Valamir.

2/12/2004 Emily Care: creative agenda game
Hey Folks, This is quick and fun. In 25 words or less, describe your creative agenda from an actual game or campaign you have played. What do I mean by…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Emily Care, cruciel, Paganini, Alan, Mark D. Eddy, pete_darby, Mike Holmes, anonymouse.

2/12/2004 bcook1971: Response to the Supporting Essays
I just finished reading all three GNS support essays and wanted to air some of my reactions. That's why it's often referred to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: bcook1971, Sean, pete_darby, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young.

2/12/2004 anonymouse: Narrative modules
Split from http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=9751 . . . if playing this particular game worked so wonderfully to free the participants into wildly…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: anonymouse, ScottM, Mike Holmes, Peter Nordstrand, Ron Edwards, Blankshield, M. J. Young, clehrich, Halzebier, John Kim, Sean, Christopher Kubasik, Andrew Norris.

2/12/2004 Doctor Xero: context and G/N/S in game design
coxcomb wrote Thu Feb 05, 2004 7:43 pm: ] Context (the way that I have defined it) has to do with character. It is something that ] helps you play…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Doctor Xero, lumpley, james_west, Ron Edwards.

2/13/2004 Shreyas Sampat: Omni-Play and Incoherence
Split from The Omni-Player. Caldis raised a question about the implications Omni-Play has on incoherence that I wanted to reply to. If the omni-player is possible and games that appeal…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Shreyas Sampat, Paganini, Caldis, Ron Edwards, Marhault, charles ferguson, M. J. Young, Mike Holmes.

2/13/2004 Mark D. Eddy: A problem with the Intro to the GNS Essay
[quote="Ron"]My straightforward observation of the activity of role-playing is that many participants do not enjoy it very much. Most role-players I encounter are tired, bitter, and frustrated.[/quote] Interestingly, most of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mark D. Eddy, Valamir, Scourge108, Rich Forest, Ron Edwards, Silmenume.

2/13/2004 Paganini: Not getting "it"
[quote="In another thread, Ron"]Regarding hybrid play, I think that I see the term a little differently from the way Mike does. I think he's talking about the "little g, little…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paganini, Ron Edwards, clehrich, Bankuei, Rob Carriere.

2/13/2004 anonymouse: Common GNS sticking points.
So, even with people who've picked up post counts over 100 and have been around for a few months, I sometimes notice these things. Incredibly basic fundamental parts of the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: anonymouse, Bankuei, Walt Freitag, Mike Holmes.

2/13/2004 Walt Freitag: Zilchplay [split from "Understanding: the "it"
I'm splitting my response to several posts about so-called "zilchplay" in the thread Understanding: the "it" of Simulationism to a new thread, since the topic is a bit of a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Walt Freitag, cruciel, ScottM, Silmenume, clehrich, Ron Edwards.

2/14/2004 Caldis: Narrativism IS about story!!
In this thread http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=9773 anonymouse stated the following Wanting to "tell a story" does not necessarily have anything to do with Narrativist decisions. While this statement it true when…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Caldis, james_west, Ian Charvill, Lxndr, greyorm, cruciel, Paganini, Ron Edwards.

2/15/2004 Jack Spencer Jr: Narrativism is Exploration of Character
Narrativism is exploration of character. Whoa, Nelly! Let me explain. In old episode of the Simpsons: Lisa is depressed than usual about her looks. After failing to cheer her up,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, james_west, Sean, Bankuei, Christopher Kubasik, John Kim, cruciel, M. J. Young, lumpley, Caldis, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Ian Charvill.

2/16/2004 Sean: The Social Mode
These discussions on Sim and Zilchplay have had a weird effect on my thinking. The basic question that GNS puts to you, or put to me anyway, is: what do…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Sean, timfire, Ron Edwards, clehrich, pete_darby, M. J. Young, Silmenume, contracycle, Rob Carriere, Dev.

2/16/2004 Mike Holmes: Mike's Standard Rant #7: You Can't Sneak Up on Mode
As usual, I'm posting this as shorthand for a post that I make all too often. It's not intended to generate feedback, but I'd be glad to debate it, or…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mike Holmes, Scripty, John Kim, Ron Edwards, james_west, montag, Andrew Norris, xiombarg, M. J. Young, Rob MacDougall, Valamir.

2/17/2004 Silmenume: zplay - liberating Sim and embarrassing Exploration!
[quote="Ron Edwards"]What I guess I don't understand is why you consider zilchplay to have been lumped with Simulationist play. Given your definition (and especially your clarification to Emily above), it…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag, Valamir, Mike Holmes, cruciel, M. J. Young, clehrich.

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