Topic: Give them the game for free, then sell it to them!
Started by: Rexfelis
Started on: 3/5/2004
Board: Publishing
On 3/5/2004 at 3:17pm, Rexfelis wrote:
Give them the game for free, then sell it to them!
This thread is a split from Clinton R. Nixon's Lulu thread. Clinton said something that got me thinking:
All my games from now on - and I'll retroactively be doing this with Donjon - have their text for free online. Therefore, anyone interested can read the game all they like. If they want a printed copy, they can get one. It'll take a week or so to get, but they still have access to the text while they wait.
I think this is a good idea. As a consumer, I think I'm more likely to buy Donjon if I know exactly what I'm getting. I've thought of buying it before but have hesitated, because I have a small gaming budget (grad student). I have to be about 90% sure I'm going to like a game before I buy it.
My question is, what do others think about this business model? Will they buy it after you've already given it to them for free?
Regards,
Rexfelis
On 3/5/2004 at 4:10pm, Lxndr wrote:
RE: Give them the game for free, then sell it to them!
Some will. Others will bind it themselves, etc. In my opinion, this most likely WILL lead to fewer sales... but then again, Clinton isn't all that concerned about sales, to all appearances. He's happy just to get his game out there (and more power to him).
I'm liking the model that Ferry Bazelmans did with SOAP - there's a "free" version, which is a complete working version that's just, y'know, old and will never be updated, but still completely works, even if it differs from the pdf copy (and the print copy, too). Ron did something similar with the "apprentice" version of Sorcerer, and the TRoS QuickStart rules could be considered to sort of share the same shipping lanes, if not exactly be in the same boat.
It's an idea I've been toying with for Fastlane - put out an old (but cleaned up) playtest copy that lacks several rules changes and additions, but still WORKS. Then entice people with the full product.
On 3/5/2004 at 4:18pm, Matt Gwinn wrote:
RE: Give them the game for free, then sell it to them!
If the free version is a pdf Acrobat writer will let you set it up so people can't print it or cut and paste from it. It would allow people to read the system, but make it pretty inconvenient to use while playing unless you have a lap top with you.
Yes, I know there are ways around the security features, but I don't think most people are willing to go through the trouble of hacking your PDF.
,Matt Gwinn
On 3/5/2004 at 4:44pm, montag wrote:
RE: Give them the game for free, then sell it to them!
@Matt Gwinn
this is the first time I've heard that you can make PDFs one can't print. Are you sure that's possible.
Concerning the initial question, I do think a free PDF will hurt sales of the book. Immensely. People will download the PDF on a "I want to have it" impulse, check it out, and if they get to play it, conveniently forget to buy the actual book. I think this model only works if you've got (a) a vast number of pages and (b) superior quality in the book.
For instance, the guys at www.degenesis.de plan to offer 400 pages with excellent layout and illustrations for download, on the assumption that few people are mad enough to print all that stuff and play with a loose collection of sheets. They'll give away the PDFs for quick reference, printouts for players with necessary information, reference for follow-up publications and because they know fellow developers, system- tinkers and collectors would like to have a look :)
On 3/5/2004 at 5:03pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
RE: Give them the game for free, then sell it to them!
Hello,
This topic has been discussed a lot at the Forge, so I recommend checking out this forum pretty thoroughly. It's a lot of work, but I think you'll like it. Two threads to start with are:
Has anyone tried selling RPGs as shareware? (the most recent)
web publishing model (the oldest)
Montag, I think you might review some success stories about this issue, especially InSpectres and Sorcerer.
Best,
Ron
Forge Reference Links:
Topic 9742
Topic 95
On 3/5/2004 at 5:33pm, montag wrote:
RE: Give them the game for free, then sell it to them!
Ron Edwards wrote: Montag, I think you might review some success stories about this issue, especially InSpectres and Sorcerer.In that case: why isn't Sorcerer (or InSpectres for that matter) available for download? ;)
Seriously, playtest versions, sample chapters, betas etc. all can and often do increase sales, as has indeed been shown.
But unless I'm having a severe episode of alexia, this thread was about offering the _full_ text as a free PDF (and without a time limit). In which case, the book provides only the advantage of "bookishness" which, though enough for some, IMHO is not enough for most people. AFAIK neither Sorcerer nor InSpectres ever was available in the full, final version for free, so I fail to see how their – different – strategy is relevant here. (But I'm very willing to be educated on that matter, just go ahead.)
IMHO, only under the conditions I outlined above, considerations like aesthetics and ease of use come into play, which IMHO again tips the scales in favour of increased sales.
On 3/5/2004 at 6:01pm, Matt Gwinn wrote:
RE: Give them the game for free, then sell it to them!
When using Adobe Acrobat use the "Save As" option. When the save window comes up choose "Standard" for security. It will give you the option to disallow the following:
Printing
Selecting Text or Graphics
Editing the File
Adding Notes
At least on the Mac version.
,Matt
On 3/5/2004 at 6:22pm, ejh wrote:
RE: Give them the game for free, then sell it to them!
Relevant successful experiment in "give it away and then sell it to them!" philosophy:
http://www.baen.com/library/
Personal testimony: Ron gave me a free PDF of Trollbabe for reference for doing the comic. When I saw he was selling a half-decent bound printed version of the game at the Forge booth at Gencon, I snapped it up.
I don't know if I can explain the economic psychology that makes the Baen Free Library work, and that made me buy that rather than printing out a copy somewhere, but it works.
"It probably will lead to reduced sales" sounds true in theory but the Baen Free Library suggests it might be the opposite of the truth in practice.
On 3/5/2004 at 6:44pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
RE: Give them the game for free, then sell it to them!
Hello,
I stand corrected, Montag. I misinterpreted the "then" in the thread title as a first-free, then-sell strategy.
Best,
Ron
On 3/5/2004 at 6:46pm, Paul Watson wrote:
RE: Give them the game for free, then sell it to them!
Another success story to cite: http://mindview.net/Books. Bruce Eckel has published a few books on software development both as freely available downloads and as traditional physical books. He has cited this with improving the quality of the books, as well as the amount of his sales.
Edit: Of course, there are differences between the economics of IT vs. RPG books. This will be an interesting experiment to observe.
On 3/6/2004 at 12:39am, Aman the Rejected wrote:
Re: Give them the game for free, then sell it to them!
Rexfelis wrote: Will they buy it after you've already given it to them for free?
Don't forget, for a lot of PDF files and the like, once it's been released somewhere, it's been released everywhere.
So if people are paying for Donjon and the like after they've read it and liked it, ther is some chance they already have the PDF file.
Faithfully Yours,
Aman the Rejected
On 3/6/2004 at 4:23am, bcook1971 wrote:
RE: Give them the game for free, then sell it to them!
I appreciate the link to the Baen Library. It gives perspective on a lot of issues having to do with file sharing. I find it comforting.
On 3/7/2004 at 6:30am, xiombarg wrote:
RE: Give them the game for free, then sell it to them!
bcook1971 wrote: I appreciate the link to the Baen Library. It gives perspective on a lot of issues having to do with file sharing. I find it comforting.
We risk going far afield here, but I think the fact is that when you enjoy something someone produces -- be it music, a book, or a game -- many people want to give them a little money for it, particularly if they know they already like it and they can get some additional value for their money. Sure, you might not get rich this way, but it works. Witness, for example, the sheer amount of T-shirts that are sold by webcomic publishers.
It's quite another thing to have to pay for something before you can enjoy it at all. When that's the case, it had better be seriously cool, and even if it is seriously cool, it had better not be overpriced.
This is a fact that the music industry and the software industry and, to a lesser extent, the RPG industry have yet to grasp. The fact of the matter is, with a lot of marketing power, you can make money on stuff even sight unseen, and then perhaps leverage your position in the market to remain dominant. This was what Microsoft does and what TSR did before it pissed away its money on bad non-RPG publishing ventures and internal quabbling, which led to it getting bought out by Wizards. To a certain extent, White Wolf still successfully uses this model.
However, you CAN make money with the "free this way, pay this way" model. Perhaps not as much money, but that money will be made more ethically, and you won't have to shove a good portion of your profits back into marketing to get a further return. Plus, it isn't like anyone, even Wizards of the Coast, is making "mad cash" in this industry by conventional standards.
Also, as mentioned before, if your primary goal isn't to make money, but just to get your game out there so more people can enjoy it, any extra money you make is gravy. And as the open source movement in software has shown, software does not have to be "professional" to be good -- and the same is arguably true of RPGs.