Disclaimer: FF does NOT mean or indicate, imply directly or indirectly, Final Fantasy. There is no subtle invited assumption that it does or does not. Nope. None. And since there isn't any, there is also no reason to move this thread to RPG theory. It fould mean Folger's-Fu or flower frolicking. It could just represent the highest two digit number, 255, to be represented in hexidecimal.

So: I decided to possibly scrap my D20 idea for Legacy, the full linear campaign I'm designing for my friends or possibly publish in the future. I eventually figured that I could create my own system and it would be easier than to enlessly modify D20 to my own stance.

I've explained my FF fundamentals in earlier threads and I felt that I could create a better combat system with a new mechanic I thought up (Which I'm sure has been used before).

Here goes: Each character has different dice for their-
Attack
Damage
Parry

As in, it ranges from D4 to D12. The number is also indicitive to your character. However, you can use combat tactics to shift the number of dice.

Example:

Attack(D6)-3
Damage(D8)-2
Parry(D6)-3

Armor would act as damage reduction.
I'm leaning towards a HP system.


In combat you can make a 'fierce attack' which would lower your attack dice by 1 and raise your damage dice by 1.

This is IMHO a more fluid system than D20, and would make it easier to create special combat techniques for each character.

This is mostly concerned with a combat system, but I'm also planning on having a detailed technique system too. I'm thinking level progression and maybe a seperate ability system that goes along with it.

So... here's my question: I've been thinking about instituting an attribute system. I'm not sure what those are called in RPGs. An ability score system. This would basically be a controlled variable that would help to differenciate characters on a psychological level and give them more numbers to increase.

They also might be able to give me more freedom with abilities.

So what do you think? I'm okay if it resembles a fantasy heartbreaker. I'm not sure what those are, actually. I felt that Heartbreakers are games that are trying to be a bigger better D&D but falls to the same basic design flaws. I'm pretty much okay with that. It's a very story based campaign, and the system and everything there is pretty much just for illusionism's sake anyway.

That's just my take though.

May the wind be always at your back,
-Empyrealmortal

Mmmm... FF...

I'd love to see an expansion on "Fully linear campaign"

I have dealt a *lot* with VRPG and CRPG inspired TRPG games, both in my own design, play of other games, and other people's designs. I think that your primary focus should be the following: It needs to stand on its own as a TRPG design, rather than an emulation of a VRPG. VRPG systems are, by nature of the platform, more complicated than good TRPGs.

That said: This looks pretty combat oriented? Are you planning on having any system for out-of-combat skills (My character is a thief, and so he climbs on walls) or is that going to be "systemless" color? How about equipment? Initiative?

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=9513

There is the former thread.

I have dealt a *lot* with VRPG and CRPG inspired TRPG games, both in my own design, play of other games, and other people's designs. I think that your primary focus should be the following: It needs to stand on its own as a TRPG design, rather than an emulation of a VRPG. VRPG systems are, by nature of the platform, more complicated than good TRPGs.

That said: This looks pretty combat oriented? Are you planning on having any system for out-of-combat skills (My character is a thief, and so he climbs on walls) or is that going to be "systemless" color? How about equipment? Initiative?

question: if you don't want characters making 'skill rolls' (or whatever your system uses) to get out of jail because it undermines their protagonism, then why do they make attack rolls in combat? surely getting killed is more of an anti-protagonist event than having the 'glamourous knight' beat you at something you want to be good at. the later provides incentive, the former... well, there really aren't many more powerful disincentives than dying.

also, if a thief doesn't make rolls to do their thing, why would you need a system mechanic for dealing with your great mechanic master doing his thing? why can a thief break out of any prison in the world without worry yet your fantastic mechanic can't make a huge photon torpedo launcher?

also, of your six character's listed, five are male, and the last one is undescribed... but i'm willing to bet with a name like "Ten", it isn't a girl. i have no problem with this if it suits your world fine (maybe it's set in a culture like ancient greece where women had to stay in their homes, or maybe all the women are the superior ruling class, and would never lower themselves to mingle with the "adventurers" except for the purposes of propogation of the species), but perhaps you might want to include some female characters.

as a side note, i admit that i've not read everything ever posted on this forum, so please forgive my ignorance, but what the hell are CRPG's, TRPG's, and VRPG's. i've figured out the "RPG" part, it's the first letter of the acronyms i can't decipher...

Good questions, and I feel that I've thought about all of them.

as a side note, i admit that i've not read everything ever posted on this forum, so please forgive my ignorance, but what the hell are CRPG's, TRPG's, and VRPG's. i've figured out the "RPG" part, it's the first letter of the acronyms i can't decipher...

question: if you don't want characters making 'skill rolls' (or whatever your system uses) to get out of jail because it undermines their protagonism, then why do they make attack rolls in combat? surely getting killed is more of an anti-protagonist event than having the 'glamourous knight' beat you at something you want to be good at. the later provides incentive, the former... well, there really aren't many more powerful disincentives than dying.

also, if a thief doesn't make rolls to do their thing, why would you need a system mechanic for dealing with your great mechanic master doing his thing? why can a thief break out of any prison in the world without worry yet your fantastic mechanic can't make a huge photon torpedo launcher?

also, of your six character's listed, five are male, and the last one is undescribed... but i'm willing to bet with a name like "Ten", it isn't a girl. i have no problem with this if it suits your world fine (maybe it's set in a culture like ancient greece where women had to stay in their homes, or maybe all the women are the superior ruling class, and would never lower themselves to mingle with the "adventurers" except for the purposes of propogation of the species), but perhaps you might want to include some female characters.

But yeah... I'm working on an attribute system but I'm kinda stuck. You see, I think I explained the combat system in the first post. I'm thinking of just having an attribute modify all rolls that go under it but that seems to simple.

My only problem is that they don't help distinguish a character like the 'ol D&D attribute system does...

The basic mechanic really is simple: It's just a variable dicepool. I don't konw what the official name for that is.

The attributes would probably just be a modifier. It would help distinguish the charcters because it would rate some stronger than others, others better with machines... etc. I could probably function without them but... eh...

Here's an idea: Atributes are on a scale of like 6-30 and they determine prerequisites for techniques and having certain scores can give you bonuses. This would fufill all of my requirements

BTW- I'm planning on releasing this as a (probably free) contained campaign on the internet this fall (After my group playtests it). It would be a unique concept as far as I know. You have 6-8 characters, your own system, and your own campaign important source material in a (probably free) downloadable PDF. It's like a (probably free) premade adventure that takes lots of sessions.


Input about attribute system? Any questions about the world? I have some pretty deep themes going on here and I can only reveal too much but I'm pretty open to questions to anyone interested.

May the wind be always at your back,
-Empyrealmortal

Eric J. wrote:

Because 'skill rolls' give characters too much power over story. It allows them to say, climb over some mountains or swim a lake which goes against the linear structure. When you get knocked out in combat, just that happens, you get knocked out. You'd be supprised about the dying. Protagonising usually has a lot do to with your character concept. Most characters are adventurers and by definition, live a very perilous life. Dying can be less deprotagonising than failing at a conceptually related ability.

=)

I'm glad to see that someone likes my idea.

So essentially what your saying here is you want to take the role-playing out of RPG's and reduce them down to nothing more than Choose your own adventure games. Wher you have to follow the plot you cannot devate form it, and your given a list of choices.

Now to do what your taking about with a game, please tell me your aiming this at new players who have never role-played before, or your makeing the game for children.

Also please tell me your a good storyteller, because the story would have to be international bestseller material for me to keep any form of interest, in a game like yours.

I'm not saying it's bad but it will have limited appeal and not go down well in the current comunity, however Steve Jackson started out doing things similar. So who knows you could be the next SJ.




I always thought role-playing was evloving.

I think what Gabby may be saying, Eric, is that the computer versions of the game already do what you're suggesting far better than a tabletop RPG could possibly. A lot of what you're taking out of the game in terms of "railroading" the journey, is precisely the advantage of the tabletop format. You've got two media here, and you seem to be using the inferior one.

IOW, I have FF on my machine at home. Why would I want to play a slower version? If you put the limitations of the one medium on the other, then you get the problems of both, and none of the advantages.

Mike

You've got two media here, and you seem to be using the inferior one.

Railroading isn't neccicarilly inferior. It can be used to create a more coherent world, allow for better gameplay, and tell a better story. It has some obvious drawbacks, yes, but I would like to see what can be accomplished by this style of gameplay...

So my question is: If they could convert D&D and make something out of it (Final Fantasy), why can't I convert Final Fantasy and make something out of it?

i have no doubt that you have come up with a strong and complex storyline that you are proud of, and you want to share it with other people in a kind of "multiplayer" fashion, but as to what can be accomplished through this style of gameplay, i think you'll find the answer is: not very much. computer games can get away with this because they are historically linear, and this is understood as necessary to avoid the overwhelming task of creating a program that can generate plot "on the fly". tabletop RPGs have a totally different history, and so players do not expect or want to be railroaded any more than players of a computer game want to be stuck somewhere wondering what the hell they are supposed to do, only to find that there is no answer.

by its very definition, a linear plot removes player control. in computer games like FF7,8,9,X/whatever, the ONLY choices any player can make is what items they are going to pick up/buy and how they are going to win a combat scenario. if they die, they must do it again. if they can't die, what is the point of playing at all? what happens when players die in FF Legacy?

i didn't design Final Fantasy, so i could be wrong, but i'd put money on a bet that they didn't convert D&D.

my suggestion, and you can take this with a grain of salt, would be to take everything that you like about FF, and create the mechanics necessary to enable these things, then work on adjusting them to allow players to create their own FFesque storylines as they play. things that i would highly recommend would be some sort of Final Fantasyish character progression system (materia, grids, or whatever), have the mandatory mini-game that can be used to further develop characters (chocobo breeding/racing, cards, blitz-ball), and insane weaponry with unique and multiple effects.