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Topic: [PRINCIPIUM NOVA] Resources and Scalability
Started by: Jasper
Started on: 3/11/2004
Board: Indie Game Design


On 3/11/2004 at 1:14am, Jasper wrote:
[PRINCIPIUM NOVA] Resources and Scalability

In Principium Nova (recently renamed to the singular), I have a resolution system that is designed to scale in terms of task size and specificity, so that it can handle anything from a single sword thrust to years of work spent building a shrine. This is mainly achieved through a generic approach to the results of task resolution: e.g. "injuries" are penalties acquired in a task, with the "danger and safety ratings" determining how likely injury is (do you have to fail to get an injury? by how much? etc.); players are encouraged to define "stakes" for a task that describe why it's important and what will come about with failure -- thus defining the exact boundaries of the single task's effects on the game.

Spirit is the universal resource of the game, and can be spent to do a lot of things, including simply providing extra dice to roll in task resolution. My question is, do the variable scales of tasks demand a corresponding scaling of resources, namely spirit? Here's how it might be a problem:

Task scale is determined by the entire group, owing to what they feel interested in (detail = interest), what scale has the appropriate "feel" to match the task, or whatever other reason. Say I'm a player and my character Marcus is going to have to fight some bandits. It's going to be a tough fight. The GM gives me choice of scale. If I choose a small scale, and play the scene action by action, I'll need to spend lots of spirit to get extra dice on every roll in my hope to survive. If I choose a large scale and make (say) just one roll for the whole combat, I'll need to spend far less spirit to get an equivalent bonus on all my rolls (because it's just one roll). Now combat may normally be handled at relatively small scale, but let's say my paly group has a history of doing it lots of ways. If Marcus is strapped for spirit and I want him to live, I may be strongly inclined to pick a larger scale.

This problem arises not just in tasks, since other aspects of the game are also scaleable, and spirit is the unifying resource that relates everything to everything else.


Am I falling into the familiar designer's trap of fearing encroaching "munchkinism" or misplaced gamism (ala the search for the holy grail of balance)? I don't think so, at least not merely that. It seems to me that there are problems even beyond it being "exploited," in that it produces inconsistency. But is it necessary that the same in-game action (series of actions or whatever) have the same effect on the character's resources regardless of scale? It may be some matter of Creative Agenda, in that a more narrative approach would say "No, small scale tasks are small for a reason: they're important. Important tasks should involve more resources." This of course ties scale strongly to importance to the themes of the game -- not something I had initially wanted to require.

Conversely, if uniformity is to be maintained, then it would seem that the spending of resources needs to scale too. Then, in a Medium task you spend 2 spirit for an extra die, but in a Really Big one you spend 5. I'm not sure that the grittiness of spirit can mechanically make this viable (at least as I've presented it), and it would also required players to distinctly categorize tasks...not necessarily a bad thing, but another point of contact (whereas otherwise the scale can often be left unspoken).


Any thoughts on this? I'm sure there are other games with scaling task resolution: how did they handle it? Is this a case of choosing to support sim/nar? (Is it in fact just a fear of munchkinism?)

Edit: an up-to-date, 5-page version of the rules is available here.

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On 3/11/2004 at 9:02am, Eero Tuovinen wrote:
Re: [PRINCIPIUM NOVA] Resources and Scalability

Jasper wrote:
In Principium Nova (recently renamed to the singular)


Hah haa, the latin freak strikes again! Without commenting on the actual subject matter, the actual singular for 'New Foundation' is Principium Novum, the word principium being neuter.

Actually, I'll comment on your question. If you don't do anything to counteract the perceived tendency, you are effectively giving the players two routes to effectiveness: either boost skills (or whatever you have in addition to the Spirit resource) and stay with detailed task resolution, or boost Spirit and strive for conflict resolution on the large scale. This is fine if your system has a dependence between the two. If a player can and will have to choose between high skill and high soul, you don't have a problem with game balance, assuming there is a equitable way of choosing the method in a conflict. You just encourage certain scale for certain characters.

On the other hand, if there is no exhange involved between the two, you'll be needing something more. That something could be a trade-in: who narrates the large scale task resolution? It could be that by choosing large scale the player is effectively resigning some of his power to decide on the details of the confrontation. I don't know about your themes, but it could be that strenghtening Spirit by choosing high scale would also lose the player crucial details in making decisions. This could even be a feature of the system, with character gaining more power in exhange for the GM hassling the details, with wrong NPCs dying in the battles and so on.

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On 3/15/2004 at 3:36pm, Jasper wrote:
RE: [PRINCIPIUM NOVA] Resources and Scalability

That's a good analysis, Eero. It hadn't occurred to me that this might create to alternate paths to effectiveness. Although the only way to change a character is through Spirit, players could indeed choose whether they want to have high skills or whether they want to use the Spirit to get yet more Spirit. I don't think this is a dichotomy I want though -- or at least I want it to be left up to character concept, and not linked to choice of scale.

Large scale does indeed tend to allow more up to post hoc narration, which is often done by the GM. I think I'd like to keep the choice of scale open though, and not have particular pitfalls associated with large scales: the main reason for allowing scale is so that groups can breeze through boring bits without mere hand-waving or GM fiat by still using the resolution system.

I think what I'll do, at least provisionally, is introduce a simple exchange rate, dependant on scale, so that buying 1 die in task resolution costs a variable amount of Spirit based on scale (or alternately that one point of spirit grants a variable number of dice). I hope to be playtesting soon, so I'll see how it works there.

Edit & PS. Thanks for the grammar tip, Eero. It's been too long since I really used any of this stuff.

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