Topic: [FS:Twilight] Computer to Tabletop?
Started by: age_of_dissent
Started on: 3/11/2004
Board: Indie Game Design
On 3/11/2004 at 9:27am, age_of_dissent wrote:
[FS:Twilight] Computer to Tabletop?
Hi folks! I'm new here, but I hope I can avoid any obvious mistakes.
(Edit: And I make a spelling mistake in the subject. I can't believe I did that. Forgive us our typos, and all that)
I am just starting the conversion of a computer RPG to a tabletop system. I have already realised that the dice mechanic needs to be vastly simplified (partly due to the fact that real dice don't have as many sides as the rand() function). I have also tweaked the system so that heath poins and experience points are on a more reasonable scale (such that new skills and new spells cost 1-5 points, instead of thousands on the computer)
I'd assume that people have tried to convert other computer systems to tabletop in the past. So I'd much appreciate if anyone could forewarn me of any obvious problems which I might not expect.
But anyway... that's the background, on to my question:
Also, I am wondering whether it is worthwhile to include converted statistics for characters from the original game. This is designed to be set "in the world of" rather than being a direct translation. But I am unsure whether some players might be interested in seeing them. Can you offer advice on this?
Thankyou
Andrew
On 3/12/2004 at 5:06am, age_of_dissent wrote:
Clarity
Hmm... that post wasn't worded too well. Maybe I should be a bit clearer with what I'm looking for. I could do with advice on any or all of three loosely related things.
• How much detail should I include about the plot of the CRPG on which this one is based? The setting is roughly 2 years later on, dealing with how normal people are still coping with the aftermath. Is it better to include spoilers for the game, or to leave certain parts of the history indistinct? I realise that this is a compromise, but I could use some advice on which way is more reasonable to err.
• Should I include converted stats for some characters from the original game? I expect some players will want to meet them, but I'm sure it isn't worth 100 pages of space. If I do include some characters, which ones should I choose? And how many? Playable characters? Enemies who survived? Named NPCs? I'm not sure which one would be most interesting.
• And thirdly, a more generic question. Is there anything I should be watching out for, any potential problems I'll need to be careful with?
Thanks again :)
On 3/12/2004 at 5:42am, Eric J. wrote:
RE: [FS:Twilight] Computer to Tabletop?
Welcome to the forge.
I've noticed that CRPGs aren've very popluar here... :). Care to fill is in a bit more?
One thing is that this forum is for publishing specifically so you may want to move this thread if your game is just a conversion of a CRPG to Pen and paper.
I'm interested though: Why would you transfer over the mechanic? Computer mechanics almost always rely on complex math algorythms that are set more for gameplay than anything else...
I don't think it is your wording specifically. I think that you need to describe some issues to adress. It would make our jobs a lot easier.
May the wind be always at your back,
-Empyrealmortal
On 3/12/2004 at 6:33am, age_of_dissent wrote:
RE: [FS:Twilight] Computer to Tabletop?
Eric J. wrote: Welcome to the forge.
I've noticed that CRPGs aren've very popluar here... :). Care to fill is in a bit more?
One thing is that this forum is for publishing specifically so you may want to move this thread if your game is just a conversion of a CRPG to Pen and paper.
I'm interested though: Why would you transfer over the mechanic? Computer mechanics almost always rely on complex math algorythms that are set more for gameplay than anything else...
I don't think it is your wording specifically. I think that you need to describe some issues to adress. It would make our jobs a lot easier.
May the wind be always at your back,
-Empyrealmortal
Thanks for the welcome :)
Well... as to why I'm making a game based on a computer game, it seemed the appropriate thing to do. The ending of the original FS:Dawn leads naturally onto a sequel in my mind. However, when I started thinking about the plot, it became obvious that it was too flexible, too open-ended for a computer game. So I decided to use the same world (but a few years later) in a tabletop RPG.
Also, when I look at the background colour, history and politics of the game world, it just feels like the kind of world I'd like to explore. Surely that's as good a reason as any to create a game.
You ask why I'm recreating the mechanics. I just thought it would be too slow to use the one from the game directly, due to the adding up of statistics and similar things. I think I can pretty much keep the feel of the system (elemental affinity and similar, which are very nice), while reducing most actions to a single roll. I'm still focusing on gameplay, just in a different medium.
The main issue I'm finding at the moment is with a couple of plot twists from the original game. The player discovers a really surprising plot to overthrow the imperial line, from a completely unexpected source. In thwarting this plan, they end up making large changes to international relations, tipping the world away from politics towards war. This world sliding to chaos makes a good TRPG setting. But I need to somehow explain how the world got into that state.
I don't expect too many people to play this. But the people who do will probably play Dawn at some point. So I don't want to spoil the game by giving away too much information about who the plotters are, or how they were defeated, even though those things will be pretty much key facts in the setting's history.
So my question remains... is it better to include too much information, or too little?
Any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Andrew
And sorry for posting in the wrong place. Where is the correct place to put requests for help, advice and suggestions on an RPG in progress?
On 3/12/2004 at 6:49am, anonymouse wrote:
RE: [FS:Twilight] Computer to Tabletop?
For starters, what game is this a continuation of? The only CRPG I can think of that "FS" would work for is "Fading Suns" which is.. already a classic RPG system (and has a d20 conversion, even).
On 3/12/2004 at 7:26am, age_of_dissent wrote:
Sorry 'bout that...
I didn't realise I hadn't mentioned it. The game is "Fading Shadows", a CRPG currently in development by a group of amateur volunteers. I've spoken to the main people on the project, and they like the idea. I wouldn't know how to go about securing the rights to adapt a commercial game even if I wanted to.
On 3/12/2004 at 9:29pm, anonymouse wrote:
RE: [FS:Twilight] Computer to Tabletop?
Do you have a webpage for us, design docs, anything? While there've certainly been CRPG > TRPG conversions of various stripes (Frag! comes to mind, which is a TRPG for FPS games, if you'll believe it; also the WarCraft d20 book), it'd help to see the source material before trying to give advice.
Definitely interested in helping you out on this (and I'm always looking for new computer games, 'specially amateur ones!) but would like some more background on the source material. =)
On 3/13/2004 at 8:04am, age_of_dissent wrote:
RE: [FS:Twilight] Computer to Tabletop?
Thanks :)
Any advice on the conversion would be much appreciated.
The webpage for the CRPG currently contains profiles of the main named characters and locations, as well as quite a number of side quests and mini adventures. There is, however, surprisingly little about the actual main plot. (I'll prod some of the guys to upload something, given that's the main bit of my problem)
I've worked out some of the basic mechanics of how it will work on the tabletop, I'll put them up on the web somewhere so you can give more informed comment. I've just got to finish writing stuff up.
Thanks for showing interest :)
On 3/13/2004 at 7:50pm, anonymouse wrote:
RE: [FS:Twilight] Computer to Tabletop?
Okay. Here's my thoughts on this at the moment, in no particular order.
* Fading Shadows seems to be a pretty standard computer RPG; you've got a character, you kill stuff, do fed-ex quests, and eventually your character gets stronger either through EXP or items or both.
* You want to specifically copy over the mechanical systems used to a tabletop RPG setting.
* Taking the mechanics that a computer game uses, and making them into working analogues for pen, paper, and dice, is easy. Stupidly easy. It's grunt work, slogging through some numbers, and not at all difficult. I know, because I've done similar projects on my own over the past year or so.
* Capturing the feel and intent of the mechanics is far, far more important. Yes, a game might have combat, but look at the results of those combats: if the characters hit 90% of the time, and only miss against really agile opponents, it doesn't matter what numbers the game uses to arrive at that. Roll 1d10, miss on 0, or miss on 0-3 against Agile enemies, and you've got it.
Why in the world do you feel you need a new system? It seems much more like what you want is just the setting. Settings are just a part, you can fit them to other systems.
What is it about the system that you feel is important to preserve?
On 3/16/2004 at 7:41am, age_of_dissent wrote:
RE: [FS:Twilight] Computer to Tabletop?
"What is it about the system that you feel is important to preserve?"
Mainly, I dislike the classification of "magic" as an ability, something you are good at or bad at. Most computer RPGs (and most of the generic TRPGs I've seen) have physical stats that are good for fighting and mental stats that are good for magic.
FS has 'elemental attunements' which are kind of funky. The setting and the rules fitting together perfectly.
Different people are attuned to different elements. A tough person with high stamina will be attuned to earth. He can cast earth magic more easily. He has good resistance to water magic, but is easily hurt by iron elemental spells. A guy with high awareness and reflexes is more tightly attuned to fire, can learn fire spells more easily, is hurt a lot by water magic and not so much by iron.
This kind of dissolves the distinction between fighters and mages.
Also, the computer system works pretty much like a tabletop system, so I figured that changing the dice system to make it simpler would be a lot less work than adapting a different system so that the mundane/magic balance of power fits the setting.
And a third point... a few of the FS:Dawn (CRPG) team have expressed an interest in playing Twilight using the characters from Dawn. If I write a new mechanic but keep the same stats, they don't need to do any maths for conversion, they can just lift it straight over.