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Topic: Pre-raiding jitters put stop to orcish horde?
Started by: greyorm
Started on: 3/12/2004
Board: Indie Game Design


On 3/12/2004 at 7:52pm, greyorm wrote:
Pre-raiding jitters put stop to orcish horde?

Alright, ORX is nearly complete.

There's a few bits to write out here and there, but I know exactly what is going into those bits, plus examples need to be written ("*sigh* I hate writing examples"), and I'm waiting on artwork before fixing up the layout. All in all, knowing how I work and what's left to be done, it is nothing that will take me more than a few days of work, a week if I screw off.

Here's my problem: I'm freaking out that the game isn't ready. That folks are going to read it and go "Huh? I don't get it" in a very real mechanical/play way, because play is (IME) way different from what most gamers are used to.

So, any helpful advice on what to do?

Should I release the document despite my worries? Then release another copy later, once the complaints have started pouring in? (ie: the Microsoft method)

Should I make an unfinished prerelease available for download (or via e-mail, so I can track it) specifically to gather feedback? (Though I'd worry about putting a nearly complete copy into an interested party's hands, and thus losing that sale.)

Should I pimp for a group of outside readers with the specific job of going through the text for clarity?

What's the best solution here, considering I still want to make my release this spring (that is, within the next two months), and I want the best possible product?

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On 3/12/2004 at 8:48pm, Alan wrote:
RE: Pre-raiding jitters put stop to orcish horde?

You want a test run in your target market. Ask for cold readers here at the Forge or RPG.net - people who aren't familiar with your project.

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On 3/12/2004 at 9:24pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Pre-raiding jitters put stop to orcish horde?

Playtesting is always important - get as much as possible. If you feel that the game is complete, however, ask yourself if negative feedback about people not liking some part of the game would get you to change it. That is, what if somebody said they didn't like your front-loaded contest system, because it didn't feel "realistic"? Would you change it?

You can't please everyone, nor should you try. The game is, on a macro-level, what it is. So publish it that way, and see how well it does. Don't worry about the garunteed fact that some people are going to hate it. The only question is will some people like it. If you had enough confidence to write the game, chances are that they will.

So, if you've got enough feedback from playtests, then publish the sucker.

Mike

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On 3/12/2004 at 10:10pm, greyorm wrote:
RE: Pre-raiding jitters put stop to orcish horde?

Actually, Mike, I'm not worried about people not liking it, bitching about "realism" or the mechanics or whatnot. They can like it or not.

I am worried about the clarity of the text. Conceptually, I think it rocks. I've done my playtesting, and it (appears to) run. It's just completely and totally the clarity issue right now that is bothering me.

I'm vastly worried that the text will be confusing and arcane, and thus a complete put-off to readers. I can't say that it will be, and I hope it isn't, but I'm not the one who can really make that judgement, since I know what I'm trying to say (and hence any group playing it with me gets that benefit).

Hence my concerns above, and the wondering of what route would be best to take.

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On 3/13/2004 at 3:32am, daMoose_Neo wrote:
RE: Pre-raiding jitters put stop to orcish horde?

Easy way to do it then~
Get a buddy who HASN'T played it, give him/her a copy and ask them to run a game with it, preferably one you can sit in on or at least observe in some way.
DON'T explain anything to your friend OR answer questions at the game (unless its like a SUPER roadblock). Just let them play it out (while you're biting nails in the background ;) )
This would give you a chance to observe the game in its "element" so to speak, the hands of the end users. Watch how your friend explains the system to the others where applicable, see what mechanics they get right away, what ones need explaining/clarifying by your friend or another player, and see what they totally skip over/simplify/edit to a 'house rule' (I did that alot with D&D ^_^).
If something is majorly buggared, take a little bit to alter. If its confusing, clarify, then run the clarification by them (or even better, another group). I did that with several games of my CG- I showed a couple people how to play, then let them play each other without me playing. Then I gave the rulebook to someone and let them play and observed some of it. I caught a lot of things that were crystal clear to me but so freakin foggy to others~
If you have the time and the man power, tis a good method.

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On 3/13/2004 at 2:30pm, Sylus Thane wrote:
RE: Pre-raiding jitters put stop to orcish horde?

Hey Orm, I'll make you a trade, I'll read yours for clarity if you'll do the same for mine? I don't think we've read each others work so it would be even.

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On 3/13/2004 at 4:59pm, Ole wrote:
RE: Pre-raiding jitters put stop to orcish horde?

You should definately get some cold readings. Ask specifically for problems with comprehension. If there are specifc parts of the text you are worried about, ask the readers to explain those parts in their own words.
Does the game contain examples for all important mechanics? If not, add some, it significantly improves comprehension.

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On 3/15/2004 at 6:09am, greyorm wrote:
RE: Pre-raiding jitters put stop to orcish horde?

Neo -- that's a great idea, except for one gaping flaw for me: I have no one local I could sit in with and observe in that manner (I do all my gaming on-line via IRC). I could possibly use the Indie-Netgaming group that way, though. Have to ask.

Sylus -- sounds like a deal. I'm pretty sure I haven't read your game (as I'm not sure what it is off-hand). PM or e-mail me for the exchange...remember, The Blue Cow Flies at Midnight. Moo!

(Sorry, perfect chance for bad cold war spy humor. Couldn't resist.)

Ole -- Ok. Thanks. As for examples...I'm working on them, and about half the sections contain examples at this point (I really do hate writing examples, so I've been unfortunately dragging my feet with them).

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. If anyone else has any comments to add in here, feel free.

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