Hi everybody,

First i wanna say that i LOVE TRoS, but we play in a middel earth setting, and the players most often fight orcs where they are now.

I think i have figured out the stats, but armour i can't figure out, and btw we wanna have orc like in the LOTR movies, so now i ask, becouse i can't really figure out what armour they use, so therefor i need you help with armour on these classes of orcs. I can't figure out if they use plate or hard leather, in the moives it is all black, but at the plain it looks like all the orcs are using a Pot helmet and plate armour on the torso...im i right?

Misty mountain orcs (normal every-day orc)
Mordoc war orc (plains of palainor)
Greater Orc (not uruk hai, but they are at the black gate in the movie).
Uruk Hai at Helms Deep (full plate right?)

MORDOR WAR ORCS:
Here is the stats on my Mordor War Orcs

www.fflr.dk/tabletop/TROS/MordorWarOrcs.pdf

Please look at it and give me some comments, bad or good don't matter, and please go into detail if there is something you think is wrong.
I have tried to balance them on the Mercenary and Soldier stats in OFAM

There's a book called Weapons and Warfare of Middle Earth, available in most bookstores, which goes into a lot of detail on the arms and armour used by the Elves, Dwarves, Orcs and Goblins (at least as seen in the films).

This may be some help to you.

thanks i will try to find it.

So far i have only found this on Amazon:

"The Lord of the Rings Weapons and Warfare"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0618390995/qid=1079707347/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/103-6172640-0587811

is this the book you are talking about?

Yeah. That book is VERY GOOD (as a source for the movie).

Its failing is that it intentionally canonifies those things in the movie that were modified from the actual books. For instance, there is a big section on the swords used by the hobbits emphasising that they are the swords Aragorn gave to them.

In reality, Aragorn never gave them the swords, of course. They came from the barrow. But since the barrow scene was skipped the movie needed a way to get the swords to the hobbits, and coming from Aragorn was a reasonable short cut.

The book, however, rather than clarifying that, takes the movies version as canon.

BUT, as a source outlining in detail the equipment, armor, and weapons of the various forces and characters as seen in the movie it is beautiful. You'll get the full scoop on orc kit, elf kit, Gondor kit. A great resource...for the movie version.

It sounds like a book i would love reading, and even if its only stuff from the movie, i think i will be satified with it.

Do you own the book yourself? and does is really got great picture in it?

I have it. Its a beautiful book. I'm trying to think if there is any original art in it...I don't think so. I think all of the images are either cells from the movies, shots that were filmed but not actually seen in the movies, or photos of props used in the movies.

Here's a quote from review:

If you're a Tolkien/movies/warfare type of buff, and you want to know all there is to the different kinds of Uruk-Hai present at Helm's Deep to why the Fountain Guards of the Tower of Ecthelion wore silk masks to a table depicting the range of arrows used in ME, then this book is definitely for you.

Valamir wrote: I have it. Its a beautiful book. I'm trying to think if there is any original art in it...I don't think so. I think all of the images are either cells from the movies, shots that were filmed but not actually seen in the movies, or photos of props used in the movies.

anyone please rate the orc stats i have made?

I might have dropped the captains proficiency by a couple of points, but otherwise, sure, they look fine.

What's a chock? ;-)

Brian.

hehe, spelling error i think, i will correct it right now......

maybe you are right about the captain, he is maybe a bit to high skilled with a blade.

Anyhow i post it here so anybody can use it if they think it look good, the only thing i "demand" is people giving it a comment, so i can improve it.

Brian you are the rules-guru along with Jake, please take alook at this:
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=10299&sid=cd45fa520d4349ab98653cef18fe8dff

And tell me if i have done something wrong

Why do Mordor ORcs have a Proficincy of 10? That's incredibly powerful, isn't it? Or am I missing something? :)

they got 10 becouse i want then to be rather dangerous, and i made them as WAR orcs, the orc army from Morder, i think they live a hard life where those who not are good enough will be killed, therefor i made them a little bit good at fighting, if you lived in a enviroment(spelling?) where, fighting and battleing was THE way of life, then i think you maybe will rather good at it to survive.

When i make the NORMAL orcs they will not be that armoured and not quite at skilled with a blade. hope this gives some reason.

2nd i did im so they could be opponents that the players would fear when they grow into experince.

Anyway im glad you did give it some comment, im that kind of person who sometimes not see fatal mistakes becouse of excitement.

I would NEVER want to fight a Troll the way you stated them.

I downloaded your .pdf. Maybe I'll playtest it with my group and see how it goes.

The stats for the Troll are pretty much identical to the ones I made. One of the only real differences was that I just increased there toughness, but didn't give then a natural armour AV. But I actually prefer your idea! Do you have stats for any other races or creatures?

Hi Daagon

I will be making them today i think, i have planned to do "normal" orcs,
Uruk hais, goblins (moria orcs), last i will be doing some Warhammer Fantasy Beastmen.

To Sigurth

Yes the troll is crazy, but he is also a LARGE LARGE LARGE killing machine, but look at his CP....not that good. in our gaming sessions, 4 players meet him and surrounded him. one of the players with a large shield, did step first into his swing, doing a block with the shield with all the dices, and got more succes then the troll, but the troll smashed the shield to pieces and made a level 2 wound to his arm, this is fine, but then the other players who where on white dice, made an attack as there defence and one of the players halfsworded the troll in the back with his greatsword, and the two other players hacked at it with poleaxes, wounding it, taking away its few CP's and then finishing it off.

It think the combat was very good and FUN! and the players used somekind of team work, to kill it.

why are you worried about the troll, why should it be weak'er?
I based it on the troll in LoTR: the fellewship of the Ring movie, he i VERY BIG!

What rules where you using to allow the troll to smash the shield and still cause damage, even after a successful block? Sounds like fun! Bwahahahaa!!

easy. the troll was using a maul, but generaly that dont matter.
What happened was that the troll did an ok hit, but the player ofcourse did a much better block with his shield, when talking dice succeces, but even after deductiong hit vs. block successes, the damage done by the troll was greater then the shields av of 8, therefor i says as the GM, thats the troll smashed his shield, and all extra damage was transfered to his arm and that he was bashed to the ground, becouse of the weight of the trolls and his weapon.
all my players said after the session that they all could see the scene in there head, them circling the troll, and one of them steeped forward to get the trolls attention, hiding behind his large shield, hoping to take the blow, and the other players rushing to injure the troll. and the loved the way how the shield was smashed and he was thrown to the ground, very dramatic, becouse he could do the trick again. and realistic i think.

I ofcourse only use this against shields, not armours, i guess that way shields do have a AV and they are so high, is becouse its possible to smash them. the knockdown effect i simply did makeup my self, a big big troll weapon handled by a big heavy troll, maybe the player can take the damage, but his body weight is simply not enough to stop the weight of the trolls attack.

Hi

I have made some more PDF's with Middel Earth bad guys.

www.fflr.dk/tabletop/TROS/Goblins.pdf
www.fflr.dk/tabletop/TROS/Orcs.pdf
www.fflr.dk/tabletop/TROS/MordorWarOrcs.pdf
www.fflr.dk/tabletop/TROS/UrukHai.pdf
www.fflr.dk/tabletop/TROS/BeastmenRaiders.pdf (big=1mb)

give them some critics and let me see if i need to change them.

Some of the armour options are taken from this list:
www.fflr.dk/tabletop/TROS/Armour.pdf

Bergh -

How did you modify the Player Characters to fit Middle Earth ?

....oh, it's a sad day for the powers of evil when Morgoth himself openly consults computer forums using the guise of his Fair name to gain an edge over the inhabitants of Middle Earth. What I want to know is how you can type with that Iron Crown bound around your hands and what ISP services the Void?

actully not much, we simply did make standard characters and then began to play, with racial modifiers

Dain, please go more into detail....hehe

More details? I was just curious whether or not he wanted to order some Bactine for those nasty burn marks over his brows....I was going to suggest a good Wallgreens Pharmacy URL for him.

bergh wrote: Hi
give them some critics and let me see if i need to change them.

Thanks for answering.

I will TRY to defend my self :-)

1st: yes the orcs are very high, but remeber that this is the WAR orcs of mordor, ie. the mordor orc army, and i have decided that orcs are generaly really good fighters, they live a hard life where fighting is part of maybe every day, and therefor the weak are killed, survival of the fittest.
Else they will be robed, killed and other things not to mention here. I think soldier Orcs are a hard bunch, and ofcourse normal orcs are weaker.

Tolkien descripes that a normal orc are both smaller and weaker then a normal orc. but that there later is growing a larger type of orc as strong as a man, ie a better orc (not uruk hai), and i did give this orc ST5 as a normal human soldier/merc/thug.

2nd: yes orcs are dangerous to newbe adventures, but remeber that even starting characters are beaten easly by human soldier or merc's from the OBaM book, who i have based the orcs on. and orc should be feared, War (soldier) Orcs are not made to be mass-slaughtered. for that i have stats for "normal orcs" to throw at the players.

3rd. Uruks are NOT meant to by thrown at players for fun, meeting a bunch of uruks and not flee is for heros and elite soldiers.

4th: hmm, you are right trolls need more endurence, this will be fixed.

5th: Yes we are playing in your group that Troll-hide is hard armour, therefor armour penetrating weapons can be used. this is up to yourself to decide. but gives more flavor if the characters know that they are on a "troll hunt" hehe.

6th: Yes the WAR orcs are hard, and well armoured, but i have made them on the base of the human NPC's in The of Beasts and men, mostly on the soldier, Mercenary. ie. i have tryed to balance them vs. these guys.
who i think they fit VERY powerlevel vice.

7th: yes again, the players need to be a hard bunch to fight them, but then again, starting characters are not that hard, and i love giving EXP so the players can evolve there characters the way they like, but still wanna have orcs, who they dont just kill like they where children.

8th: they to look at my other "stat sheets" by clicking the link below my signature, take a look on the normal "orcs" sheet and compare them to the war orcs.
I would very much like that you criticise them also, so i can change any obvious mistakes.

Ok, a Middle Earth thread is going to get me out of temporary lurk mode ;) A few remarks, though: I am a)arguing solely on the basis of the written work b)arguing on the basis of my personal recollection of the texts and c)notoriously purist, so please don't take the criticism personal ;)

The main advantage of the majority of orcs is neither size, nor strength, nor skill. It is sheer numbers. If we look beyond the LotR for a moment and into the Silmarillion, an Orc host ambushed the Noldor under Feanor in the Dagor nuin Giliath, the Battle under Stars. The Noldor were taken by surprise, had not set up a proper camp yet, and were outnumbered by far. They also were a hodgepodge of women, children and complete civilians and in general had little battle experience. Nevertheless, they not only beat back the orcs, they completely routed them and launched a counterattack. Your regular orc is a mook. Sneeze at him and his neck will break ;) Yes, orcs definitely lead a vicious lifestyle, but that doesn't mean the physically strongest, or most battle-proficient survive. Neither saves you from a dagger in the back. It also means that a lot of them don't live long enough to acquire a lot of experience in open battle. As such, I'd argue against super-human attributes for orcs. The likes of Uruk-Hai etc. might match the best humans can field, but that's stretching things already, IMO.

Regarding equipment, I know of no evidence that plate armor (other than helmets obviously) exists. Given the level of technology needed to create it, it would certainly exist in Gondor, if it was around. We also don't see reference to it in a text Tolkien wrote at one point on the Disaster of the Gladden Fields, in which Numenorean exile military is described to some detail. Plate armor arose with the advent of water-driven smithies and blast furnaces, and there is no evidence for them in Middle-Earth, and whether volcanic forges such as Mount Doom would be used for such purposes I'd consider doubtful.

For the same reason, I'd be careful with greatswords, though crude types prone to breaking might perhaps exist.

First its all good points you are giving, and i can't argue against it.

But im almost only inpired by the move, and how i wanna use them in my game. i think we all have different views on how orcs are.
even tolkien sometimes tell conflicting points about them.

And yes my orcs are weak if you look at the Human soldier in OBaM.
and about the weapons i have taken almost from the movies, and i have added some extra who i think is orcish!

About armour, i can again only say i like the movies and have tryed to give them what armour i think was nessesary and seems likely they would use. and i think that i have read a chapter that the orcs was marching out of Ankmar wearing heavy armour, but maybe it was only in the Tolkien Besterium by David Day i read it.

Irmo wrote:
Regarding equipment, I know of no evidence that plate armor (other than helmets obviously) exists. Given the level of technology needed to create it, it would certainly exist in Gondor, if it was around. We also don't see reference to it in a text Tolkien wrote at one point on the Disaster of the Gladden Fields, in which Numenorean exile military is described to some detail. Plate armor arose with the advent of water-driven smithies and blast furnaces, and there is no evidence for them in Middle-Earth, and whether volcanic forges such as Mount Doom would be used for such purposes I'd consider doubtful.

For the same reason, I'd be careful with greatswords, though crude types prone to breaking might perhaps exist.

[MKF]Kapten wrote:
I think it's not unreasonable to assume that Saruman had at least watermills and and blast furnaces. I think that the parts about Saruman in LotR was an allegory of the industrial society that Tolkien wasnt so fond of.

Well that's true but I cant see what Saruman would produce with all that machinery if it wasnt weapons (considering that he was at war and everything). And why bother with machinery if you are just arming your men with bows and swords?

This is no proof more than my other comment but this isnt a court AFAIK so I just go by my common sense ~~.

[MKF]Kapten wrote: Well that's true but I cant see what Saruman would produce with all that machinery if it wasnt weapons (considering that he was at war and everything). And why bother with machinery if you are just arming your men with bows and swords?

This is no proof more than my other comment but this isnt a court AFAIK so I just go by my common sense ~~.

In the fellowship one of the hobbits killed a orc was it merry i dont rember its been like 8 years. But anyway gandalf said something like many men dont kill there first orc and get away with it or something.
Perhaps this is an indication of there combat prowes.

Also i agree with the orc darwinism that the best smartest fastest orcs are likely to survive and puting a knfe in another orcs back is defintly cunning.
I think this kindof thinking is an indication ofthe orcs marital Skill.

Dwarfs has been added in the above url under my signature.
plus rules to create a player character like i want it.

give it a review