Topic: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
Started by: Deacon Blues
Started on: 3/26/2004
Board: The Riddle of Steel
On 3/26/2004 at 10:45pm, Deacon Blues wrote:
How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
Pretty much sums it up right there.
On 3/26/2004 at 10:52pm, Irmo wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
I've got no experience with them, but I figure one possible way would be to rest the blade over your shoulder with the handle up, stabilizing it with one hand, and slipping the sheath on with the other. Once you have it in a bit, the rest is child's play: Hold the sheath with one hand, and glide the blade in with the other.
On 3/26/2004 at 11:01pm, Blankshield wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
Carefully.
More seriously, I suspect most big honkin' swords like this were carried in harness, across the back or on a mount.
On 3/27/2004 at 12:30am, Tash wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
I've never seen a sheath for one, but pictures of the Swiss and Germanic troops who originally used them often show the trooper wearing a heavy baldric, so I wound guess they were carried on the back in a half sheath much like that guy with the Claymore in Braveheart wore his blade.
On 3/27/2004 at 2:18am, Malechi wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
For some reason I read that as "How do you Stealth a Dopplehander?"
I was thinking, With great bloody difficulty!
Jason K.
On 3/27/2004 at 2:36am, Salamander wrote:
Re: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
Deacon Blues wrote: Pretty much sums it up right there.
Yeah, you don't. You carry it over your shoulder bare bladed.
On 3/27/2004 at 4:00am, Jake Norwood wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
Seriously...
Sheathing it, like unsheathing it (if such a thing even has a sheath, honestly) is done in front of the body with both hands while not wearing the thing. The entire idea of drawing or sheathing any weapon longer than 30" on the back is absurd.
Make sense?
Jake
On 3/27/2004 at 4:23am, Tash wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
In regards to the character I mentioned before (the guy in Braveheart with the huge Claymore). He is clearly shown in one scene taking the baldric from over his shoulder, holding the scabbard (which actually covers only the bottom half of the blade) in front of him, and drawing the sword before a battle.
So I have to agree with Jake that this is how you'd sheath a dopplehander, if in fact you do sheath one. Its entirely reasonable to thing swords that large had to be carried unsheathed at all times given that the tip would be nearly scrapping the ground if worn over the shoulder of many men.
On 3/27/2004 at 2:23pm, Irmo wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
Tash wrote: So I have to agree with Jake that this is how you'd sheath a dopplehander, if in fact you do sheath one. Its entirely reasonable to thing swords that large had to be carried unsheathed at all times given that the tip would be nearly scrapping the ground if worn over the shoulder of many men.
If it were, I'd say it would be the wrong size for the man ;)
On 3/27/2004 at 4:00pm, murazor wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
This reminds me of a scene from 'Conan The Barbarian'. When Conan, Subotai and Valeria sneaks into the Mountain of Power to rescue the princess, they carry their swords strapped to their backs. But once they have reached the throne room we see them unstrapping the sheats and reattaching them to their belts, reflecting that drawing - not to mention resheathing - blade from a back-worn sheath is very awkward.
On 3/27/2004 at 6:06pm, Jürgen Mayer wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
Irmo wrote: If it were, I'd say it would be the wrong size for the man ;)
Yup, the custom size of a claymore is from the toes of the wielder to his solar plexus, IIRC.
On sheathing/carrying such a sword: I've never seen a sheath for such a big sword, but I know of a carrying device: it's made of leather and carried like a backpack - it has no sheath, only a sturdy broad leather strip. You have to stick the sword in there while not wearing it, then wear it like a backpack. If you want to draw it, you hold the sword at the hilt behind your head with one hand, and the other grabs a long leather cord that is connected to an opening mechanism which sets the blade free. Quick and useful. There's a guy making and selling those things around here.
On 3/27/2004 at 11:23pm, Tash wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
Jürgen Mayer wrote: If you want to draw it, you hold the sword at the hilt behind your head with one hand, and the other grabs a long leather cord that is connected to an opening mechanism which sets the blade free.
Now that sounds just plain cool!
On 3/28/2004 at 12:40pm, Starshadow wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
Just a note about the lenght of swords mentioned here:
Tash wrote:
So I have to agree with Jake that this is how you'd sheath a dopplehander, if in fact you do sheath one. Its entirely reasonable to thing swords that large had to be carried unsheathed at all times given that the tip would be nearly scrapping the ground if worn over the shoulder of many men.
Irmo wrote:
If it were, I'd say it would be the wrong size for the man ;)
Yup, the custom size of a claymore is from the toes of the wielder to his solar plexus, IIRC.
Remember, the Doppelhander and the Claymore are different types of swords. The Claymore was usually about 50-60" long, while a Doppelhander was usually over 6'.
As an example, take a look at some Great Landsknecht swords.
On 3/28/2004 at 10:52pm, Irmo wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
Starshadow wrote: Just a note about the lenght of swords mentioned here:
Remember, the Doppelhander and the Claymore are different types of swords. The Claymore was usually about 50-60" long, while a Doppelhander was usually over 6'.
As an example, take a look at some Great Landsknecht swords.
Here's an example of one:
http://bjorn.foxtail.nu/vm_2h_eng.htm
Zweihänders by no means were "usually over 6' " rather, that was at the high end, and 5' 6" is a much more reasonable length. A sword over 6' in length would be barely usable in battle by anyone but a giant of a man. While some weapons up to 78" exist, these are so heavy (12-13lbs) that they are unlikely to be weapons for actual use, but likely purely ceremonial, in my opinion.
Cf. http://www.palus.demon.co.uk/Sword_Stats.html
This lists the stats for all Zweihänders in the collection of the Graz arsenal, and you will see that most are in fact below 72" in length (which would translate to 6')
There is merely a handful of blades that are above 72" and have a weight that I'd consider swingable for any length of time. There are, however, even Zweihänders as short as 57"
On 3/30/2004 at 3:28am, Turin wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
Lets also not forget that a middle ages man was somewhat shorter than todays average height. I think 5'5" was about the norm (not sure where I read it from). So a 67" blade would be about the height of a man
On 3/30/2004 at 5:03am, Irmo wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
http://www.aemma.org/misc/aemma-faqs_body.html#tall
On 3/30/2004 at 2:28pm, Eamon wrote:
Using cinema as a research tool?
A number of people have quoted sheathing methods from cinema such as Braveheart and Conan.
Personally, once I began to learn about melee weapons, I've always laughed at whatever cinema has done, unless it was the dramatic iai-jitsu duels in classic Japanese cinema (Sanjuro comes to mind), and even then...
Considered the gross innaccuracy of Braveheart, the fantastical nature of Conan, why are people quoting them as references? Sure, they may look cool, but that is the point of whatever method they are using. Merely to look cool, and certainly not to be utilitarian.
I would go with real historical reference, or available period art. The 'baldric' or some sort of rifle-style sling makes sense, in my humble opinion, because you can yank the doppelhander off your back real quick. Which is useful for going through doors, walking through groves of trees, making sure you don't hit your comrades in dense groups, and wacking your enemy with it while the doppelhander is sheathed when you are ambushed.
On 3/30/2004 at 3:15pm, Turin wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
I agree, Eamon. Kind of like using Rambo as a historical reference for the Vietnam war.
On 3/30/2004 at 4:18pm, Muggins wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
Most longer swords were strictly for battle, and were often carried on pack horses until required. One text (Marozzo?) shows a large twohander carried with the pommel resting in the hand and the blade against the shoulder. We known that claymores were carried similarly, wrapped in water-proofed muslin or leather.
As for the length and 'wieldability', even a big sword is useable- in surprising ways...
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29225&highlight=zweihander
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=837&highlight=zweihander
James
On 3/30/2004 at 9:06pm, Irmo wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
Muggins wrote: Most longer swords were strictly for battle, and were often carried on pack horses until required. One text (Marozzo?) shows a large twohander carried with the pommel resting in the hand and the blade against the shoulder. We known that claymores were carried similarly, wrapped in water-proofed muslin or leather.
As for the length and 'wieldability', even a big sword is useable- in surprising ways...
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29225&highlight=zweihander
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=837&highlight=zweihander
James
Note that the Landsknecht twohanded sword you used is considerably less than 6', and considerably less than 10lbs. Cf. also the statement by Peter Lyon in the thread.
On 3/31/2004 at 3:15pm, Muggins wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
The bottom thread is about two years old, and my understanding of things has changed a little. BTW, Peter Lyon is the guy who forged the Lord of the Rings' swords. Discussed a custom piece with him several times before work commitments caught up with him.
The top thread is more entertaining in some ways- especially the "run sideways and collect the opposing pikes".
Me I am primarily a German longsword man. But the bigger swords are very, very cool...
James
On 4/1/2004 at 7:19pm, Eamon wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
I'm thinking...
A bag of holding would be perfect for sheathing a doppelhander! LOL!
On 4/1/2004 at 9:05pm, Richard_Strey wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
There *was* something like that back in AD&D 2nd Ed.; basically a "sheath of holding" that could house anything from dagger to large sword while being the size of a dagger-sheath. I kid ye not. :)
On 4/3/2004 at 10:23pm, Brian Leybourne wrote:
RE: How Do You Sheath A Doppelhander?
Eamon wrote: A bag of holding would be perfect for sheathing a doppelhander! LOL!
No it wouldn't; as I recall, bad things happened if you pierced the fabric of the bag by putting sharp or pointy things in it unsheathed :-)
Brian.