So, I've been talking to a number of people "in the industry" lately (whatever the flying-fuck THAT means)... and I've seen this startling, and horrifying notion: people are still making d20 products, and people are still making white wolf products. I do not understand. Aside from the ability to push the product into the middle tier of the marketplace, there is nothing to indicate any sort of viability, or profitability, of the d20 license. Why do we keep flooding the shelves with this shit? And, when I state that, I realize that some of you may feel that my views of d20 are an inflammatory opinion... sure, but trust me, it definitely sucks, and one day, you will understand just how horrifyingly old this system and gaming mindset is.

I used to despise any game with a skill list. I still do. Added (I always thought this was intuitive, but apparently, it need be stated) to this list of absolute horror in game design is anything describing how fast I can walk under different encumberances, subsystems of climbing, swimming, or (my personal favorite) convincing someone to listen to you when they don't want to. Seriously, the guy at McDonald's couldn't give a shit less about me or my order, he definitely falls under the "indifferent", and possibly "hostile", category of interaction and reaction chart... so, do I need to be 10th level to place an order?

So, tell me... what are your personal "OH DEAR GAWD! NOT AGAIN!" traits of game design.

My list is long, I admit:
skill lists, stupid subsystems, pointless social interaction rules, any attribute+skill vs. X boring and redundant system. Generally, any game that exists that covers material and concepts that have been covered, ad nauseum by hundreds of other games (seriously, who really thinks that their idea of ten races, twelve classes, and this special way of handling horsemanship is going to have ANY goddamn impact at all).

What you got?

Dav

Weapons lists (particularly those that are obviously picked from the Facts on File History of Weapons). For that matter, the whole notion of assigining nit-picky differences to the damage-inflicting ability of weapons.

Ability subsystems that provide a laundry list without any clearly defined metarules (i.e. Feats, Class Features in D20)

F.A.T.A.L.

And also, lots of excessive system-creep that will slow down my GMing/playing. (You've sort of hit most of the ones.)

Traditional point-buy with gifts/flaws (i.e. GURPS, CORPS, EABA, TriStat...) still has scarred me, since that game where a player got 50 points for taking a "Major Enemy" flaw with... UNICEF.

Fat design.

You know what I mean - systems that have anything in them that they could survive without.

People who don't "get it" on some level.

I was in this Star Wars game recently, where the other players never realized that in order to get the game to "feel like Star Wars" they have to choose to have the characters act like people do in Star Wars. To me, this seems so basic. They ended up shooting the evil Jedi full of tranquilizers BEFORE the climactic confrontation scene! That wouldn't happen in Star Wars! Where's the climactic confrontation scene?!

Support of Color is a group-based thing! If you're not going to buy in to playing Star Wars then why bother trying to play Star Wars!

"In this game, you play a being beyond human. You're one of the Immortals; that is to say, you are highly vulnerable to certain forces that can cause your current state of existence to end (if you run out of hit points), but we don't call that "dying," so technically, you're immortal. You're also enormously powerful. However, you are only one of a vast number of beings like yourself, most of them even more enormously powerful than you, and they've all formed a massive, complex, and highly regimented hierarchy, and oh dear, tough break, looks like you're at the bottom of it. Again. Ready for your first mission briefing?"

- Walt

Walt, that was beautiful.

"It's world mythology but, see, we've made it cooler by making it sanitized and trying to classify it and added lots of Celtic sounding names."

You are not cooler than thousands of years of human storytelling culture. Shut the fuck up.

yrs--
--Ben

"Oh, by the way, everything is European save one Asian who is a martial artist, and one Arab who is a bad-ass. And perhaps a North American mystic. Maybe. Southern Hemisphere? Never heard of it."

Ben, I tragically missed the reference; let me in on the joke please?

Dev wrote: Ben, I tragically missed the reference; let me in on the joke please?

I have the bitter taste of "Attribute plus Skill" in my mouth. I just like to see people come up with something, ANYTHING, new.

Games with the Combat System spelled out to the nines over a series of dozens of pages. Resolving "Everything Else" gets a paragraph or footnote at the end of the list of skills, and involves tons of GM fiat (where the combat has None).

Combat systems that try to be realistic. Riddle of Steel is the only one that slips past that 'annoyance' of mine because it is an RPG ABOUT realistic combat. Anything else, I prefer a system that lets me do Blade 2 style fights. Even in a gritty Babylonian low-magic setting. Anything else that tries to be any more realistic than, say, Unknown Armies, goes immediately back on the shelf.

Spells. Freaking spell lists inspired by D&D where every gosh darn spell is its own set of rules. Superpowers, psionic powers, disciplines, the whole ball of crap works the same way! Patches and new rules.

I want principles I can apply when needed! Not yet another freakin table!!

The ubiquitous race of cat people. At least elves and dwarves don't show up in every SF game as well.

Usesless attributes and other character benchmarks that are not essential to play of the particular game. Usually put in for "realism." The whole idea that narritivist style play will somehow arise spontaneously from a sim engine. Finally the whole "This is the one right way to role play" thing.