Hello people i wanna do some work for the a samurai setting, using riddle of steel, and then i just want to know if some other people did know a good thread already posted, or have some sugjestions that i can work with?

so far i have read that a samurai armour actually is somekind of plate armour, where the plates are part of a "leather suit". and that in later periods ex. the chest armour was very much like an "european" chest plate.

and that a normal samurai sword simply was not very armour penetration.

so first of all i need to discuss samurai armours and the samurai sword and how it should work.

oh! good web link i would like, im such an idiot finding pages on the net

It depends on what era Samurai you are talking about. Assuming the traditional western concept of the Samurai which dates from the Edo period (roughly the early 1600s through the late 19th century) I would give the armor an AV of 5 and a CP loss of 2. My reasoning here is that, while composed of plate, it was segmented rather than articulated. Essentially it was partial plate held together with leather instead of solid forged peices. In my mind that would make it more protective than chain, but not as protective as full plate. However its CP penaly should be the same as full plate because it really isn't easy to move in tradtional armor.

Early armor, or the armor worn by less weathy members of the Samurai was made of leather and wood. I'd give it an AV of 3 and a CP of -1, for the same reasons.

As for the Katana, I'd use the same stats as a sabre for damage, with the ATN and DTN of a fine longsword. My reasoning here: katanas rely on fast drawing cuts (thrusting is not what they are designed for) for damage. Drawing cuts do almost nothing against metal, so the scaled damage seems appropriate. Katanas are close in size to a longsword and are capable of many of the same moves, but are popularly (and arguably) considered to be better forged than your average European sword, hence making them all count as fine.

For the wakizashi I'd use the following stats: Damage Str+1(scaling down with armor types as above) for cut, Str for thrust. ATN 5 for cut, 6 for thrust, DTN 6. Not too different from a short sword, just altered damage.

The ARMA has a neat and rather famous comparison between the Samurai and the European knight here, it may give you some more ideas:

http://www.thearma.org/essays/knightvs.htm

I have also read that essay!

Thanks for helping, i think that ALL what you have written is very good!

Becouse this is a RPG, im thinking on not so much to rely on the accurate time period, therefor im going to have light, medium, and heavy "samurai" armour.

I think that the SA system is PERFECT to be used in a samurai enviroment.

Anyway i will come up with a .pdf tomorrow with the first of my idea, then please judge again.

Argh, not to forget.....muskets was part of the Late samurai period, and these will ofcourse be included, but is there someone here who know things about muskets and which types the "samurai" used?
and then help me making stats for them, this is what i think is going to be the hardest.

Well have read that blackpowder firearms weren't used by the Samurai themselves because they felt them to be dishonorable. Instead they were used by ranks of foot troops. This could well be false however, as I've seen pictures of muskets and pistols that were owned by high ranking Samurai, though weather they were owned as status symbols or used in battle I can't say.

For your campaign though you can easily define specific sub castes of Samurai who might or might not use firearms. Another idea would be to have their use be tied to each individual Samurai's interpretation and comitment to the bushido.

As far as stats go, there have been many threads here on black powder firearms, doa quick search and you should get an abundance of ideas.

Arquebus vs musket, whats the difference?

bergh wrote: Arquebus vs musket, whats the difference?

Irmo.....THANKS! short but 101% useable answer!

i'm currently working on a Japanese setting however it specifically doesn't deal with Samurai as a focus. Katanapunk is based more on kabukimono gangs, sword schools and emerging middle-class during the mid-/late-Edo period. It uses Edo circa 1790's as the main setting.

Jake is also working on a Japanese sourcebook, though I get the feeling its more of an all-purpose Japanese book that applies to Tengoku in the TROS setting.

Let me know if you're interested in what we've got thus far..

cheers

Jason K.

So far my plans are to just make weapons, armour and such, maybe special fighthing school, all the rest we will just imagine.

anyway one of the players got some source books for the Legend of the 5 Rings RPG, which are in a somehow fantasy-samurai setting.

According to Miyamoto Musashi's Book of Five Rings the gun was used by samurai, but like the spear and all other weapons was considered a tool rather than a weapon. Only the katana and the wakazashi were considered weapons.. Though, admittedly, these could have been Musashi's personal biases.

But katana are not, unless I'm gravely misinformed, generally the same size as a longsword. They were two handed weapons, but were not quite so long. That is to say, my boken is not nearly so long as any of the longswords I've seen measurements for, and my aikido instructor says that the boken is a fairly accurate model (in wood, of course) of the dimensions of the katana. The Nodachi is more along the lines of what I'd consider the equivalent to the longsword.

The are shorter but still in roughly the same size class for game purposes, i.e bigger than most arming swords, but smaller than greatswords.

Every "real" katana I've seen is about the size of an arming sword (with possibly a shorter blade and a longer handle). The japanese, you'll remember, were smaller than the europeans, who were themselves smaller than modern americans.

Jake

I guess I am underestimating the size of arming swords...or overestimating the size of "real" Katana. The only ones I've ever trained with have been sized for large Americans like myself. My boken are all around 45" and my actual katana is 48", but as Jake pointed out there weren't a lot of 6'3" swordsmen in feudal Japan.

Large americans 6'3" haha

Here where i live that just abit over avarange
im 6" tall and im considered not at tall as the average men, but i have robust building instead hehe.

bergh wrote: im 6" tall and im considered not at tall as the average men, but i have robust building instead hehe.

lol 6 feet yes,

anyways the length of the katana dont surprice me, anything less would only be a sharp butter knife :)

I have read several places that the length of the katana was different in each time period and even region of japan.
I can imagine that each sword was specific made to what the user prefered.

There is a fair amount of variety in Katana length, but in general they are 13th- 14th C arming sword length for the blade, with a long handle.

The major point of interest for me is in the mechanics of the cut. Cutting with a katana is quite different to a longsword- the optimal use of the curve is a blow much closer to the body than that used with a longsword. (The curve maintains contact with the target longer, producing a slicing cut). In that way, a properly swung katana is arguably a better cutter than a European longsword, at the expense of range and flexibility. Not that I would ever swap any of my swords for a katana, but adding the odd oriental weapon to the collection has an appeal...

James

I have vague ideas of eventually studying both western martial arts (probably longsword) and continuing my eastern, with some emphasis on various sword techniques.

The weapons and the styles are in detail vastly different. I cannot really speak for western styles, only having had about an hour's worth of pointers from Jake to speak from, but I know that eastern sword techniques emphasized timing, speed, and fluidity. This is the purpose of the kata, to train muscle memory so you can move without thought from a particular pose to parry and strike in the same movement.

...and that's exactly what German Langsword is about, as well. If you lack in either timing, sense of distance, fluidity of movement or mind, reflex or muscle memory, your career as a swordsman will be cut short.

I think that's pretty much every combatic art, from swordfighting to ju-jitsu to close quarter handgun techniques. Its the individual movements that differ.

"One thing that needs to be addressed first is probably my biggest button: Japanese armour was never made of wood or bamboo. It was either leather, steel, or a combination of the two. Don’t even ask me."

From:

http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/

Bastoche wrote: "One thing that needs to be addressed first is probably my biggest button: Japanese armour was never made of wood or bamboo. It was either leather, steel, or a combination of the two. Don’t even ask me."

ok people name me a good samurai movie i shall see.
i have 2 requriments:

1. It shall be a colour movie, no B/W please.

2. There should be LOTS of samurai armour in it.!
not just guys with katanas (yes i have an armour fetish).

3. Large battles. ok this is not a requirement, but i prefer large battles.

can anyone help me?

Well I just saw The Last Samurai and its a good flick. I don't know about its plot's historical accuracy but the battle scenes are impressive and there is lots of armor.

Akira Kurosawa, director:

Ran (King Lear as a samurai flick)
Kagemusha (about a daimyo's double)

Ran is overrated, if you ask me, but then again it's often said to be one of the greatest films ever or something. It's wonderful, but the best?

Kagemusha is really amazing, though. And there are some battles in which you can feast your eyes. The cinematography and color are stunning.

Have fun. More armor than you could shake a stick at.

Tash wrote: My boken are all around 45" and my actual katana is 48"...

If it's 48", I think we're talking about a daikatana. There's a moment in Seven Samurai when you actually see what this thing is for: a bandit riding by gets chopped out of the saddle by a man on foot swinging a humongous blade.

just read about those two movies on imdb.com, and they seem find, think i will get em, i hope not im getting addictede to Akira K.....

sounds like its too late to turn back now bergh. The road of a Kurosawa junkie is a long and.... no i won't go on.. must ..resist urge to watch Hidden Fortress.. one .. more time....


for those who don't know yet.. Hidden Fortress is Starwars is Hidden Fortress... .damn you George Lucas!

*ahem*

Hidden Fortress=star Wars.....oh my....im glad i don't understand this

You know someone told me that Star Wars was, ummmm, borrowed from a Kurosawa film. Except they told me it was Seven Samurai....when I saw that film I was really confused because I saw nothing reminding me of Star Wars....

OK I think a Kurosawa festival is in order this weekend!


As for my katana, the blade is about 36" with the handle being roughly 12" I know this is exceptionally long for a katana. The reason for this is that most of my swordsmanship training is not in Kendo or Kenjutsu but in a Korean style called Shim Gum Do. Shim Gum Do is a one handed style that uses the extra length of the handle for parries in certain moves. So when I was looking for an actual sword I got one with a really big handle. That in turn left me with a very large overall sword, which prabably could be called a daikatana. Honestly I don't know where the distinction lies and I can certainly use it the way I was taught to use a katana.
However its not the largest katana I've seen. I had a copy of "Book of the Five Rings" a few years ago that was illustrated with various prints from a specific mural depicting some famous battle during Musashi's life. It had several pictures of samurai weilding a pair of katana that would probably have been larger than mine realative to their user. A good friend of mine is a quite dedicated (some would say obsessed) kedo practitioner as well and he uses a katana with a 36" blade and 10" grip, only a hair shorted than mine.
I'd like to get another katana soon as I want to start seriously studying sword again. However I'm torn between continuing eastern styles and joining the ARMA to learn longsword.

I'd like to get another katana soon as I want to start seriously studying sword again. However I'm torn between continuing eastern styles and joining the ARMA to learn longsword

In my Kobudo lessons (katori shito ryu + some "modern" iaijutsu schools) our bokken are 42" long. I believe they are somewhat short compared to historical blades.

I may be wrong, but I guess the blade got shorter when the katana became more of a dueling weapon and less of a war weapon (somewhat similar to what happened with the short sword in the west). I don't know for certain.

Actually, thinking about it, there is one possible reason we are overlooking for the length of the blade.

George Silver, and a few other historical swordsmen, mention the perfect length of a blade being related to the size of the person- in his case, a smallsword should reach from the end of an arm streched sideways to the opposite armpit. This is to do with your reach and the distance in which you can "uncross" or cut from one side of an opposing blade to another.

Hence, the varying length of katana blades may be due to the varying sizes of the wielders... Until someone came up with the bright idea of standardising things!

James