Topic: TROS is Greece
Started by: Sir Mathodius Black
Started on: 5/17/2004
Board: The Riddle of Steel
On 5/17/2004 at 2:03am, Sir Mathodius Black wrote:
TROS is Greece
After seeing the movie Troy (which, by the way, I thought was excellent), it got me thinking about the possibility of a ROS campaign set in a world similar to the mediteranian with aspects of cultures (mainly Greek) from around 1200 BC (The Trojan War) to around 300-200 BC (Pelopenesian Wars and early Emergance of Rome).
Any ideas as far as nations and their nationality modifiers would be great. Im thinking of basing the nations in this world closely to real ones that existed and having their attributes reflect their history.
Any suggestions/ideas welcomed and appreciated.
Thanks,
SMB
On 5/17/2004 at 3:05am, bergh wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
You will still need a Spear and Shield Style.....which is missing in the book....hehe..
anyway great idea.......im first gonna see the movie sometime this week...i envy you...
On 5/17/2004 at 3:16am, Valthalion wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
Troy was excellent. I am really surprised that they followed the outline of the Iliad so closely. I noticed that they had to redeem Achilles and Paris (not Ancient Greek thought at all) And they certainly detheoligised it.
That probably your first decision in dealing with Greek History. Pre 5th century Greek history is mythology. The Iliad has the gods involved right there in the battle. Turning spears. Aphrodite is wounded by an arrow. The movie took stance to make it a "historical" rather than a fantasy movie. It did pay some lip service to the gods, Achilles meets his mother (the goddess Thetis) I recall in the Iliad she came out of the sea to give him the choice of fame or long life.
One of my players suggested that I should do a Greek Mythology campaign (as I am a Classical Greek major) and I thought for the first time ever I've seen a game that could do it. I would just make the gods characters under the rules. Vagaries to the max etc. But not infinite,omnipotent, omniscient omnipresent. (Odysseus can leave the island of Circe because Poseidon, who hates him has gone to feast with the Ethiopians (from the top of my head)
Anyway for Pre Hellenistic greek TROS you need to work out rules for the shield wall. Spear and shield proficency.
Mycanean Greek (Homeric) tended to have one to one combat a lot (hence the Iliad heroes)
Later Greek history with the polis tended to have communal warfare with the hoplite (citizen soldiers) So you get the rugby scrum hoplite battles with the shield wall etc.
This is perfected by Philip of Macedon an hence his son Alexander the Great in the phalanx with its 16 rank deep formation with 6 yard long pikes (sarissa).
Anyway I think we need flower of battle for massed engagements. You also need big shields. Mycenean shields are depicted as being taller and wider than the man. (It was thought that you actually placed them in the ground sort of like a mobile then fought behind it. The Iliad also depicts archers hiding behind the big shields and the shield bearer opening it up for them when they are ready to fire.
Well just some jumbled thoughts
Valthalion
On 5/17/2004 at 3:37am, bergh wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
Mycenean! hellenic, pre hellenic ancient greece, before 5th century.....
HELLO! i need a time line? and now i got a person who know about such things. would you not be so kind to make a time line of the "greek periods" with names and year?
It would help me ALOT.
PS: if you don't answer here i will continue to bug you over PM......:-)
On 5/17/2004 at 4:14am, Tash wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
http://courses.wcupa.edu/jones/his101/TIMELINE/T-GREEK.HTM
Do a quick google search for Greek+history+timeline
Don't remember much about greek history, being a music comp major I'm kind of procrastinating on Western Civ I.
On 5/17/2004 at 4:53am, Caz wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
I've been considering the same thing. For the spear and shield prof. I don't think there's a need to make a new one up. Sword and mass weapon both have shield dropped in, just say spear counts for shield too.
For combat in formation, no new rules need apply, just common sense. Battle skill, shields help protect your neighbor, you can only attack and be attacked from certain directions, and your own mobility and maneuver considerations, etc.
On 5/17/2004 at 6:19am, Edge wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
the first thing i see when i open up the boards today is a post on TROS in Greece :)
it was one of the things i was thinking about during the film, how to convert to TROS
would be a pretty good thing to work on and fun to play in.
On 5/17/2004 at 8:02am, Valthalion wrote:
Sorry about my unexplained ravings
bergh wrote: Mycenean! hellenic, pre hellenic ancient greece, before 5th century.....
HELLO! i need a time line? and now i got a person who know about such things. would you not be so kind to make a time line of the "greek periods" with names and year?
It would help me ALOT.
Woops
Too much technical information
The area of Greece was ruled by a warlike civilisation called the Mycenean civilisation from about 1500 - 1200 BC. Great fortified cities which later Greeks described as having Cyclopean walls (Ie the rocks were so big that they were built by Cyclopes) The most famous one is at Mycenae.
http://www.culture.gr/2/21/211/21104a/e211da01.html
This is the period in which the Trojan War happened. In 1200 BC there was a great destruction around the whole middle east. The Mycenean civilisation was destroyed, the Hittites (in Turkey) were destroyed, we have the great sea people invasions of Egypt and Palestine. The Greeks went into their "dark age" The Greek history and culture was kept alive by the poets (there was no writing in this time) About 600 BC writing was invented and the poet Homer was convinced to write down the two epic poems which had been kept alive by their repetition, namely the Iliad and the Odyssey. The Iliad is the basis for the movie Troy. It is the first written work of Western European civilisation.
After the Dark Ages we have a period of great intellectual development from the Greeks. 5th century BC. This is the time of the playwrights Sophocles Euripedes and Aeschylus, the philosophers Socrates and Plato. The historians Herodotus and Thucydides. The time of Athenian ascendancy. Greece is divided into city states. The polis. Early in the period they have a war with the great empire of the middle east at this time Persia. The Greeks strength is their navy and their heavy infantry. This is the time of the 300 Spartans and 50000 Persians at the batlle of Thermopylae. The time of the great naval battle of Salamis.
Late in this period we have the Peloponesian war between the Athenian Hegemony and the Spartan Kingdom
In the fourth century BC we have the rise of the Macedonians under Philip II and his Son Alexander the Great. Alexander not only conquers Greece but also Persia all the way to India. This is known as the Hellenistic era as the entire Mediteranean all the way to India came under the dominance of Greek culture. The Greeks had colonies from Spain to India.
The Hellenisitc Era ends in 146BC when the Romans take Greece with the sacking of Corinth.
Thats a thumbnail of Greek History before the Romans.
Regards
Valthalion
On 5/17/2004 at 6:46pm, Sir Mathodius Black wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
Valthalion, because of your knowledge of Greek History (and I presume you also have some about other mediteranean cultures of the time), what nationality modifiers might the greeks have had if put into ROS terms, i.e., Spartans have bonuses similar to that of Gelure because of their military based culture, or Athens having some bonus because of their navy and politics ect.
On 5/17/2004 at 7:59pm, Valamir wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
At the time of Troy? None really. There wasn't really much of a national identity at the time. Cities and the surrounding lands were really just the personal property of the kings who kept them until someone with a bigger army came and took them away.
More important by far was family lineage. Everyone knows that Achilles is the son of the mighty warrior Pelleus and his sea nymph mother Thetis. That's far more important then geography.
If you're going to do modifiers like that, I'd recommend a system where they can be randomly generated representing bloodline influences. In fact, if you want to get really into it, you could hook that up to a random name generator, generate the character's lineage back a couple generations and randomly determine the modifiers for the ancestors.
On 5/17/2004 at 8:54pm, Irmo wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
In a heroic campaign, the issue also needs to be addressed whether to allow, and to what extent, characters with divine bloodline. I wonder if an A priority is enough to describe a son of Zeus, though it might for example be offset by adding a major flaw of having incurred the hatred of another god of similar power. ('Well, yes, you are a son of Zeus, but he has a wee bit trouble keeping track of all of his offspring. On the other hand, Poseidon, he REALLY wants to feed yo to the fishes" ;) )
On 5/17/2004 at 9:27pm, Tash wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
Doesn't Greek literature usually give heroic characters a great flaw that eventually prooves their doom?
On 5/17/2004 at 11:58pm, Sir Mathodius Black wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
Yes, i believe thats their hubris, which i think means overbloan arrogance or something like that. For achillies it was his heal (although i dont think his amazing arrogance helped either)
However, for nationality modifiers, they might be less of temporal and more mental. For example, SPartans might get -1 Soc, and/or the bad rep flaw since most other greeks hated and feared them. THats just one example though.
I also like the idea of Priority A as divine blood line and the idea ofd randomly generated bloodlines as well. Thats something that might be worth digging a little deeper into.
On 5/18/2004 at 12:03am, Jake Norwood wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
I would be tempted to steal the Pendragon "Family Trait" inheritance mechanic almost whole-sale to represent famous bloodlines.
Jake
On 5/18/2004 at 1:48am, Sir Mathodius Black wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
Im not familiar with that system or game. Whats the gist of it?
On 5/18/2004 at 9:46am, ZenDog wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
Here's something I've been toying with for Savage Worlds, not sure if these idea's would translate to TRoS but it's kind of relevant.
Title: Pantheon
Genre: Heroic Fantasy
Description: Pantheon is a world of Heroic Greek fantasy, concerning itself more with the adventures of heroes than the politics of the city states. The world of Pantheon is not historical Greece.
All the PC’s in Pantheon are humans who, instead of starting with a free edge, start with either of the Arcane Backgrounds ‘Godling’ or ‘Hero’. A Godling is the offspring of a God and a mortal, whilst a Hero is one who is favoured, and cursed by the Gods in equal measure.
Godlings' have gifts (Edges and Powers) corresponding to the Godly parent, who will also act on their behalf, but jealous Gods may oppose them.
Heroes are favoured by all the Gods. Heroes may invoke any God at any time they wish, and the God will come to their aid.
The favour of the Gods is not without its price. The Pantheon are a jealous lot and their relationships are fraught with tension and conflict.
The more his immortal parent helps a Godling, the more resentful the other Gods become. The more favour a Hero shows one God, the more displeasure the rival Gods take.
Angry Gods may oppose Heroes or Godlings, in many ways. Through their earthly minions, be they monstrous or mundane, or through forces of fate and nature.
Godling gifts are dependant on who their immortal parent is and are a permanent boon. Heroes on the other hand must invoke a particular God when they require help.
Example: Kleitos is travelling the Isthmus Road when he is attacked by bandits, he is out numbered six to one, fearing for his life he invokes Ares God of war. Ares answers his call and Kleitos is suddenly imbued with the power of Ares, growing in stature and glowing with Olympian might.
Invocation of Ares:
Powers: Boost: Strength, Fighting and Intimidate by one die type, Lower: Spirit and Guts by one die type, Smite
Edges: Improved Frenzy, Improved Sweep
Hindrances: Bloodthirsty, Mean, Vengeful.
Weakness: Ares is a coward and a bully if the character possessed by Ares is wounded or shaken by another God possessed Wildcard, Ares will flee, running to Zeus in Olympus, where he will complain of the injustice of his wounding.
After a God has been invoked and helped the character, the God normally returns to Olympus, however sometimes they stick around and cause mayhem (random event type table?). Stay or go, there is always a price to pay once a God has been invoked.
A cornucopia of adventure.
The world of Pantheon is a world packed full of excitement and danger, and there is certainly plenty for Heroes to do. Questing on behalf of Gods, warring for city-states, or against the barbarians, or just travelling the known world, and beyond, clearing the Isthmus Road of bandits, looking for golden fleeces and slaying the fierce Minotaur.
There are many weird and wonderful creatures (and people) in the world of Pantheon. Some are numerous like the Centaurs, and satyrs, other are few in number like the Cyclopes and Gorgons. Others like the fabled Minotaur are singular. Once you have slain a solitary creature that’s it, it is gone from the world (unless of course someone were to find and open a certain box belonging to certain lady).
Oh and one more thing, don’t let the Centaurs at the wine.
Notes: I’m quite taken by this setting and might work it up some more. Not sure about the Godlings (don’t like the name for a start). I like the way the Heroes can favour and invoke lots of different Gods. I may remove the Godlings later.
Back on topic I think TRoS would work very well for a Troy game possibly even better for a game set during the period of the warring city states.
On 5/18/2004 at 1:04pm, Andrew Mure wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
This is a period I've thought about before as good for TROS. I'll share some of my ideas.
The time I'd be looking at in particular would BC 1200-900 and the region would be the eastern meditterrean. The other thing would be the cultural metaplot as I would like involve other peoples of this period other than the Mycenean greeks (the Isrealites and Egyptians in particular present plenty of good potential). As such I am determined that no people in the setting holds the absolute truth about the very shadowy gods, whose exact number is unknown and may have many names. One thing is known and that is that the gods are at war in the heavens and that they use mortals to fight their battles on earth...
The peoples I was thinking for the setting.
Egyptians - the somewhat waning superpower of the setting. Better starting wealth.
Hittites (includes the Trojans) - Are the best charioteers of the setting.
Isrealites - of the Book of Judges and start of Kings. Free profiency point in slinging and an extra point of Faith if they designate Yahwah.
Mycenean Greeks (also known as the Sea people and the Philistines)- Free profiency point in spear + shield, -1 on sailing, extra point in Destiny SA if Seneschal judges the destiny to be double edged.
Phoenicians (also known as the Canaanites) - Excellent traders, but worshippers of the bloodthristy Baal. +1 soc -1 on trade and sailing. Minor bad reputation towards individuals who see all Phoenicians as condoning human sacrifice.
Possibles
Babylon
Assyria
Minoean Greeks (also known as Atlanteans)
Numibian
Races
Blessed of the Gods- these are the ilk of Achilles, Samson and Gilgamesh, etc.
Servants of the Gods- These are the more human sized monsters of mythology such as nymphs, satyrs, the Minotaur and centaurs. It also represents the more human heroes.
Oracles, Magi and seers- The human gifted.
To work on - rules for fighting from a chariot.
On 5/18/2004 at 1:25pm, contracycle wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
Andrew Mure wrote:
Isrealites - of the Book of Judges and start of Kings. Free profiency point in slinging and an extra point of Faith if they designate Yahwah.
...
Phoenicians (also known as the Canaanites) - Excellent traders, but worshippers of the bloodthristy Baal. +1 soc -1 on trade and sailing. Minor bad reputation towards individuals who see all Phoenicians as condoning human sacrifice.
Probably both the later Phoenicians and the Israelites are subsets of 'Canaanite', but there are many opinions on this. I'm not sure its appropriate to assume Baal was unusually bloodthirsty for the period. Further, this prejudice against Phoenicians is probably Greek and later reproduced by the Romans (who employed it to justify the Punic wars) and so projectiung this back to the Mycenean might be inappropriate.
Mycenean Greeks (also known as the Sea people and the Philistines)-
Now those are both really contentious. I'm not averse to the Sea People being the Myceneans, but its much disputed. The Phoenicians are another candidate.
Egyptians - the somewhat waning superpower of the setting. Better starting wealth.
The Egyptians were also renowned for being the most religiously sophisticated state in this period, and into the Roman period.
Babylon
Assyria
Yes, whatever mesopotomian power is ascendent in the period would need to be there.
Numibian
I think you mean Numidians. I'm not sure they were noticeable until the later Carthaginian society employed them, but this was after the colonisation of the North African coast. at this time Phoenician settlements are probably limited to the Levant and Cyprus.
On 5/18/2004 at 2:46pm, Valamir wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
Mycenean Greeks (also known as the Sea people and the Philistines)-
Interesting connections. I am far more familiar with the Phoenicians being the "sea people". I've never heard of them being possibly Greek. Likewise I've never even remotely heard of the Greeks being associated with the Philistines.
Do you have a source for that or is it a connection you've devised for purposes of the game world?
On 5/18/2004 at 6:43pm, tetsujin28 wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
Sir Mathodius Black wrote: Im not familiar with that system or game. Whats the gist of it?Really? Wow. Um, where to start.
I can't think of a game designer who's made a game with peronality mechanics (ok, any honest ones) that wasn't influened by Greg Stafford's Pendragon.
Pendragon is now owned by Green Knight. The Green Knight website is [URL=http://www.greenknight.com/products/rpg/whatiskap.shtml]here[/URL]. Normally I can talk all day about Pendragon, since I worked on some of it, but I had exams today and my hands are killing me.
On 5/18/2004 at 6:44pm, tetsujin28 wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
Valamir wrote:Well, Oliver Dickenson would never buy that.Mycenean Greeks (also known as the Sea people and the Philistines)-
Interesting connections. I am far more familiar with the Phoenicians being the "sea people". I've never heard of them being possibly Greek. Likewise I've never even remotely heard of the Greeks being associated with the Philistines.
Do you have a source for that or is it a connection you've devised for purposes of the game world?
On 5/18/2004 at 6:45pm, tetsujin28 wrote:
Re: TROS is Greece
Sir Mathodius Black wrote: After seeing the movie Troy (which, by the way, I thought was excellent)OK, now that I can't help you with ;-)
On 5/18/2004 at 9:38pm, Andrew Mure wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
Valamir wrote:Mycenean Greeks (also known as the Sea people and the Philistines)-
Interesting connections. I am far more familiar with the Phoenicians being the "sea people". I've never heard of them being possibly Greek. Likewise I've never even remotely heard of the Greeks being associated with the Philistines.
Do you have a source for that or is it a connection you've devised for purposes of the game world?
*Shruggs* Well there's bound to be a fair bit of debate about this period of history, mainly because most of the first person evidence is written under a time of stress and it is hard to separate fact from myth.
No one knows for sure exactly where the 'Sea people' came from, certainly not the Egyptian scribes who wrote tales about them. I have chosen the Myceneans to be the main grouping amongst the 'Sea Peoples' for a number of reasons.
1) Firstly the socialogical situation in Greece at the time resulting from the death throws of Mycenae civilisation had created a large number of dispossessed people hailing from a warlike culture. These refugees had a motive to go raiding and try and grab other people's lands.
2) The Myceneans also had the naval technology to mount such a raid, due to having learnt it from the Minoaens of Crete when their civilisation collapsed following the eruption of Santurini around 1450 BC.
3) The city believed to be Troy was a vassal state of the Hittite Empire, which was destroyed by the 'Sea People'. Incidently the events of the Illiad are traditionally dated at the same period as the height of the raids of the enigmatic 'Sea People'.
4) Neither Egyptian nor Hittite sources make any reference to the Mycenean civilisation. They are aware of the Baal worshiping Canaanites and the Phoenicians who later spring from them as both powers have been fighting over these lands. The Sea People are warlike strangers from across the sea.
5) There is no reference to 'Sea People' who ravaged the entire eastern Meditterrean coastline of the 'Fertile cresent' outside of Egyptian or Hittite records. Yet centuries later the Greeks are telling this tale how they 'launched a thousand ships' to go to war in the same area.
Of course this is all circumstantial evidence, but I reckon the Myceneans are a pretty strong suspect. The case for the Philistines being Mycenean is a weaker one and hangs mainly on the Myceneans also being the 'Sea people'.
The Old Testement makes no reference to the 'Sea People' despite them raiding lands which the Isrealites claimed as their own. Likewise it mentions the Philistines when no other sources do not and makes a clear distinction between them and the Phoenicians.
However my main interest in getting the tie in for the background is the 'supermen' warriors who appear on both sides in the battles between the Isrealites and the Philistines. Especially a certain philistine champion feared by all in battle who is killed a missile.
On 5/19/2004 at 12:07am, Turin wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
Of course this is all circumstantial evidence, but I reckon the Myceneans are a pretty strong suspect. The case for the Philistines being Mycenean is a weaker one and hangs mainly on the Myceneans also being the 'Sea people'.
I've read the pottery types among other archaeological evidence seems to link the Philistines to the Mycenaeans. I also think I recall reading somewhere that in addition to defeating the sea peoples, something was negotiated for them to take the lands the Philistines inhabit. The info is a bit hazy, please forgive my vagueness.
I have also read that the "look" of the sea peoples was similar to Celts of that period.
The other thing is there seems to be frequent mention of "blonde" myceneans, which does not seem to be similar to most medtiterreanean peoples.
Makes me wonder- I wonder if the "Greek" Myceneans could have been Celtic people who moved into the greek peninsula, and were later absorbed/forced out by the greek dark ages Doric invasions? Some things seem to fit. No written language, warlike, bronze age wepaoncrafting, chariots used in warfare...
Of course, the people now inhabiting greece are probably not a good example of even classical greek bloodlines, with turks, slavs, romans, etc mixing with the original population.
On 5/19/2004 at 1:09am, Valthalion wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
Turin wrote:
Makes me wonder- I wonder if the "Greek" Myceneans could have been Celtic people who moved into the greek peninsula, and were later absorbed/forced out by the greek dark ages Doric invasions? Some things seem to fit. No written language, warlike, bronze age wepaoncrafting, chariots used in warfare...
Actually the Mycaneans did have written language called Linear B. They clearly learnt the symbols from the Minoans (Linear A) The script was syllabic and had about 100 characters. The only writing found is in the destruction levels of Mycenean cities, were they used clay tablets to inscribe basically their accounting system. The tablets would have things like tripods 3 on them. Rather famously an ex WWII cryptographer discovered that it was all written in Greek. The Myceneans were Greeks. After the great destructions about 1200 BC (Possibly because of the eruption of Thera) they lost the ability to write. Then they relearnt it after the dark ages, using a Phonecian alphabet, not too different from the Latin one we use.
Valthalion
On 5/19/2004 at 1:46am, Valthalion wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
Valamir wrote:Mycenean Greeks (also known as the Sea people and the Philistines)-
Interesting connections. I am far more familiar with the Phoenicians being the "sea people". I've never heard of them being possibly Greek. Likewise I've never even remotely heard of the Greeks being associated with the Philistines.
Do you have a source for that or is it a connection you've devised for purposes of the game world?
Don't confuse the fact that the Phoenicans were the great seagoing nation of the ancient world and the concept of the earlier "sea people" the warlike raiders who appeared in the 12 Century BC ravaging their more civilised neighbours. The Phoenican lands bordered the Philistine lands and they don't seem to be the same people. The Philistines were quite unique. The theory that they were Mycanean Greeks is a long established one, with considerable evidence.
However don't forget how little evidence there is. In the 19th century one of the proofs that the Bible was incorrect was that it mentioned the Hittites (who weren't mentioned anywhere else) Until the excavation of Boghazköy the civilisation was unknown. (Although they have found that they had very destructive wars with the Egyptians now)
No-one else mentions the Myceneans but they were clearly there. With large numbers of sites excavated. Who the Trojans are is immensely debatable. Whether they were subject to the Hittites or not is difficult.
The historical setting game is difficult. However for the mythological game there are a lot of Greek myths.
On 5/19/2004 at 4:50am, Valthalion wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
tetsujin28 wrote:Valamir wrote:Well, Oliver Dickenson would never buy that.Mycenean Greeks (also known as the Sea people and the Philistines)-
Interesting connections. I am far more familiar with the Phoenicians being the "sea people". I've never heard of them being possibly Greek. Likewise I've never even remotely heard of the Greeks being associated with the Philistines.
Do you have a source for that or is it a connection you've devised for purposes of the game world?
I assume you mean Oliver Dickinson author the "The Aegean Bronze Age" rather than the author of Glorantha. Unless they are the same person!!!!
It seems to me that a translator of Akkadian could help in the Bronze Age age cultures of the Middle East.
Regards
Valthalion
Knight Against Chaos
On 5/21/2004 at 3:13pm, bergh wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
OK
Mykenian (spelling), from 1650 BC - 800 BC
Hellenic: 800BC - 338BC
Hellenistic: 338BC - 148BC
That Dark age, when was that?
and when was Greek Bronze age?
On 5/21/2004 at 4:26pm, toli wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
bergh wrote: OK
Mykenian (spelling), from 1650 BC - 800 BC
Hellenic: 800BC - 338BC
Hellenistic: 338BC - 148BC
That Dark age, when was that?
and when was Greek Bronze age?
I could be totally off, but if I remember correctly:
Mycenean ~1600 to 1200
Dark age 1200 - 800
Classical Greece ~600 - 350
Hellenistic ~350 to 150
I believe the dark age is the period of the Dorian invasions when new racial groups entered Greece.
Illiad is Mycenean or Dark age
Persian Wars and Peloponesean wars are classical greece
Phillip II and Alexander the Great are Hellenistic (no really greek but sort of greek...)
NT
On 5/22/2004 at 10:28pm, Valthalion wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
bergh wrote: OK
Mykenian (spelling), from 1650 BC - 800 BC
Hellenic: 800BC - 338BC
Hellenistic: 338BC - 148BC
Spelling wise there are two schools of thought First traditionally Greek spelling passes through Latin into English. (This is why Greek u becomes y in English) So Mycenean istead of Mukenian. Hercules rather than Heracles. The other school says we should transliterate directly from Greek. The secret is to be consistent one way or the other.
That Dark age, when was that?
The Greek Dark Age is from the destruction of the Mycenean empire until the discovery of writing about 600 BC It is called the dark age because there was a population decrease, destruction and poverty, but mostly because there was no writing. Scholars divide the age into subsections based on pottery types. (Geometric etc)
and when was Greek Bronze age?
The Bronze age starts with the discovery of bronze at the end of the stone age (about 3000BC) until the discovery of iron (about 1100 BC)
On 5/23/2004 at 7:09am, bergh wrote:
RE: TROS is Greece
this is more correct?
Mykenian from 1650 BC - 800 BC
"dark age": 800BC-600BC
Hellenic: 600BC - 338BC
Hellenistic: 338BC - 148BC
Anyway i just hope that you will use a few minutes to make a correct timeline in the same style as i have, it really annoying for me now that i don't know the correct information now, and most of the sites i visit on the net have differences...
http://courses.wcupa.edu/jones/his101/TIMELINE/T-GREEK.HTM
qoute" 1100-800BC Mycenaean civil war (the Greek "Dark Ages") "
show us your knowledge!
Q:
The Periods named Geometric, Pro-Classical and Classical, when are they?
really im totaly confused, and im almost given up on finding out, please continue to just give bits of information, and really i this just make me more confused, i just wish that someone would give me a "list" that was more understandeble