Topic: Sex & Violence: Roleplaying in the Darkest of Places
Started by: Jared A. Sorensen
Started on: 1/5/2002
Board: Memento-Mori Theatricks
On 1/5/2002 at 9:59pm, Jared A. Sorensen wrote:
Sex & Violence: Roleplaying in the Darkest of Places
I'll post the address when it's done. Just a heads up -- Sin City/Andrew Vachss-style crime fiction roleplaying. Uses playing cards. Kinda cool. Have no idea if it works. :)
(later)
Here it is!
http://memento-mori.com/sex
- J
On 1/6/2002 at 3:20am, hardcoremoose wrote:
Neat
Well, the mechanic looks nifty. I've become quite a fan of the playing card mechanics of late, and there's some pretty cool ideas in there. But I want more...
Selfish? Maybe.
- Moose
On 1/6/2002 at 3:34am, Jared A. Sorensen wrote:
RE: Sex & Violence: Roleplaying in the Darkest of Places
Okay, rules for zero-G space combat coming up...
Oh wait.
Jesus, Moosey. Don't leave me hanging...what else do you want?
On 1/6/2002 at 3:50am, hardcoremoose wrote:
RE: Sex & Violence: Roleplaying in the Darkest of Places
Holy crap, J., what don't I want?
I wants me some guidelines for developing my own Sin City. I want rules for Femme Fatales. You got the violence part covered...let's have the sex!
Really, I don't know what those rules would be like. But hell, you got to have some ideas on how to drive the source material home (beyond the cool resolution mechanic).
I need to read some Vachs (I'm hanging my head in shame, please don't throw anything), but Miller rocks! Have you seen the new Dark Knight stuff yet? Sadly, I haven't had a chance.
- Moose
On 1/6/2002 at 4:00am, Jared A. Sorensen wrote:
RE: Sex & Violence: Roleplaying in the Darkest of Places
Re: Dark Knight.
Yeah, it's really fun -- I kept going "Oh! That's hilarious and sick!"
As for the whole Sin City thing, well...I'm less inclined to stuff rules in for characterization.
Yeah, it's just a resolution mechanic. Dull, eh?
At first it was going to be very storytelling-ish. Stats like SEX, VIOLENCE and GREASE (ie: finesse), inverse scales, die pools...but crap. we've seen it all before (especially here). So I decided to do something with cards. I like how you build a character using the face cards.
This kind of game is more about mood than anything else. It needs Ron's ninja-like skillz re: delving into source material and writing up R-maps. Basically, read Sorcerer's Soul when it comes out and use that to plan the actual game sessions
--- rant ---
The sad truth of it is this. I see a lot of refining and polishing of existing concepts. I can't think of many types of games that couldn't be run with an existing system (and run well, I might add). Take Clinton's superheroes game Panels for a moment. When he finishes it, it's going to be the shit. Could you improve on it? Probably. But why waste the time? If I run a superheroes game, that's the one I'm going to use. Or I could use Marvel or Marvel SAGA or (ack) even The Code.
But I don't play. So it's kinda pointless.
I'll keep DOING it, but I'll just keep feeling like a hamster spinning a wheel.
On 1/6/2002 at 4:11am, hardcoremoose wrote:
RE: Sex & Violence: Roleplaying in the Darkest of Places
Waxing philosophical, eh? I know where you're coming from...especially that hamster reference.
Sue me if you want, but ya' hooked me with the Sin City thing. I've been thinking alot about how to get away from some of the deep stuff, because you're right - it's been done, and probably by better people than myself. So what else is there? I dunno...I've been thinking alot about imagery. Pure imagery. Stuff like the FotR (which, for all of it's cool characterization, it's still the images that get me). Stuff like Michael Parkes paintings. Or maybe a Frank Miller comic (or a game about a Frank Miller comic, using playing cards, which are far more image-laden than plain ol' dice).
It's really the frustrated artist in me wanting to get out.
- Moose
On 1/7/2002 at 8:00pm, Jared A. Sorensen wrote:
RE: Sex & Violence: Roleplaying in the Darkest of Places
Just finished some more Sin City books -- That Yellow Bastard and A Dame to Kill For. Strangely enough, one of the Sin City books is called...Sex & Violence. How's that for cool?
Anyway, awesome books.
I'm going to scrap what I have done already and try it again. Still cards, but -- dunno yet. Going to use a set of broad archetypes that players MUST use (Hired Gun, Rogue Cop, Hooker with a Heart of Gold, etc.) and really try to slam home the concept of the game with weaknesses (dames, booze, dice, drugs, fast cars) and obsessions (vengeance, love, survival, greed).
Kickers and Bangs will have to be mentioned/referenced. I don't want this to be simulation-y at all. It's all about being in one place and having to go to another (darker) place. Like Burke doing a job for one thing (money) only to have it twist around to be something else (protecting kids).
If anyone has advice, shoot.
On 1/9/2002 at 6:48am, unheilig wrote:
Silly nitpickiness
I knwo none of this matters, but...
Spades represent swords, which are weapons.
Hearts are well, hearts...
Clubs are a warping of Cups or Coins... representing wealth and prosperity
Diamonds are a warping of wands, which represent intellect/magic.
oh, and thank you SO MUCH for doing something cool with face cards!
If I see one more card-based game use face cards as +1 modifiers, I'm gonna puke.
You're the first I've seen to use trumping in an rpg, an idea I've been toying with for awhile. kudos, yet again!
unheilig.
On 1/9/2002 at 2:00pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
RE: Sex & Violence: Roleplaying in the Darkest of Places
Hey,
Dwight is a sorcerer. The women are his demons. So, briefly, was Marv. At first it seems as if Ava were the sorceress and Manute is her demon, but a larger view argues the reverse.
Oops, wrong forum!
Best,
Ron
On 1/9/2002 at 2:03pm, Jared A. Sorensen wrote:
RE: Silly nitpickiness
unheilig wrote:
I knwo none of this matters, but...
Spades represent swords, which are weapons.
Hearts are well, hearts...
Clubs are a warping of Cups or Coins... representing wealth and prosperity
Diamonds are a warping of wands, which represent intellect/magic.
Okay, in the Unhelig edition... ;)
I always think of clubs being used to bash people's heads in, hence clubs=violence.
Thanks re: face cards. That's one of the ideas I kinda like about the system. Kinda. Needs work. :(
On 3/16/2002 at 7:53pm, reptile2k1 wrote:
Suggestion!
Hi folks!
Clubs are for violence, Diamonds are intellectual stuff, Hearts are social stuff... nice! Spades are for physical stuff... but isn't that already covered with violence? And what about technical stuff?
My suggestions:
Spades: technical stuff... repair a broken car, fix a jammed gun, pick a lock without breaking it, build a house
Clubs: physical and violent stuff... punching, shooting, jumping, climbing
Hearts: social stuff... intimidation, seduction, streetwise, haggle
Diamonds: intellectual stuff... criminology, quoting Shakespeare, science
What do you think?
On 3/16/2002 at 8:04pm, reptile2k1 wrote:
Woooops! and some questions
Hehehehe
So I didn't remember the symbol assignment correctly... *blush*. Nonetheless I think my suggestion would work.
A question here
"[...]Nico is going to rig a car with a bomb. But first, he needs to disable the car's security system. The GM decides this is a average-difficulty task (TN=10). I bid the 4 of Spades and the 5 of Diamonds. I keep the 4 of Spades because this is a Spades-related task.[...]"
4+5=9... did I miss something? You have to exceed the TN, haven't you?
Another suggestion
"[...]You can flip over a face card at any time draw re-fill your hand to ten cards.[...]"
If I remember correctly, this is the first place where the actual hand size is mentioned (although I could have missed it, since I seem to be rather blind). Maybe you could mention that earlier!
On 3/18/2002 at 2:01am, reptile2k1 wrote:
RE: Sex & Violence: Roleplaying in the Darkest of Places
Jared A. Sorensen wrote: Hey, Rep.
The game (or whatever it is at this juncture) isn't really done and it's not been playtested...at all.
Well... maybe I can talk my folks into playtesting it... they don't like playtesting but I will see what I can do!
It definetely looks cool ;-).
On 3/20/2002 at 12:51am, Matt Steflik wrote:
RE: Sex & Violence: Roleplaying in the Darkest of Places
Jared A. Sorensen wrote:
If anyone has advice, shoot.
A question to clarify bidding, particularly during opposed actions...do you see this being done open or secretly? On one hand I kind of like the notion of players having their trumps face up in front of them. It adds to the imagery notion that you seem to be going for. A player with the King, Queen and Jack of Clubs in front of him "looks" dangerous and threatening, for example...you see that and you probably don't want to pick a fight with him. I like this, and I think it fits the Sin City/Vachss vibe really well. On the other hand...In bidding, if done completely open with the "instigator" playing first, the "target" always knows exactly what's coming. If done this way it would seem to remove any aspect of "surprise" from encounters...there's no chance of accidently overcompensating on a bid and wasting resources and you can minimize the damage when you know you're going to fail a bid by playing low cards in "lon-leathal" situations. A suggestion - perhaps while trumps are actively bid face up, further bids are made face down by those involved and then revealed simultaneously and compared? Or what about this: if the situation plays to a character's strength, he gets to see the bid face up if he's not the instigator and may play the bid face down if he is (advantage). If the situation plays to a character's weakness, this is reversed (disadvantage).
Another question regarding cards in hand and the issue of health/hit points/insert name here. Let's see if I've got this right (perhaps this is an "ignore this" mechanic right now and this whole thread is moot - appologies in advance if this is the case). It sounds like you draw ten cards at the start of an episode. Cards that match the suit of your Trump(s) can be returned to your hand after being bid. You gain new cards by flipping over one of your Trumps to refill your hand back to ten, or wait until the beginning of a new scene. You can regain use of a flipped trump by playing 20 points worth of cards from your hand next to the flipped Trump (these are seperate from cards played as bids). When hurt, you "flip" a number of cards in your hand equal to the difference between your bid and the opponent's winning bid. If all your cards in hand are "flipped", you're dead. So far so good?
Alright. What if all my Trumps are flipped and I'm down to five cards in my hand, when I'm are suddenly attacked. I've never been attacked before so I'm not wounded. I bid three of my remaining cards, but I lose the bid by two points. Am I dead? If not, do I have to "flip" my only remaining two cards? If so, now what do I do now? Or are two of my eight currently empty "card slots" just now "unavailable". I'm thinking the last statement is what you're going with but I'm not positive - it seems to make the most sense. I assume that if you need to bid and you have no cards (I think it can happen) you automatically fail, correct?
Overall, neat stuff so far - looking forward to more.
On 3/20/2002 at 4:34am, Jared A. Sorensen wrote:
RE: Sex & Violence: Roleplaying in the Darkest of Places
Matt Steflik wrote:
A question to clarify bidding, particularly during opposed actions...do you see this being done open or secretly? On one hand I kind of like the notion of players having their trumps face up in front of them. It adds to the imagery notion that you seem to be going for.
Your "face cards" are out in the open, yes. They're flipped over (and thus hidden from view) when used (for whatever reason).
Matt Steflik wrote:
Alright. What if all my Trumps are flipped and I'm down to five cards in my hand, when I'm are suddenly attacked. I've never been attacked before so I'm not wounded. I bid three of my remaining cards, but I lose the bid by two points. Am I dead? If not, do I have to "flip" my only remaining two cards? If so, now what do I do now? Or are two of my eight currently empty "card slots" just now "unavailable". I'm thinking the last statement is what you're going with but I'm not positive - it seems to make the most sense. I assume that if you need to bid and you have no cards (I think it can happen) you automatically fail, correct?
I've been re-writing S&V so I'm not sure how to answer this. As written right now (and as intended), yeah, you'd have unavailable card slots (as you put it). You don't get to replenish your hand (because your hand isn't down any card) but you can't use the cards you have. That sums it up.
It will be changing over time...check out the site now for the most recent changes (expanded character creation, chock full o' Premise...or soon to be, anyway).
On 3/20/2002 at 10:50pm, Ace wrote:
Re: Silly nitpickiness
Jared A. Sorensen wrote:unheilig wrote:
I knwo none of this matters, but...
Spades represent swords, which are weapons.
Hearts are well, hearts...
Clubs are a warping of Cups or Coins... representing wealth and prosperity
Diamonds are a warping of wands, which represent intellect/magic.
Okay, in the Unhelig edition... ;)
I always think of clubs being used to bash people's heads in, hence clubs=violence.
Thanks re: face cards. That's one of the ideas I kinda like about the system. Kinda. Needs work. :(
Not a bad game concept at all. I am a huge Vachss fan so maybe i am bit biased. As too the mechanics, Cards are a great idea they reinforce the "street level" feel nicely.
reminds me of Burke and Maxs ongoing bridge games actually.
Now as too card mechanics, I used a card based system (crappy) for a pick up supers game once (No dice handy and didn't want to make chits) We used all 52 crads but i didn't think of using the suites. Instead I had a "high card wins" interpretive system. Jokers represented "Weirdness or Chaos"
I would like to suggest that you consider allowing the Jokers in a cinematic game, they could represent a stroke of luck good or bad.
Maybe if you get a Joker in your hand you can play it once either as a lucky break or or you or a bad break for the other guy.
If you don't want much luck you could discard the joker or if you could have the DM add it too his hand as "Karma" for using a little luck,
Good luck is always followed by Bad in the City that sort of thing.....