Well, as of today I feel that someone was listening to my my rant.

I mean, the cynical part of me "knows" that the main White Wolf people aren't reading the Forge, but when the latest Vampire player's guide references "My Guy Syndrome" (albiet under a different name) and I get news that they've abolished their metaplot, I have to wonder if our ideas are finally starting to filter into the RPG "mainstream". I mean, as the "bigger" RPG manufacturers go, White Wolf seems to be the most likely to actually be capable of bringing some "Forgite" ideas to the "common gamer"...

Is Geoff Grabowski a Forgeite? Because a lot of the stuff they're doing with WoD 2.0 seem to be based on the very successful Exalted model, such a corebook and fatsplats and the lack of metaplot (but presumably lots of backstory and plothooks that can be expanded upon to move product).

I remember a Ken Hite "Out of the Box" column where he quoted an unnamed staffer as saying that "we might as well get credit for killing it since it's dying anyway."

DannyK wrote: Is Geoff Grabowski a Forgeite? Because a lot of the stuff they're doing with WoD 2.0 seem to be based on the very successful Exalted model, such a corebook and fatsplats and the lack of metaplot (but presumably lots of backstory and plothooks that can be expanded upon to move product).

It should be noted that various WW people have poked their heads round here on occasion. Bruce Baugh (of Adventure fame) is the one that springs to mind...

But as to direct influence, who knows? Things filter through, and anything that makes RPGs better is bound to get an uptake.

-Matt

Matt wrote: But as to direct influence, who knows? Things filter through, and anything that makes RPGs better is bound to get an uptake.

X and I have already had this discussion.

As a commerical RPG writer, I'll be happy to answer these questions, at least from where I stand.

1) I have never, in about four years of maitaining almost daily contact with industry writers, never once heard of any of them using any concept from the Forge for any practical purpose in their writing. I have seen people use Forge terms on very rare occasions ("Heartbreakers" for instance) as a shorthand, but I've never seen anyone use any version of Threefols Theory for any sort of design or ciritism.

In my experience, industry writers prefer critical methods that have seen extensive use in other fields and combine them with their own ideas. For example, Bruce Baugh and I have had some productive discussions about poststructuralist theory that both of us have eventually gotten around to applying to our respective work. The balance of game writers think of roleplaying as a strongly intertextual medium that doesn't lend itself to rigid, structuralist criticism. People either don't bother with a method at all, use one creative structure as a framework to hang more freewheeling elements (I've often looked at Steve Kenson's work in this light), or, or they either formally or instinctively see roleplaying as a sort of reading of culture (expressed as different genres and trends within the culture of gaming itself) whose constructed intersection creates a game's theme.

2) Geoff Grabowski has some definite ideas. I can't say what they are in this forum, but it doesn't have much to do with anything here. You;d have to corner him at a convention and ask, really.

3) As I've explained here and elsewhere, metaplot isn't really a problem for players. It's a problem for *creators.* Vampire's sales never really declined past what's expected for the general annual shrinking of the industry, but it became more and more difficult to write revelant Vampire material. This is not just a metaplot problem. It also had to do with the setting. I once sent a proposal for Mage book that had to do with a secondary element of the setting. It was refused because it was too obscure. When I mentioned a similar book for Vampire the developer noted that Vampire was at the stage where it *had* to mine that secondary material. When a game's come to that, it's time to pull the tirgger, or else you end up with bloodline books and similar cruft.

eyebeams wrote: X and I have already had this discussion.