This system has taken me quite a while to work on, mostly because I'd find something that just didn't work and changing it meant changing the whole system. I remember my first play test sessions where characters rolled dice for the same test about 10 times, or a point blank shotgun blast to the face didn't do any damage.

Finally I have, I hope, arrived here with a system that isn't perfect but is at least playable. Finally I'm presenting it to you all, you lucky lucky people. When you've finished reading it all input is welcome but I need to know certain things in particular.

Is the game balanced from what you can see? Simple enough for new gamers, but involved enough not to bored an advanced gamer? Does character creation make an interesting and unique enough character? Are the Expertises [Something like a class] too restrictive or not restrictive enough. Obviously any other input is welcome and appreciated.


1. The Nitty Gritty Basic System Junk

In the complexity system there are two types of rolls, Complexity and Opposed. The goal in both situations is to roll high enough to succeed in the check.

In the case of a Complexity roll you must beat the Complexity Rating or CR that is set by the GM. Opposed rolls are rolls made between two characters [PC or NPC] and victory in one of these rolls is achieved by rolling higher than your opponent.

The CR of a complexity roll is secret in most cases to add a tiny bit more tension to critical situations. The highest a CR can go is 60, and even though a character can roll up to 60 with everything maxed out, it's no common event to roll 12 on 5D12

A CR of 1 is so easy it's not worth rolling, while a CR of 60 is impossible as far as most people are concerned.

Your skill rank determines the dice type you roll

Skill Rank Dice Type
1-2 1D4
3-4 1D6
5-6 1D8
7-8 1D10
9-10 1D12

While your attribute rank determines the number of dice you actually roll to beat the CR or your opponents roll. So far attributes range anywhere from 1 to 5, with 3 being average, and rarely go past either extreme. The maximum and minimum may change for certain species in games that have more than just humans. The attributes are as follows...

Strength: Is a reflection of your characters...umm...strength

Reflex: Reflects your characters reflexes and manual dexterity.

Stamina: Rates your characters physical health and resistance to hardship

Perception: Rates the strength of your characters senses.

Intellect: Is a representation of your characters intelligence and reasoning skills.

Charisma: Rates your characters charm and force of personality.


An example of a Complexity Roll, a character with 3 ranks in Hacking and a 3 in Intellect wants to break into a local banks database. The GM decides the CR based on how good the bank's security protocols and such are. The character gets 3D6 to roll against the secret CR of 15 that the GM has decided upon.

An example of an opposed roll, a character with 1 rank in Ranged [Pistol] and a 4 in Reflex decides he's gonna bust a cap in some foo yo.

Because his rank is 1 he rolls a D4, because his reflex is 4 he rolls 4D4 against the other character's Reflex * Dodge dice. That of course will be delved into more deeply when I explain combat.


Certain skills can be used without having an actual rank in them, these skills use the characters basic attribute dice. The basic attribute dice is also used in situations with no relevant skill, like armwrestling.

Attribute Rank Dice
1 1D4
2 1D6
3 1D8
4 1D10
5 1D12

In the case of a tie the character with the most dice wins, if that's a tie the character with the highest skill rank wins, if that's also a tie the characters roll one of their skill dice off against each other until someone wins.


2. Character Creation

To create your character in a game using the Complexity system you are given 20 points to distribute amongst your attributes.

Once you have decided upon your attribute ranks you must decide your characters "class". In the case of my current project, class is called "Expertise." Expertise do various things like, grant access to certain Complex Skills [explained later], give some skill bonuses [which still can't bring a skill past 2 ranks, but they do save points to allow greater customization when skills are selected], define the dice a character rolls for his physical health, and grant the character a certain special ability.

For the moment I'll display the Expertise of "Demolitionist" to show what I mean.

Demolitionist

Everyone loves a good explosion and the Demolitionist delivers every time. Those with the Demolitionist expertise are highly skilled at the use of explosives and traps as well as disarming either. They make sure that the group doesn’t get blown up or that the enemy does.


Complex Skills

Chemistry
Electronics
Explosives
Traps


Skill Bonuses

Awareness: +1
Traps: +1
Demolitions: +1


Physical Health Dice

1D8


Special Ability

Cautious Disarmament
The Demolitionist knows the intricacies of detonators and triggers. If he takes twice the trap or explosives normal disarm time to work on it he cannot accidentally detonate the device with a failed roll.


After Expertise is determined, the player decides on his skills. Players are given their character's intellect * 2 in points to distribute amongst their skill ranks. No skill may go above 2 ranks at character creation, this is because a brand new character lacks the experience to refine his skills. The skill list is extensive so I won't list them here.

There are 3 kinds of skills in this system. The simple skill is a skill that a character can take regardless of expertise and if he has no ranks in it, he can substitute his attribute dice. An example of a simple skill is Intimidation.

The Common skill is a skill that can be taken regardless of expertise, but the character needs to have ranks in it to use it. He cannot substitute his attribute dice. An example of a Common skill is First Aid.

Complex Skills require specific and complicated training for any kind of practical use and a character can only have them if they're granted to them by their expertise. Attribute dice cannot be substituted for complex skills. An example of a Complex skill is Explosives.


Once skills are selected the player rolls his expertise's physical health dice and adds his stamina rating to it. So a starting Demolitionist with 3 Stamina could have up to 11 Physical Health. The GM may allow starting characters to have their maximum physical health.

That's all I'm going to do for now. I'll post information on combat after everyone's had a good look at what I have up so far and gotten a chance to comment. All help is greatly appreciated! I also wrote this up late at night so if anything's confusing just ask me about it. I think everything's fairly coherent though lol.

I hope I've presented it in an acceptable manner, if not feel free to correct me on that too since this is my first time presenting information regarding game mechanics.

StrongBadMun wrote:
Your skill rank determines the dice type you roll

Skill Rank Dice Type
1-2 1D4
3-4 1D6
5-6 1D8
7-8 1D10
9-10 1D12

While your attribute rank determines the number of dice you actually roll ....attributes range anywhere from 1 to 5, with 3 being average

small answer: I have 10 skill ranks because I don't want an increase in rank to mean an immediate dice type increase. After all, just because I learn a little more about something doesn't mean it affects my efficiency much.


small answer again: That's a possibility I've considered. All my friends offline seem to dislike single dice systems but I certainly wouldn't mind reducing it to one dice type. However, just having a skill add +1 to each dice reduces their importance to simple bonuses in my opinion and I think a skill is more involved than that.


From the few playtest sessions I have had though it has made the difference between a well trained and a new character more obvious. 3D6+2 vs. 3D6 isn't quite as intimidating as 3D10 vs 3D6. However, as I've said, this part of the system is still very much changeable. I started with a D6 system so it wouldn't be too terribly difficult to return to one.


medium answer: I know dancers who are extremely dexterous who'd lop their own arms off if they picked up a sword. Attributes are raw talent, skills are refined and honed knowledge and well...skills.


Medium answer again: As a GM I find that systems that give me greater flexibility with Target Numbers are easier to work with. 1-10 is somewhat limiting while 1-60 gives me many different target numbers to utilize if I think it's a LITTLE more challenging than 20 or a LITTLE less challenging than 30.


Big Answer: The main system core is meant to be an easily transferrable system that could be used for any setting. With the examples I gave I was simply referring to things I had already created to give a better representation of what I meant.

There are also Hacker and Artificer [Craftsman type] Expertise, Doctor, and so on. The effect itself is to try and create a game that's easy and flexible enoough for a GM to use without being confined by rules lawyers. Also to make it so characters are free to expand a character beyond simple classifications while still having some common sense guidelines in place.

Like the difference between skills where a complex skill isn't something someone can just wing it with, while a simple skill is something anyone can do.


I hope that answers some of your questions, and I'll take your comments into consideration. ^^

Okay... an easily transferrable system that can be used for any setting.

But what do you want to do with it?

What styles of play should it support? What type of story structures do you envision people pursuing with it?

Shotgun to the head that does no damage. Sounds like the d20 system ^.^

No offense.

I can sympathize with having to rework the system to solve little problems. Fortunately, my RPG is relatively minimalist, so I had only small issues with that. I think every revamp is worth it, though, because you often solve more problems then you intended to.


I like the complex roll system, but you might have some issues explaining it to your players ^.^

My main problem is with your class thing. I have no problem with classes. The problem I do have is the customization options are limited. Say you want your demolitionist to also make homebrewed beer in his spare time. How would the system describe this? Yeah. I think it becomes an issue when the characters only specialize in one or two areas. In reality, most people have a huge array of skills.

Is this another "rework the system to solve that little, nagging problem" thing? Still, cool system. Nice, fun mechanics. Very playable, but not perfect.

StrongBadMun wrote:
small answer again: That's a possibility I've considered. All my friends offline seem to dislike single dice systems but I certainly wouldn't mind reducing it to one dice type.

Sydney Freedberg wrote:

StrongBadMun wrote:
A medium question: Why distinguish attributes and skills at all? I know lots of RPGs do it, but (rant on) what is so different about being "very strong" and "a very good shot" -- aren't they just both "things your character is good at"? (rant off)

My favorite answer to this question comes from FUDGE:

FUDGE wrote: Attributes are basically skills that everyone has.

Alf_the_Often_Incorrect wrote: My main problem is with your class thing. I have no problem with classes. The problem I do have is the customization options are limited. Say you want your demolitionist to also make homebrewed beer in his spare time. How would the system describe this? Yeah. I think it becomes an issue when the characters only specialize in one or two areas. In reality, most people have a huge array of skills.

combat system coming soon once I've finished the pre-presentation simplification and dusting off of.

I'm working now on addressing issues brought up by the people who were kind enough to check out my system and give opinions.

Sydney Freedberg wrote: Do you really need five different types of dice for this? Couldn't you just use all d6s and say, "for every 2 skill ranks, add +1 to each die?"

Thank you Sydney!

I was thinking the same thing I just couldn't figure out how to word it. I hate it when I have an idea that I can't formulate, but you've taken care of that for me quite nicely! lol

I've come up with a way to further simplify things and get rid of a lot of trivial skills like Run

The attributes are split up into 2 groups.

Physical
Strength, Reflex, Stamina

Mental
Perception, Intellect, Charisma

Within the Physical and Mental grouping there are 3 sub attributes for each.

Physical Subattributes
Power, Speed, Endurance

Mental Subattributes
Sense, Cognition, Guile


These subattributes are treated just like skills for the purposes of determining dice type rolled and all begin at Rank 1. Essentially they're one part skill, one part "saving throw"

Power is used in rolls that require strength but no type of training. Like armwrestling or determining your unarmed damage.

Speed is used in rolls that require reflex but no type of training. Like avoiding a trap or attack.

Endurance is used in rolls that require stamina but no type of training. Like resisting poison.

Sense is used in rolls that require perception but no type of training. Like spotting the trap before you step on it.

Cognition is used in rolls that require intellect but no type of training. Like having the mental toughness to resist a mind-affecting spell.

Guile is used in rolls that require charisma but no type of training. Like seducing the pretty barmaid.

These subattributes will be used to replace the simple skills like run, lift, etc, and totally remove that whole confusing attribute dice rank thing I had in place for rolls that had no appropriate skill. Additional ranks cannot be purchased at character creation however since those skill points reflect your characters training into things that don't come naturally.

They may seem like they add something extra to confuse players but they reduce the number of skills and simplify several other aspects of the game.

Ah, the old "which attributes and skills" question -- how many, what are they, how broad or narrow. It's a huge freakin' trap, you know. I've spent some time in it myself.

Don't start with the attributes and skills. Start with the mechanics and, above all, with the kind of gameplay you want to produce -- do I want people to roll against their Run skill every turn? Do I want some things to be possible for everyone and other things possible only for the trained (e.g. attribute-based vs. skill-based)? What qualities of a character are going to be important in my game? Strength? Willpower? Maybe "situational awareness," that crucial quality of a good fighter pilot that lets you track five fast-moving enemies at once? If you try to come up with stats that can cover every possibility, you're doomed. Instead think about what you need, then make the attributes and skills to support that.

An excellent, minimalist example of this kind of design is My Life With Master (Paul Czege), in which PCs have only three numerical stats -- Weariness, Self-Loathing, and Love -- and two non-numerical descriptions. Or, for a (relatively) more conventional approach, Sorcerer (Ron Edwards), which has just Stamina (all physical actions), Will, Lore (all sorcery), and Cover (your non-sorcerous profession).

Or, for games actually being hammered out now on the Forge, check out the pre-history of Scarlet Wake [URL=http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=11029] here [/URL].

The mechanics are at least playable and I'll begin playtesting sometime this week with some of my friends. I'm trying for a happy medium though, not too much stuff to have to take in, but not too minimalist.

I intend for the focus to be on roleplaying so I'm trimming the system fat as much as possible. I'll be writing up the combat presentation tonight sometime.

Ok you lovely people, it's time to learn about my combat system which is, (I think), incredibly simple.

Initiative:

To determine your initiative add your Reflex and your Perception attributes together. The total is your initiative modifier. At the beginning of combat you roll a D6 and add your initiative modifier to the result of the roll.

The person with the highest initiative roll goes first. If someone ties initiatives, the person with the highest reflex goes first. If reflex is tied, the person with the highest perception wins. If both are tied, the players both roll 1D6 against each other and the highest roller goes first.

Attacking
To attack, you roll the appropriate attribute and combat skill combination.

So if you're trying to stab your opponent with a knife you roll Reflex Attribute * Melee Skill just like you would with a normal skill check.

Attacks typically use the following attributes.

Brawl, Heavy Melee Weapons; Strength

Melee Weapons, Martial Arts, snap shot with a ranged weapon; Reflex

Aimed Shot with a ranged weapon; Perception


Dodging, Parrying, Blocking
When a character is attacked he usually gets the chance to avoid it somehow if he is physically capable of doing so. Reflex is the attribute used for all defensive rolls because defending an attack always requires moving quickly.

Parries can only be rolled by characters with Melee, Shield, or Martial Arts skill. If a character successfully parries he may roll to try and send his opponent off balance. Both combatants roll their Reflex x Speed against each other. If the defender wins, his attacker is thrown off balance and cannot make a defensive roll against the next attack rolled against him.

To Dodge roll: Reflex * Speed

To Parry a melee attack roll: Reflex * Melee

To Parry a hand to hand attack roll: Reflex * Martial Arts

To Block a brawl attack roll: Reflex * Brawl

To Parry or Block an attack with a shield roll: Reflex * Shield


Resolving attacks
Simple enough, the person who rolls highest wins. If the attacker wins he succeeds in his attack, if the defender wins he succeeds in defending against that attack.

Dealing Damage
The attacker rolls his weapons damage and the defender reduces his Physical Health by the total of that roll. An unarmed attacker uses his Power dice rank to determine his damage dice.

With melee weapons, martial arts, or brawl attacks Characters with 4 strength get a +1 to their damage roll. Characters with 5 Strength get a +2 to their damage rolls.


The use of Armor
Characters wearing armor can avoid taking the full amount of damage they would normally. For each point of resistance their armor has, the attacker reduces his damage dice type by 1.

If the damage dice type is reduced below 1D4 the attacker only deals 1 damage plus any bonuses. Damage can never be reduced by 1 unless the armor specifically states that it can reduce damage to 0.


Targeted Shots
To hit a specific part of your target you subtract a certain amount from your roll total.

Examples
To hit the torso you recieve a -1
To hit the arms or legs you recieve a -3
To hit the head you recieve a -5
To hit the mouth or eyes you recieve a -10


Available Actions
On their turn characters can do simple actions like moving, attacking, opening a door.

To do more complex actions, disarming a bomb for example, the GM determines how many rounds it will take for the character to accomplish his desired action.


I think that's everything. If I missed anything, just ask about it. I've left out things like how lighting and such affect combat because they're simply set minuses to the roll and would only really need to change if the combat system did.

What I want to know is, does combat look simple enough? Is any part of the combat system unbalanced?

Thanks for answers to those questions and additional comments ahead of time.