Hey all,

Although it's not 100% complete just yet (more like 85%), I thought I may as well post this up now, seeing as how it will be completely finished in about two days anyways, and what is there is all the rules. All that's left is to tie it all together in a chapter about doing just that by giving an example of play, and a chapter on what to do when everyone's cleared their List.

So anyways, this is a good oppurtunity for me to get people to pick up on stuff that I may have missed and give me suggestions before the fully Official playtest release in a few days/a week. With luck, I will have a website and forum up and running by then, but until then, all comments, suggestions, criticisms, whatever about anything are welcome as always.

So enough of my ramblings, download these:
Scarlet Wake Play-Test Rulebook
Character Sheet

Thanks,
-Ben

I couldn't resist reading the whole thing at work. It's just too cool.

My main thought is that this game is non-traditional enough that there's no reason to aim it at a traditional RPG audience -- or even to describe it as "a roleplaying game" (though it is; but people who like RPGs will recognize it, and people who don't might not realize if you don't tell them, at least not until they've read enough to get hooked). That said, the current draft assumes a fair degree of RPG background, so in order to "go mainstream" you would have to have a very good "how to play section" aimed at novices, tons of good examples, and (my pet peeve) fewer types of dice. But then you could market this as as a kind of party game and go after Tarrentino and Hong Kong action fans who don't know a thing about roleplaying.

Ben, this looks awesome. I'm printing it out so I can take a closer look at it (I hate reading stuff on screen). I'm gonna see if I can get some people together and run this. One thing, though... I love the typewriter-style font, but I can't stand reading it. Ouch! My eyes hurt. I think you'll still get the same feel if all the headlines and such are in that font, but the body copy is something more readable.

Man, I'm having coniptions. Very, very tight. This one does have the ability to go mainstream. Seems simple to pick up and gameplay inspires more of a "party" atmosphere than the usual "sitting around a table throwing dice". RPGers will know it for what it is, but you could go well beyond the type of players you'd expect to get.

Must....learn....to draw!

That's a nice looking game! It's neat seeing all the parts fit together like that. I'm gonna print it when I get a chance, and maybe see who I can convince to try it.


CHRIS M.

Sledgeman wrote: That's a nice looking game! It's neat seeing all the parts fit together like that. I'm gonna print it when I get a chance, and maybe see who I can convince to try it.


CHRIS M.

Wow. It's really great to get all this positive feedback! Thanks guys!

Sydney wrote: My main thought is that this game is non-traditional enough that there's no reason to aim it at a traditional RPG audience -- or even to describe it as "a roleplaying game" (though it is; but people who like RPGs will recognize it, and people who don't might not realize if you don't tell them, at least not until they've read enough to get hooked).
...
But then you could market this as as a kind of party game and go after Tarrentino and Hong Kong action fans who don't know a thing about roleplaying.

Scott (WyldKarde) wrote: This one does have the ability to go mainstream. Seems simple to pick up and gameplay inspires more of a "party" atmosphere than the usual "sitting around a table throwing dice". RPGers will know it for what it is, but you could go well beyond the type of players you'd expect to get.

Andrew Morris wrote: One thing, though... I love the typewriter-style font, but I can't stand reading it. Ouch! My eyes hurt. I think you'll still get the same feel if all the headlines and such are in that font, but the body copy is something more readable.

Andrew Morris wrote: I'm printing it out so I can take a closer look at it (I hate reading stuff on screen). I'm gonna see if I can get some people together and run this.

Sledgeman wrote: I'm gonna print it when I get a chance, and maybe see who I can convince to try it.

Andrew Martin wrote: Me, too! I see if I can get our Sunday group to try it out.

Sydney wrote: That said, the current draft assumes a fair degree of RPG background, so in order to "go mainstream" you would have to have a very good "how to play section" aimed at novices, tons of good examples, and (my pet peeve) fewer types of dice.

Hi, Ben.

Ravien wrote: Also, let me know if there's any problems with printing it too. I don't have a printer so I can't test things myself.

Color me impressed. I think I'll try to get a session of this one in too. I agree that the font is a little much.

Good Work, get it together and sell the sucker. Hell Wushu sells for 5 bucks.

Trevis

I think the color of the document itself -- especially if worked on furhter still -- should be good advertisement in itself, if your can just show it to people. Anyway, if you post in Publishing, I bet there are some people who could give you good advice on marketing.

Oh, I too agree that the body font if difficult to read. It would certainly be less colorful without it, but maybe you cna find some other font that is unique and which has a similar style, but which flows better -- maybe just a slightly less rough typeriter-style font.

Ok, today I managed to get my Scarlet Wake forum up and running (feel free to join :) ), took care of the font issue by replacing it with a cleaner and easier to read one, and managed to slog through the first half of chapter 7. I've updated the rulebook pdf just now, so anyone who wants to can download this latest but as-yet-oh-so-near-completion version. Tomorrow I plan on finishing the whole book, then maybe finding time for a front-end website for the forum. Fingers crossed.

Andrew Martin wrote: The character sheet (I printed 6 copies) was too "faded". The red writing gets changed to a sort of faded grey pattern, which is harder to read. I think that the writing should be in black, with the borders of the sheet like blood dripping off a blade's edge.

Andrew Martin wrote: I wasn't able to interest my Sunday group in the game at the moment, they prefer to do my legendary heroes and gods game (Samsara) tomorrow, as they enjoyed the previous week's game. Wargames convention next weekend, so I'll try again in a fortnight.

Jasper wrote: I think the color of the document itself -- especially if worked on furhter still -- should be good advertisement in itself, if your can just show it to people. Anyway, if you post in Publishing, I bet there are some people who could give you good advice on marketing.

Trevis Martin wrote: Color me impressed. I think I'll try to get a session of this one in too.

While Outatowners is in rewrite, I got my group running this. I'll tell you what we came back with. We'll play for fun saturday, then play to break it on sunday. I'll hit you up with the resuts on your forum.

Ravien wrote: I am crap at marketing. I doubt my ability to sell this to even the most game-hungry RPG addict, even ones who have the money to buy everything in the shop, even ones who love Kill Bill. The reason? I am crap at hype...

Sydney Freedberg wrote: ... a good enough product will attract attention with minimal marketing; it just takes longer.

Build a quality product and make it available for sale; the people who buy it, will tell their friends to buy it as well. There's no better or cheaper salesperson than a friend who uses the product. And there's no need for marketing or advertising expenses, "hoping" or bribing people for "good" reviews, or trying to "hide" or discount poor reviews.

Man I am really jazzed by this game ,I really haven'nt done a detailed, point-by-point look. I've already decided I'm going to get some of the gang at the inde-netgaming channel and playtest this sucker as soon as possible. Some things about the game jump out at me:

1. No GM. This is a major thing with me, I really believe that the need for a GM is a factor in the difficulty keeping groups together. Plus if you read lots of rpg.net you can see a surpising number of people whining about how they get pushed into the GM role. Scarlet Wake is an antidote to this, tired GMs can whip it out on nights they feel like playing and groups can play it if their regular GM is indisposed....

2. It's setting independent. Really this game can be played in any world/setting, (It's essentially the same plot structure as the Count of Monte Cristo!),sword and sorcery, film noir,samurias, westerns, you name it you can run this game in it. That's what I love about games like Sorcerer,MLWM,Inspectres, they extract the core dramatic structure around which particular tales are told and base the game on that rather than worrying about the weight of a battle axe,or how much it's penetration compares to .38 special. When you do the production version you should include a numberof example character froma variety of settings.

3. Low setup. Almost no setup, once the character and The List' are created you have everything you need to know for the entire character's 'campaign' in one place, on a single sheet. How neat is that? How many conventional rpgs can say that?

All of the above are features I think are important enough to mention directly in the cover blurbs and promotional materials.

Now one issue do have is the use of 'funny' (non d6) dice. I think games aimed at breaking into the mainstream (and I think all indie games should be thinking like this) should place as few barriers to immediate play as possible, and making them go to a special shop to purchase special dice is just such a barrier. Yes I know you want to have a wider linear range but there are ways to emulate this . Also have you considered playing cards?

Glad to see you have a forum set up. Like the look. Listen to the playtests, tighten down the bolts on this sucker and roll it out as a for-money PDF, it looks like a winner to me!

No serious comments. I'd just like to throw in another 'Oooh, shiny' voice, with the wistful desire that I could have eaten your brain and written this before you.

Sorry for the delay in the finished product, I've got a website job that has a deadline tomorrow afternoon and pays too well to decline. Will finish this sucker asap though. grumble grumble, "damn real estates" grumble

No GM. This is a major thing with me, I really believe that the need for a GM is a factor in the difficulty keeping groups together. Plus if you read lots of rpg.net you can see a surpising number of people whining about how they get pushed into the GM role. Scarlet Wake is an antidote to this, tired GMs can whip it out on nights they feel like playing and groups can play it if their regular GM is indisposed....

It's setting independent.

Low setup. Almost no setup, once the character and The List' are created you have everything you need to know for the entire character's 'campaign' in one place, on a single sheet. How neat is that? How many conventional rpgs can say that?

All of the above are features I think are important enough to mention directly in the cover blurbs and promotional materials.

Now one issue do have is the use of 'funny' (non d6) dice. I think games aimed at breaking into the mainstream (and I think all indie games should be thinking like this) should place as few barriers to immediate play as possible, and making them go to a special shop to purchase special dice is just such a barrier. Yes I know you want to have a wider linear range but there are ways to emulate this . Also have you considered playing cards?

I finally got a chance to sit down and read through the rules. And let me say again, this game is excellent!

The only problem (at least for me) was the section on how to generate Peons for Bosses. The whole thing with the Peon modifier seemed a little murky to me.

Assuming I did understand it correctly, I'd actually suggest a minor rules change here, and instead of having Peon points buy different amounts of Peon levels for different level Bosses, I'd just up the Peon points at each Boss level. Saying that you have Peon points equal to 50 times the Peon modifier and that each Peon point buys a "rank" of a Peon might make it easier to conceptualize. This still allows you to generate the same Peons as the previous system, if you want, but it also adds a little flexibility.

For example, in the current system, as I understand it, The number 5 Boss can only have Rank 1 Peons and Rank 5 Peons. Using the system I suggest, the number 5 Boss could have, say, 25 Rank 5 Peons, or 125 Rank 2 Peons, or 100 Rank 2 Peons and 5 Rank 5 Peons, etc.

Or you could just reverse the order of The List, and make the number 1 Boss the easiest and the number 5 Boss the toughest. In addition to seeming more intuitive to me, this would eliminate the need for spelling out a special "Peon Modifier" -- you just say you get 50 Peon points for every Boss level.

I don't know if it's just me, or if the current method is confusing to others. But upon reading the system, using Peon points to purchase Peons was the only confusing mechanic I came across. Everything else was so silky smooth, that this stuck out to me like a sore thumb.

Does anyone else share that opinion, or disagree with it? Do the methods I suggest seem easier to understand, or not?

Ravien wrote: I'm thinking that I may try to make two versions of this game, one using d6s or something, and seeing how that works out. This version d6 version could be the "mainstream" one.

One rule that seemed odd (not bad, mind you, just odd) to me was the naming convention stated in the rules (e.g. Violent Angel, Crimson Ghost). Is this a Kill Bill thing? I actually haven't seen either movie.

No, Kill Bill uses names like "Copperhead" and "Black Mamba" and stuff, basically names of snakes, because they all belong to a group called the "Deadly Viper Assassination Squad" or something.

I just like the idea of forcing players to use cool names that sound like code names and sorta help to elevate the characters above the level of normal humans. Names like Violent Angel and Crimson Fiend just sound like names of people you don't wanna mess with. I dunno, it might also help to dehumanize the characters so that it's easier for the players to revel and enjoy the carnage and pain that they cause. Or maybe I just like the sound of those sorts of names. ;)

-Ben

P.S. If you do see the movies, I bet you would find a lot of things falling into place as to why they are there and how they work, especially the Binds, Dilemmas, and Fuel/Fire thing. I recommend the movies to anyone.

P.P.S. I am still thinking about the peon mechanics. It's really hard to explain my current system clearly, and even harder to come up with an alternative which allows what I want. I'll give you a proper reply when I find an answer.

The Deadly International Viper Assasination Squad...Or DIVAS (note that the assassins, with the excepton of Bill, are women.

Trevis

The Deadly International Viper Assasination Squad...Or DIVAS (note that the assassins, with the excepton of Bill, are women.

I'd just suggest that higher abilities mean adding +1 to your die roll on a standard d6, as opposed to going up a die type. You lose a bit of variance in your outcomes (1d6+1 never rolls a 1 or an 8, whereas 1d8 does). But the main effect of that is to make higher-level characters harder for lower-level ones to touch, which isn't really relevant here as a horde of Peons is almost treated as one big multi-legged character.

A quick thought on death-

You may want to include the possibility (as either an option for the player of a character, or something a Boss can spend Kick on) to actually kill a character if they fail to escape a Bind.

This may only be possible if the Boss is presently being hunted by more than one Hero, or is the last boss on someone's List.

It feels more true to genre, to me, if the Bad Guys can win, in the end. It may be unlikely that someone as cool as you could do anything but escape the Bind- but sometimes, you kill Bill, and sometimes, Bill kills you.

This can also play to the competitive angle of the ACs- to make sure the final encounter is as Hard As Possible.

Well, I've just finished printing the playtest rules, and will probally organize a game of SW in the near future. I'll let you know how it goes.

Oh my god... SW. Scarlet Wake. Star Wars. Scarlet Wars. A group of Rebels, out to take down the Empire's worst. Quintin Lucus. :)

Hello,
I took just 3 seconds to look at the book and the artwork hit me in the face.

WOW!! What a cool looking book!

Don't worry about marketing it. Just find a few people that love it and they will sell it.

Word of mouth is still the best type of marketing.

All you have to do is get a few people to try it and if they love it, they'll sell it.

You could always advertise on rpg.net that you will give it away for a week for free. This will get people to start playing it. It will grow from there.

Anyway, good luck with the game.

:)

Hello,
I took just 3 seconds to look at the book and the artwork hit me in the face.

WOW!! What a cool looking book!

A quick thought on death-

You may want to include the possibility (as either an option for the player of a character, or something a Boss can spend Kick on) to actually kill a character if they fail to escape a Bind.

It feels more true to genre, to me, if the Bad Guys can win, in the end. It may be unlikely that someone as cool as you could do anything but escape the Bind- but sometimes, you kill Bill, and sometimes, Bill kills you.

Ben, that last idea is so cool it needs to go into the rules.

-Mark E.

Ravien wrote: I'm definately not sure about this. I can't think of a single movie where the bad guys win. Or book.
-Ben