OK, I am working on my own Sorcerer setting, to be developed as a mini-sup.

I am in the very initial stages, reading, making notes, researching. What I wanted to know is if anybody else is working down this road already. And some creative input and pointers of course ;)

DARK PLACES
The setting is USA after 1945, primarily inspired by the novels by James Ellroy, but also Chandler, DeLillo and even Hunter S. Thompson.

Player characters are not really sorcerers, but characters who have traded part of their soul to get what they wanted on a short term basis. The catch is that the deal is long-term. They could be any type of people inhabiting the above mentioned novels. Police officers, PIs, politicians, civil servants, criminals, agents, soldiers, sports stars.

Instead of initially summoning a demon, a PC is offered a deal of some sort, which he accepts somewhere in his/her backstory. You want your wife back? Here's the deal, and hey, it even makes you stronger. You want your depts cancelled in one stroke. That's easy, here's the deal, and it'll make you incredibly lucky in the future as well. It's a win-win situation, see?

I want demons to be inner demons mainly. Alcoholism, drug dependency and the seven sins sloth, wrath, greed, lust, pride, envy and gluttony.

As of now, I see Humanity as the soul, and zero Humanity as damnation as per Sorcerer's Soul.

So, who is offering the deals? Well, maybe other people trying to get rid of their own inner demons, passing them on so to speak. The only way to banish a demon is to convince somebody else to bind it.

One problem is to keep it in noir-style without having too much of demonic ritualistic sorcery, but still making use of Sorcerers's possibilities, and I am not sure how to do that.

Per

May I riff on your idea a bit?

I think Lore is your keystone for the Deal.

Lore descriptors cover the scope of the initial favor, with the first Demon being what they received to cover the Deal. Its Need and Desire reflect the nature of the Deal, as do its Abilities.

When a bargainer gets Wise to the game, he can use the unholy insights gained through the initial Deal (i.e. his Lore) to cut new deals. The deeper in he gets (the higher his Lore) the more pull he has with whatever the powers that be are.

When a bargainer raises his Lore to 5+, he gets Wise, and can then Contact, Summon, and Banish. Before that, he can still Bind and Punish.

Some possible Lore descriptors:

Lore 1-2
Petty- your bargained your soul for something pathetically minor. Your Demon is likely very specific and fairly easy to manage (likely Abilities- boost stamina, cloak, special damage).
Lucky Break- you needed a bit of luck, and something gave it to you. Your demon is subtle but helps out in many ways (Cover for you to use, Boost Will, Psychic Force).
Greedy- You wanted more of everything you already had, and you got the means to get it (Speed, travel/transport, perception, warp)

Lore 3-4
Payback- you wanted revenge...you got it. (Special Damage, Boost Stamina, Vitality, Armor, or for more subtle fem fatal revenge, boost Will, Cover, Psychic Force, Shape Change)
Success- you wanted to be a professional success. (Cover, Boost, Perception/Warp)
Death Fear- fear of death drove you to bargain for your soul (vitality, armor, speed, cloak)

Lore 5+ (in addition to Wise)
The Big Man- you wanted all the power and all the chicks and all the money all the time. You got it. Now what? (Anything at all... Big is common).
Higher Purpose- you just wanted to help make the world a better place. You've laid some paving stones in the road to hell since. (Anything, but frequently Abilities will affect others).



You might want to lower the threshold for Wise to something easier to achieve, or make getting it a story event rather than a mechanical threshold.


Here is an example:

Detective Joseph Cade
Concept: an honest cop in a dirty city who succeeds more through bulldog tenacity than any exceptional ability.
Stamina 2 (Heavy Smoker)
Will 5 (Stubborn, Grit)
Cover: Detective 2
Lore 3 (Success: Joes wanted to actually be good at his job, not just go it. He tells himself he wanted to help people better, but his ego drove his Deal.)
Humanity 4

Demon
Brass Shield
Type: Object (his badge)
Desire: transgression
Need: For Joe to abuse his authority or use his position for personal gain.
Abilities: Cover (Detective, confers to Joe), Armor (confers to Joe), Perception (lies; confers to Joe), Perception (clues, confers to Joe.




-Ben

Hiya,

I guess I don't see where "soul" fits in for Humanity. In the sources you're using, it seems to me that the problem is winning half the moral battle through losing the other half.

Very Sorcerer, definitely, but none of it seems to involve the actual metaphysical presence of soul-stuff. Perhaps you could give an example of soul-oriented Humanity loss or gain, as you envision it in play?

Best,
Ron

Ron Edwards wrote: I guess I don't see where "soul" fits in for Humanity. In the sources you're using, it seems to me that the problem is winning half the moral battle through losing the other half.

Ron Edwards wrote:
Very Sorcerer, definitely, but none of it seems to involve the actual metaphysical presence of soul-stuff. Perhaps you could give an example of soul-oriented Humanity loss or gain, as you envision it in play?

If you want to use the soul concept, then make its risk fundamental to the way sorcery works (through Deals and Bargains and Lore vs. Humanity rolls) and make the loss of the soul the consequence or loosing all your Humanity.

Humanity becomes something like freedom, free will, or meaningful choice. Choices and making choices- often difficult ones- becomes the mundane humanity risking situation. Free-Will is powerful and valuable, and without it you loose your soul (and your character becomes an NPC). Loss of Humanity brings the consequences of your Deal closer and closer, narrowing your world, and reducing your meaningful choices. Noir is a pretty existential genera...sometimes, the only choice you can make is to just deal with it if you can't do anything about it.

The Deal, getting Wise, and loosing your Humanity becomes a downward spiral, as your actions become dictated by circumstance. Joe cuts a Deal for personal success, and is then driven further into a career and world he really doesn't like- suddenly, he's good at what he does, even if he hates it. It just got harder for him to give up the Badge and get another job, to change his life in meaningful ways, escape his rut. His Demon Needs him to abuse his authority, and so he chooses to steal money from the evidence room...just a few sawbucks to keep the Brass Badge from getting hot in his jacket pocket. He starts covering up, lying, conniving, and reacting- he isn't choosing his actions anymore, he is reacting to the cascade of circumstances. He’ll be beating the crap out of suspects next, fabricating evidence to put away the bad guys, and living his pockets.

When your out of Humanity, you’re out of Choices, and you’re out of time. Your soul slides away to those Powers who are waiting, and your character sheet to the GM.

Humanity = Free Will
Loosing humanity = Loosing your Soul.

How about that?

-Ben

Hmm, I was listening to a Johnny Cash song where he sings about leaving Cocaine Carolina to move back in with Suzy Skag, the only girl that really understands him, and it had a definite Sorcerer vibe to it.

I guess I'm confused. Are the Demons the Deals that the PC's cut with authority, or are the Demons the PC's vices, or both? It's a very interesting idea, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it.

DannyK wrote: I guess I'm confused. Are the Demons the Deals that the PC's cut with authority, or are the Demons the PC's vices, or both? It's a very interesting idea, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it.

Humanity Gain Situations:

Make the hard choice- take the road less traveled, own up to a mistake, choose to face consequences rather than flee from them. Accept the responsibility which comes from free will. If Joe finally goes to Internal Affairs and admits to being in on the corruption and influence selling going on in the department, he gets a humanity gain roll. If he then helps IA investigate and bust other dirty cops, then he might get more.

Humanity Loss Situations:

React to escape consequences or Responsibility- When Joe shoots an unarmed suspect who turns out to be a hood trying hard to turn his life around, he has the choice to own up to his mistake and face the consequences, or to frame this guy to cover his own ass. If he goes with the frame-job, its a humanity loss roll.


Not all choices are significant enough to warent a Humanity check, but generally if they play into a character's Deal or he uses his Demon to escape consequences, then he'll get the check.

If Joe got caught swiping a few bucks from Evidence, he likely wouldn't get in all that much trouble, and this shouldn't warrent any kind of check... but if he uses his demon to fool the witness into thinking he only took a pack of smokes instead, he'll have to make that humanity check. Likewise, if his choice somehow tied into his Deal for Success.

Out and out rejecting one's Deal or refusing to use a Demon's abilites when they provide an easy out in a situation might also warent a Humanity gain check. While investigating a fellow corrupt cop for IA, Joe puts the Brass Badge in a drawer and goes at it with only his native wits and tenacity, then it might be worth a humanity gain check.

Doing the easy thing = humanity loss.

Doing the hard thing = humanity gain.

Something like this.


Edit: Oh! Just remembered what I intended to say above- Watch The Shield. Watch a lot of it. This is exactly what I'm talking about.



-Ben

Ben, great stuff :)

I don't want to press in into only a law enforcement template, though, but it's certainly a part of the setting.

I didn't like The Shield too much myself, but I agree that there is a lot of useful stuff in there. I'd like to keep the inspiration in the literature I mentioned, but TV and films are good sources as well. Bad Lieutenant, Mean Streets, Fingers, The Conversation, Heat, Ronin, that kind of stuff.

Per