Hello everyone, this is a continuation or new chapter in the discussion started over in this other thread. I've tried to incorporate a lot of the ideas and sentiments expressed, so thanks to all who have participated thus far.

Provided here is a new, lean and mean, stripped-down version of the manifesto. I think the manifesto will be more effective when each point is as clear and focused as possible. It's hard to argue and quibble about specifics when the points are so basic that it's nearly impossible not to see their value. That's the plan anyway. The points of the manifesto should be succinct.

That said, I also think providing a couple sentences of clarification under some of the points will be a good idea so first-time readers won't be scratching their heads over the context of the main points.

Also, I think it's important for the points to be worded positively rather than negatively. Instead of saying "I won't," we should be saying, "I will." Well, with one exception (#2).

Without further ado, here's my second pass. Dissect and discuss as desired.

The Greer Manifesto

1. I will describe and market each of my creations based solely on its own merits.

I will not place my creations under a single umbrella label, such as "Role-Playing Game."

2. I will not limit my creation's exposure to potential users in any way.

This means that I will explore any and all avenues of publication and sale, including those traditionally marketed towards the gaming community as well as more mainstream general interest venues, and everything in between.

3. The text of my creation must explain how the product is intended to be used, no more and no less.

For instance, I will not include a "what is role-playing" section, or similar essays. Nor will I leave out any explanations of important aspects of the product, assuming that the reader will know what I'm talking about.

4.Every element in my creation must have a compelling reason for its inclusion.

I will not saddle my creation with unnecessary baggage carried over from pre-existing products. Many elements in role-playing games (dice, reference tables, character sheets, equipment lists, numeric ratings, etc.) are a product of convention and "that's how it's done" thinking. I must carefully evaluate each included element in my products and eliminate those that are unnecessary.

5. The text of my creation will show the reader the respect due an equal.

For instance, I will not chastise the reader against using my product "incorrectly," nor will I talk down to the reader regarding the superiority of my product over others that have gone before.

Call me an optimist, but hypothetically, I think if a prominent RPG company adopted this philosophy, preferably applying it to a licensed game, it might work. I'd say that the most likely company to try this (which isn't saying much) and the most likely to implement it well would be Eden Studios.

Then again, it's late and I'm tired.

ethan_greer wrote: ...here is a new, lean and mean, stripped-down version of the manifesto....

Greer Manifesto, Version -0.75

1. I will describe and market each of my creations based solely on its own merits.

I will not place my creations under a single umbrella label, such as "Role-Playing Game."

2. I will not limit my creation's exposure to potential users in any way.

This means that I will explore any and all avenues of publication and sale, including those traditionally marketed towards the gaming community as well as more mainstream general interest venues, and everything in between.

3. The text of my creation must explain how the product is intended to be used, no more and no less.

For instance, I will not include a "what is role-playing" section, or similar essays. Nor will I leave out any explanations of important aspects of the product, assuming that the reader will know what I'm talking about.

4.Every element in my creation must have a compelling reason for its inclusion.

I will not saddle my creation with unnecessary baggage carried over from pre-existing products. Many elements in role-playing games (dice, reference tables, character sheets, equipment lists, numeric ratings, etc.) are a product of convention and "that's how it's done" thinking. I must carefully evaluate each included element in my products and eliminate those that are unnecessary.

5. The text of my creation will show the reader the respect due an equal.

For instance, I will not chastise the reader against using my product "incorrectly," nor will I talk down to the reader regarding the superiority of my product over others that have gone before.

...points to be worded positively rather than negatively. Instead of saying "I won't," we should be saying, "I will..."

Greer wrote: Version 1.0 (Greer): 25 June 2004

1. I will stop calling them RPGs. I don't write RPGs; I write story games.

2. I will not sell in the normal "gaming" channels. I will not sell my for-download products at RPGNow. I will sell them at Lulu.com or some similar general-interest venue. I will not sell my for-print products (if I ever have any) through standard gaming distribution channels. I will sell them through Borders and Amazon.com.

3. In my texts, I will not explain what role-playing is. I will limit myself to explaining how to play the game in question.

4. In my texts, I will make no assumptions about the reader. Everything gets explained at least once.

5. I will not adhere to the conventions of the hobby. (i.e. you won't see NPC, PC, XP, GM, RPG, XdY, or the like anywhere in my games.) I will create conventions for the individual game as appropriate when necessary (which will be rarely, I suspect).

from Greer Manifest Versions 1.0, 2.0 and 2.1

Enh, maybe.

I'll call bullshit on your assessment of 3.5's placement in #1. Solely on its own merits, my ass. It marketed itself from the beginning as "the next, latest, greatest version of the world's most popular role-playing game with go-faster stripes."

As for the rest of it, I guess I see your point. But my question would then be, why do they have to be fightin' words? Why not just, make 'em think words?

Here's another pass, incorporating a few more words to give it some more fire and "make 'em think"-ness.

1. I will describe and market each of my creations based solely on its own merits, without reference or deference to any product, or indeed type of product, that has come before.

2. I will explore any and all avenues of marketing and sales, not limiting myself to the venues traditionally utilized by the hobby.

3. I will not include a "what is role-playing" section, or similar essays. Nor will I leave out any explanations of important aspects of the product, assuming that the reader will know what I'm talking about. I will explain how the particular product is to be used, no more and no less.

4. I will not be governed by the conventions of the hobby. The common trappings such as dice, numeric ratings, character sheets, reference tables, etc. will be used only if there is a compelling reason for their inclusion. "That's how it's done" is not a compelling reason.

5. I will not chastise the reader against using my product "incorrectly," nor will I talk down to the reader regarding the superiority of my product over others that have gone before. The text of my creation will show the reader the respect due an equal.

Better?

ethan_greer wrote: 2. I will explore any and all avenues of marketing and sales, not limiting myself to the venues traditionally utilized by the hobby.

"I will use guerrilla marketing techniques to reach into the hearts of under-exploited niches, bringing my art to the hands and hearts of new consumers!"

Even if the whole statement is silly, at least parts of it are good.

Chris (who wonders what it costs to advertise in highschool newspapers)

Hey Tim, good call. How's this?

2. I will market and sell my products without setting any preconditions on my potential audience. I will seek avenues of marketing and sales traditionally ignored by the hobby industry.

I cross-posted with Chris. Take 37:

2. I will market and sell my products without setting any preconditions on my potential audience. I will use each and every means at my disposal to bring my art to the hands of hearts of new consumers.

Highschool papers? Hey, that's a great idea. Well, it would be for anyone whose products aren't entitled "Thugs & Thieves" or aren't about torturing innocents. I'll just have to make a more school-friendly game, I guess... :)

Well, it would be for anyone whose products aren't entitled "Thugs & Thieves" or aren't about torturing innocents. I'll just have to make a more school-friendly game, I guess... :)

Heh! Ben, I agree with you that the kids wouldn't be the problem. I was talking about the adults in the school administration who likely would not want my advertising dollars. :)

Yeah, but I wrote guerrilla marketing techniques!

Advertise in their little school papers about story games and how they help you relate to members of the opposite sex. Give them a URL to go look at and list a date two weeks in the future when the world of story games explodes!

So that URL has an innocuous web site with some more-administration-friendly story games and essays with suggestions for fun teen activities and on that date, replace it with an all-hell-broke-loose version of your age with as much sickness as you can cram in per inch! The ad will have already run and you won't be able to afford to keep it going all year anyway. Some schools will call and cancel your ad, but they'll have to refund your payment, I think. It's a win-win -- guerrilla style.

Chris (I mean, it might work.)