Topic: 24 Hour RPG site live
Started by: Andy Kitkowski
Started on: 7/12/2004
Board: Publishing
On 7/12/2004 at 4:50am, Andy Kitkowski wrote:
24 Hour RPG site live
Man, I hate to turn the Publishing Forum into PR central, but here goes:
The cut of it is that the www.24hourrpg.com site is now live. Since Phil Reed started the project last year in Indie Game Design, there's been a lot of positive feedback, interest and submissions. So I went ahead and, having nothing better to do*, went and register the domain and pulled up a site. Check it out at the above URL.
Basically, the site is a place where the 24 Hour RPG Event will be listed, and will act as a storehouse for the files submitted for the event. I'm also looking to post a simple "Designer area" site with a mini-bio of all the folks who submit an entry to the event.
Anyway, the site's live, and you can check it out at www.24hourrpg.com . You can contact me there (or post comments here) if you have any questions.
Oh, and if you happen to run a webserver with a little free bandwidth and wouldn't mind hosting some files to help share the burden, please PM me.
-Andy
* I always have things to do, but you know how some people play video games or watch TV when they're supposed to be doing something else? I engineer Web Domains and Media Projects. Same effect, though, my other work gets stymied. :-)
On 7/12/2004 at 1:47pm, ethan_greer wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
Andy, you rock. This is a totally cool thing.
One editorial comment: Ack! Frames! Kill the frames!
On 7/12/2004 at 2:22pm, timfire wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
Since this is something that isn't totally Forge related, you should post a thread over at RPG.net in the 'Art of Game Design' forum. You would probably get a few takers.
On 7/12/2004 at 2:25pm, Ben Lehman wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
Has anyone notified Scott McCloud about the whole "24-hour RPG" thing? I think he might be tickled by it.
yrs--
--Ben
On 7/12/2004 at 2:27pm, Eero Tuovinen wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
This is a good idea. I've always felt that making 24h games a event in the Forge is quite arbitrary - what it is is better supported by a website than a forum.
Now, I see that you're still thinking along the lines of an event "Once every 6-12 months", but consider: wouldn't it be more sensible to structure your site to serve an around the year need? If I decide to take the challenge in, say, next January, why try to convince me otherwise? It seems just awkward to me to try to structure an event out of something that is so personal - there's no social ties in a speed writing challenge, so it's totally meaningless whether somebody else does it at the same time. Much better to choose your own date.
To emphasize, I have nothing against making it an event here in Forge, just to remind people that this is something they can do, too. For the website I however suggest that you structure any material with no "event bias": welcome individuals to take the challenge when they feel like it, and present all contributions without undue emphasis on any "official" Forge 24h material. Open up the site, put up a couple of automatic forms people can use to declare their intent to finish a game, and so on. It's much better that way than as a storehouse for a separate event.
Of course it's your site, and I'm not even going to participate this time due to time constraints. Just a friendly suggestion from the peanut gallery.
On 7/12/2004 at 2:32pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
Hiya,
I like the idea of removing the scheduling just as Eero suggests. When Phil ran it as an event here at the Forge, it was fueled by a lot of event-based enthusiasm - "Look everyone, see what we're doing!" which was a fine thing.
But I think the actual concept flies better in the long run as a personally-driven, personally-scheduled thing, with the website being a social touchstone that can serve the same "event enthusiasm" purpose in a different way.
Best,
Ron
On 7/12/2004 at 2:37pm, Ben Lehman wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
I think it might be possible to have the best of both worlds.
To draw from the source (24-hour comics):
1) Anyone can do a 24 hour comic at any time, and it "counts," for whatever that's worth.
2) But there is a special day set aside once a year for the production of 24 hour comics, where a bunch of people get together and do them.
May I suggest that the one "day" be fixed on the calendar and *after GenCon*
yrs--
--Ben
On 7/12/2004 at 4:04pm, philreed wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
Ron Edwards wrote: Hiya,
But I think the actual concept flies better in the long run as a personally-driven, personally-scheduled thing, with the website being a social touchstone that can serve the same "event enthusiasm" purpose in a different way.
Agreed. I think this is the best was to handle it. Ben's suggestion of "once a year special day" is also very good.
On 7/12/2004 at 5:12pm, Andy Kitkowski wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
Hey, thanks for the feedback, everyone. I'll post one mass reply here:
ethan_greer wrote: One editorial comment: Ack! Frames! Kill the frames!
Frameless navigation is for Uncircumcised Phillistines.
timfire wrote: Since this is something that isn't totally Forge related, you should post a thread over at RPG.net in the 'Art of Game Design' forum. You would probably get a few takers.
Totally- Open to all! And good idea on the Art of Game Design, we might get some takers there.
Eero Tuovinen wrote: Now, I see that you're still thinking along the lines of an event "Once every 6-12 months", but consider: wouldn't it be more sensible to structure your site to serve an around the year need?
Oh, totally! Sorry if the site doesn't convey that yet, but I'm basing the shape of the event on Phil's comments in the Design forum- In other words, setting a date as a "Share Date", just to get that solidarity and comraderie up. But the project is open 24/7, 365, for anyone who wants to participate on their own time.
Yeah, I just checked. The site doesn't specifically say that yet- I'll make that change in 1-2 days when I upload some files.
Ben Lehman wrote: To draw from the source (24-hour comics):
1) Anyone can do a 24 hour comic at any time, and it "counts," for whatever that's worth.
2) But there is a special day set aside once a year for the production of 24 hour comics, where a bunch of people get together and do them.
Ahh, exactly. At least, this was the jist of the Design thread. Sorry that my site wasn't clear on that. Again, I'll update that as soon as I can.
Ben Lehman wrote: May I suggest that the one "day" be fixed on the calendar and *after GenCon*
Heh. I'll leave that in Phil's capable hands. It actually looked like Phil was aiming at a date close to... say... this weekend. Or perhaps a 2-week period starting this weekend, or something. I'd actually prefer that, because I actually have some free time this weekend. :)
Again, though, ANY day is kosher. It's just that Solidarity occours on that one day or 2-week period or whatever.
Personally, I like the idea of the 2-week period (or "4 weekend days") rather than the one day, simply because there's breathing room there.
Finally, I think I'd rather take the project in the direction of Ben's suggestion over a "no set date" direction. Personally, I'm a lazy ass, and deadlines get my blood flowing and the synapses pulsing. For me, "24 Hours: ANY TIME YOU WANT!" would be a license for me to push my involvement back indefinitely ("Oh, this weekend I gotta watch Firefly again and brush the cat. Maybe next month."), but a "special day" or whatever would be like a gun duel between my willpower and designer motivation. I like the sound of that.
-Andy
On 7/12/2004 at 7:01pm, ethan_greer wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
Andy Kitkowski wrote: Frameless navigation is for Uncircumcised Phillistines.
Oh, the hell you say. :)
Frames screw up bookmarking.
Frames screw up search engines.
Frames screw up people browsing the web on a PDA.
Frames screw up printing.
Here's an article about this subject:
http://www.yourhtmlsource.com/frames/goodorbad.html
Anyway, it's your site, and it looks fine*, so if you're all about the frames then leave it as is. But I would advise against it.
* Except I had to resize my browser window in order to see the entire nav bar. You used scrolling=no, didn't you? Bad Andy! No cookie!
On 7/13/2004 at 2:34am, Andy Kitkowski wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
ethan_greer wrote: Except I had to resize my browser window in order to see the entire nav bar. You used scrolling=no, didn't you? Bad Andy! No cookie!
On the left nav bar? Wow, what are you using to browse the web, a Game Boy? :) j/k, it's all good. I prob will try a "frameless" version of the site later. I'd go with includes, but the submission and contact codes I use would be a pain to retrace.
And on the "back to the real" tip, I rewrote most of the site to correspond with what was brought up on this thread.
From here on, I refer to a single person who decides to engage in the project an "Event": "Participate in the 24 Hour RPG Event", etc. For the single date or range that we choose to have a bunch of folks go in and do it together, I am calling that the "Grand Act": "Participate in the Grand Act", etc.
I watch too much anime.
On 7/15/2004 at 12:18am, Emily Care wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
Ben Lehman wrote: Has anyone notified Scott McCloud about the whole "24-hour RPG" thing? I think he might be tickled by it.
Don't know if anybody's done it already but I have a mutual acquaintanceship with Scott, so I sent him a note about the 24 rpgs.
There's links to 24hr plays and 48hour films on his site. I think he'd want to hear about rpgs too.
--Em
On 7/15/2004 at 3:08am, Andy Kitkowski wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
Rock on, Emily, thanks!
I haven't had time to write a decent PR, I will in a day or two, but until then:
Look, ma, the 24 Hour RPG Grand Act begins this weekend (and last for three weekends total).
Thanks!
-Andy
On 7/15/2004 at 5:39pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
That's a cool kind of schedule. You are bastids for doing this just before GenCon, however. :-)
I have to disagree with the idea of people personally scheduling these things for themselves. I think that what makes them work is the idea that there are others out there at the same time making the same effort at the same time. That it is, in fact, an event, and not just something you do on your own.
One can run marathons on one's own, and compare times with other runners. So why do they all run together?
Mike
On 7/15/2004 at 5:53pm, philreed wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
Mike Holmes wrote: That's a cool kind of schedule. You are bastids for doing this just before GenCon, however. :-)
Look at it this way: If you create an especially cool game you've got time before GenCon to print a few copies and try to sell them at the show.
On 7/15/2004 at 5:54pm, Brett M. Bernstein wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
Agreeing with Mike, I thought the whole point was for everyone to work on this at the same time. Also, what happened to the 24 page requirement?
Are you changing what Phil already had laid down or this part of another endeavor?
On 7/15/2004 at 6:05pm, philreed wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
Brett M. Bernstein wrote: Agreeing with Mike, I thought the whole point was for everyone to work on this at the same time. Also, what happened to the 24 page requirement?
I had missed that the 24-page requirement was lost. I think that's important.
On 7/15/2004 at 8:01pm, Andy Kitkowski wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
philreed wrote:
I had missed that the 24-page requirement was lost. I think that's important.
Ah, ok- Yeah I took it out cause I didn't personally find it important, but if it's important to others, I don't mind readding it. Thing is, as I was going through old threads, I found this from Jeph...
I don't think anyone actually made the full 24 pages. Yee Olde West was 9, Vespertine was 19, Sunrise was 16, Pace was 18, Criminal Element was 12... hell, I think Vs. Monsters might have been the longest. And it was certainly the prettiest.
I don't mind making a game "24 pages" and then f-ing around with the font size to make it that long... but since none of the entrants last year (all talented individuals) couldn't make the full 24 pages... might it be an untenable, unreachable goal?
I absoloutely appreciate setting a goal that's tight, hard... strenuous... grueling, even. But an unattainable one? (or one that can only be met by "cheating"- changing paper size, raising fonts to 14-pt, etc)
If 24 is cool with everyone, I'll throw that up there tonight... but would a more tenable goal be more reasonable?
IMO, 24 pages in a comic is much more doable than in an RPG- You use space, panels etc to convey time and space... text, though, doesn't have that luxury.
Also, I just played around on MS word, created a few "generic sized" paragraphs, left the page size with the original margins, Letter Size paper, and left teh default font at 10 point Arial. 24 pages is about 16,000 words, give or take a thou. I'm not a big writer person, but is that tenable? I was under the impression that 1-2,000 a night is "hobby professional", 5,000 a night is "Stephen King"... Sure, many thousands of words will need to be written to get the game up, but is 16,000 reasonable? (I don't know, actually, I'm simply asking)
Again, though, I want to hear feedback on this. 24 pages? No page limit (mayeb not the best way to go)? Lessening the limit, and if so to what? etc
Or possibly even making a Word, rather than a Size, limit? That may fit the medium (text, not art) better?
Note, again, I'm not advocating anything- I just want to get some discussion on this before I post anything. Unfortunately, we have less than 48 hours to come to agreement before the first Grand Act. :-)
Philip- Are you on AIM, Yahoo, etc? I'm "Zigguratbuilder" on both- please hit me up if you use either. I figure we can hash this out in about 5 mins if we can converse.
-But also, would love to hear feedback from others here.
Thanks!
-Andy
On 7/15/2004 at 9:09pm, Andy Kitkowski wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
After talking to Philip, we're gonna go ahead and keep the goal at 24 pages. We'll "recommend it", but I'm gonna go ahead and push for it. We'll set it there this time around, and see what people can do. If we have everyone failing to meet that again, we'll reevaluate. But, theoretically, if you get inspired by The Muse, and everything falls into place, you should be able to make 24 pages.
Maybe. :)
We'll see. Again, 24 pages for now, we'll reevaluate after the Grand Act.
Thanks all!
On 7/16/2004 at 6:42am, Simon W wrote:
RE: 24 Hour RPG site live
I wrote Dreamscape before I knew there was a 24 page requirement (it has only 20 pages).
I started early because I didn't think I'd have a free weekend in the next three.
Oh well, I'll just have to do another, but it'll still have to be during the week rather than at the weekend.
If you want to check out Dreamscape, at the moment it can be found here
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/24HourGames/
but I'll put a copy on my website as soon as I can. I'm not entirely happy with vast chunks of it in the cold light of day, so I will have to do a major re-write shortly. Any comments/suggestions would be helpful.
I think with hindsight, I will rework the powers/abilities thing completely. I am wondering about a dice pool idea, with the Chargemaster character having a massive dice pool available to pass to other players as he sees fit.
Simon W