Hey everyone,

I have someone who has basically finished a novel for Pax Draconis and I'd like to help him get it published* on a POD basis with small print runs (something like RPGMall or Lulu.com would be nice). It would have to be something with runs less than 100 copies.

The issue I'm running into with those services (and others) is that the page counts for the book (it will be at least 350 pages even after I force the author to cut huge sections out) make the actual price pretty high - with a printing cost that runs upwards of $7 per book, I'd have to have a retail price pretty darn high to sell through distributors ($30 or more), and even if I sold it at cost, you'd be paying more for it than for, say, Robert Jordan's latest paperback.

I know that trade paperbacks like Jordan's are usually printed on web presses and in the tens of thousands, but is there a good POD alternative? We don't need the higher-quality paper stocks and such offered by most PODs.

On somewhat of a side note... does anyone have experience with RPG-related fiction for small press games? I'm pretty leery about selling very many copies, and the author is fine with that, since he sees it as a valuable way to get his foot in the door for other books.

Thanks!

* We're still working out the details on the publishing, but he's essentially self-publishing the thing - he'll pay for the printing, cover art, etc. and I'm providing the layout, ISBN and distribution channels. We'll share profits in some way, since the world is my baby, but he's doing the bulk of the work and investment.

Hi,

While I do not have first-hand knowledge of publishing, I have been doing quite a bit of research on alternative options to POD.

I found that there are a few publishers who will perform small print runs at a cost lower than POD.

One such publisher is http://www.morrispublishing.com. Ex: A 350 page book is $5.27/book for 300 copies. This publisher also has the ISBN service available.

If anyone has any information regarding publishing through this manner, I would appreciate the response.

Good luck on your publishing endeavors!

Monica

I am just learning the LULU basics (I was using RPGMALL for my printing) but LULU charges a smaller fee for distribution. I think they charge $4.53 for the print service normally or $1.56 if it is bought through distribution channels.

see this for pricing: http://www.lulu.com/help/node/view/295

Lulu.com was actually the first place I looked, but at $.02 a page, you're looking at $7 for a 350-page book, not including the cover (which is at least $1.50 more). At $8.50 per book, I'd need a cover price of $25 just to break even if I sold it to distributors - a pretty unreasonable price, and it doesn't include shipping costs either.

The best source I've found so far is Lightning Source, at $0.013 per page and $0.90 per book, for a cost of around $5.50 per unit and a minimum order of 25. If I forced some major cuts to the text, I could probably get this down below $4 a unit, which would be tolerable.

Monica, I have two sources I use for small run printing (runs of 250+). The first is Total Printing Systems (tps1.com, which is great because they have an online quote generator) and Woodinville Print (a local printer that I get good deals with, especially since I don't pay any shipping). Morris and Bookmasters are two others who have given me good quotes, but not good enough to woo me away.

The problem is that I have a hard time seeing game fiction selling enough to justify a run of more than 100 at the start... I guess I'll keep looking or keep it as an item I only sell direct from my website (further limiting sales, though).

But thanks for the suggestions guys!

With LULU, the book goes to distributors and it does not cost you anything. You do not preprint books. The distributor orders X, LULU then prints X and ships to them. Then you get Y (your royalties). No upfront cost from you at all.

If you have special distributors then maybe, but getting into Amazon, Barnes and Nobles and such will not cost you anythin but the ISBN fee, which you would have to pay regardless of where you go.

I am not 100% sure but I do not think the Lightning offers an ISBN service. This means you have to provide your own. If you want to go to distributors, then you need an ISBN.

Also, are you aware of the three tier pricing for distribution. A retail $25 book would be bought be distributors for normally around only 40% of that, or $10.

Thank you for the info. I'll have to check that website out!

As part of my research I stopped at a local store (nationally-franchised) called "AlphaGraphics." For an inexpensive binding their prices weren't bad. Is the quality of the binding important to you? For printing *.pdf's? They were super cheap! They only charge you for the time it takes to print, not the page count. Don't know if *.pdf is an alternative or not...

I know there is software available that can generate ISBN's. I do not want to misspeak, but you may be able to find it as free shareware.

Monica

ISBN's are not free.

In some countries they are inexpensive but in the US you must buy at least 10 at first equally $225 (can be as high as $350 if you want priority processing) then you may purchase them in any increment after that.

Software is used to turn the ISBN into a barcode. Most software is very inexpensive and even some websites will do this for $10. For distribution purposes all books must have a scanable Bookland EAN barcode made from the ISBN number assigned to that book.

No distributor will accept "books" without them.

Check out http://isbn.org/standards/home/isbn/us/isbnqa.asp for more info on ISBN's.

Keith, I'm selling game books through game distributors now (US, UK, Canada and hopefully soon Australia, Germany and Denmark), so I'm very familiar with how that goes. I also have a block of ISBNs, with about six unused so far, so I've got all my bases covered here except for getting a printing price low enough.

Even if Lulu sells direct to people like Amazon, I still need a high enough retail price. As their example shows, a $6 printing cost turns into a $22 cover price, for a $4 royalty. For a book that's just fiction, I'm really competing with $7.99 books, so ideally, I would like a price closer to $1 a book (which is probably not possible in small quantities through POD). At the worst case, I'd be unwilling to charge more than 11.99 for this novel.

And, I'd really much rather preprint the books and have them shipped to me so that I can ship them to distributors along with my regular orders. I also think it's a bad idea to let a printer send books directly to a distributor for you. You should have a chance to inspect the quality, report any damaged copies, and put your own invoice and shipping documents into each box.

Monica, for generating a barcode based on an ISBN, you can do it here: http://www.cgpp.com/bookland/isbn.html for free and without the need to download software. However, you still have to buy the ISBN, either from a printer/publisher who provides it, or direct from RR Bowker (a block of 10 cost $220 when I purchased mine a few years ago).

I will definitely check out Alpha Graphics. My wife used to use them through a business she worked for and swears by them. They couldn't give us a reasonable price on our core Pax Dracnois book, but perhaps for something like this, they'd be better.

NP, sorry if I came off as a little "snibbish" or whatever.

Even though I have been doing POD since Dec 03, I am just now getting into trying to get into distribution myself. Still learning all the ends and outs. The three tier system sucks no matter what you are putting out really, I guess.

Cool link to the free barcode generator and if you find a cheap printer post it.



BTW, damn I wish I had ISBN's lying around doing nothing.