Previous thread (obsolete)

INTRODUCTION

-All names are working titles only.

-No system yet, sorry. Don't read if hoping so.


*PRIMARY DIRECTIVES

-Non-geek-play: Anything at all that sounds a little bit geeky must be isolated for contamination, vapourized, and flushed. From the way the book sounds, to the way players likely talk. "Did you just cause a non-geek-violation!? QUICK! GET THE GEEKNESS-TERMINATION-SQUAD! (GTS)" GTS is our God. Kneel! Pray! Serve! Sacrifice the cliche of geek-play for the cliche of goth-dom.

-"Yeah, things are shitty." No hope, no salvation, idle consolation more annoying than hopeful. Players must leave play, wanting to mope arond like a good little goth saying: "I hate you. I hate everything. Go to hell. I want to die." Sound like fun!? *grin*

-NO POWER GOALS! Power has nothing to do with your Character. Getting power is worthless. Stupid. You hate power. You want revenge, death, love. Anything. Anything but obsessing over power. Power. Ptooey! Yuck! Get that sick, bad word out of your mouth. This rule coincides with the above two directives. (Sorry, I say "power" several times in this paper).


*GENRE

Modern Horror-fantasy.

(Elaboration as follows)

Modern (Real-world, no related geography).

Horror (tragic) - Fantasy (non-heroic).

Horror makes it scarry. Fantasy adds dry humour and the odd break so we don't take a twelve-gauge and show our true passions for the game.

Cool stunts, no plot. Shit happens (bad shit!), revenge sometimes. Mysteries are everywhere, nothing is really answered.


*STORY

Not much to understand, no history to really know of. (See "CONSISTENT NICHES" below). The odd human soul comes across an opportunity to become a PC through luck and determination. (Their life was a drama, so hence they get to enter a drama). "Dad beat up mom and one day I threw dad over a cliff. Then when I was a sixteen year-old runaway some guy came to me and said he'd been looking for me for a long time." -- "I died but didn't want to leave. Now I'm a ghost stuck between worlds." Yaddayadda, and so on.


*UNIQUE CONCEPTS

-Action dictates dice: Although there's standard rolls, you never really know what you'll be rolling except for what the action suggests. Basically, a list of things and their likelihood of happening. Chances for bonuses and such.

-Symbols for traits: Whenever possible, you use symbols instead of numbers and names. There are alternatives, however, just in case someone draws bad and debates what drawing is what symbol. Simple combinations of lines and curves all in the same area of a square (like graph paper).

-Roleplay dictates action: Sometimes you have to convince the GM your Character is doing it, as though telling your own concsience. Success depending on your style of argument.

-As with the third primary directive: A system is made so that players are motivated by something other than power. You can't go draining people and finding fuel like dropped coins. More internal. Get abilities or "points" by appeasing psychological needs. "You will gain 50 points if you convince Deborah to keep the baby. You get 40 points if you destroy Deborah altogether. Which one will it be?" (NOTE: "Points" is a temporary, inaccurate word).

-Physical characteristics are next to nill. No strength, constitution, etc. It's all you, your powers, your objective, your enemies, your mind.


*BASE ELEMENTS: Shadow, Forge, Glimmer, Storm.

-Shadow: A mix between ghosts, demons, vampires, etc. Tragic hero. Scarry and pathetic at once. (tattered, hateful, tormented)

-Forge: Closest to heroes. Warrior types (samurai, super-hero, scarry-beast) centered around materials (items, artifacts, D&D-like) "Stop screwing around and do it" types.

-Glimmer: Faeries, angels. Light at the end of the tunnel. Glee within the depression. Tricksters, majestics, artisans.

-Storm: Like blue from Magic: The Gathering. Dabblers of the esoteric. Of magic. Mergers with reality. Faceless. Complex. The least of literal power.

Each element has their own unique identity in at least the following ways . . .

-Disappearance in history (first point on "CONSISTENT NICHES"). Each type has a different way of having their actions fade in history. Eg: Shadow fades into some drab obscurity. Glimmer gets twisted into tall-tales unlike the originals (like children explaining experiences).

-Means of gaining power: The plots are bent to their style. Shadows want revenge, recovery, safety. Glimmer want revival, play.

-(OUT-OF-GAME) Style of display: The book/website style changes in discussing different niches. (So maybe primarily separated into the four groups, then some overview chapters).

-Style of power: Glimmers do fairly innocent but manipulative acts. Shadow can do savage or cold acts.


*HEALTH AND POWER

-PCs have no real corporeality. All attacks are toward their energies. Fuels of their power. "Vestiges." Levels of death through loss of power.

-Things are more emotion-based than strategic. Rage, fear, doubt, etc all have more bearing on success and failure than physical strength and such.

-Fluidity above direction. Ie: You -tend- to be capable of such-and-such as opposed to: "Okay I choose super-shield-mega-power, and launch a magic-death-ray-voltron-lazer"

*EXAMPLES OF COMMON ABILITIES: You can walk through the transluscent (windows) because you've ventured off of a solid reality. You can enter a person's head (maybe not literally), but you can get lost in their thoughts. You open a storybook and conjure something out of it, merely because it was enjoyed by many children. You get angry and the whole house starts to rattle while things start flying everywhere and you can't stop it.


*CONSISTENT NICHES

-All PCs have unique ways of disappearing from history. Not necessarily memory, but documenation. Deleted files, fading letters, distorted photography, decomposition of evidence. This is a convenient excuse for the question: "Well, why doesn't the government just identify everyone like the PCs and find weaknesses / cage / scrutinize them?"

-Because physical status is less relevant, there's no permanent damages like broken legs, etc.

-Fight scenes always with action: Cliche but still. Every fight scene has to be cool. Also, a distinct line between fight and non-fight.


*A FEW OTHER IDEAS

-Characters all have a "Group" profile. You choose multiple times from a list of generic societal groups, then generic positions in them. This gives you contacts, resources, obligations. But makes it more colourful than a Character sheet with direct: "Contacts, Resources, Influences" what-not. All of them have advantages and disadvantages.

-Static Traits locked in relation to create a profile: Group profiles work only with certain other group profiles. Psychological profiles. Ie: Such-and-such a nature doesn't work with such-and-such a group unless you have such-and-such an excuse. Just like being a certain type of PC can't have certain traits. So goes with powers.

-Players gain power for their Characters by representing them or writing about them. Eg: "Everyone write a first-person-story of your Character as the story goes along."


*FINAL NOTES

I've dragged this game through all sorts of genres (more D&D midieval style), completely different names. I'm torn between a more simulation-style game (but I hate games that aren't really games! There has to be definite rules and winning and losing!) And pure strategy (but they just get dumb and nerdy! Damn. I want purely strategic and purely dramatic!) Yeah, yeah. It's an old unsolved conflict.

I didn't understand the above post.

Could you give an example of play, please?

Perhaps I've rolled up to your house, and you've suggested we play this game that leaves players feeling mode suicidal than when they arrive. And I've replied, "OK, let's give it a go.". After having a look at the glossy rulebook (let's assume it's all ready written, published, and sold a million books), and I've said "I want to play an Angel or Glimmer.". Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to get the book yet, as it's sold out around the country.

Can you let me know what I need to do start play? What does my character and I do in the game after that?

Hm, while I like the general tone and mood in what you told us I still don't quite grasp what the game will be like. So, you have classes (Shadow, Glimmer, etc) which are, however, not a device of strategy but of drama? Alright, this feels a bit irky but I suppose it could probably work.

How does this thing with "no real corporeality" work? If I am a player in your game and someone walks up to my character and smashes an iron pipe into my face (for any dramatic reason that pleases you), what happens to my character?

And now comes the interesting part... Let's assume I arrived at your house shortly after Andrew and you guys tell me about this cool game and I want to join you. Andrew plays a glimmer but I'm already in a somewhat suicidal mood and want to play a Shadow. What now? Does it work? Will it simply be not allowed? How would it work?

Regards...

I think the whole goth thing, in fiction, crosses over the geek thing pretty extensively. You've got superpowers, extreme sympathy for losers, fetishization of paticular types of violence, angst, revenge fantasies, etc. I also think the macheivillian thing is a goth staple. Perhaps you'd like to illustrate exactly what elements you're trying to isolate/emphasize?

Thanks, Andrew and Sirogit. MrSandman666, I'll focus on your questions for this post so I don't fidgit with too much.

"If I am a player in your game and someone walks up to my character and smashes an iron pipe into my face (for any dramatic reason that pleases you), what happens to my character?"

You suffer damage as a corporeal would. But your injuries aren't biological. The class of your character (glimmer, and such) almost entirely influences (1) the symptoms of your injury, and (2) the effects afterward. An example . . .

Shadow: Gory bleeding, scar, stumble in pain. All temporary. Doctor finds nothing wrong with you. Probably accuses you of some prank. But you're quite immobile. Depending on your health mechanic (like say, this shadow feels strength in companionship and that becomes literal health), you can regain your physical prowess. Another shadow might not be so physically-inclined and have it pass right through him/her

"Andrew plays a glimmer but I'm already in a somewhat suicidal mood and want to play a Shadow. What now?"

Andrew is the light at the end of the tunnel. You're the anchor of reason in flighty dazzle.

(I'll put your own names as your character for now).

Skip to the asterisks to know what I'm getting at.

Why does Andrew want to be a glimmer? Did he see hope in his life, and feel a need to bring it unto others? Is he a childish hedonist that can't take his hands off his delights?

Did you become a shadow because someone forced you into it from your own merry life? Did you seek it through the occult? Are you forced under directives of a higher order?

*******(skip to the next asterisks for discussing mechanics)

Speaking to MrSandman666.

Okay, Andrew and you meet up in an inner city. Maybe a dice roll determined the place. Maybe traits on your Characters were bound to it. Andrew could have found you fascinated and wanted to follow. You could have felt that it's not too late for Andrew to consider what life is -really- like outside his fantasies (in your view), and want to convert him somehow.

You've been pining away at the death of uncle Leo from a bad liver after he fell into booze. You're stark-mad to destroy the corruption of alcohol and, coming across drunks in an alleyway, you beat them out of blind rage. Andrew gets terrified, but comes in to heal the poor victims; when a coloured wrapper of theirs catches his eye.

Back to reality . . .

We can certainly put mechanisms in the game to make that plot go further (the alcoholics are rejects from a cult that's trying to corrupt government. Whatever). Maybe Andrew doesn't just take delight to pretty things. There might be something more to them that should be investigated. The game master might have created an antagonist using generic descriptors in the game.

Plots could have three-way antagonism (or more) and niche against niche. Here's some excuses I can think of for opposition.

Glimmer vs Glimmer: One has been studying ancient texts for decades, trying to decode its answers which leads to an investigation outside (it mentions a name. Seek this person out. Find this ancient artifact). The other glimmer is motivated to tangle people in webs of meaningless confusion. Evil glimmer keeps feeding good glimmer lies secretly. Good glimmer works to find truth and gets tangled up.

Shadow vs. Forge: Shadow says "I hate these people and what they've done. Let them bathe in blood." Forge says: "You will get my co-operation if you choose to take revenge with honour. The crime has to have evidence. The penalty has to meet the decree. Refuse, and I protect them against you."

Forge vs. Forge: "The code you follow is hearsay." > "Put your sword where your tongue is" (?)

Storm vs. Humanity: Storm says: "You've been meddling with nature's equillibrium. I feel rage in the cosmos. You'll be swallowed by your own disruptiveness. I will bend your destruction against you."

******

I see no solution to all these vague possibilities except making big lists of different traits and possible ends / goals. It would take more time to do so, but I've made different lists like that. Basically, I start off generic as possible, and then I allow them plugins only with what seems interesting.

Making combinations require drama narrows the list of traits needed. (Eg: You work at a bank > You only work at a bank because you get access to the vault and not for a steady job."

The actual millieu (the source of the plot) varies game to game. There could be conspiracies, open rebellions, etc, or the cruel joke of just leaving it blank.

*********

I'm praying I gave you some sort of literal example. Maybe I didn't.

Oh heck. I'd like to no-rules test the game you've suggested (a Glimmer with a Shadow) in here if you like. Or somewheres else. All help appreciated either way.

I've copied the above alleyway set up into your play-test thread. Called the Glimmer 'Andrew' and the Shadow 'You'. And made a first 'move'.

We could play this Universalis style, with anyone who wants to taking over any character ... just to move things forward.

At the very least, we'll get a good playtest example for what seems like an embryonic cool idea.

Gaiaguerrilla wrote: Action dictates dice: Although there's standard rolls, you never really know what you'll be rolling except for what the action suggests. Basically, a list of things and their likelihood of happening. Chances for bonuses and such.

hix wrote: I've copied the above alleyway set up into your play-test thread. Called the Glimmer 'Andrew' and the Shadow 'You'. And made a first 'move'.

We could play this Universalis style, with anyone who wants to taking over any character ... just to move things forward.

At the very least, we'll get a good playtest example for what seems like an embryonic cool idea.

Lol. Thanks, everyone in the other thread. I admit this is getting fun.

Thanks for asking about that "action dictates dice" quote, hix.

"Action" was a poor choice of words on my part. Maybe I should have said "traits / qualities dictate dice" Or instead I should say: "The mechanic is not central to any part of the book, though the game does have a mechanic."

I mean something like this . . .

Let's say you flip through the rulebook and see: "Chances of flames appearing are one in four." Obviously, that's hinting: "Roll 1d4."

Throughout the whole game, you'd be relying on statements like this. So there's not necessarily a direct damage points system. Just "Flame burns of this magnitude cause this character lesions of that magnitude." (Like saying: "take so much flame damage.") Or "Stumbling over this means up to six levels of exposure. Each one as likely as the other." (In other words: "Roll 1d6 for level of damage."

So it really doesn't remove a mechanical system, just displaces it a little. The question: "Did I succeed, what are the side effects?" becomes answered with a matter of: "Check the rulebook for an equivalent of the action you just did, compared with the situation you're in."

Note: I have a small blurb on what I wanted to use for a die mechanic. Again, it does little to resolve the issue and just adds confusion, I found.

I get the funny feeling that you're wanting to write a RPG system with an "invisible" system? One with "transparent" mechanics? Would that be right?

Just posted to the gametest, have to take off for a couple of days. Apologies, hope to read some cool stuff when I get back!

Re: disappearing from history ... ideas ...

SHADOWS: become bogeymen stories to scare young kids.
FORGES: become legends and the plots of half-remembered action movies and TV shows.

STORMS: Now this is tricky. I have no familiarity with Magic the Gathering so I don't know about blue mana PLUS it totally smacks of geekness. Suggest rewrite for clarity.

Gotta book,

Thanks, hix.

In responce, I threw in this, as a full introduction to the Glimmer (yeah, another braindump, I guess). You guys are helping out a lot.