Don't know if this has been done or thought of before... but Dro and I went to see Ghost in the Shell: Innocence last night. It was great. Much better than the original Ghost in the Shell.

Anyway, the (classic) theme to the movie is "What is it to be human?" This is a standard SF trope dating back to Fritz Lang's Metropolis on screen and HG Wells long before in print.

Sorcerer is tremendously well-suited to toying with this question in an rpg setting. Now I'm not a Sorcerer expert, so I'll just brainstorm a bit.

The humanity question for the setting/game is: What is to be human?

Demons are your mechanical/cybernetic implants.

Demons want to drive their host to be more machine-like and emotionless -- viz Batou's raid on the yakuza outpost. It is, in fact, their need to be more machine like. There is absolutely nothing evil about them.

Every time you engage those extrahuman abilities, you've got to make a humanity test for loss.

The host/cybernaught wants to remain as human as possible.
Doting on your dog or daughter earns a humanity test for gain.

Humanity dropping to zero can lead to catatonia, berserker psychosis and even something akin to the Major's fate: complete discorporation.


All of Batou's abilities are completely analogous to demonic powers with a parasite entity -- the telepathy, machine interface, increased prowess and endurance. He's close to the edge, very close.

Tagusa, his more human partner, only has the telepathic and interface abilities. He's much more human... Though ::spoiler deleted! that was close::

I think Sorcerer would make for a rockin, hardboiled, homme dur, cybernaught thriller.

Batou only barely manages to hang on at the end -- forcibly summoning his humanity to save him -- but really just barely.

rock on.
-L

Greetings!

I have thought about this for a while now. I think Sorcerer is the perfect match for a setting like that. It is rife with internal and external conflict, tension between the "demon" technology and the Humanity of the user.

If you are inspired, and it looks like you are, I say run with it!

-Angelo

I hate to be the guy who says "read the book," but...

Ahw, who am I kidding? I love being that guy!

Read the manga. It more or less spells out exactly how the world works in Sorcerer terms. Although I would say humanity isn't just acting like a human, because there are machines that do that, as well as imprinted androids. Rather, I'd say humanity is a sense of self.

This is what the Major sacrifices in her binding of the Puppeteer that puts her over the edge, for instance.

There is a scene in the Manga where the major is eating lunch with a girlfriend, who is also a full-conversion cyborg. The Major, rather dismally, mentions that the only thing that they really have left from their original bodies is a few pieces of brainstem. "If those were removed," she says, "would anyone notice? Would we?"

"Hey!" replies her girlfriend, "that doesn't matter. I'm me, brain cells or no." (something along this lines, I don't have the book handy.)

*that*, to me, is your line for Humanity.

yrs--
--Ben

Hi folks,

I'm with the idea of sense of self being Humanity, although I think folks are reading it completely wrong.

The first movie(and manga) didn't chronicle the Major losing her Humanity, but rather the puppeteer merging with her in order to gain it. In the second series of manga, she definitely has a strong sense of self. The whole premise behind the Ghost in the Shell series is the blurring line between humans and machines, and them crossing the lines back and forth. The term "Ghost" is literally whether someone has humanity or not.

As far as Sorcerer goes, I don't see the loss in having or using cybernetic parts, or interfacing with machines... I see it happening when someone blurs the line for themselves: treating machines over people, or treating people like machines...

Chris

I didn't say it that having machine parts made you less human. That's what makes Batou so great. He's more machine than anyone, but desperately clinging to his rich humanity.

Giving in to his machine nature -- slaughtering yakuza, or even just blasting through ghost dubbed dolls -- makes him less human.

Batou makes a humanity check in the first scene of the movie. There's no question. Using his cyborg reflexes to kill another machine -- which is designed to be more human than him -- drives him crazy.

Obviously, the situation can be more subtle and complex than that, but in broad strokes, that's where it's at.

-L

PS Ben: Back off. I've read the GitS manga. I'm talking about the film Innocence and the "what is it to be human?" theme of SF.

abzu wrote: PS Ben: Back off. I've read the GitS manga. I'm talking about the film Innocence and the "what is it to be human?" theme of SF.