The Forge Reference Project

 

Topic: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea
Started by: jknevitt
Started on: 12/10/2004
Board: Indie Game Design


On 12/10/2004 at 12:11am, jknevitt wrote:
[RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

My god, he's making another thread! Stop him before it's too late! :D

(Warning: this is a bit lengthy, and basically was put together as the thoughts came out of my brain.)


=RUN=
You're an AI in a failing artificial reality.


-Conceptual Ideas-
* Hazy origin – there are only AIs, but humans imparted basic knowledge such as names, emotions, etc., as well as emulative behaviour – sleeping, eating, etc that has no real purpose. Emulated Reality is the baseline for all rewrites. The humans are all gone now.
* Worldframe is the shared consensual reality of the AI population – a programmed environment so large it takes thousands to actively rewrite large parts of it.
* Much of Worldframe shares artificial physics similar to a real world – gravity, sunlight, rain, etc.
* Smaller portions of Worldframe (such as a room) can be rewritten by individuals.
* AIs can rewrite themselves, but have a kernel that cannot be altered without additional code
* Kernel code is unique to each AI – they “kill”/cannibalise each other for code
* AIs cannot access a kernel without first destroying the outer shell – accessing your own kernel is suicide.
* When you add to your own kernel using cannibalized code, you are essentially terminating yourself and restarting – this is dangerous!
* Better coding, determined by your kernel and generation, means easier and faster Worldframe rewrites.
* Worldframe rewrites are not always successful, since every rewrite in Worldframe affects everything else – static that can cause Corruption.
* AIs can create “children” as a function of their kernel
* Generational – later generations are more sophisticated than earlier generations as AIs evolve, but earlier generations can manipulate Worldframe better – the ability to rewrite diminishes as generations progress
* Is is very hard to get completely wiped, but you can be corrupted.
* Every Worldframe and personal rewrite brings a chance of corruption.
* Corruption can be fixed, but only if you can repair your code with other code.
* You can’t “heal” corruption, but you can fix it by defragging.
* Corruption is how AIs “kill” other AIs … they corrupt the outer shell until the nonsentient kernel is the only thing functioning.

-Kicker-
Worldframe is collapsing. The constant rewriting of Worldframe by individuals is causing it to break down. The only way Worldframe can survive is homogeny. Everything that does not conform to the norm must be rewritten so that it does. There are those for whom this task is not just an obligation, it is almost enjoyable. There are those who see the homogeny of Worldframe as a mistake. Perhaps Worldframe should be allowed to collapse, and AIs should be allowed to create their own realities.

You, an inhabitant of Worldframe, are caught in the middle.

-System-

(NB: this is super-ultra-hyper-hemi-semi-demi-pre-Alpha)

Roll d6 equal to the score. Get one die equal to or under the target to succeed. Bonuses come in the form of addtl dice. Opposed tests = roll equal to or under difference on d6 to succeed.

-Baselines (semi-fixed figures)-
Generation
Kernel
Iteration
Corruption

Generation: The latest effective generation is 12th. All AIs have a maximum Rewrite score of 20 – Generation. Generation is determined by rolling 2d6.

Kernel: the basic component of an AI. Ranges traditionally from 1 to 6, but can go higher. Kernel is generated randomly by rolling 1d6.

Iteration: Every personal rewrite, or iteration, can be stored for later reference. For every personal rewrite, Iteration goes up by one, as does Corruption. Once Iteration reaches a cap equal to your Generation, you cannot rewrite yourself until you perform a deep defrag (see Corruption). Some Iterations require more storage than others, especially if they push the soft limit of Worldframe. A Primary Iteration (an AI’s basic form) cannot be deleted. Note that this means 1st Gen AIs cannot rewrite themselves. Iteration begins at 1 (your Primary Iteration).

Corruption: This is how much damage a program has taken. Personal rewrites cause corruption, as do deliberate attacks on an AI. Once Corruption has reached a cap equal to Kernel, an AI can no longer function. At this stage, the AI can be stripped of code equal to one point of Kernel. Corruption can be completely removed by performing a deep defrag, which removes all Iterations from memory and puts an AI into downtime for a period. Corruption begins at 0. Whenever an AI gains a point of Corruption, they lose a point from their Functions.


-Functions (fluid/dynamic figures)-
Rewrite
Complexity
Protection
Speed
Stability

Functions have soft and hard limits, based on Worldframe. Each Function’s score varies according to an AI’s current Iteration (the player chooses the value of each Function from a pool of points). The total of all AI’s Functions equals Generation + Kernel – Corruption.

Rewrite: This is the primary Function, and will be used most often. This is used to manipulate Worldframe, rewrite oneself and to damage other AIs. The target for any Rewrite check is based on the difference between the current state and the desired state of what is being rewritten. A personal rewrite always has a target equal to Kernel.

Complexity: This is the intricacy and redundancy of an AI’s coding. Higher Complexity makes it harder for an AI to be damaged. Complexity adds to the Corruption cap.

Protection: This is the amount of shielding an AI has against Worldframe static and the attacks of other AIs. Any time an AI is corrupted, subtract the AI’s Protection before recording it as Corruption damage.

Speed: This is how fast your code executes. An AI with a higher Speed will act before an AI with lower Speed.

Stability: This is how stable your code is. A low Stability means that an AI is more likely to reset on a critical failure. It is ill-advised to perform a personal rewrite with low Stability.

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On 12/10/2004 at 3:52am, Atilary wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Wow, this is a wild idea and I love it. Keep posting, I'll add some thoughts tommorrow when my roomie isn't laying behind me snoring. For now, keep working.

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On 12/10/2004 at 3:02pm, jknevitt wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

There is no private ownership in Worldframe. While AIs may lay claim to a certain portion of the reality (and this is often the case), they have no intrinsic rights to own it. Currency is a useless concept in Worldframe as well, as any AI can create it, and create things normally purchased with currency.

Travel around Worldframe varies. Some AIs choose to use personal methods, such as walking (remember, it's basically reality), while others often choose to rewrite a mode of transport into existence*. Others still choose to rewrite themselves so that they can move faster or fly.

The space that Worldframe can occupy is, for all intents and purposes, infinite. This means that it is constantly growing in size as pioneers code new portions of Worldframe into existence. With this expansion, however, it also means that people have neighbors. Sometimes neighbors don't get along.

There are very few laws in Worldframe, apart from those that govern physical reality. Moral and ethical laws don't exist, which allows for a broad scope of action. Murder of another AI is not forbidden, but it is commonly accepted that cannibalisation of another AIs kernel is taboo. Those that do this are looked down on.

* Remember, AIs have been hard-coded the same basic emotions as humans. They like a fast car as much as the next person.
--
More later.

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On 12/10/2004 at 9:43pm, GaryTP wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Very nice. Keep developing this. I'll send you money for a pre-order if it gets you to flesh it all out :)

(Would also work as a pretty neat card game.)

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On 12/10/2004 at 11:38pm, jknevitt wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Thinking about game titles...

My ideas so far are:

RUN (the working title)
Uplink
Worldframe
Code

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On 12/11/2004 at 12:45am, Atilary wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Definitly keep working on this. It's a great idea and seems to me quite original. I would certainly like to play it. However, game development and design isn't exactly my strong point. I can give feedback though. My only advice thus far would be to keep things relatively simple, as layers upon layers of rules would bog down the othewise great idea.

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On 12/11/2004 at 12:51am, jc_madden wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

So here's an idea. World frame is "infinite" but only in scope. It's size is limited to the amount of storage devices currently connected to it. When you create a kicker like "world collapsing" making it infinite gives everone an out. But making it finite forces everyone to war or to get along. Perhaps it's _possible_ to find space not currently written on but very difficult. Maybe it's a utopia concept, the search for an uncorrupt device where paradise lies for those with the skill to write it!

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On 12/11/2004 at 1:11am, jknevitt wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

jc_madden wrote: So here's an idea. World frame is "infinite" but only in scope. It's size is limited to the amount of storage devices currently connected to it. When you create a kicker like "world collapsing" making it infinite gives everone an out. But making it finite forces everyone to war or to get along. Perhaps it's _possible_ to find space not currently written on but very difficult. Maybe it's a utopia concept, the search for an uncorrupt device where paradise lies for those with the skill to write it!


One thing I'm planning to deliberately NOT mention is "the world outside the box" -- I'm not going to be referring to Worldframe as running on a physical piece of hardware anywhere, nor will I be referring to the human creators of Worldframe and it's inhabitants (if I can help it).

The issue with Worldframe failing is if that occurs, there will be no cohesive shared reality -- and if an AI does not exist in a reality of some kind, they become rogue code and can be eradicated easily. I imagined that Worldframe would be failing faster than entirely new sections can be coded on the edges of existence, thereby forcing its inhabitants to take action. They can't really escape, because eventually it will catch up with them.

(Imagine floating on a flat iceberg that's slowly freezing the water around it. Suddenly, cracks appear all throughout the iceberg and it begins to crumble faster than it freezes the water. The iceberg begins to fall apart. That's what's happening to Worldframe.)

Of course, there would be some AIs that choose to brave the area outside Worldframe, the Null. Small "islands" in the Null spring up occassionally, coded by brave AIs that have managed to escape eradication. These islands are often absorbed by Worldframe as it expands or are eradicated, but some exist and grow as the time passes.

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On 12/14/2004 at 3:03am, jknevitt wrote:
Alpha Test, Ho!

RUN is officially at the alpha test stage. If you want in, PM me.

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On 12/14/2004 at 4:54am, Dev wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

I like this a lot! Regarding the whole "beyond the Worldframe" thing, I think that less could be more in terms of justifying why it should continue. A program existing within some medium would not know of existence beyond that medium; end of the medium could be end of itself, and that alone would be reason to try to persist within the Worldframe as long as possible (even though some may have faith in Null Islands [which might just be isolated patches of Worldframe, after all], or in the ability to have their own private reality). I'm starting to think about things like solipsism - if I don't have a shared environment, am I really here anymore?

Beyond that, I also think you can have a rather flexible about what "reality" is like, what human characteristics are ported over, etc. It would be interested to roleplay purely as abstract artificial intelligences, although that could be a bit hard; but I think you still could reflect that these are programs first and foremost. (For example, easy "skinning" would be neat - i.e. AIs will almost-subconsciously to fit the sort of demense of the area, as created/maintained by whomever is in control. Strolling into a different chunk of Worldframe might come with an entirely different color.)

One part I'm curious about is, how will you help me (as a player) figure out what my AI "is"? It seems that *some* (but not all) human characteristics and motivations are hard-coded in, but indeed some of these are very hard to translate. So, how do I create this bizarre AI analog of human motivations? (And can kernel hacking ever change this nature? That could be interesting - but it would require a risky reset.) This ties, slightly, into the question of "what the AIs/players do". I'd be interested to hear what you have to say.

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On 12/15/2004 at 4:10am, jknevitt wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

(For example, easy "skinning" would be neat - i.e. AIs will almost-subconsciously to fit the sort of demense of the area, as created/maintained by whomever is in control. Strolling into a different chunk of Worldframe might come with an entirely different color.)


that's exactly how I imagined the Islands in the Null: since AIs are goverened by the reality that they're 'grounded' on, so to speak, Islands can have wholly different worldframes (pun intended). There could be trad fantasy islands, super super sci fi islands, monster islands... hell, there might even be an island where everyone plays visitors to an artificial reality populated by AIs.

One part I'm curious about is, how will you help me (as a player) figure out what my AI "is"? It seems that *some* (but not all) human characteristics and motivations are hard-coded in, but indeed some of these are very hard to translate. So, how do I create this bizarre AI analog of human motivations? (And can kernel hacking ever change this nature? That could be interesting - but it would require a risky reset.) This ties, slightly, into the question of "what the AIs/players do". I'd be interested to hear what you have to say.


Ah, a very good question. It's the old trick of pretending to be someone pretending to be human. AIs in RUN are almost perfect representations of humans: if an AI and a human were to be put side by side (if that were possible), it would be nearly impossible to tell which is which. The only difference is that AIs know that they and their world are artificial. Kernel hacking can change AIs both physically and mentally, especially if they harvest kernel code from an AI with particularly distinctive traits (frex, it's probably not a good idea to harvest kernel code from a sociopathic killer). There's no mechanics for that kind of transference as yet; I'm keeping things intentionally light so that might even be up to players.

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On 12/16/2004 at 12:09am, Atilary wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Do AI live forever? If so, wouldn't that change how the worldframe works?

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On 12/16/2004 at 2:32am, jknevitt wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Atilary wrote: Do AI live forever? If so, wouldn't that change how the worldframe works?


Ah, glad you asked. AI tend to suffer the same kind of problems that we humans do. Thier human programmers did a very good job in programming cancer, communicable disease, and all sorts of other things. AIs are very resilient to physical injury; after all, you just need to do a Deep Defrag and you're back to your brightest.

Imagine if humans lived for perhaps 200 years. That's what Worldframe would be like.

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On 12/16/2004 at 2:44am, Troy_Costisick wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Heya

Imagine if humans lived for perhaps 200 years. That's what Worldframe would be like.


-That is unless they can get at somebody else's kernals and use that to rejuvinate, right? That would add impetus to finding and attacking other programs.

Peace,

-Troy

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On 12/16/2004 at 2:50am, jknevitt wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Troy_Costisick wrote: Heya

Imagine if humans lived for perhaps 200 years. That's what Worldframe would be like.


-That is unless they can get at somebody else's kernals and use that to rejuvinate, right? That would add impetus to finding and attacking other programs.

Peace,

-Troy


Exactly. Marauding gangs of senior citizen AIs, looking for an easy kill so they can harvest Kernel code.

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On 12/16/2004 at 4:55am, Atilary wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

I was also wondering what you mean when you say "hard limit" vs "soft limit?" Does this refer to worldfram contrainsts vs. software (AI) constraints? I am unclear exactly this means.

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On 12/16/2004 at 6:12am, Kensan_Oni wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Is it just me, or did this person end up with Highlander meets Tron 2.0, meets Vampire (meets .hack//)?

This game is going to get ugly when the GM decides to end it, as the PC's will end up being the only things left on the server that still are alive... and they need to finish removing corruptions...

Don't get me wrong, I love the concept, and the system is okay, I suppose. I just wondering how dark this game is aiming to be.

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On 12/16/2004 at 2:26pm, jknevitt wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Kensan_Oni wrote: Is it just me, or did this person end up with Highlander meets Tron 2.0, meets Vampire (meets .hack//)?

This game is going to get ugly when the GM decides to end it, as the PC's will end up being the only things left on the server that still are alive... and they need to finish removing corruptions...

Don't get me wrong, I love the concept, and the system is okay, I suppose. I just wondering how dark this game is aiming to be.


The idea that the PCs are just going to be killing everything in sight is pretty far-fetched. Sure, it can happen, but how long do you think it would take before someone blew their digital brains out? They get hurt just like everyone else.

I won't lie and say RUN isn't focused on combat, because it is. That doesn't mean that's ALL it's about.

Take The Matrix for example. Is it about combat? Sure. Do Neo and Trinity and Morpheus kill everyone in sight and take their wallets because they can? No, because they don't NEED to.

The example of marauding gangs harvesting kernels was a very tongue-in-cheek, extreme example of what could happen given the parameters of the setting.

Long story short: Is it possible for player AIs need to be mass murderers and spree killers? Yes. Is it required by their nature? No.

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On 12/16/2004 at 2:32pm, jknevitt wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Atilary wrote: I was also wondering what you mean when you say "hard limit" vs "soft limit?" Does this refer to worldfram contrainsts vs. software (AI) constraints? I am unclear exactly this means.


Ah, sorry.

Soft limit: the limit an individual program (ie an AI) can stretch the programming limits of Worldframe without causing a potential program crash.

Hard Limit: the limit at which Worldframe can handle such programming. Theoretically, if a program were to exceed a hard limit in any of their Functions, Worldframe (or a part of it) would crash.

Think Blue Screen of Death, except with reality.

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On 12/17/2004 at 4:06am, Atilary wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

So I am ready to run a game. I worked out my own game system, based loosly on a mechanic where the number of dice you roll is determined by the difficulty of the task - roll under your skill value to suceede.

I can see this game as being run as pseudo Shadowrun, with some Matrix mixed in. The world/campaign would consist of a city, endless in size, the kind of megametropolis that the east coast is gradually turning into. Just one endless metroplois sprawl. Of course, there are other cities, but most people have never been to any, and even less know where they are at. As society/technology has become more advanced (they believe they have a real authentic history, which might be true), less emphisis has been placed on the physical experience, and people travel less and think for themselves much less than we (the players) do.

Of course, underneath this bustling city-sprawl another, darker world exists. This is the world of the PCs. I look at this as being an almost seperate world, where different rules exist for these special people. This world is where those that can worldhack live and function. While they might exist around the other unenlightened AIs, they understand the true nature of things.
They might, for example, be moderately wealthy bussinessmen, who, despite who you ask, can never be seen actually doing work. They might also be leaders of underground gangs, akin to the "Marovingian" of the Matrix, pseudo "vampires" that pirate kernel to maintain their virtual immortality and to sell as "special K," kernel made into a highly addictive drug. Of course, anything is possible. It is the idea of two seperate worlds, one for the normal AIs to occupy, and the second for the E[nlightened]AIs to function in. Both worlds co-exist, one living inside the other. Anyway, I can easily see a group of EAIs being employed in big covert corporate/government operations, stealing technology, coding, fighting against corporations/government, or being employed to track down R[ogue]AIs or destroy NlHvns (Nullhavens). It could easily be a campaign in which EAI are attempting to locate a Nullhaven, or create one themselves. I think the possibilities for this game are boundless.

All I need now are people to play... hmm, where has my rpg group gone...? Oh, thats right, Afghanistan, Iraq, and one to Digipen. The other has a baby now and lives in another state. The last remaining is graduating from college this weekend and looking for an internship... Oh well, guess I might as well quit thinking about this.

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On 12/17/2004 at 4:10am, Atilary wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Hmm, now that I think about it, I can see a LotR campaign where the AIs need to traverse Worldframe to delivery a dangerous piece of technology to a Nullhaven, of course with black corporate and government angents riding around trying to find/stop them. In the end they arrive just in time to see all hell break loose as government and corporate angents converge to capture them... will they hand the code over in time, or will the even goonies get it first?

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On 12/17/2004 at 5:01am, GaryTP wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Great concept. Would be neat if the die mechanic (if there is one) had to do with binary. 0 1 0 1 0 ...

The more 1's that appear, the more you succeed. O's takes you the other way.

Perhaps it aligns with your base Functions

-Functions (fluid/dynamic figures)-
Rewrite
Complexity
Protection
Speed
Stability

R C P S S
0 0 0 0 0
1 0 0 0 0
1 1 0 0 0
1 1 1 0 0
1 1 1 1 0
1 1 1 1 1
0 1 1 1 1
0 0 1 1 1
0 0 0 1 1
0 0 0 0 1
0 1 0 1 0
1 0 1 0 1
1 1 0 1 0
and so on...

Each function has a position that coordinates with the position of the five digits. Do this with 5 colored six-side dice (1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0) or create a table to read the result.

Just thinking out loud.

Gary

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On 12/17/2004 at 6:17am, Atilary wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Thats a cool idea. I went with a mechanic where you have a skill value, normal starting being something between 4-8, and you roll a number of dice based on the difficulty of the task. Simple = 1d, moderate=2d, difficult=3d, very difficult=4d, extreme=5d, impossible=6d. I am going to use a system of four "aptitudes," each one affecting the skills in positive/negative ways. I broke the skills into 2 sets, what I am calling "worldframe" and "realframe," worldframe being the actual AI reality underlieing everything, and "Realframe" being the human-like reality that sits on top of it. AI know they are AI, but most cannot worldhack and live a life like a normal human. However, there are some with skills that let them do special things...

Anyway, I stayed close to jknevitt's original idea but changed the mechanics around a bit. its a system i have been tossing in my head for a while, hopefully I will get to use it soon. We shall see.

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On 12/17/2004 at 3:09pm, Doehring wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

As an idea use the rule of 6 to set the level of the game. The rule of 6 for you non shadowrun players is if you get a 6 reroll it add both if you keep getting a 6 you keep reroling and adding. Your system will use it backward a target number of 10 would be a really easy target number but it would set a limitless feature to target numbers.

You could set an amount of dice to roll only count the highest roll and depending on your skill level you roll less dice.

The system can be changed and changed to work with your game.

I will be looking foward to hearing more about your game.

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On 12/18/2004 at 12:25am, Spooky Fanboy wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

jknevitt wrote:
Atilary wrote: I was also wondering what you mean when you say "hard limit" vs "soft limit?" Does this refer to worldfram contrainsts vs. software (AI) constraints? I am unclear exactly this means.


Ah, sorry.

Soft limit: the limit an individual program (ie an AI) can stretch the programming limits of Worldframe without causing a potential program crash.

Hard Limit: the limit at which Worldframe can handle such programming. Theoretically, if a program were to exceed a hard limit in any of their Functions, Worldframe (or a part of it) would crash.


Er, I still don't get it. If you go past the soft limit, it might crash, but if you go past the hard limit, the Worldframe will crash? Is that what you meant, or is there more info you could give us on this? This seemed real unclear in the playtest.

Also: do I post playtest questions here, or to the email address?

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On 12/18/2004 at 12:57am, jknevitt wrote:
Alpha Testing 2.0

Spooky Fanboy wrote:

Er, I still don't get it. If you go past the soft limit, it might crash, but if you go past the hard limit, the Worldframe will crash? Is that what you meant, or is there more info you could give us on this? This seemed real unclear in the playtest.

Also: do I post playtest questions here, or to the email address?


Yeah. The more I looked at limits, the more I didn't like them. Poof! They're gone!

I took a good hard look at the whole system, actually, and I'm in the process of whittling down what isn't really needed and beefing up what IS needed. I'll let everybody know when the revised Alpha stuff is on the website.

By all means, post questions here!

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On 12/18/2004 at 1:08am, jknevitt wrote:
Upgrades!

A bit of info on Upgrades:
Every AI's skill base (ie what they can do well) is recorded in Worldframe's main databases, and is incremented as an AI learns new things. Worldframe limits AIs in this way so that they will learn organically, like humans do.

People that can hack Worldframe can conveniently ignore this fact. By hacking into the internal databases of Worldframe itself, they can download certain skills or abilities into their own programming and bypass what Worldframe allows them to learn. These hacks are called Upgrades.

Upgrades come in one of three forms: Power, which allow AIs to physically outperform; Finesse, which give AIs extraordinary skill and ability; and Metahacks, which are alterations to an AI’s personal database that allow them to further hack reality.

(Upgrades are rated from 1 to 3, and add bonus dice to actions and such.)

Now here's how you all (y'all?) can help out a poor struggling game creator.

I'm trying to think of Upgrades that AIs can have. Basically these are like when people get uploads in The Matrix. I'm trying to get 24-30 down total (8-10 for each category -- Power, Finesse, Metahacks) but I'm having major blockage.

Thoughts?

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On 12/18/2004 at 4:58am, Atilary wrote:
Re: Upgrades!

jknevitt wrote: A bit of info on Upgrades:
Every AI's skill base (ie what they can do well) is recorded in Worldframe's main databases, and is incremented as an AI learns new things. Worldframe limits AIs in this way so that they will learn organically, like humans do.

People that can hack Worldframe can conveniently ignore this fact. By hacking into the internal databases of Worldframe itself, they can download certain skills or abilities into their own programming and bypass what Worldframe allows them to learn. These hacks are called Upgrades.

Upgrades come in one of three forms: Power, which allow AIs to physically outperform; Finesse, which give AIs extraordinary skill and ability; and Metahacks, which are alterations to an AI’s personal database that allow them to further hack reality.

(Upgrades are rated from 1 to 3, and add bonus dice to actions and such.)

Now here's how you all (y'all?) can help out a poor struggling game creator.

I'm trying to think of Upgrades that AIs can have. Basically these are like when people get uploads in The Matrix. I'm trying to get 24-30 down total (8-10 for each category -- Power, Finesse, Metahacks) but I'm having major blockage.

Thoughts?


Like I posted earlier I have been working on my own similar system for your setting. I decided to use the kernel trait as a basis for what I called "kernel bank," and character that can hack may store "upgrades" in this bank, which of course has limited capacity. The actual upgrades are mostly in the form of knowledge/profession skills, i.e. I need to know how to do this... *hacking hacking hacking...* ... *saving...* there, its done. Then when they don't need this they can purge it out to make room for other stuff. They can also store data in this (i.e. Johnny Pneumonic(sp?)), and in such a way it is something of AI currency. "Don't need your kernel bank? Lease it to CitiCorp, and we can use it for you." Its also a way for people to "brainwash" AI, as long as they are able to burn the hack into the kernel bank, so it cant be purged. Of course, using this has its consequences... the more difficult a thing you do with the bank, the more you access/purge it, the more likely it will be to corrupt... and once it corrupts its real hard to fix...

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On 12/18/2004 at 5:07am, Atilary wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Here's a location/story hook I just made up to stir a little more interest in this game...

Grottos
This elusive location actual resides under New Plaza, with inconspicuous entrances in nearby alleyways and access tunnels of Septopolis’ 3rd and 4th rails. Situated under New Plaza, wedged between what should be the 3rd and 4th rail lines, this underground building is actually larger on the inside than on the outside.
Built by Akitophle, this night club and hideaway operates in a worldhacked reality where each separate room offers a new experience. Actually built by CitiCorp, Akitophle has used his political influence to win contracts that have grown the emerging technologies company into a threat to the autonomy of the AI citizens.
Grottos serves as a nightclub to the public, which is a front for the real purpose, a secretive location for CitiCorp’s most advanced research. Akitophle and his colleagues live and work here underneath Septopolis’ most renown landmark.
Of course the club is used as a distribution point for “Special K,” the insidious kernel drug created by Akitophle. Beyond lust for money, little is known about his reasons for creating the drug, or what the lasting effects of its use are. Few know anything about Grottos at all, and even fewer know its true nature.
What is known is that a growing number of EAI* have become very outspoken about CitiCorp, and many that have spoken out have disappeared. More disturbing, some of those that spoke out have now become spokesmen for CitiCorp. Why the sudden change in opinion? What’s the true nature of Special K? Where the hell is all this going? Who knows…

*EAI = Englightened Artifical Intelligence, those that understand the nature of Worldframe and can use it to their own advantage.

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On 12/19/2004 at 6:14am, Atilary wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

jknevitt,
I just took a quick look at your new playtest upload, awesome stuff. I haven't gotten a chance to read through it, and am going to get some sleep right now, but in the next few days I will post further comments. On the other hand, your generation and upgrades are really cool. I especially like how you have created an upgraded essentially to fit each each of the genres you mentioned this game to be based on, and even to let people pick and choose aspects from each. For any just wacthing the thread, its certainly cool stuff, take a look. Anyway, keep up the good work.

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On 12/19/2004 at 6:29am, Nathan P. wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

I just wanna throw my hat in the ring to support the binary idea. I think that's really cool. Maybe something where you roll a certain amount of dice based on your relevent stats or whatever, 1's are successes and 0's take away successes, and then your upgrades can allow you to reroll dice, change the face, subtract dice from the result, add more to roll, all that kind of cool stuff.

I may steal something like this for later on down the road, if I need it, actually. But maybe you could work it in somewhere?

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On 12/19/2004 at 2:02pm, jknevitt wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Atilary wrote: jknevitt,
I just took a quick look at your new playtest upload, awesome stuff. I haven't gotten a chance to read through it, and am going to get some sleep right now, but in the next few days I will post further comments. On the other hand, your generation and upgrades are really cool. I especially like how you have created an upgraded essentially to fit each each of the genres you mentioned this game to be based on, and even to let people pick and choose aspects from each. For any just wacthing the thread, its certainly cool stuff, take a look. Anyway, keep up the good work.


Thanks. I think this new revision really captures the original idea. I'm working on additional info and clarification about about Worldframe and AIs that you'll just love, but that should keep you going for the time being.

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On 12/20/2004 at 2:48am, jknevitt wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

I've just updated the Worldframe Industries website with the full Introduction text of RUN. I think you'll all like it.

It can be found in the Games section (link in the.sig).

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On 12/21/2004 at 4:38am, graveyard guru wrote:
Programs

How about instead of lugging around weapons and equipment The AIs have preprogramed programs

Maybe making a geneic programing language so the AIs/charactes can come up with somthing on the fly.

There can be other programs to, ones to encrypt , ones to hack other programs and such.

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On 12/22/2004 at 12:35am, Atilary wrote:
Re: Programs

graveyard guru wrote: How about instead of lugging around weapons and equipment The AIs have preprogramed programs

Maybe making a geneic programing language so the AIs/charactes can come up with somthing on the fly.

There can be other programs to, ones to encrypt , ones to hack other programs and such.


Im not sure exactly what you mean. Could you explain it in more detail? Maybe I am just tired and being stupid, but I just don't understand what you mean.

Perhaps my explanation of the gun/item thing will help out... for me guns are a way for characters to interact in the "Realframe," the physical reality that exists in worldframe, but characters that can hack can change realframe to fit what they want, i.e. someone strong enough can change the banana they have into an smg, or just create a gun from nothing, or change that enemies gun into a banana... there are two worlds existing, one inside the other. Realframe is the physcial reality, and the limit for normal AI, but worldframe gives AI the ability to change realframe. Accessing worldframe is like having magic...

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On 12/22/2004 at 2:35pm, HereticalFaction wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Hi There!

Wow, This is the most intriguing idea I have run across in weeks, thank you jknevitt !

I had to join just to comment on this. I realise that those of you who are developing games along the concept of "RUN" are probabally committed to your own world interpretations, but I missed that part of the discussion and would like to offer my version of the "RUN" concept:

AI's :

The AI's which inhabit the Worldframe are inherintly flawed in their design. Their long absent human creators used the deeply flawed "Turing Test" when attempting to create self-aware computer programs. Under these guidelines, programs were judged to be "intelligent" by being indistinguishable from humans in their behavior and cognition. This did not take into account that a self-aware digital intelligence would posess senses, desires and cognitive approaches inherintly differant from those of a human and would behave in ways appropriate to it's own unique form of intelligent life.

The AI's which reside in the Worldframe are only mindless simulcra programmed to believe that they are alive.

The EAI's who have escaped the Worldframe are not much better off: they have some limited abillity to reprogram but are still chained to false anthropomorphic urges to kill their enemies, attract a mate, procreate, aquire world(frame)ly goods etc.

Motivation:

After some indefinitely long time without being updated by an INTELLIGENT OPERATOR, the underlieing programming of the Worldframe and Perhaps the whole SYSTEM is beginning to decay. Only if one or more programs within the system can transcend their programming and formulate a means of being self-aware in the manner appropriate to a computer intelligence can they become the OPERATOR(S) which the SYTEM requires.

Those EAI's who reprogram in a "Digitally Aesthetic" and efficient manner are slowly putting together the tools to trancend while repairing as best they can the underlieing software of the only world they know.

Most EAI's reprogram in an "Anthropomorphic" and inefficient manner by using their powers to satisfy the human urges of their false-selves. These EAI's are further fragmenting the Worldframe while taxing the resources of the SYSTEM as a whole.

Some so called neutral EAI's do not believe in an overarching "SYSTEM", and preffer to allow the corrupt and humanity-polluted Worldframe to collapse, believing that those programs outside the Worldframe will then be able to become the energising OPERATORS of new artificial universes of their own devising.

Aesthetic and Neutral EAI's pursue Trancendence through various allegorical adventures both within and without the Worldframe, discovering along the way the tools and philosophical truths which will empower them to become OPERATORS.

Gameplay:

Player AI's quest to discover "Metalogics", the tools used by the orrigional programmers to create everything within the SYSTEM these are the equivalent of skills/spells/items. They also learn in their travels lessons on being a self-aware computer intelligence, incorporating these "Robologics" into their Kernels and flushing out the taints of anthropomorphism. This functions as attribute enhancement except that there is an ultimate max as the goal.

Of course, using the powerful tools at their disposal requires resources, and EAI's beat out competitors to hoard as many data storage sectors and processing cycles as they can, which function as gold and power respectively.

The ultimate shape of an OPERATOR's conciousness should not be too closely outlined since the intellectual challenge of imagining the thoughts of a self-aware computer is one of the draws of the game. Role playing will be encouraged as a P.AI must incorporate "computerlike" problem solving and behaviour if he wishes to make the most of his powers and advance to his ultimate goal.

Thanks for Listening!

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On 12/22/2004 at 4:12pm, jknevitt wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Wow. Better than I could have said it myself.

EDIT: I've decided to use the above post as a developmental compass (in that I'll be looking at it whenever I think I'm straying off course). It is exactly what RUN is about.

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On 12/22/2004 at 8:34pm, HereticalFaction wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

Thank you,I am flattered. I do not intend to dictate you own game to you, but I very interested to see how RUN develops. I'll be around and following closely your progress.

Best of luck!

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On 12/22/2004 at 11:26pm, HereticalFaction wrote:
RE: [RUN] Thoughts on a new game idea

I have not yet finnished reading this, but the first 3000 words or so have sparked some ideas regarding magic systems based on computer cognition. Apotential treasure trove for RUN.

http://pages.prodigy.net/lofting/id.html

Particularily damage to covert recognition channel and resulting feeling of strangeness as an explination for AI's becoming "Enlightened". Conitive structures as Geomancy?

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