Alrightie-
Work on my Ruxpin game has ALSO yielded a CCG, I really think I'm just stuck in a 'card game meachanics' mode while working on the Twilight expansion.

So, here's another RPG attempt from myself, though this one I really want some help from those interested in seeing a CCG/RPG hybrid.
The basis of play is a blatant Metroid ripoff and subject of a failed 24 RPG personal challenge.

Hunters is the story of the lost colonies of Earth, trying to re-establish contact with humanity's homeworld. Living among worlds which were once home to older, wiser races, these colonies are under constant assault by the Triarch Empire, a viscious amalgamation of at least two races, though a third, darker force is pulling strings as well. It was because of this the colonies chose to sever ties with Earth, to protect it from the Empire.
Emerging late into the conflict but protecting these colonies and helping sheperd the colonies to Earth are Hunters, lone wolf enforcers and guardians. Hunters are also humans, orphans from devistated colonies trained by a seclusive race known as the Shen-re, one of the races who inhabited many of the worlds the colonies now call home. Originally going into hiding themselves to keep their advanced technology from the Reptiklons, one of the races who would be of the Triarch Empire, the Shen-re saw the fledgeling humans wouldn't stand a chance against the Empire and took their orphans under their guidance.
Training them, equiping them with modifed versions of their battlesuits and single pilot warships, the Shen-re consider the Hunters as a part of the Shen-re race, a fading race itself, a last legacy of both the colonial life and the Shen-re.
The Triarch Empires are technological cannibals. Starting centuries ago with the Reptiklon Crusades, the Empire consits of the Tekne, an ingenious race enslaved by the Reptiklons whose innovation has staled, becoming more like their masters and canibalizing other technology, an entire race of reverse engineers. The Reptiklons are fierce, dragon like creatures who live in the depths of space. It is believed they possess no homeworld of their own, living among asteroid belts in the vaccum of space. During the Reptiklon Crusades, it appears they discovered another world and race, which they attempted to conquer and failed, becoming comquered themselves. Their new masters are known as the Triarch, though no Reptiklon has ever met the leaders of this race. Their servents are featureless, mindless sluglike creatures in thick armor with an unusual tie to their leaders; no Reptiklon has ever exterminated one of the Triarch servants without paying for the mistake with his life.

Here's basic gameplay:
- Players begin play with a brief character sheet: typical information (name, ethnicity, age, build, etc), as well as a Suit Customization, and a Vendetta, a particular reason the character took on the solitary life of the Hunter.
- Basic suits are defined in terms of Slots and Power Cells. Slots determine what the character can use (ie 4 Beam Weapon Slots, 8 Suit Mode 1 Slots, 6 Suit Mode 2 Slots etc), as well as starting equipment.
- For die rolls, players use 2d6 roll over for checks and what not. Combat is reletively abbriviated- it assumes a 'Lock On' system, meaning die variances account for "whiff" factor, the beam weapons not hitting with full force for what ever reason.

Now, heres some of the fun:
- No GM. Worlds and conflicts are defined by the cards. Players take turns "exploring" by playing new "Room" cards, and take additional turns filling these rooms with all manner of items.
- Decks contain Room, Landmark, Event, Upgrade, Puzzle and Enemy cards.
Rooms provide a basic template, any natural enemies, 'doors' you can build off of, how many 'landmarks' may be in it, etc
Landmarks are significant Items in a room, such as "Giant Statue", "Aging Tree", "Shattered Device" etc. These can also contain additional items (Upgrades), information, trigger Events, etc.
Upgrades are, like in the Metroid ganes; Power Cells, Missile Expansions, New Weapons, etc.
Puzzle cards require certain weapons, die rolls and such to pull off, just as the Metroid games require certain Weapons be used with specific skills or timing.
Enemy cards define enemies, of course, natural, unnatrual and such. Life Energy, weapons capabilities, Mode of Attacks etc.
Event cards are the most interesting. While I'm looking to the system allowing alot of narritve freedom but within the constraits of the cards on the board, Events will allow players to pull more in.
IE When a player enters a new Room for the first time, they get to define several things via cards, as does everyone else. Throw in an event and suddenly that "Mammoth Insect" isn't a mammoth insect anymore...thats "Karlingah, the Destroyer", a mutated monstrosity employed by the Empire to subdue jungle-type locations through its ability to innately communicate and direct large swarms of insects, acting as a central componant to a Hive Mind. And the card text? It might read something like "Choose an Enemy in a new Room. That is now a Unique Enemy and has a tie to the Vendetta of the player who entered the Room."

The cards will define actual layouts and content. Players will define the context. If they say "We're here to save the colonists", *BOOM*, there are Colonists present and all players must respond as though there are. If they say they're there to explore the Ruins in search of clues to a lost tribe of Shen-re, then thats why they are there. Events allow them to pull in additional items mechanically while the players are more than free to play their characters out as they see fit.
Vendetta's, while not fully fleshed out, are a form to allow the player (and other players) to pull in information to create highly specific conflicts.

"Sets" would focus on specific worlds, races, and environments. Mixing the sets for a deck or even taking a deck from each for each player, allows the players to create new worlds on the fly. They could play through pregenerated scenarios and worlds, but mix and match to make their own world with several environments and customized maps.
I envision play for each "world" lasting a session, wrapping up with a kind of boss showdown and something significant for at least one player.

Artwork for the set can easily include wire-frame 'blueprints' for the Rooms, 3D Textured items for landmarks, but likely to need some artwork where Enemies are concerned.

Play I'd hope focuses on exploration and puzzle solving. To earn anything, the players have to work together, contributing details as well as challenges, as many Weapon Upgrades or Powercell Upgrades ask certain requrements be met first.
So, what do we think we can do with this?

Heya,

I could really see this working. The thing to avoid would be the HeroQuest boardgame syndrome, where each room was basically the same and all you had to do was follow the same pattern over and over.

So let me make some useful suggestions. First, I'd suggest making your room/geography cards a separate deck from Event, Upgrade, Puzzle, etc. If the PCs need to flee (or the NPCs for that matter), then they should be able to move into somplace else. Plus, the players could almost build a "game board" or a map by aranging the cards next to each other in the ways the room (or land masses, whatever) are connected in their minds. They build the geography as they go.

Second, PC's should have character cards, which wouldn't be much more than a picture depicting each Archetype (or class or whatever) the PCs can be. This is just to help them visualize what is going on and give them a "piece" to move around the constructed board along with the Enemy cards. It wouldn't necessarily have any mechanical effect on the game.

Third, I'd make a rule that all room/geography cards in a deck must be of the same type. You don't want something like a "Desert Oasis" next to "Battlestation Superstructure". It would ruin the coninuity- unless they had a transporter, heh heh.

Fourth, I would add trap cards just for kicks. This might give Techies in the group something to do. It seems a lot would be focuses on combat, though you do have puzzle cards. Making a variety of encounters for the PCs is always good.

Fifth, how do PCs lose? Do they just die, or can they be captured? If so, can they be rescued? And who controls the NPCs anyway?

Sixth, I think this is a wonderful idea. You've got a built in way to continue to make money: expansions, and a game that doesn't require too much effort to learn since most of the rules would be on the cards. Each new pack would add a lot of excitement to the group.

I hope to see this developed in the future. I think you've snagged on to something here.

Peace,

-Troy

I'd be inclined to allow many different types of terrain / location, to simulate a galaxy / system spanning adventure.

"Ok, so we vanquished that squad of Nerg'th Mercenaries on Station Zeta One, now we're on the Jungle world Hiralda ... "

Some kind of quest card might be an idea to get a more focused game going on. Quests could either have some long term goal (Exterminate quest is completed by beating 12 enemies) or some specific goal (find the Red Planet card and explore it until you find the Ghosts of Mars card). It should be difficult enough that the players won't complete the primary quest (Mission Objective?) in 10 minutes, but should serve to allow either a session to end or at least a breathing space. Think episode breaks between episodes of a TV show. The mission objectives could be tied to one or more players Vendetta's, or maybe you generate a team Vendetta for the session.

I like the idea of having an 'encounter' card, but it could be extended to include puzzles, rp encounters, various game challenges (attribute tests / trials) and so on. Each encounter could then offer rewards for completion (eg attach 3 points of Upgrades kind of thing)

I thought you could maybe use Power as a currency in the game. So each turn you generate 5 power points for example, and distribute them as you see fit (to weapons, armour, psionics, whatever). suits can take a licking as long as they have power reserves, once those are gone the next hit cripples the suit.

You mentioned 'modes', was that a reference to having transforming suits? Also, there might be some milage in having some out of suit mechanics or possibly a seperate class of challenges, if this is intended to be usable for an rpg maybe it shouldn't *all* be laser cannons and chain guns ... maybe :)

- Rooms -
1) Laying them out is exactly what I had in mind ^_^ I imagine it'd look like a domino game after a few turns, but it'd still be neat
2) As to moving, once the cards are on the board, THAT is the geography. If the players need to flee, all they have to do is bolt through one of the doors and through a few 'rooms'.
3) Decks could actually contain multiple environments, however certain requirements have to be met. If you're going to play "Central Computer Core" anywhere NEAR "Desert Oasis", you'd need something to "switch" environments, such as "Hidden Base Entrance Alpha", after which you could start attaching "Fortress" Environment cards. It wouldn't even need to be that specific either, say just a simple card "Hidden Entrance" Could switch zones for you. My thinking is to make as many of the cards as generic as possible, giving players greater flexability and letting them fill in as much detail as they want.
Players could also play additional cards elsewhere in the world (face down I'm thinking) if they can't play one for the current environment.
4) If we have 4 or so people playing, having the Rooms and other cards in the same deck isn't a big deal. I rather like that, myself, as each deck is going to be customized to each player, so each game will have a vast world to explore.
5) I shouldn't think they would. Rooms would have their own hazards and features, and while the 'descriptions' may be generic, I'd like to encourage players to add details (even much later after its played if need be). Environments will affect a lot- Rooms from a "Molten Zone" Will have the feature "Extreme Temperature"- without specific suit modifications, the temperature damages the player. "Underwater" hampers movement. "Elevated" Items (Doors, Upgrades, etc) require certain items to reach them in the first place. LOTS of fun comes about in areas that have "Underwater" and "Elevated Door", meaning an item hunt is in order.

-Characters-
Markers, chips, or game pawns may be an easier way to go about that, lol, as it would be VERY much like a board game. The character sheets could easily include a sample piece of artwork beside the stats- there won't be many, and any Upgrade cards will have all of the details on it anyway.

-Losing-
Losing would fall somewhere around dying, of course, but failing an objective may be the more common. "Protect the Colonists" and suddenly an Empire drop ship lands a whole platoon of Tekne footsoldiers and a Reptiklon commander, thats not cool, and a high chance of failing (3 or 4 against...lots, not to mention one badass 12 foot ptyridactyl critter in the Commander).

-Objectives-
Mission cards were something I forgot to mention. They'd also be shuffled into the deck and provide a chance at an upgrade, but with a chance you'll be taking on a Big Bad Boss. An objective card might read "Gravity Distrubances detected. Believed to be new movement system in testing phase. Proceed to <Fortress Environment Location> and procure technology"
Primary Missions or objectives, I'd like players to define. The whole "Why are we here?". Thus, a simple scouting mission can become "Avenge my family by killing the local Commander and destroying the Empire base present". Or, it could really be a simple scouting mission, "Explore and secure this world up to 24 sectors away from your landing site, alert Federation officials if the world is clear for colonization." Thus, layout 24 rooms, face off against a few baddies, make nice with any locals you discover and away you go to the next mission, hopefully with a little more clink in your suit.

-Modes-

Yup, the modes was a reference to transforming suits. Initial 'Hunter' write ups go ahead and steal Samus' "Morph Ball" feature, but it could be other transformations. The suits are very much human sized armor, though, not Transformer or Gundam styled suits, thus we won't have jets flying around and becoming people upon landing.

-Laser Cannons and Chain Guns-

Oh yes *grins evilly* Nah, I'd like to tackle it in some fashion, but its one of those things my hearts not set on. I can see diplomacy issues arrising- "Wait, there IS sentiant life on this planet, they're a race of intelligent, self aware fungus! We can't just land Federation colony ships, we'll kill them!" (Other Note- the Hunters abide by a strict code that keeps them as peacekeepers and enforcers, not just soldiers for the colonies. This code includes protecting all sentiant life and working in the interest of everyone, not just one group or race)- thus, diplomacy would be needed dealing with the Fungoids or with Federation commanders (and since the Hunters aren't a part of the Federation military, they can talk back all they want ^_^).
The primary stories though are those of lone wolf peacekeepers and protectors-for-hire. I imagine a fair portion of play will deal with battles (epic or otherwise) or exploration and puzzle solving, less social interaction between Hunters and others cept to say "You bastard! You destroyed the orbital base I grew up on! DIE!" Investigation, research, other things of that nature would certainly be in order.

Okay, so we have a Deck of 'Room' cards which include 'Doors' - Connections to other Room cards, with each Room card having a list of Environments it can connect to. This would suggest a heirachy of environment types maybe (Interior - Fortress) or (Exterior - Desert) allowing an entrance from Set #1 to be used later on (rather than Secret Base Alpha linking to Desert Oasis, which might limit usefulness). Rooms would then have 'Environment' tags or traits. Each Room card could have I guess 4 or 8 possible connections .. So a 'Subari Corp Gentech Lab' has two or three 'Interior' connections, possibly 'Interior - Security' types, whereas the 'Ridgeback Mountains' have four 'External' connections, again linked to 'Environment' traits.

Each player has a token that they move about the emerging layout, representing thier suit.

Are players going to have a hand of cards each? A mixture of Events, Rooms, Upgrades, Mission Cards.

Events would probably be linked to an Environment, or have bonuses tied in. 'Mecha Guardian Ul'Uksa' has a bonus +3 Firepower if its placed on a 'Secure Zone' environment.

Puzzles have been mentioned above, would they be a test of a trait / attribute / dice roll against a target? The kind of Puzzle where in-game you have to shoot at a moving target or leap platforms? So Event cards can be Puzzle, Critter or some sort of 'modifier' event (Low Power, Extra Ammo, Ambush .. that sort of thing)

Aside from card types, is this going to be playable solo? Minimum players? Should everyone draw from a single deck or multiple decks? I guess a single deck is going to give a more cohesive play experience. I liked the idea of each player having a Vendetta as well, a personal Goal they can work towards without the other players.

Suit Modes - What effect would you see these having? I'm not that familiar with Metroid, does the alternate mode allow for different movement style? Could this be represented by moving power between different systems, ie for this turn I'm boosting Move by dropping a couple of points from Firepower and Armour. This might open up more strategies for tactics?

Hyper Mode ... definately a mainstay of the genre, I'd like to see a mechanic for putting a weapon / item / suit into overdrive. Maybe there are cards for changing exactly what overdrive options are available, but having the suit 'Death Blossom' would be hella cool :)

I had a huge thing on Metroid before IE crashed on me. Let me tackle my mechanics and ideas first:

Stick, I think you're putting too much thought into the Rooms. They'd have some basic definitions, yes, and it would be difficult to switch landscapes, but not too much.
Here are some play examples from my head:

Game #1 -
Player A plays Gentech Labs near Desert Oasis. Why is a Lab in the middle of the Desert?
"Research station," Player A says. "Outpost, for collecting specimens and studying weather patterns."
Player B turns around and plays "Shattered Statue" as a Landmark in the Room. Why is a Statue in the middle of the lab?
"Detectable power signiture," Player B explains. "It was brought to the lab from the deep Desert for study."

Suddenly, we have a Deep Desert, changing weather patterns, and a remote laboratory from three cards.

Game #2-
Player C drops Gentech Labs next to "Service Hallway", deep in a Fortress. Player A turns around and plays "Injured Reptiklon", which will be at full power in 8 turns, in the Lab. Why is the Injured Reptiklon there? "He's being outfitted with Cybernetic enhancements."
Player B plays "Old Nemesis Appears" Event card..."The injured Reptiklon in the lab is really Commander Bar'tok." Player A's eyes go wide. "I killed him on Kanix 4!" "Nope, he's alive, and being outfitted with cybernetic enhancements!" Player B grins evilly. "And he's pissed!"

Suddenly, we have an old enemy, back from the Dead no less, wounded, and being upgraded as we speak.

The idea is players can attach meaning to the cards and items around, justifying their placement. Thus, one location on one world/in one session can mean something different in another, as would cards. "Injured Reptiklon" in another mission could be an injured and left behind Commander usurped by an underling. He'd side with the players and help them out if they let him avenge himself on the underling traitor. That kind of thing- providing a skeleton and letting players fill it in.

Puzzles you have about right. You'd need to make like several "Jump Checks", start over on a failed one, and have a specific item (Say the Electric Wave is needed to power on a device across a gap with tricky platforms). In Metroid, there are also little mazes which require "Bomb Jumps", laying a bomb in ball mode and using its explosion to propel you upward.

Solo play, noper. I want it to be a group game, where EVERYONE contributes.
I'd also want each player to have a deck of their own. The decks would likely be customized to best benefit each players character, but players will need to cooperate to get their own way. Plus, if they screw folks over and place a tempting prize in an Upgrade or some such, they can just as easily get ripped off. A Landmark Item may be "Decaying Tree" which is "Composed of brittle wood, suseptible to heavy fire." and has the ability "When played, another player may place an Upgrade card face down with this card." - Thus, one player puts up the container/puzzle/trap, while another sets up the prize.

This sounds really interesting. I don't have much else to tell you but keep at it. :)

Cool ideas, I see the kind of story telling thing you're aiming at now :)

With the Mission Cards idea, we have a victory condition set. Is there any kind of built in competition between the players? I understand from a Story point of view multiple players will interact to tell an interesting story, but is there system-based encouragement for them to co-operate? Would encounter difficulty be related to the number of players?

What would happen if one player is sat with a set of cards that aren't delivering? So, if no rooms are being drawn, or no upgrades turn up? Will the game continue despite one players lame hand? Will that player still get to contribute beyond ideas?

I like the idea of recurring themes and villians. The characters will presumably get to carry some or all of thier upgrades between games?

As an overall question, where do you see this fitting on the line between card game and rpg?

-Equipment-
Equipment between adventures would be totally up to the players. As I said, suits are composed of "Slots" of available weaponry, so players can scrap a suit somehow and presto! They start all over collecting items, if only to make the game more interesting or just to get new gear.
Metroid does this with all of their games in some fashion, and it works out. Samus, who was an orphan raised by the wise Chozo, typically has some form of accident, attack or something that disables features on the suits. Thus, during the course of game, part of it is to solve the mysteries and riddles, the other part is to bring the suit back to full power.
For example, in Fusion she was attacked by a virus that replicates entities. Her suit, which is a portion biological, was also infected and had to be removed. Thus, when she took on the parisites, she had to fight to get some of her abilities back from the parisites.
In Prime, the game starts with investigating a distress signal from a station orbiting Talon IV. After that, and she's trying to escape the collapsing station, a power surge knocks out most of the suits systems. For Prime, Tallon IV happened to a Chozo world years ago, and was able to recover her armorments again. In Echoes, she's ambushed by the villians, the Ing, and her parts stolen. She gets most of them back, but Echoes also used that as a way to explain away losing old Tech to make room for the new Tech.

-Misison Card-
Mission cards are fairly vauge, they clue in why players need to go there, and display a room they need to get to. Rooms will have to be contributed by almost everyone likely. The Big Bads (and in Metroid they are BIG and they are BAD) may need multiple players to take them out, IE the cybernetic Repltiklon general has a very delicate cooling system- two players will need to atttack simultaniously, possibly with a Frost Beam and a Heat Beam at the same time (ergo, messing up the cooling systems).
Hunters would cooperate, though Players may have some issues ("You get all the good stuff!")
I'll have to look at it, but there are already some ways. The bosses above, splitting powerups and upgrades (Maybe a rule- a Weapon/Suit Upgrade can only be played once- Thus, the one player has the Heat Gun and the other has the Frost Gun.) so that areas or puzzles which use weapons as keys might need the players to cooperate to access the puzzle, which leads to a kind of partnership ("Hey, have lower missiles than you guys, but that Reactor Core back there is a part of a puzzle, and I laid a missle under it when it was played. If someone helps me with that so I can boost my missles, I'll help someone else out later and you can have that upgrade.") etc.
Idea just popped in writing that last example- formalizing "Favors", allowing one player use of the Character's ability in exchange for a promise of later payback. In the Above, "Anyone who has a heat beam and helps me with this will get a Favor". The Hunters always honor their word, and a Favor is a devilish way to exert influance on other players.

-Lame Decks-
Thats why I'm thinking decks need a pre-requisite (X Rooms, X Events, X Upgrades) amount of cards. You may have times when you're just drawing Events or Upgrades, but the other players at the table should be drawing something else, so it should balance out eventually.

-The Line-
Cards Game - Hunters will use a deck of cards per player, which can be customized to the individual. Expansion sets will be released, furthuring the metaplot in some specific but many generic terms (Instead of the Triarch Empire gaining power in X Sectors, just the Triarch Empire controls 60% of colonized space- thus, you have a 3 out of 5 chance of being on an Empire world), as well as introducing a slew of new areas and creatures.
Starter Kits would be released for specific environments, "booster" packs would be (I really want to find a way to do this), randomly generated PDF files, available for say $1 for 20 cards (2 Sheets of Avery Business Cards). Thus, it is purchased and constructed like any other CCG.

RPG - Use of characters with defining aspects to navigate a world. Random generations of worlds, players etc. Actual USE of characters in the world, as opposed to a "pawn". Player input in terms of Rationalizing Cards ("I placed this here because..."). Uncertain combat - instead of "My 3/3 beats your 2/2", you have "The Tekne gunner has its sights set on me while another dashes for the combat turret behind them! I lock on and fire at the runnung gunner, making a rolling shot to avoid the Gunner in front of me!" *chucks a couple dice*
Shared Imagined space- As I've seen around here, the players collectively create a world and events, which are shared throug descriptions, but definite geographic layouts and positions as well via the Cards.
Cooperative play - players working together to develop the stories, world and characters and overcome challenges, unlike CCGs where you have "Opponents".

The Line - Ongoing campaigns, but clearer start/stop points- Arrive on World, complete objective or run out of cards. Unlimited worlds, generated at an instant. Easy to start like a card game match, longer to play.
Near unlimited actions, but some actions defined by what cards are on the board instead of whats in your head (Kind of bothers me, hence the lack of specifics in as many of the cards as possible).

Anyone see anything I'm missing?

Ongoing Campaigns-
Ok, so there's a game related reason for stripping everything away from the suit between sessions if required. How would a players progress be measured? As the character moves between games maybe they could select a card which is either in hand or in play at the start of the next game. An alternate way would be to have the deck represent the ongoing characters progression, but that would presumably be a bad thing, as it might stop them purchasing 'booster packs'?

Mission Cards-
Encouraging the players to work together is great, but I could see a potential problem with cards that *require* certain effects (like heat/cold damage), in that a player may not have those cards in his collection and/or deck. This might just mean that card design has to avoid 'must have' traits?

The dynamic pdf generation isn't a problem, I wrote some code a while abck that does something similar already :)

I can't say I'm too happy with normal RPG measures of progression.
Something I like is just player characters becoming better at something and the player feeling satisfied.
The Vendettas give the players something to address as characters, and can easily be spun into larger and larger webs of events, encounters and sessions. IE The Bride wanted to Kill Bill, but, in a traditional video game scenario, she had to go through all of his underlings. Thats one way to extend a campaign for each character, though a bit shallow.
In my mind, the missions should never totally address a players Vendetta, I'd say my "Code of the Hunter" almost forbids that, with its tenants that the Hunters work only for the good of all. Thus, venturing off on some personal quest of vengence is a selfish waste of the Shen-re gifts. However, if it just so HAPPENS that Coloney X1388 is on a world where you suspect your parents may be held captive in an Empire slave camp, thats a different story. Protect the Colony, remove the Empire camp from that world. If these are your orders, you have a wide open chance to look for your parents.
Its like a lot of the TV series out there, where the lead character is searching for something. They never quite touch it, the episode always seems so unrelated to the initial conflict, but something burried beneath the surface carries even that plot thread foreward.
I just want to find away to measure "progress" based on player satisfaction, even if they blow it. "Well, he got away..." "Yea, but now I know my parents are still alive"

As per the 'requirements', I do want to avoid alot of those. The Heat/Cold example could just as easily arrise from a clause on one of the cards stating the Enemy is suseptible to damage when exposed to opposite charges at the same time (Heat/Frost, Positve Matter/Negetive Matter etc). I'd make alot of the basic weapons very easy to come by, so having a set of different poled weapons wouldn't be too difficult. More powerful or "Hypermode" variations, on the other hand, WOULD be rare.
All in all, a Mission may define a vauge requirement, allowing the players to determine what exactly that ends up being.

*Edit* Another thing I can steal from Metroid ^_^ There were several situations, especially in Echoes, where you simply didn't have the capcity to injure a given boss. HOWEVER, the environent you interacted with DID. If you could get to spot X, you could activate a detenoator located beneath the boss to deal damage. If you stood in spot X and fired, the shot would sail through a radiation field, becoming stronger. Those kinds of things could easily be narrated in by players. Don't have a heat or frost beam? Shoot the cooling coils running through the lab, get it to shoot off a stream of liquid nitrogen that freezes the enemy, then throw the switch to fire up the plasma coils also running through the room, creating the alternating hot/cold situations. Does the card say those things are in the room? Nope. Could they be? Easily.

As to progression between games, players can arrange start up however they want. They can carry over suits, agree some event (Power surge, theft, assault) strips them of some equipment because Jimbo bought the new expansion and has all sorts of cool new armor and weapons. They could even say "I want to address something with my Vendetta this session and want to have this card in my first hand", if everyone agrees, I don't see the problem in having that.
As you have a good chance of working through a deck in a given session, I can't see how it might work for "on going character progression". You can use the same deck over without major issues, but you'll have a shite load of Power Cells, Missles, and other such options. Thus, a reset may be favorable and reintroduce some challenges.

Okay, an idea maybe out of the left field, but how about if the cards are designed to be modified by the players, mid-game? So when the players first encounter the Tordekken Soulflayer, one of them says "That's Mi'rrek, The Scourge of Felstar VI", and the card gets written on to indicate this. So next time they draw that card, they know about that NPC .. maybe including rules modifiers.

-On a positive side this allows for personailsation of the deck, as well as being something different from a lot of game, and takes advantage of the fact that the players are most likely self-printing the cards.

-Negatively it's clear that this will involve more printing of the cards and thus greater expense. Writing on cards won't be to everyone's taste clearly. Possibly printing the cards in black and white would cut costs, or having the modifiable cards be 'ink lite'.

An offshoot of this would be allowing editable cards so that the rules / names / modifiers would be printed on the cards as they come out, increasing legibility at least for me :)

This might also lead to some interesting game directions with cards that were tearable / cutable / modifiable

Anyway, back to reality .. I *really* like the concept of favours between players and some form of game based reward for following the 'Code' (modified by Vendettas or a social contract possibly).

On progression, I'd agree that TV characters don't progress as RPG / Video Game characters do, and that's fine. A TV design metaphore might look at making things more 'episodic', with rewards for a successful 'season' being introduced. Players choosing their starting hands or in-play equipement sounds though that it might break the 'game' element that's going on, I'm not sure.

Given the TV paradigm, can that be expanded to provide more 'game' rules? How about nominating or alternating the Central character in each episode? Maybe they get to pick a mission or somehow infulence the deck designs? Alternatively they could get to select a secondary mission, specifically to advance their own agendas or resolve thier personal goals?

Personally from a game point of view I'd like to see a little more control on the decks. Either the cards need to be *very* carefully balanced or a working limit set on card values in the deck. I'd be happy to see a working maximum set on 'uber cards' and an in game reward for playing with sub-optimal cards. Something like having a positive value on benefits / abilities /equipment, and a negative value on encounters / hazards etc. A player then builds their deck with a net zero (ish!) score. As the season progresses they change their overall net score. They can swap out cards between games as they want but their net score matches thier characters value (however that might be decided). There could be a seperate value for start of game card hands, cards in play or whatever.

This could maybe be tied in with player satisfaction, so that the players vote on certain things, either simply ("Bill rocked that game, I'm voting him a +2 on his Score") or more complex ("I loved having the Hell Fire Cannon this game, and getting the Imperial Inquisition enemy so often was way cool. I'm swapping the Hell Fire Cannon into my starting hand and putting another 2 Inquisition Cards into my deck, for a net +2 score"). I'm not in favour of making an accounting nightmare here (despite appearances!) but most people I'm sure can handle basic maths for deck construction. Possibly a little app would be responsible for the numbers and customisation of cards all at once? Just a thought :)

Going to have to mull over some of this, but maybe a close following to TV shows might be a good idea.
Prime Time Adventures (PTA) actually has something like you suggested: when you start playing, you decide on, what, seven shows? to the season, even if you're going to play them or not. Each character then is rated 1, 2 or 3 for each episode:
1 - Supporting Character, their spotlight time is either far off or been and gone
2 - Significant Supporting Character, has more screen time that most other Supporting Characters and has a 'mini-scene' that sets them up for NEXT episode, which is their starring episode
3 - Spotlight Character. This is the character who this episode is all about. Can be a title character, of course, or the TC's best friend or whatever.

Don't know about the actual writing on cards, for the reasons you cite, but I'm definetly writing into the rules the need for a "chronicler"- the game doesn't need a GM, but it does need someone to take notes on who is what where when why and how.

Possibly work the decks so that they function like a minis war party? Of the kind you build a 100 point army out of whatever you have or want, so that means you get a dozen "weaker" guys or 5 "powerful" guys or whatever mix you'd like.
The 0 point you mention, for every X Positive Character points/cards, you need X Negetive Enemy/challenge cards. Thus, a group sitting down to play of various levels will be fairly balanced by their own deck. (Wait, rereading your post, thats roughly what you suggested, lol)
So, a "Level 1" deck has say 50 points to work with- must have 50 Positive and 50 Negative Points. Cards that are more powerful will take up more points, weaker cards will take up less. Balance the cards so that going with 1 Reptiklon worth 10 points or 5 Tekne Gunners, worth 2 points, equates to the same amount of challenge per instance so no one is too tempted to load a deck with piddly little guys. Course, thats not much fun to play, either. You WANT the big bads to take on and earn glory, weapons or advance your own plot.

"Chooseing" in play equipment isn't really an issue for a group thats been playing a while. Bob walking into a new group though with a 3 missions old Hunter on the other hand could introduce problems.
Choosing inhand cards, eh, maybe, if abused. Going off of your "Central Character" concept, however, allow that play to choose 1 (or 2) cards in their opening hand to begin the game and drive it in a direction they want to go, either addressing a new mission or introducing some element into the current mission.

Card balance I'm not too concerned about either. Theres no such thing as a broken card if the cards themselves are balanced against themselves. I've been able to do that with Final Twilight ^_^ Dispite what folks say about one card or another being broken, none of them are. They may look that way, but once lined up and actually in play, they're as balanced as anything- you need skills, not cards, to win in Twilight.

Voting seems interesting. Could work, could be abused. Limit it- so many players may be nominated for so many points, or make it mechanical- taking down X enemy allots you X points to contribute how you see fit, either through helping other players, or yourself. Amounts to Experiance Points, but leave the options open to say "Well, I killed the platoon assaulting the base, but it was Jim's plan that created that bottleneck...and he had to run the whole thing from the control room, leaving me with the heavy artilary to do the dirty work. I'll share some of those points with him then, cause that was a friggin brilliant plan and I couldn't have done it without him!"
Then, of course, those points are passed on to the Deck Score (starting at 50 or whatever) and Jim can add more to his deck.

Yep,

I was thinking that you have a base line Deck Score (0 or 50 or 100, whatever). Each card is then rated + or -.

This allows a player to purposely put together a 'weak' deck, say with only 20 points of positive cards, and 20 points of negative cards. Alternately, for "Jimmy Joe the Collectenator" he can put a deck choc full of uber cards with 120 points of good stuff and 120 points of Uber Crapolla.

This, I think, will maybe work better than specifying a limit of good and bad stuff, and allow players to make full use of their colelctions from the start.

It could be that players earn Deck Points. They can then use Deck Points to add extra 'Good Cards' to their deck, or can pick 'Good Cards' for their hands at 2* the cards point value.

EG Bill has a Deck Score of +10, so in game #1 he constructs a deck that balances at zero, then adds 10 extra points of Good Stuff(tm). In game #2 he's up to 12 Deck Points. and decides to start with his Hell Fire Cannon (4 Good Points in starting hand = 8 Deck Points) and sets his deck up with an extra 4 points of Gppd Stuff (8 + 4 = 12 Deck Points)

Anyway, that's the sort of thing I was thinking off whatever the numbers or specifics turn out to be. You get some small measure of character improvement (ie you have an edge over new players) and some extra flexibility.

I suppose an alternative to this would be to still have the point values on cards, but this time you would specificy a card point limit (ie no cards over 5 points), so that when the players have finished 4 games and bumped their limit up, they can finially use the Orbital Laser Strike card. Possibly combine the two so that more advanced Suits can have better enemies and weapons?

I agree with you that whatever points based system should encourage Big Bads rather than just hordes of no-challenge dweebs. Maybe you have another tag on the encounter card (like a Proximity Alert or something) and all players must have X 'Proximity Alerts' in their Decks, thus ensuring a supply of tougher encounters?

Chronicler I agree with, I'm sure something could be done with the PDF generation software to help out there, like a card list with space for alterations.

It might be worth offering two reward systems, one in game and one meta game. The Deck Score is a metagame reward as I see it, as it doesn't really help in a specific instance of the game. In game rewards would be more energy / more life / more cards. These could be handed out for cool story telling, making everyone laugh, a great description ect. It could fall to the Chronicler maybe? They get cards / advantages to hand out on behalf of the group?

I'm not sure if you've got this all mapped out, but it occured to me that it would be possible to have the cards themselves as a play resource. So, if the suit takes damage cards are lost from the hand .. that way taking a beating drops your options as a player. I suppose that could work the other way around too .. have it so that a healthy suit gets relatively few extra cards, leading to a more linear story, whereas a suit that's trashed gets more options (and more chances of altering the story / staying in the game ... interesting ...)

Writing on cards wasn't something I was determined to see .. but it strikes me as an interesting (if expensive!) mechanic and more suited to this 'print-your-own-adventure' than other games.

Out of interest, it sounds like once a set of game mechanics is nailed down it could be applied to other genres ...

Not too sure if I like that, boosting past that 0 point balance.
Because, if you boost the CAP for a player, from say 10 to 15, that means another 5 points of cool tech and another 5 points for a big bad.
Since I'm approaching with more RPG ideas in mind than CG ideas, you WANT bad things, you WANT opposition, otherwise theres nothing to work against. Besides, the opposition helps build better stories ^_^
Besides, Negetive cards don't always need to be truly "negetive". Maybe they do cool things...for enemies, or for other players. Just something you yourself can't make direct use of or provides opposition.
If the advancement is based on the roleplaying and such, you'll want opposing issues for the opprotunity they present to advance. The tech will help, of course, but the opposition and how you manage your way through it is what will count.

I will say, looking at this, the applications are very narrow. Its very much combat oriented, the militaristic themes overriding quite a bit, especially in terms of how its being set up even now (Take down enemy, get points, get gear). The one, really nice thing, is the space setting makes it far easier to do different worlds with a couple decks and a couple sessions. Terrestrial bound campaigns will see more similarity and need for continuity than an insterstellar setting would, where its just as easy to hop to another world for storys sake than try to explain the radically different territory to a character who lived there their entire life.
I'm really seeing this suited to the setting myself, I'm not sure how much could be used in another genre without losing something.

I take your point about changing the point balance, so maybe increasing maximum card values is the way to go instead? Depending on actual play mechanics the Deck Score could be used for maximum hand size, starting cards, energy boosts or something else.

For setting, I'm not so sure what you have here is beyond application elsewhere, but it might take some more detail to bring out the setting through the cards .. off the top of my head, a Planescape style fantasy might work, where you use 'portals' to skip between areas (rooms). It's not too great a step to imagine the game progresses in the 'defeat challenge, get treasure' mould :) Still, I guess any thoughts of applying this across genres can wait till the rules are finalised! :)

So there's ideas for theme, deck construction and possibly advancement. Are the game mechanics already finished or would a discussion of them be helpful? A creative brainstorm to flesh out some ideas for cards? A thought struck me that something similar to the Capes idea of Debt Tokens might work, with the players investing points in certain situations or outcomes of Missions, and harvesting rewards for turning the tide in thier chosen direction.

Mechanics are formulated, but still fairly rough in my mind. I'm writing them up, as well as a sample set of cards for "Distress Signal", a space station themed set.

Per mechanics, lets see what we can do ^_^ I'm still open to suggestions, not too much is layed out in stone.

Per "Distress Signal", I'm working for it to be a sample of how I want to construct the later sets and releases. DS will contain a chunk that'll be a little different, a pre-written plot introduction about recieving a distress signal and meeting other Hunters (players) who arrive at the same time. Later expansions may contain a set of these for ideas, but they won't be pre-written all the time.
Looking at three "themes"- the Station itself, an overgrown, jungle like arborium, and a flooded/underwater portion (cooling systems leaking). Working up some card lists, but feel free to fire away on that as well.

I just read the materials on this game... I may have stepped on your toes namewise without intending to... :S

Ahh! Most joyous occasion!

Well, two ways to go from here:

1) Amicably agree and keep both the same: Hunters, Inc RPG and Hunters CCRPG

or

2) Hold a renaming ceremony for this bastard stepchild of several of my projects ^_^

Really, this was something I started on a whim. I'm accustomed to the title, however you beat me to print by a longshot. SO, your call I suppose. Besides, it might be for the best, lol. Samus is too often referred to as "The Hunter" and "Hunters" is the debut Metroid title for Nintendo's DS system, so similarity is too close possibly for comfort.

In addition to design ideas, any suggestions then on different names?

daMoose_Neo wrote: Really, this was something I started on a whim. I'm accustomed to the title, however you beat me to print by a longshot. SO, your call I suppose. Besides, it might be for the best, lol. Samus is too often referred to as "The Hunter" and "Hunters" is the debut Metroid title for Nintendo's DS system, so similarity is too close possibly for comfort.

daMoose_Neo wrote: In addition to design ideas, any suggestions then on different names?

Ahkay, first draft of some basic card concepts and mechanics. Still working out a list of cards to play around with.

http://www.neoproductions.net/files/HCCRPG.pdf

Take a look, lemme know any thoughts, still working up a name.