Topic: Questions on character sheet design
Started by: gesis
Started on: 1/3/2005
Board: Indie Game Design
On 1/3/2005 at 9:43pm, gesis wrote:
Questions on character sheet design
I'm currently working on an open [universal] system which is cinematic in nature and geared towards the "less is more" style of play. I've reduced almost everything down to a single die mechanic, and a very cinematic method of conflict resolution.
My question is... in a system/game based on simplicity in mechanic, yet graphic and immersive in scope... which do you feel is most important in a character sheet? Reducing the number of pages needed to play, or creating something pretty?
The current sheets we're using essentially tries to fit every single piece of information on the front of a single 8.5"x11" sheet... while still remaining readable. It has a grey background which causes alot of ink usage when printing... but that's the only purely aesthetic piece of the sheet, everything else is kind of crammed together, but not in a cluttered way.
I'm trying to figure out if I should rework the layout into a possible two-page layout and leave room for borders or other florishes?
On 1/3/2005 at 9:52pm, Bankuei wrote:
RE: Questions on character sheet design
Hi gesis,
Convenience is in compactness, athestics in space. Balancing the two isn't easy, although I do have to admit my eyes hurt anytime I look at a D&D character sheet. It's just too crowded, too packed, and too much. Personally, I'm very ok with 2 pages if it has space, because space is often the area that folks draw portraits or scrawl notes on, and that is important for play.
Non-opinion-wise, it would do well to try copying your sheet on a really crappy copier, and seeing what happens with the grey background, as well as trying to write on it with a pencil. Grey backgrounds are really iffy when it comes to readibility, and if you have any kind of funky background design in it, odds are that it will probably either be faded or blotched and hard to recognize.
Chris
On 1/3/2005 at 10:29pm, Eero Tuovinen wrote:
Re: Questions on character sheet design
Nice meeting you, gesis.
gesis wrote:
My question is... in a system/game based on simplicity in mechanic, yet graphic and immersive in scope... which do you feel is most important in a character sheet? Reducing the number of pages needed to play, or creating something pretty?
I might be a little anal retentive in these matters, but IMO it depends fully on the game in question. Can't say based on this information. There's such a multitude of factors: what kind of info on the sheet, what kind of color in the game, that kind of thing. Two examples:
Example 1:
HeroQuest has most of the space on the sheet taken by empty rows for traits. If I were to split the sheet on two pages, I'd do it by putting skills on one side and relationships on the other, perhaps adding the contest table in there as well with the additional room. The game is set in Glorantha, so it'd be quite logical to add pretty as well, there's plenty of material in Glorantha for evocative prettiness. However, there is a beauty in starkness as well, so I'd only do that if it was a monoculture campaign.
Example 2:
octaNe has a halfpage character sheet resembling a car's dash-board. I'd definitely widen it to one page to give it some heft, and would also lose the overtly heavy dash-board. However, it'd be important to preserve simplicity, so I'd probably use mucho white space in there.
See how a good charsheet is a question of graphic design and ergonomics, as well as pure game design? It all depends on the way the sheet is supposed to be used: if it's referenced often and in a random access manner, it should be one-sided if possible, and if two-sided, you should consider concentrating all important stuff on one side, with less referenced things on the other side. If the system has important tables or rules, those can be put on the character sheet as well. If stuff on the sheet is changed often it's again a different matter than if it's pretty much static. We can't say anything too intelligent just based on the game being universal but evocative.
But then again, I'm one of those guys who always design their own sheets for any games they play. Makes for very good sheets, but might not be what you're looking for.
However, I'm inclined to wonder whether the system is really simple if the character cannot be fit on one side of a sheet. Most games I'd consider simple either don't need a character sheet or have one just for kicks.
On 1/4/2005 at 2:21am, gesis wrote:
RE: Questions on character sheet design
The simplicity lies not in the depth of character, but in the mechanics inability to take away from the story, I've attempted to do away with all in-game mathematics.
I don't have the PDF for the original character sheet, or I'd link to it to show what I have as far as what we're currently using [HDD crash caused me to lose it, which is why I'm working on it again in the first place].
As far as color and things for the game itself... I'm only working on a core character sheet for the generic system, something we're using in a playtest environment, but I'd like to make it adaptable to any type of "genre" you'd decide to play.
The system is skill-based at it's core... [aren't all generic systems?] which creates a cause for lookups on the sheet sometimes. Once a player gets to know their character a little, nothing need be refrenced very often... As it is, I have both variable information [health] and skills/equipment on the front of the sheet. The grey background doesn't interfere with writing on the sheet, because there are textboxes for anything one would write. I'm just debating on whether it would be worth it to attempt to keep everything on one-side of the sheet or to perhaps just move some things to the back and leave more room for "fleshing out" the character?
As it is... a friend said he still has a copy of the PDF... I may upload it somewhere so that you all can see what I'm working with.
Essentially, the only information which would be referenced often would be skill levels, health, and weapon stats. I just have such a hard time breaking away from the "standard" of just sticking everything possible on the front. I've always hated combat in d&d because of having to flip back and forth when using spells, or ranged weapons [thank god they fixed that in 3rd edition], and I have a morbid fear of creating another Rifts sheet.
What are everyone's opinion on putting all "action oriented features" on one side, and all flavor information such as character description and what-have-you on the other?
The system itself uses a two-tier system of skills, both generic and specific, and these skills change based on "setting." This leads to a need for a large section of the character sheet to be dedicated to both sets of skills. There is no set skill list though, so I can't just plunk all the skills on the sheet ala dnd. Even combat itself is a skill, and weapons are essentially nothing more than a damage modifier [say if you're firing a .38 special, it's generally not the gun which makes you accurate, it's your skill with the gun, but all .38's firing the same round do the same damage].
Sorry if everything sounds haphazzard, I'm writing this while I have company. All input is appreciated.
On 1/4/2005 at 3:16pm, Sydney Freedberg wrote:
RE: Questions on character sheet design
You might want to check out this thread about character sheet design (now closed).
Forge Reference Links:
Topic 12742
On 1/5/2005 at 7:44pm, IagainstI wrote:
RE: Questions on character sheet design
My question is... in a system/game based on simplicity in mechanic, yet graphic and immersive in scope... which do you feel is most important in a character sheet? Reducing the number of pages needed to play, or creating something pretty?
Quite simply, both. With a little creativity, this is easily possible. The trick is to design the "pretty" elements of your character sheets to also be used for information. For the sheet that I'm currently working on, the attributes block is a crest. All the labels and entry blocks are integrated into the crest so now the top right corner of my character sheet has not only a nice graphic, but also contains a lot of important information.
Using this method is really easy with small bits of information. Larger lists (i.e. skills, traits, etc.) are a bit more difficult. There's not much you can do with this other than to have an interesting border around your lists.
In the end, it is all about blending form and function. Best of luck, and let us know how it turns out.
On 1/5/2005 at 10:04pm, gesis wrote:
RE: Questions on character sheet design
Sydney Freedberg wrote: You might want to check out this thread about character sheet design (now closed).
Thanks for the pointer, I shoulda thought ahead and scoured first.
Forge Reference Links:
Topic 12742