Ahkay, as some know I'm working to convert my trading card game Final Twilight to PDF. As some others may know as well, I'm also working out an RPG that plays like a CCG, using a deck of cards and some random ideas to create worlds, characters and the like.

What I want to know is, what can I get away with when producing such creatues as pay to download trading card games? Here are a list of my concerns/topics of interest:

- Artwork - this is always a stickler for me. The easiest format to produce these for is the business card, as you can run decks off on a few sheets of Avery cards and presto- everyone has standardized cards. Issues with the artwork include:
* Size- Artwork takes up a chunk of space, and on a business card you don't have as much space as you do on a full trading card.
* Ink - Yea, the cards look damn pretty, but artwork can eat up quite a bit of ink.
- Which leads me to: Layouts. For Twilight, I have a rather spiffy, fitting, background template for the cards. Is such a thing on something a PLAYER, not me the publisher, player would mind or on their own printing could it upset them by sucking up the aforementioned ink.
- Is asking for special paper (Avery/Avery-knockoff perforated business cards) too much?

My personal thoughts on this: Scrap the art piece (for Twilight), use a simple but effective and appropriate background, and provide a players handbook that DOES have pretty pictures as well as additional information (almost a certainty with the TCG/RPG game)

Assuming either game would be something thats already caught your eye, what PRODUCT features are something you are looking for and what do you care less about? Is style and appearance important or is it possible to sacrifice some of that stylishness?
What other issues could be seen with a PDF Card Game model (besides the glut of reprinted files and/or piracy issues)?

Nate, I'm not really into CCGs, though I played Magic when it first came out and a few others around that time. But I'll take a stab at why I'd use a paid download .pdf CCG concept. The only reason I can think of is if it were possible for me to buy specifically the cards I wanted. Other than that, I'd rather pay more and get printed cards.

Andrew-
Not too bad an idea. The Twilight packaging concept really lends itself to the idea already.
The main decks are preconstructed as it is, while the Booster "Modular" packs come preconstructed as well- each pack contains 3 different cards, 4 per. A PDF version of the same system might run $1 per 'pack' of 3 selected types.

The 'Hunters' CCRPG idea is a little bit different.
I'm torn between 1 set = 1 cost or a more traditional method, such as a random 'assortment' of various types for a deck. More playtesting is needed to see how packaging will affect the game, but~

Since I'm working on bringing my own CCG to market and I'm looking for ways to cut costs on prototyping, I think it's important to give players that option and give them some advice on printing and finishing the cards.

First, don't assume that players know how to print these things out. Tell them what your recommended stock is. Like 14 pt. C2S stock (laser printer) or photo paper (inkjet).

Recommend techniques to help them cut out their cards (taking them to a print shop to get them guillotine cut).

Tell them to use a matte finish spray if they inkjet the cards.

Also, give them two versions:

a) a nice full color image; and
b) a low ink version

Then, tell them where they can print stuff cheaply:

Now, when you are ready to print out nice full color cards, well locally, I've found printers CRAZY expensive in Boston ($1.25 to $2.50 per page of color laser print on card stock). OUCH!

I did find one outfit online that I haven't tried out yet: Docucopies

http://www.docucopies.com/orderform_copies.asp

They are much cheaper than my local printer. If I find that they do a good job I'll review their print quality on the boards.


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Now, another thing I've been playing around with is how to prototype a CCG where color is important. That can get expensive to color print hundreds of cards for your playtesters. I came up with some useful solutions. If you need a colored border then do most of the card in just black and white and print onto colored card stock. It is WAAY cheaper than trying to burn out your printer cartridge producing a colored border.

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What about spot color? What if you need 1 full color icon on each card? Well, if you are printing on colored card stock this raises problems, because there isn't really a white ink, and so most of the time where you have white on screen your colored stock would show through, causing problems with the resulting icons. I need about 1 colored icon on 50% of my cards.

My solution: Avery makes tiny 1/2" x 1" labels (#05420). I take one of those sheets and tape it onto the middle of a piece of typing paper and run it through my inkjet. Each label sheet prints about 35 labels. Cut them in half and you get 70 icons per sheet. They are adhesive and just a slight bit larger than the size of icons I'm printing. They are a great solution.

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As for you doing the layout, etc. (i.e., info for the publisher and not the player):

I have an all new great tool: Serif Page Plus version 10.

It's great. It's got the equivalent of a mail merge, but it works with graphics too. I keep my data in an MS Access database and then point it to a default template, and it fills in all the blanks.

Unlike a database, where all the fields are nailed down, this lays out each card individually to allow you to make minor custom tweaks to individual card layout.

For playtest I'm using a lot of dingbat fonts. I use an MS Access form to let my click a lot of check boxes and then a query changes the checkbox output to new characters associated with the appropriate dingbat font symbol which is then rendered in Page Plus.

Another thing MS Access & Page Plus let me do allows me to determine if a value for an icon type is present. If so, Page Plus renders a JPEG of the icon and then overlays the value. If the value isn't present, the icon isn't there. Very cool.

Another thing, Page Plus lets you do lots of wacky font fills and effects, allowing me to do drop shadows, glows, and other crazy things, and apply them to data fields, so that the merged output has all the fields appropriately filtered and formatted.

I have different card types and the background image varies dynamically with the type of card.

I highly recommend these applications together.

If you don't have MS Access, no worries. Serif comes with its own database format and is capable of importing data from lots of other sources.

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Also, don't call it a collectible card game if it's sold as PDFs. Call it a "customizable" card game. Which will be more accurate.

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Lastly, I know a couple of companies online who make electronic CCGs that are played online. I think you may be better off (if you can afford the programming time and costs) to develop such a game. There are ways to securely purchase and trade electronic copies of cards as if they were real boosters. The technology has been used successfully by a number of people.

Hope this information is of use to you.

daMoose_Neo wrote: The 'Hunters' CCRPG idea is a little bit different.
I'm torn between 1 set = 1 cost or a more traditional method, such as a random 'assortment' of various types for a deck. More playtesting is needed to see how packaging will affect the game, but~

Thanks for the advice Lee.
As for prototyping, are we talking for playtests or what? All of my playtesting has been done by running text copies off a printer and playing with them in sleeves. Never phased my players and actually I've gotten a hold of a few MtG playtest cards which are exactly the same- b&w printed on the MtG card back.
Prototyping, as done for promotional efforts, is certainly a different creature and should probably be farmed out. MJS Creations out of Arizona is a games prototyper. Depending on the game, can run $10 to $20 per prototype, but it'll save you a LOT of time and energy. That cost too is for a full production type prototype- you can cut corners by using stickers instead of printed boxes, leaving out the rules or common accesories (six sided dice for example).
Either way, going through all of those hoops is a bit much. You might want to keep looking. One way is to go through http://www.gotprint.com, order a few thousand of their trading cards, printed one side for the back, and run off the text faces on your computer. Slip them into those plastic sleeves or tape them on to the backs or whatever.

For layouts I use a set of software that I wrote, works exactly like you're descibing ^_^ Use the database to keep track of everything, run off spoilers etc. Use the software to layout the cards.

I've had this discussion here a few times and my personal leanings on the phrase 'customizable' as well, and thats how Twilight is promoted (or as a Trading card game, but either way never as a collectable).

Lastly, yea, its always good to assume they are morons (thereby planning for and avoiding the stupidest questions), but I'm not involving them in arts and crafts either. I'm working on laying things out so the PDF prints to the perforated sheets of Avery business cards. No cutting, no mess, no fuss. Just print and seperate.

btw, Twilight just went live Beta earlier this week: http://www.ccgworkshop.com

daMoose_Neo wrote: Thanks for the advice Lee.
As for prototyping, are we talking for playtests or what?

All of my playtesting has been done by running text copies off a printer and playing with them in sleeves. Never phased my players and actually I've gotten a hold of a few MtG playtest cards which are exactly the same- b&w printed on the MtG card back.

Prototyping, as done for promotional efforts, is certainly a different creature and should probably be farmed out.

No cutting, no mess, no fuss. Just print and seperate.

btw, Twilight just went live Beta earlier this week: http://www.ccgworkshop.com

My software is fairly manual. To be honest, I haven't even compiled it: I run it from the code, tweak something when it comes up unexpectedly or just manually check all of the cards and dump 300 dpi Images. Wouldn't be hard to add an automated function though, loop the processes and add some more code to do some checks that I do manually.

I wouldn't want to blow out $30+ in ink and photopaper on a PDF product just to find out I don't like it. People may love your game, but they may not know that to begin with.

Right, my ideas on spot color and using colored stock instead of ink for generating colored borders was simply so that you can include ideas for playing with cards with low-ink versions.

BTW -- Avery badges are about the size of playing cards and I like them for prototyping better than business cards.

Depends on your game and how much space you need.

Good luck.

daMoose_Neo wrote: My software is fairly manual. To be honest, I haven't even compiled it: I run it from the code, tweak something when it comes up unexpectedly or just manually check all of the cards and dump 300 dpi Images. Wouldn't be hard to add an automated function though, loop the processes and add some more code to do some checks that I do manually.

Like I said, I wrote it myself, specifically for laying out the cards. No real name for it, nicknamed it 'Mugshot', partly for the modern reference, partly because it generates all of the layout, can check it, and THEN dump it all to a file.
Wrote the software in VB6 using DirectX for the graphics rendering. Everything is formatter for 300 DPI, so I come out of it with perfectly sized layouts.