The following are prep notes for the ongoing campaign, last session discussed here: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=14027

(Note: I’m adapting material from Fury of Shadow here. Thanks again to the authors for lots of evocative material.)

The other player is on a trip to India so I'm expecting to run at least one, if not two more solo sessions for Katrin’s player Lucy.


A Dornish Crown


Shadow forces are gathering for a final onslaught on Erethor, aiming to drive through to Aradiel’s court and destroy the greatest remaining stronghold of the free world. If Caradul falls, the worlds of elves and humans can no longer stand.

Yet as Lady Katrin, heir of the House of Baden, is about to meet Prince Roland Redguard face to face for the first time, the resistance forces in the North are far from united.

Among the Dorns, only three Houses remain free, and each operates much in isolation. Redgard holds court and fights orcs in the icy north of the Veradeen, sandwiched between orcs and elves, far away from other human concerns. The Norfells have turned their back on their lands wasted by orcs and on all collaborators and have taken to piracy on the Pellurian Sea. The Badens live and act undercover in Baden’s Bluff and other occupied cities; for them at least on the face of it, survival means collaboration.

Among elves, the ancient alliance between Snow Elves and Wood Elves is crumbling as the front held by Snow Elves long is crumbling under constant orcish onslaughts. The Elven stronghold Autilar is reaching out for an uneasy truce with the Ice Fang Mother’s tribe, supplying arrows in return for a guarantee that no Black Mirrors will be built on Ice Fang Mother’s land. The Wood Elf court in Caradul is responding in a way long practiced in their dealings with human settlements in Erethor: by cordoning itself off.



Major NPCs:

Roland – Prince of Redgard, Lord of Skyrfell Pike, captain of Roland’s Raiders, a brash and charismatic man. Decades ago he promised to his dying father that he would sweep the orcs and treacherous Sarcosans off the continent and bring Dornland to its former glory. He’s been holding on to this bit of frozen rock, fighting orcs, nurturing his hatred. But he’s isolated, getting old and going nowhere fast. Veddia, who seemed a good way to strike up an alliance with the Badens, is getting more demanding by the day; and now the White Elves, who used to be guides and allies, have turned their backs on all that’s right.

Reifels Redgard is a disappointment to his father, a scholarly cripple who makes maps and dabbles in magic. He loves Snow Elves and values their knowledge, and can’t understand why Roland banned them from his court. Reifels fears and lusts after Veddia in equal measure: he can’t make up his mind whether to court her or loathe her for luring her father into a relationship that may well give him a more warlike son. Reifels has long searched for clues on the fabled ancient Dornish Crown to please his father. Now he believes he has something, but is looking for a more beneficial deal than telling Roland for little gain.

Veddia Allin, Tam’s Allin’s* sister, is Roland’s bodyguard and mistress. She was born into a clan traditionally loyal to the Princes of Baden. Seven years ago she left Baden’s Bluff when Prince Iodor** would neither acknowledge her as his mistress nor grant her a formal position in his resistance network. Veddia is fiercely protective of Roland and determined for him to attain his goal of kingship, seeing this as her own best route to a queenship that her birth wouldn’t warrant. A recent sickness she’s slow to recover from has convinced her that Reifels is working his “sick Elf magic” to do her harm.
*Katrin’s lover
**Katrin’s father

The tracker Nollorn, only son to Uilia, Snow of Autilar, is one of the last Snow Elf children born in this Age. When twenty years ago orcs overran the Pike to get at the Elven children kept safe there, Nollorn was among those saved by Bernt in a suicidal rescue operation that cost Bernt his leg and his love’s life. In an age when Snow Elves, beset on all sides, are turning away from old allies and reaching out to new ones, Nollorn acknowledges his debt and holds firmly to his belief that humans must be dealt with honourably. He feels he has failed Bernt utterly in losing Katrin to Roland’s Raiders.

Charankh the Blind was a priestess of the Ice Fang Mothers when a raid against the humans went bad and she was captured by Roland’s band, four years ago. These days food, preferably still squirming and begging, seems her main concern. How much sanity remains in her after being tortured, mutilated and held in a cage for the entertainment of Roland's court and rare visitors, is anyone’s guess.

Xione, Spirit of Winter. Or someone. Not sure what, if anything, I will do with this.
Howling winds harass and try to whip enemy intruders off the narrow ledge that leads up to the top of Skyrfell Pike, but die down to a gentle whisper around friends.
The Elves speak of a Snow Elf warrior who fought off a pack Fell on his own in the woods and in the end (mortally wounded) was shielded by Xione’s breath so he could move to the top of the Pike and die in peace by a holy pool in a grove. Xione still watches over elves and their friends to this day.
Asking among Roland’s people, you’d hear of Skyrfell, a Dornish hero of an earlier, more glorious age, who led his clan to victory against orcs holding the hill and first built a stronghold there. According to them the howling winds are the furious ghosts of Skyrfell and his warriors, who dyed the path in their lifeblood to secure a place for the rest of their clan, and continue to watch out for Redgards and those friendly to them.




tbc.

StalkingBlue wrote: (Note: I’m adapting material from Fury of Shadow here. Thanks again to the authors for lots of evocative material.)

Shadow forces are gathering for a final onslaught on Erethor, aiming to drive through to Aradiel’s court and destroy the greatest remaining stronghold of the free world. If Caradul falls, the worlds of elves and humans can no longer stand.

Yet as Lady Katrin, heir of the House of Baden, is about to meet Prince Roland Redguard face to face for the first time, the resistance forces in the North are far from united.

Among the Dorns, only three Houses remain free, and each operates much in isolation.

Among elves, the ancient alliance between Snow Elves and Wood Elves is crumbling as the front held by Snow Elves long is crumbling under constant orcish onslaughts.

Oh wow. Brilliant. Oh help... :-)


I'm replying to the grabbiness questions first, a list of Bangs based on them follows. (And afterwards a reply to the general stuff in your post.)

Mike Holmes wrote: RolandWell, the obvious thing was stated at the start, Roland needs to join forces with folks so there's a chance of saving the elves from their impending doom. So he wants our PC to come along. Again, I sense an implicit conflict here - why aren't their houses united already? What stands between them?

What is it that Roland might have to swallow, in order to get her to join?

Reifels Redgard loves and hates his father, apparently. Cool. Wants more than just recognition from his father for his work in getting the crown...OK, why does he need to come to our PC in order to get this? Doesn't feel he can approach his father directly? Or does he think that he can get our PC to join up making it a package deal for the crown and her?

Or, perhaps he wants our PC to do something about Veddia? What does he have to offer, however, that would make Katarin do something to her lover's sister? Is he good looking...?

Veddia AllinSeems pretty straightforward that she wants what Roland wants, for the PC to join up.

She might also want the PC to check out Reifels to see if he's doing magic. Also, Veddia might hold a grudge about Iodor, and/or not like her brother messing with Iodor's heir. So she might directly attack Katrin, or, better, try to involve her in some intrigue only to later betray her, and make Katrin look bad - character assassination. This conflict in the character makes her interesting. She might also simply make Roland bargain harder in not giving in to Katarin's demands.

NollornOK, this guy's background seems to indicate that Katarin has already joined up with Roland. In any case, he seems to want to get Katarin on his side to help with his people's problems. So that's cool as a tug in another direction entirely. What does he have to offer to her?

Charankh the BlindMad is tough. But maybe she only plays mad. Maybe she still plans her escape. Can she get Katarin to help out? Does she have some information to exchange for this, something she's seen in a vision?

Or maybe she just wants revenge, and just wants to give Katarin information that will set everyone at everyone else's throats?
What sort of info would best go to Katarin?

Xione, Spirit of Winter.

Note that the initial "Grab" by an NPC is often a Bang, though not always. It might just set up a bang in a following scene.

Mike

Possible Bangs (and Grabs)

Grouped by NPC, for easier reference to the above. I'll rearrange them in a more logical order to use in the session.

Roland:

- challenges Katrin to prove she is who she claims to be.

- if/when he learns that she's been working with Wood Elves, he offers to accredit her as the Princess of Baden and representative of the Houses of Redgard "and Norfell" (the latter not quite a valid claim), to speak for the Dorns at an upcoming Elven Council. This of course will mean her taking an oath of loyalty to him, a minor matter....

- proposes a strategic alliance through the time-honoured institute of marriage, if things appear to be going smoothly.

- has his guards stop Katrin from leaving, telling her she will leave as his wife and representative, or not at all.

- if Katrin declares herself openly for Nollorn, Roland has her arrested as a traitor and spy.

Reifels

- finds an opportunity to speak to Katrin alone after listening to her talking to his father and Veddia (at dinner in public). Tries to strike up sympathy, possibly by mentioning elves or letting an elf-made item he carries show.

- tells Katrin some of his worries about Veddia. If she indicates understanding or agreement, he asks her to find an opportunity to "speak to his father" about Veddia and "warn him" against her.

- offers help in freeing Nollorn if she helps him with Veddia.

- warns her not to accept his father's offers because her father means to exploit her, as he has always exploited him, and suggests he'll support her (in secret) with advice on the law and politics of the situation. (Hey! He's a lawyer! 'nother ability in Reifels's char notes...)

- offers information on the Dornish Crown and his continued support for her as Princess of Baden in return for her supporting him.

- proposes a strategic alliance through the time-honoured institute of marriage, if a rapport develops between them.


Veddia

- stands at Roland's shoulder as Katrin first meets him.

- approaches Katrin to feel her out and sow doubts about Reifels and others in her mind, representing herself as "the only honest Baden soul" on Skyrfell Pike and insinuating that House Baden should be the First House of Dorns (talking sugar-sweet lies about Katrin's father if necessary).

- tells Katrin about her fears of being magically poisoned by Reifels and asks her to find out what he's up to.

- Hm, why can't Veddia have heard of the Crown... she might tell Katrin that Reifels knows it or even has it secreted away somewhere to spite his father, but she needs proof to convince Roland to take more drastic measures against his son.

- suggests that Katrin accept Roland's offers on the face of it, including any oath of loyalty or betrothal, but write a letter to her father stressing that when the time comes she will declare for the House of Baden and take the Crown for herself. The letter, of course, will be intercepted, and end up in Roland's hands.

- sends Katrin an anonymous note, "If you are a true Erunsil friend, come to the top of the Broken Tower at moonrise." Interesting only after it becomes very clear to Katrin that being a friend of snow elves isn't considered a good thing at Redgard's court.

- or better: hands Katrin a dagger in front of Roland and demands she kill Nollorn to prove who's side she is on.

- if very desperate (and if Katrin has openly declared herself for Nollorn), sneaks out and shoots a guard in the back with elven arrows taken from Nollorn, to make it appear he's a killer and an enemy of men.

Nollorn

- is dragged in, a prisoner, maltreated and interrogated before Katrin's eyes (preferably with both Roland and Veddia present). Charankh may get a minor appearance in this one...
Nollorn won't so much as acknowledge Katrin unless she speaks to him first and admits she knows him.

- if given a chance to talk to Katrin alone, Nollorn implores her to "go leave this insane place" and meet the snow elves as she had planned. He gives her instructions where to go. He says to go to Uilia, Snow of Autilar, and tell her that "I had to do this".

Charankh/Xione

Not sure yet. Some scene involving one of Roland's court talking to her (possibly Reifels on Katrin's behalf, or Roland, or Veddia) and others including Katrin happening on the scene. Might not even have room for this at this point, although if I have a good idea room will open up I'm sure.



Looking any good?

Mike Holmes wrote:

StalkingBlue wrote: (Note: I’m adapting material from Fury of Shadow here. Thanks again to the authors for lots of evocative material.)

Is this a supplement for Midnight?

I think that it's fascinating how authors for D20 settings come up with some really, as you say, evocative NPCs and such, loaded with potential to bring out themes in PCs. All which can't get into play with any ease, because it's not about killin things and taking their stuff.

Shadow forces are gathering for a final onslaught on Erethor, aiming to drive through to Aradiel’s court and destroy the greatest remaining stronghold of the free world. If Caradul falls, the worlds of elves and humans can no longer stand.

Cool, the stakes set at nothing less than the fate of the whole world. I think this is what Midnight is, again, theoretically for, and which I'll bet never gets seen in D20 play.

Yet as Lady Katrin, heir of the House of Baden, is about to meet Prince Roland Redguard face to face for the first time, the resistance forces in the North are far from united.

The conflict is already palpable. Can they put aside their entrenched differences in order to serve the greater good of saving all of creation?

Among elves, the ancient alliance between Snow Elves and Wood Elves is crumbling as the front held by Snow Elves long is crumbling under constant orcish onslaughts.

And the victims that need help are in two factions, one already dealing with the enemy, and the other that wants nothing to do with those come to help. Excellent.

OK, what's a "Black Mirror." Better yet, what are the stats for a Black Mirror? Sounds too cool.

Let's do a Grabbiness check. Grabiness being the quality of an NPC that makes them grab PCs in a way that the player will be interested in.

Cool stuff.

StalkingBlue wrote: Possible Bangs (and Grabs)

I haven't written proper HQ stats for Mirrors yet - I'm a last-minute statter a habit that was vital for my sanity in my DnD days but is terrible for HQ;

It rocked.

And boy-o, talk about talking who Katrin is... Check out the play report: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?p=150143#150143

More later. Your comments were wonderful. Not to mention the encouraging pats on the back: I had good use for those. :-)

In the other thread, you asked about ideas for future play here. The thing is that just from the session description, it can be hard to know what's up.

For example, why did Roland get so angry about the Orc? I can't tell from the description. Was it because of the lack of decorum? Or is he secretly getting visions or something from the orc behind the scenes?

Or are you playing really complexly, and haven't decided why yet? That can be valid. :-)

Why did his son react the way he did to the news? Does he know something about the orc? Or was it, again, just the shock of there having been a slaying at dinner?

What is Reifels hoping will happen with Katrin talking to Roland about Veddia?

Which Bangs do you feel you've used up?

I'm also waiting for some clarifications in the other thread about the mechanics.

Truth be told, I think you still have a couple of sessions more material in Bangs in the prep already here. But it can't hurt to ruminate about it.

One thing that struck me right off was that first scene - I got a very strong visual on what that looked like from your description. It's funny, because for some reason I'd imagined Roland having a big elaborate dark castle. I was surprised at your description of a near ruin. What I thought as she stepped through the door was that it was going to be a ruin and that she was going to meet the spirit there. If you'd done that, it would have been very "Hamlet" as in the first scene where he meets his father's ghost. Have the spirit say some cryptical things, and then come back later, after some action had gone by.

Just thinking that it might do to spook things up a bit. For atmosphere, catch her when she's outside and spring the thing on her with concurrent descriptions of how Katrin's can see her breath in the cold and such. The point is to add a whole additional angle to things. Right now it's shaping up a tad too straighforwardly, IMO. Unless you're looking to end this in the next session or sometime close to that. Even then, more information from new would serve to make the situation less clearcut.

Oh, one thing you definitely have to have happen here is for Tam to show up. I don't know how long the trip was, but if it was long, then he followed her right after she left, and just couldn't catch up. So he's cold and exhausted. Why did he come? Well, he'll probably have some face-saving reason - he found her magic broach or something that he gave her for good luck. But the reality is that he knows that she's walking into danger, and doesn't want her to be there alone.

Not sure this fits what's gone on before. But here's why. Lucy has decided that her character is devoted to Tam. Fine. The problem is that this is shutting down several lines of progress to certain bangs that you worked out. Now, that's not itself a bad thing, but you can potentially open them back up if Tam is present. As long as he's far away, and she's resolute, nothing will change there.

But if he arrives, then things can start to go all to hell. If Katrin puts up a fuss about him following her ("Why did you go and do that?"), then he gets all sullen about it or indignant ("Well that's a nice greeting. I thought you might be pleased to see me. Guess not."). Whatever is in character for him. Then later, Veddia can pressure him to get Katrin to do some things she wants. The point is to put some wedges in their relationship. Then, as soon as the cracks show, have Roland propose (I'm assuming he doesn't know about Tam yet). Or even if he or Reifels does know, have them propose anyhow if/when they see Katrin and Tam having problems. Make the proposal when Katrin's dedication to Tam is weakest, and then it's a bang again. Because if you ask when she's still strong, it's just a perfunctory turn-down. If she turns them down when she and Tam are fighting, it means that she's decided he's OK no matter what. Which is a new statement.

Then, of course, if/when she turns one of them down, you have that individual get all enraged, and take Tam hostage (probably secretly, "don't tell anyone or he's dead.") Then they ask again, "Marry me, or Tam dies." Follow this by the perfunctory evil laugh, "Bwahahahahahahaha!"

If Tam is on top of her value list, then it's best practices to get it so that this relationship is risked, or in question somehow.

Note that I don't know what Tam is like, but you want to do all of this while making him even cooler to the player (though not neccessarily to the character). That is, let's say he's a warrior. If he's kidnapped, there's evidence that he put up a tremendous fight before being captured. Or, if he has foibles play to that - if he drinks too much, they slip him a mickey. The point is that the player wants her character to be in love with somebody worthwhile, not some schmuck. So make sure he stays just as interesting a character through all of this. If it would be uncharacteristic for him to pout, then don't have him do it. Have him show dissapointment in some other way that keeps him interesting.

Mike

Answering the last post first because some of the earlier issues have been eliminated or modified through play.

Before I go into more detail, I agree that this R-map is far from having played itself out. The session provided me with at least two more aspects to give the R-map a sharper definition:

- Possible conflict between Roland and Reifels; if Reifels has some support at court he might end up trying to take over. Especially if Roland ends up being highly emotional/irrational.
(Note to self: I need more NPCs. This may be growing into a mini-Well of Souls setup.)

- Veddia as Wormtongue. This is what Lucy was speculating after the session: to her Veddia came across as very Wormtongue because of what Reifels has said about her. I like this option a lot - if Veddia is Wormtongue and Roland Theoden (and Reifels Eowen), then does that make Katrin Aragorn? This reinforces the "Katrin as Heir and Hero" motif, gives a subtle push towards a romantic involvement Reifels-Katrin, and will double the mess once Tam (now Wormtongue's brother!) arrives on the scene.

Mike Holmes wrote: In the other thread, you asked about ideas for future play here. The thing is that just from the session description, it can be hard to know what's up.

For example, why did Roland get so angry about the Orc? I can't tell from the description. Was it because of the lack of decorum? Or is he secretly getting visions or something from the orc behind the scenes?

Or are you playing really complexly, and haven't decided why yet? That can be valid. :-)

Why did his son react the way he did to the news? Does he know something about the orc? Or was it, again, just the shock of there having been a slaying at dinner?

What is Reifels hoping will happen with Katrin talking to Roland about Veddia?

Which Bangs do you feel you've used up?

One thing that struck me right off was that first scene - I got a very strong visual on what that looked like from your description. It's funny, because for some reason I'd imagined Roland having a big elaborate dark castle. I was surprised at your description of a near ruin.

What I thought as she stepped through the door was that it was going to be a ruin and that she was going to meet the spirit there. If you'd done that, it would have been very "Hamlet" as in the first scene where he meets his father's ghost. Have the spirit say some cryptical things, and then come back later, after some action had gone by.

Just thinking that it might do to spook things up a bit. For atmosphere, catch her when she's outside and spring the thing on her with concurrent descriptions of how Katrin's can see her breath in the cold and such. The point is to add a whole additional angle to things.

Oh, one thing you definitely have to have happen here is for Tam to show up.

But the reality is that he knows that she's walking into danger, and doesn't want her to be there alone.

Lucy has decided that her character is devoted to Tam. Fine. The problem is that this is shutting down several lines of progress to certain bangs that you worked out. Now, that's not itself a bad thing, but you can potentially open them back up if Tam is present.

But if he arrives, then things can start to go all to hell. If Katrin puts up a fuss about him following her ("Why did you go and do that?"), then he gets all sullen about it or indignant ("Well that's a nice greeting. I thought you might be pleased to see me. Guess not."). Whatever is in character for him.

Then later, Veddia can pressure him to get Katrin to do some things she wants.

Then, as soon as the cracks show, have Roland propose (I'm assuming he doesn't know about Tam yet). Or even if he or Reifels does know, have them propose anyhow if/when they see Katrin and Tam having problems.

If she turns them down when she and Tam are fighting, it means that she's decided he's OK no matter what. Which is a new statement.

Then, of course, if/when she turns one of them down, you have that individual get all enraged, and take Tam hostage (probably secretly, "don't tell anyone or he's dead.") Then they ask again, "Marry me, or Tam dies." Follow this by the perfunctory evil laugh, "Bwahahahahahahaha!"

If Tam is on top of her value list, then it's best practices to get it so that this relationship is risked, or in question somehow.

Note that I don't know what Tam is like, but you want to do all of this while making him even cooler to the player (though not neccessarily to the character). That is, let's say he's a warrior. If he's kidnapped, there's evidence that he put up a tremendous fight before being captured.

The point is that the player wants her character to be in love with somebody worthwhile, not some schmuck. So make sure he stays just as interesting a character through all of this. If it would be uncharacteristic for him to pout, then don't have him do it. Have him show dissapointment in some other way that keeps him interesting.

Mike Holmes wrote: Just to be pedantic, the "possible" is sorta redundant. That is, all pre-game prepared bangs are only "possible." That is, none of them should be considered absolute.

And, as always, remember that a bang that you "discover" in play is as good as it sounds to you. Use the best bang you know of next, whether it comes from your prepared list, or it just occured to you.

It's good to think about Bangs in terms of what question they ask the player to answer about the character.

Roland:
- challenges Katrin to prove she is who she claims to be.
- Who does Katrin think she is? How does she see herself. You might want to delay this one until you've played a bit. Because it's so powerful.

This of course will mean her taking an oath of loyalty to him, a minor matter....

- Which is, actually not a minor matter (or it's not a bang). Does she value her independence from Roland, or her status more?

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are the GM's strongest allies, always waiting just off stage to bring in some bit of information, or to get offed when need-be.)

- has his guards stop Katrin from leaving, telling her she will leave as his wife and representative, or not at all.
- Oops, not a bang. No question asked here. It assumes that she's already said no, and it doesn't really give her an option. I mean, it begs only resistance. Now, if instead you say that she's restrained, but has an opportunity to escape by killing somebody potentially important - that could be a bang.

- if Katrin declares herself openly for Nollorn, Roland has her arrested as a traitor and spy.
- Same problem, where's the conflict? What two things that Katrin values does she have to choose between here? Again, this assumes a particular response. Better is to backtrack a bit. Have the Bang be that Roland calls her out on the issue.

Does she stand by her friend to the loss of political power, or does she play Judas for the sake of political expedience?

Reifels

- tells Katrin some of his worries about Veddia. If she indicates understanding or agreement, he asks her to find an opportunity to "speak to his father" about Veddia and "warn him" against her.
- Cool. Is it more important to make an ally of Reifels, or to support her lover's sister? These are both tenuous, I think, so before you do this bang, try to have a scene in which Tam asks her to watch out for Veddia (is he a follower, or NPC?), and another in which Reifels reveals something that will make him a potentially worthwhile ally.

- offers information on the Dornish Crown and his continued support for her as Princess of Baden in return for her supporting him.
- So, does she join with him in secret, or decide that this could mess up her other diplomatic relations?

Since Roland is the superior, I'd have Reifels ask first if at all possible, and in secret, so that the father's offer makes things really problematic. This is really good if she asks for "time to think about it." Even if, not, however, agreeing to marry Reifels, or even disagreeing makes Rolands offer all the more interesting. If she rejects him, and takes Roland's offer, then she'll have made an enemy.

Veddia

- stands at Roland's shoulder as Katrin first meets him.
- No question presented that I can see (note, if I'm just missing some of the questions, just tell me so - I'm just telling you what I'm seeing).

- tells Katrin about her fears of being magically poisoned by Reifels and asks her to find out what he's up to.
- Better. Again, calls for action. Does she respect Reifels privacy more, or want to please Veddia more? Or does she distrust Veddia, and tell Reifels? Lots of possibilities here. This is a good one for later, if she hasn't yet decided on who she's allied with.

- or better: hands Katrin a dagger in front of Roland and demands she kill Nollorn to prove who's side she is on.
- That's later, when things come to a head. The question is obvious: What's more important, the alliance, or the life of a friend? Make sure that before this happens, that dire news of the advance of the orcs comes to them all. So there's a real choice there.

Instead, in this situation, have Roland do something like threaten to kill Tam if she doesn't out the location of the Elf, or something. That changes things to: Tam or Nollorn?

For example, if she decides that this is enough, she might make off with both Tam and Nollorn, and mess up the whole deal at that point. The question then, really, is: Is it worth it to deal with Dornish politics, or is it time to strike back out on her own? Is it OK to save all the people one loves in the short run if this means that the world may fall in the long run?

- is dragged in, a prisoner, maltreated and interrogated before Katrin's eyes (preferably with both Roland and Veddia present). Charankh may get a minor appearance in this one...
Nollorn won't so much as acknowledge Katrin unless she speaks to him first and admits she knows him.
- Very good bang, but, again, you have several now that deal with her potentially revealing her loyalty to Nollorn, or betraying him. It's likely that only a couple of these can work overall.

It does mean, however, that you can allow her to "squeak out of" one or two without answering, defering the answer til later. In any case, try to make sure that there's something else additional on the line in each case to make the question slightly different each time.

- if given a chance to talk to Katrin alone, Nollorn implores her to "go leave this insane place" and meet the snow elves as she had planned. He gives her instructions where to go. He says to go to Uilia, Snow of Autilar, and tell her that "I had to do this".
- This, like some of the other Bangs, asks the question: Stay and deal, or leave? The problem, of course, is that you have to be ready to deal with the "leave" option. Personally, I think that with only one player, that you're eminently set to allow the leave option.

The neat thing is that it probably means just running into another r-map elsewhere, while the old r-map tries to catch up with her. Which sounds cool to me. You can even do this with multiple players, especially if you lengthen out the "down time" between scenes. So that characters traveling is plausible. That or giving them some magical means of travel or something. Such that "leaving" only means slight detachment.

Charankh: Some scene involving one of Roland's court talking to her (possibly Reifels on Katrin's behalf, or Roland, or Veddia) and others including Katrin happening on the scene. Might not even have room for this at this point, although if I have a good idea room will open up I'm sure.
- Asks how she feels about the character in question in terms of their beliefs? I'm a tad confused here about what this implies. What are the local mores concerning dealing with spirits? Is it considered some sort of bad magic?

- I'm liking the idea of needing to do the heroquest. Which would be, of course, climbing the mountain path as per the legend. That is a later bang following th above could be to have the spirit offer her information on how to do the heroquest for something special. The question then becomes about her beliefs, and what she thinks about relating to such a being.

I think that once the above action has worked itself through mostly, that it's time to imediately escalate to the orc attack being iminent. No wating forever for it to get here, the actual attack can be part of play. Another advantage of HQ is that you can play characters through warfare very well. The point being, don't be afraid to get to the action too soon. Allow those worldshaking events to come, and allow the characters to have an impact on them.

I said before that it's good to have the "big bads" statted out for scale's sake, and that's still true. But I didn't mean to imply that you had to do a lot of statting up front. In fact, I was just saying on the HQ-Rules list about how I stat everything last second. In fact, I think it's very valid to even wait for the player to add up all of their augments, and calculate their TN before deciding on a TN for the opposition. You then simply go back and qualify the rating for plausibility's sake after the fact. That is, sometimes you won't have to say anything more about it at all. But just be prepared to say thing like, "Yeah, he was a lot tougher than he looked at first" and "Seemed like a tough guy, but he was all hot air."

From what it sounds like, there's some enchantment around the elven enclave that's being threatened. What power is it that the orcs have - who leads them and what does he wield - that would allow them to invade?

Before you even mentioned the Lunar Magic, I was thinking that Izrador's temples sounded a lot like the "Temples of the Reaching Moon" in Glorantha that are so locally demarked one can actually see the red line where the power reaches to.

BTW, I'd personally stay away from the multipliers for lunar magic, and just have it be an effect like a big guardian (essence). Whose main ability is a big "Enhance Izradroian Magic" rating.

The neat thing about guardians, is that they also get a perception ability, and a defensive ability that they lend in addition to the "offensive" ability above - does this match the abilities of the mirrors? Sounds cool to me if they help Legates discover people using life magic or the like.

Those are about the Bangs I figured you'd used up. Didn't think there were any more.

Consider that for a moment. One Bang from your list (and one destroyed), and the rest was "filling in" play with little bangs or dialog or whatever. That's not atypical. Let's say that you start burning through them at a rate of three per session - that's a lot, I'd argue for this style of play. How many sessions of stuff do you have ready to go then with what's left? Quite a few, eh? See how once you've got the prep like this out of the way, that continuing prep is sooo easy? If you just invent three more Bangs per session, you'll never run out.

Here's something to consider, however...do you want this game to go on forever? One of the advantages of this mode of play is that you can bring a character's story to a conclusion. Doesn't mean you can't do sequels, but it allows you to move on to new concepts if you like.


- Veddia as Wormtongue - I'm fer it, and agin it. The problem again, is that basically Lucy has made her decision already about Veddia. Which isn't terrible, you can play it out that way. It just limits options there. But there's another way to go, which is to try to bring her back to being potentially someone that Katrin can sympathize with. She's smart, no? Can't she find some way to ingratiate herself to Katrin? Or, if not, at least you can get her to be a non-enemy potentially through negotiation. Again, what does Veddia have that Katrin might want?

But I'm waffling on this one. If you want to make Veddia a villain, there's nothing wrong with that, either. In any case, as you point out, having Tam arrive will make Katrin have to deal with Veddia in some ways.

Katrin of course doesn't imagine that Charankh might not have wanted to be killed... (nor does Lucy).

StalkingBlue wrote: The one with the orc was great. I'd been steeering for the issue of the snow elves there, Roland was about to start talking about that when I realised I had captured Lucy with thge description of the orc.

Very helpful again. You know, can't you write a book or something about this stuff? I'd buy it. In fact I'd buy three copies. Or something. :-)

Roland:
- challenges Katrin to prove she is who she claims to be.
- Who does Katrin think she is? How does she see herself. You might want to delay this one until you've played a bit. Because it's so powerful.

You were right, this "event" wasn't very well thought out, I can't see how I'd even have used that. Although what with the tortured orc, we did get a powerful statement about how Katrin sees herself.

Of course it's not minor, anything but that. It's how I was thinking Roland might pitch it to Katrin. That's becoming kind of obsolete now since Katrin has made clear that she's not to be underestimated.

Now, if instead you say that she's restrained, but has an opportunity to escape by killing somebody potentially important - that could be a bang.

Thanks. This event implicitly included a chance to escape in my mind, but you're right that having to kill someone dramatically important is an important addition here.

Good points both, but I needed something for the Reifels scene immediately and I didn't see him mentioning snow elves to her. Much better if she has to go to him about Nollorn at some point.

- offers information on the Dornish Crown and his continued support for her as Princess of Baden in return for her supporting him.
- So, does she join with him in secret, or decide that this could mess up her other diplomatic relations?

This is going to work much better once the tension in the Reifels-Roland-Katrin triangle increases.

Just an event in this case, sorry for confusion. Sort of a note to myself to remember to do the flashback.

- tells Katrin about her fears of being magically poisoned by Reifels and asks her to find out what he's up to.
- Better. Again, calls for action. Does she respect Reifels privacy more, or want to please Veddia more? Or does she distrust Veddia, and tell Reifels? Lots of possibilities here. This is a good one for later, if she hasn't yet decided on who she's allied with.

Maybe later. If Lucy continues to see Veddia as Wormtongue it's not going to have any great impact.

I'll have to think whether I can have both Nollorn and Tam be beaten up and arrested by Roland's men, without creating involuntary comedy here. Maybe they had joined forces temporarily or something... not sure how I can make that work or whether I should.
(Could always have Nollorn be caught sneaking around inside Roland's stronghold ...)

Of course. I wasn't meaning to use all of them. Although I must have been feeling it was an important enough question to provide so many bangs for it - currently it looks more like a welcome added complication than a core issue to me.

It does mean, however, that you can allow her to "squeak out of" one or two without answering, defering the answer til later. In any case, try to make sure that there's something else additional on the line in each case to make the question slightly different each time.

Oh cool. (That so applies to Katrin insisting she's marrying Tam...)

The neat thing is that it probably means just running into another r-map elsewhere, while the old r-map tries to catch up with her. Which sounds cool to me. You can even do this with multiple players, especially if you lengthen out the "down time" between scenes. So that characters traveling is plausible. That or giving them some magical means of travel or something. Such that "leaving" only means slight detachment.

We have magic travel in place (although it's limited, can be erratic and is not always available to humans because it's controlled by the elves).

Oh hell, I realise I forgot to explain one really central thing here. No, spirits aren't considered bad at Redgard's court.

Orcs are.

Roland has specific personal reasons to hate orcs bitterly. His son Reifels's birth defect results from the stress of a particularly bloody orc attack that triggered his birth. The mother died in childbirth and Roland wasn't there because he was fighting.

Now here's my new aspect to this: Charankh was captured in that attack and Roland vowed to keep her alive and suffering for as long as he lived in revenge. (He may still have come to depend on her visions later.)

- I'm liking the idea of needing to do the heroquest. Which would be, of course, climbing the mountain path as per the legend. That is a later bang following th above could be to have the spirit offer her information on how to do the heroquest for something special. The question then becomes about her beliefs, and what she thinks about relating to such a being.

I want to tie this in with Charankh now. And with Reifels and Roland fighting over the Redgard throne. And with the Dornish Alliance. And with the orcs of Charankh's tribe (who of course are rebelling against Izradorm, that's why they are treating with the snow elves now).

I did that with Roland, but felt terribly guilty about it. When she was calculating her TN and I checked my notes (mostly for nervousness), Lucy asked whether Roland was fully statted ... I told her no, not fully. In reality I had his highest rating and his brief description in this thread (and what was in my mind about him) and that was it.

BTW, I'd personally stay away from the multipliers for lunar magic, and just have it be an effect like a big guardian (essence). Whose main ability is a big "Enhance Izradroian Magic" rating.

Can you carry guardians around in their essence, do you think? Or bits of guardians? :-)

The neat thing about guardians, is that they also get a perception ability, and a defensive ability that they lend in addition to the "offensive" ability above - does this match the abilities of the mirrors? Sounds cool to me if they help Legates discover people using life magic or the like.

Très cool. It doesn't quite match what is in the books but I could simply introduce it because the players have staid away from temples in the past (except on one occasion).

The entities discovering magic for Legates are Astiraxes, which are incorporeal demons that can fly around invisibly, or possess animals. Could those be linked to a guardian in a temple do you think? Like white blood cells floating around the world keeping Izrador's system "healthy"?

StalkingBlue wrote:

It's a boxed set and in my opinion the best and most evocative supplement for Midnight so far. By a long road. Written by Judd Karlman (Paka), Owain Abramczyk, Iain J Brogan and Eric Olson.

Mike Holmes wrote: See how once you've got the prep like this out of the way, that continuing prep is sooo easy? If you just invent three more Bangs per session, you'll never run out.

Here's something to consider, however...do you want this game to go on forever? One of the advantages of this mode of play is that you can bring a character's story to a conclusion. Doesn't mean you can't do sequels, but it allows you to move on to new concepts if you like.

- Veddia as Wormtongue - I'm fer it, and agin it. The problem again, is that basically Lucy has made her decision already about Veddia. Which isn't terrible, you can play it out that way. It just limits options there. But there's another way to go, which is to try to bring her back to being potentially someone that Katrin can sympathize with. She's smart, no? Can't she find some way to ingratiate herself to Katrin? Or, if not, at least you can get her to be a non-enemy potentially through negotiation.

Katrin of course doesn't imagine that Charankh might not have wanted to be killed... (nor does Lucy).

Really? I mean, most creatures have a sense of self-preservation, why would she assume otherwise in this case? She thought it was a mercy-killing? I note you use that term somewhere, but it seemed to me to be very vengeant when I read about it. Or was it some of each? Showing her compassionate and violent sides simultaneously? Hmmm.

You have to be careful when using the term "spirit" when playing HQ. In HQ it pretty much means "being from the spirit world." So a ghost could be a spirit, but it could be other things as well. It's complicated.

BTW, does she have any flaws, Katrin? Snide comments that prey on those are good.

Again, don't make Tam an ass, just make him very in love with her, and very hurt that she thinks that the fortress is more important than them being together. Or somesuch. Then just throw in more scenes before she has a chance to go try and reconcile with him. Have a bang ready where he's done something really irresponsible in his state that threatens the whole alliance. Like you say, he get's drunk and maims one of Roland's men or something. Just to make reconciliation that much harder.

Very helpful again. You know, can't you write a book or something about this stuff? I'd buy it. In fact I'd buy three copies. Or something. :-)

Sorcerer - Ron Edwards. Along with the Sorcerer supplements (especially Sorcerer & Sword for fantasy games).

Perhaps Roland thinks that she's a doppleganger, or a spy in a glamour, in some fit of paranoia. So he asks her to take part in a little ritual that they have to detect the Terminators. During which she's asked to speak about who she thinks she is.

I always like it when there's a third desperation out option. For when characters can't decide between the other two options. Choosing the out shows just how hard the decision is. Then, later, you make them choose anyhow. :-)

Cool flashback, too. Good information dropped. I'd just make such notes separate from your Bangs. The informational stuff is pretty much mandatory, as opposed to bangs. So you don't want to mix them up.

When she was calculating her TN and I checked my notes (mostly for nervousness), Lucy asked whether Roland was fully statted ... I told her no, not fully.

Next time she asks if somebody is statted out, say, "Why do you ask?"

Guardians come in three sorts, and I think the temples would be Manifestations, actually.

What is it they carry around? Bowls of the liquid or something? If so, do they have powers separate from those of the temple? Or are they just good for setting up new locations?

So, for example, a new temple starts with it's bowl at 13 ratings. Then it grows over time, until it's got very high ratings, let's say our temple gets to a 20W3. At that point we decide to relocate some to a new temple. So we siphon off 13 points into a bowl leaving 7W3, and take that bowl to a new location during which we'll have 13 ratings all the way there. Once "planted" it can start to grow there again.

Does that match?

Again, use with the range rules. So, at 1 mile the power is -20. At 5 miles -40, at 25 miles -60, at 125 miles -80. Meaning that at 20W3, you'd still have a 20 at 25 miles out from the temple, but at 125 you'd be down to zero. Does that match? Sounds cool to me, anyhow. :-)

Here's an updated NPC list for Katrin's part of the game. Bangs (and prep notes for the other PC) to follow.

Katrin

Info to be dropped
(to be completed)
- Roland hated Charankh because she was part of the raid that got his wife killed and resulted in Reifels being born a cripple
- As a child Reifels was locked up next to Charankh for punishment
- Olec of Eirinn is treating with Roland behind the Ladies of Norfell’s back
- The Shadow Offensive is imminent
- If anything could draw Dorns together under a single banner for a Final Battle, it is the long-lost Dornish Crown.

---

Roland & Co.:

ROLAND REDGUARD, LORD OF SKYRFELL PIKE
Wants:
To become King of Dorns
Needs Katrin to:
Support him politically in negotiations with the wood elves
Acknowledge Redguard’s precedence over Baden (oaths, marriage)
Can offer to Katrin:
Political alliance to fight the Shadow
Backing from the “King of Dornland” in her dealings with the wood elves

VEDDIA, ROLAND’S MISTRESS AND ADVISOR ON BADEN POLITICS
Wants:
Roland to be become King of Dorns with Veddia as his Queen
Needs Katrin to:
Support Roland in whatever way he wishes – except:
Not threaten Veddia’s position with Roland
Can offer to Katrin:
Inside information on Roland
Influence on Tam
Communications line to Baden’s Bluff

OLEC OF EIRINN, HEAD OF CLAN EIRINN
Wants:
To replace Norfell as a Dornish House in Roland’s Dornland
Needs Katrin to:
Recognise Eirinn as a House
Acknowledge Olec’s seniority over Katrin as Roland’s retainer
Not betray him to the Norfell ladies before time
Support Roland as King of Dorns
Can offer to Katrin:
Information on what happened to Tam

---

Reifels & Co.:

REIFELS REDGUARD
Wants:
To become King of Dorns
His father’s love and recognition
Needs Katrin to:
Support him against his father and Veddia
Be his friend
Help him to retrieve the Dornish Crown
Can offer to Katrin:
Historical and political information
Friendship
A way to free herself of Charankh's haunting (by doing the heroquest)
A way to the Dornish Crown


OLD HON, THE PIKE’S KENNEL MASTER
Wants:
Honour of House Redguard restored
Reifels to be recognised as heir
Needs Katrin to:
Uphold old Dornish honour
Influence Roland
Support Reifels
Can offer to Katrin:
Inside information on things on and around the Pike (including a way out if need be)

CHARANKH’S GHOST
Wants:
The orc ghosts on the Pike to rest in peace
To revenge herself on the Redguards
Needs Katrin to:
Help with Reifels’s heroquest to retrieve the Crown
Can offer to Katrin:
A way into the Veil (otherworld) for the heroquest
The Dornish Crown for Katrin herself

---

Others:

TAM ALLIN, KATRIN’S LOVE AND VEDDIA’S LITTLE BROTHER
Wants:
Katrin. Only Katrin.
Needs Katrin to:
Marry him
Can offer to Katrin:
Utter love and personal loyalty
Marriage – or giving her up to provide room for a politically beneficial marriage


“JAN” JARANDUR WYM, GNOME TRADER
Wants:
Bearer of contraband goods, news and letters from the east.
“As long as there remains a song and smile in these lands, Father River will flow and the Sun will rise.”
(He's not designed to be too proactive, I'll explain his reason for being here when I list events and Bangs.)
Needs Katrin to:
Keep hope and continue the fight.
Grant “trade privileges for the gnomes in New Dornland.” (said with a "Next year in Jerusalem" kind of smile)
Can offer to Katrin:
Recent news from Baden’s Bluff and Norfell.
Possibly some sort of revelation about / communication with Jez's sword.


IODOR PRINCE OF BADEN, KATRIN’S FATHER
Wants:
To die fighting the Shadow
To have word from his daughter before he does so
To know his daughter did all she could to keep fighting the Shadow
Needs Katrin to:
To forge a Dornish alliance, no matter what the price
Can offer to Katrin:
Emotional support and recognition


NOLLORN
Wants:
Support for the snow elves
Needs Katrin to:
Contact his mother, bring news of Nollorn and learn the truth about the treaty between snow elves and orcs
Speak and act in favour of snow elves
Can offer to Katrin:
Introduction to snow elves
Potential allies in the Final Battle
Inside information on Ice Fang Mother orcs (Charankh’s tribe)

INFO, EVENTS AND BANGS FOR KATRIN

This is what I have so far. It's growing ever longer and more complex. I’m updating, adding stuff and stealing shamelessly from your kibitzing advice. Not a clue how I’ll ever do all this stuff justice in play.

Info to be dropped
(updated from above)

- Roland hated Charankh because she was part of the raid that got his wife killed and resulted in Reifels being born a cripple.

- As a child Reifels was locked up next to Charankh for punishment.
Charankh was Reifels’s “most patient sitter” for his drawings.
- Reifels was the first one to see Charankh’s ghost, the instant she died. (He knew she was dead before Katrin told him, but not how she’d died.)

- Reifels knows more than anyone in the region about Dornish history, laws and customs.

- Not everyone on the Pike is happy with the way Roland runs things. In exposing Roland’s treatment of Charankh, Katrin struck a note with some of Roland’s followers.

- Olec of Eirinn, formally a retainer of House Norfell, deals with Roland behind the back of the Ladies of Norfell.

- The Shadow Offensive is imminent.
- If anything can draw Dorns together under a single banner for a Final Battle, it is the long-lost Dornish Crown.
- If there is to be a chance for a Final Battle, the Dorns have to unite and hit the Shadow. Now. Or it will be too late.



Events

- Katrin’s dream: Katrin and her father going through endless stacks of books and ancient papers to find proof of her marriage that will put things right. Winter storms shriek and howl. Arrenu’s Jester blown about like a patchwork leaf in the storm, shouting inaudible words at her over and over. A shadow figure hulking in a corner of Katrin’s dark bedroom. Death screams of children. The sour smell of blood.

- Olec of Eirinn swears loyalty to Roland and is made Roland’s general.

- Increasing signs of Katrin being haunted. (Details to follow.)

- Possibly increasing signs of Roland becoming disturbed and withdrawn. (This could reinforce the suspicion of Veddia being a Wormtongue. It would be due to haunting by Charankh, who is half mad with an urge to have her revenge and with pressure from the wind ghosts/spirits to act before the Shadow forces arrive.)

- The weather worsens progressively. (This is due partly to Charankh being pushed and hassled by the competing Spirit of Winter entities, and partly to the Shadow forces advancing under a screen of icy, sunless weather.)

- Tam arrives with the survivors of a Redguard patrol. They have run into a bloody ambush set by orc snipers with elven longbows and arrows just as he stumbled into them in the snowstorm; and they have Nollorn prisoner.

- Tam speaks to Katrin briefly and sulks off.

- Snide remarks for Tam to shoot at Katrin: (not expecting to use all of these of course)
- You’re remembering you’re too good for me.
- You’re like your father after all: all politics and no honour.
- When your dead boyfriend wanted your attention, you were all there for him.
- There is no winning this war. There is no Dornland, no future, no King of Dorns. All that is left is to die well, and don't you want to die with me at your side?

- Tam, egged on by Olec (and/or Veddia), drinks too much and gets into a fight with whoever will cause most trouble for Katrin. Might wound one of Roland’s men or the Old Hon, or harass or beat up Reifels.

- Tam tells Katrin she is “like her father” and will ditch Tam for political reasons just like Iodor ditched “you know whom.” (Veddia)

- Tam disappears. (Have to decide what happened here. Either Roland or someone loyal to Reifels kidnapped him, most likely. Alternatively, they could all claim they have him when in reality he has run off in anger during the night, and is currently out with a patrol.)

- Katrin receives a letter from her father, telling her of the family’s preparations for the impending final assault, sending her mother’s love and bidding her farewell, and hoping that above all she “will remember that she is a Baden in these final days.”
(Spiking any sort of conflict about where to put her loyalties in this Dornish mess. Some things I can have him stress:
- the tradition of filial duty, to show that an alliance with Reifels against his father will breach some rules;
- the Baden’s precedence amongst Dornish Houses, as a reminder that Katrin shouldn’t be anyone’s general, let alone Olec’s inferior;
- a Baden’s commitment to always do your duty regardless of the personal price you pay for it, to throw a shadow over Katrin’s commitment to Tam when she could forge a Dornish alliance by marrying either of the Redguards instead.)

- Communication of some sort happens between Katrin, the gnome trader Jan and Jez’s sword. Possibly tied in to Katrin being haunted by Charankh. Not sure about the details yet.
(I'm including Jan mostly as a multi-purpose Rosencrantz here. Note that Jan figured prominently in an earlier scenario and while Katrin never met Jan, Lucy's previous PC Jez did. We had a scene charged with emotion in which Jan prodded the PCs into holding an impromptu wake for the wood elf Loren, another PC who'd recently been killed (played by Apari’s player). Apari was present at the wake, and a little later Apari, Jez and others saved Jan’s life.)



Bangs

- Roland asks Katrin to swear loyalty to him in return for being made his general and official representatives with the wood elves. The oath is to "Roland Redguard Lord of Skyrfell Pike, King of Dorns.”

- After Roland makes Olec his general, Olec snubs Katrin in front of Roland.

- When Katrin turns up to talk to Roland against Veddia (or say anything she wouldn't want Veddia to hear), Veddia will be present.

- Soon after Katrin takes the oath, Veddia (who has realised Roland means to marry Katrin) asks Katrin to write a letter to her father to inform him of the oath and to reassure him that despite it the precedence of house Baden will be preserved.
(If Veddia doesn't have ground to stand on with Katrin, she gets Tam to ask Katrin instead.)

- Roland confronts Katrin about her letter to her father.

- Reifels tells Katrin about the Dornish Crown and the myth, and asks for her help in retrieving it behind Roland’s back.

- Veddia believes that Reifels has the Dornish Crown (because Charankh told her so before she died) and asks to spy on Reifels to find confirmation before they can expose him to his father.

- Reifels asks Katrin to promise to marry him “because that is how it was in the myth.”

- Roland asks for Katrin's hand in marriage to seal the alliance of the “Last Two Houses”, which will negate Olec’s claim to Eirinn becoming the third House.

- Roland tells Katrin that she’ll see Tam again only if she marries him (Roland).

- Someone asks some huge (preferably dangerous and/or odious) favour in return for telling Katrin where Tam is.

- Reifels offers Katrin help in freeing Nollorn if she does what he wants (marry her, go on the heroquest with him.)

- Olec has found Tam someone in the Eirinn retinue who can perform the wedding rites. Tam tells Katrin to marry him right away to show her commitment in front of everyone and prove she is “not like her father”.

- Once Katrin’s alliance with Roland is at risk (e.g. because Roland has Katrin's letter to her father if she wrote it), Veddia demands that Katrin kill Nollorn in front of Roland to prove her loyalty.

- Roland challenges Katrin to prove who she is, possibly involving a magic ritual. (Can I get Charankh to mess with Katrin in that? Hmm. Maybe by putting images of being an orc and defending her clan in Katrin’s head?)

- Veddia or Olec (or both? hm, maybe developments could push those two together into the same boat) sends Katrin an anonymous note "If you are a true friend of the Erunsil, come to the Broken Tower at moonrise”) in an attempt to expose Katrin to Roland as a traitress.

- Nollorn implores Katrin in secret to flee from the Pike, see his mother Uilia in Autilar, tell her where he is and that he asks her forgiveness for disobeying her orders. He asks her to give Uilia a chance to prove that the snow elves aren't betraying the free world. He can't speak more openly “because the orcs are watching me". (Charankh’s ghost and other orc ghosts lingering in the place where she used to be locked up.)

- If Katrin gets herself imprisoned on the Pike, someone she likes (Reifels?) will stand in her way as she escapes.

And here what I have so far for the spirit of winter and the heroquest:


Xione, Spirit of Winter

Not just one NPC. I have decided that the winds howling around the Pike consist of three groups of entities:
- the souls of the clan of orcs slaughtered by the first Dorns ever to take the Pike and their guardian spirit; now joined by the ghost of Charankh who was able to open the way to the otherworld in life and hovers on the threshold in death;
- the souls of the Dorns who fell in taking the Pike, and of those killed later when the orcs flowed back in force; and
- Xione, a spirit of winter bound in ancient times by the elthedar, the elves’ ancestors. Xione’s binding is the reason this local sliver of spirit world remained accessible from the physical world when Izrador fell and connections to other planes were mostly severed.
The raging souls of an entire orc clan (young and all), angry dead Dornish warriors and two spirits, one orc-bound, one bound long before Izrador’s Fall by a people that has been extinct for millennia. Quite a Midnightish mess. I should be able to do something cool with that. For example, see the following.

Notes for the heroquest:

- The original hero’s name was Reifels Windrunner, a Redguard prince of an earlier age. He was aided by a Dornish shieldmaiden who married him at the foot of the mountain, thereby ending an old feud between clans and bringing their followers together against the orcs. (Katrin can still aid Reifels without marrying him, I need a sufficiently Katrin-ish name or other connection for the shieldmaiden so she’ll know her presence is still a benefit.)

- Three times on the way up she saved his life. (Much room for variation here, if desired.)

- In modern-day Katrin's and Reifels's heroquest, Charankh and the orc guardian attempt to distract Katrin from her purpose by showing her flashes of defenceless orc children butchered by Dornish blades, Tam dying further down the hill (especially if he isn't in the heroquest at all), the chained Charankh’s shock and ruptured scream as she falls (again and again) under Katrin’s blow, etc. Echoes of the haunting from earlier good to include here, too.

- At the top of the mountain was a round white mound, which the Dorns soaked crimson with the blood of their fallen enemies.

- What the myth doesn’t say (or perhaps the myth does say so but Reifels lied to Katrin) is that those “fallen enemies” included Dorns rising from the dead and joining the orcs in the defence of their home and sacred place, as well as orc children slaughtered over the mound to supply more blood, and even the Halfling slaves the Dorns brought in their baggage train. (In the early days of their conquest of the continent, the Dorns enslaved Halflings – long before Izrador ever got his shadowy little claws on them.)

- When all orcs of the Pike lay dead on the mound and no bits of it remained white, the mound cracked and opened into a chamber, which contained the iron headband that became the Dornish Crown.

- In modern-day Katrin’s and Reifels’s heroquest, I might have Reifels take a position opposed to Katrin's. If she refuses to butcher orc children etc., he'll be the ruthless one. If she is prepared to kill whoever it takes to get at the Crown, he will falter.

- If the blood sacrifice is not made, two women’s ghosts appear: Reifels’s insane mother and Charankh, telling the heroes that another way to open the mound is for either of them to kill the other. If Katrin has responded to Charankh’s hauntings and understands she has done her wrong in killing her defenceless, and has refused to butcher orc young, Charankh will aid her because she has been understood and because being from a matriarchal and war-focussed culture, she wants the warrior female to rule, not the crippled male. She will back Katrin and goad her to kill Reifels, while Reifels’s mother will recognise her son and support him against Katrin. If Charankh remains hostile to Katrin, Reifels’s mother will be too confused to know her son, and will insist that Katrin as the “last surviving princess” spill “that poor cripple’s blood and end our sufferings” and take the Crown. (Now if we ever get to a point like this, Tam has to turn up to complete the mess. He could even offer to sacrifice himself to complete the quest. How’s that?)

Pretty rough draft so far, but I’m really liking the drift. Much indebted to you Mike, for some wonderful ideas to work with.

Paka wrote: WOW.

I'm so glad you liked it.

Thanks.

More on this thread in a bit, just wanted to say thanks.

Woo-hoo.

And here are prep notes for the other PC, Apari. The player will be back on Thursday and will be playing Apari in HQ for the first time.

PC: Apari Ghostwalker

Keywords:
Jungle Elf 17
Ghostwalker 9w (Two-Dagger Fighting, Use Jungle Poison, Hide, Keen Sense, Wilderness Survival, Track, Endurance, Identify Target)
Swamp magic 13 (Draw Water, Waking Nightmare, Find Path, Ghost Flicker)
Pair of Covenant Daggers 13 (magic abilities to be defined as we go)
Abilities increased:
Two-Dagger Fighting 19w2, Keen Sense 19w, Wilderness Survival 19w, Waking Nightmare (feat) 3w, Commanding Presence 3w2

No relationships yet. He’ll get three relationships to existing NPCs of his choice for free. I have an idea who he’ll be likely to choose. Still, I’d have liked to confirm this with him pre-game, but my experience with this particular player is that online negotiation doesn’t work well (he hates writing stuff down), so we’ll have to do it at the start of the session.

I know this character a great deal less well than Katrin. Apari has gone through some major changes in converting to HeroQuest. He was a quiet, shy Channeler before and now is focussed on dagger fighting, with a commanding presence and trailing wisps of mist after him wherever he goes (player’s idea).

The abilities the player put points into mostly say “powergamer” to me, although the Commanding Presence is a result of Apari talking a racist Wood Elf into a new attitude at a conference, a scene the player asked for and which we all (including him) enjoyed a lot. So he’s hungry to see his character as powerful, no big surprise for someone who’s been used to playing DnD. Fine by me, I’m happy to provide him with opportunities to shine in a Clint-Eastwood-Elf capacity if that’s what he wants.

He has asked me to add an ability to communicate with “spirits” to the Ghostwalker keyword. I think he means ghosts of dead people, but have to confirm with him. I’m definitely happy with him having that kind of ability because it’ll give us more chances to explore cool and unique stuff with the character. (Including getting him into wonderful messes of course.) Not sure whether I should have him take it as a separate ability though? I don’t really want to suppress him for reasons of balance (he’s heard that word a lot in the past), but am I making his Ghostwalker keyword too broad here? The concept for the keyword is a specially trained assassin-type jungle warrior – perhaps we could say that you get into that occupation only if you are haunted/protected/chosen by ghosts (or spirits, whether that’s Midnight spirits or Glorantha-type spirits is yet another question). Not sure what the player wants and not sure whether I’m overextending that keyword. An alternative might be to put the ghost-talk ability into the magic keyword (currently a “swamp” affinity, but we could change that to something like “mist spirits”, “fog of the dead” or something - always assuming we stay with a theism-type concept).

He also keeps telling me that he has a “story” in mind about what the character has been doing in the two months of downtime since we last played. I suspect it may involve the ghost of his dead wife (half-mentioned backstory) from whom he recently got his pair of covenant daggers (result of our negotiations when we converted to HeroQuest). If he doesn’t write his story before we play on Thursday, I’ll see whether I can invite him into playing it out in a flashback.


Setup Events/Bangs

I have already told the player that Katrin is currently off on her own and that I’ll be offering Apari a number of options, each of which will be equally valid. Remembering his preferences, I should also stress to him that each option will involve plenty of chances of combat happening.


Currently I’m thinking:

The racist wood elf Inahas offers Apari a job as an official emissary to Apari’s native people, the Jungle Elves, to try and get them into a fighting alliance with the wood elves. The Jungle Elves remain isolationist and limit themselves to fighting demons (Midnight demons, not Gloranthan demons necessarily) in the jungles of the Aruun.

The old jungle elf Atunga asks Apari to turn Inahas down and investigates the matter of the Snow Elves instead. Apparently Snow Elves won’t even be represented at the upcoming elven strategy council, and Atunga suspects some sort of racist foul play that in his experience will invariably have repercussions on the other elven minority, the Jungle Elves.

A local gnome trader, Wendol, brings accumulating letters from Arrenu (Katrin’s undead ex-lover) that report major troops movements and an impending Shadow offensive from the south-east … and contain an offer to establish contact to a “possible defector of the highest rank”. (The Night King Jahzir, in fact.)
Wendol’s appearance with the letters addressed to Katrin will also draw Apari’s attention to the fact that both Katrin and Tam have disappeared. (And so has Bernt, although he’s easy to find for an elf: the wood elves arrested him when he guided Katrin to the Passing Stone, and since he’s not saying why he was trespassing beyond the no-humans line they’re not letting him go.)

Which already gives a number of options:
- Go south on a political mission as Inahas wants. Lots of opportunities for demon-fighting, possible homecoming issues, and he’ll likely end up directly in the path of the south-eastern prong of the Shadow offensive.
- Investigate the Snow Elf issue for Atunga. This will likely lead Apari north to the Snow Elves, ie close to Katrin.
- Meet Arrenu and negotiate terms for the defector on behalf of the wood elves.
- Track down and rejoin Katrin. The obvious way to do this is to go through Bernt, which will again result in Apari going to the Snow Elves first because Bernt has no way of knowing that Katrin ended up with Roland.

In addition to which, the ghost of Apari’s wife might well have her own agenda if I can get the player to trust me and include her into the game.

And that’s not even mentioning that since last time we played, Apari has become responsible for an area of forest and a chamber with a lingering magical “echo” of a “mother angel” in it that the player was keen to explore further at the time – in order to gain additional magic powers. If I offer a prospect of magic powers (rather than tell the player that Apari has made a little progress with the "echo" but understands he would need months of time to really benefit from it), he might still be interested. I’m leaning towards suggesting that this would take too much time. Though if he’s really keen, I can work with this, too. The “baby angel” who Apari and Katrin saved from being eaten by spider demons at birth has gone off “to find his people”, so an alliance with those beings might become an opportunity.

On a side note, I haven't decided how to convert the "angels" and "demons". I used DnD angel and demon stats for the creatures in the event. The pregnant angel had been hurtled to Aryth in the wake of Izrador's fall (according to the baby, the Big Dark One was wrestling the Sister of Light as he fell). This makes the angel a minion of a goddess from a pantheon, which sounds like creatures from a theist otherworld to me; that about right?


Assuming that the session is about evenly divided between the two players, Apari’s player will have 1.5-2 hours of screen time in this first session. I suspect I won’t need much more than the above in the way of setup, other than - of course – an opportunity or three for Apari-Eastwood to shine fighting a whole bunch of orcs or local spider demons.

Wow, lots of cool stuff. I have less comments this time.

First, you commented after one of the techniques that I gave you that it made you want to play in my game. Something to realize, knowing what to do, and actually doing it consistently are two different things. That is, I only wish that I had the presence of mind to do all of the things that I suggest here all of the time. While I know these techniques, I also forget them a lot, and only use them intermittently.

What I'm trying to say is that if you did see my game, you might be seriously underwhelmed by it. Oh, I think I do fine, but it's far from the perfection that might be painted by my words here that I have lots of time to think about. Play is a highly imperfect thing, and that goes for everybody.

The point is that you should consider that you're game as it currently is, is probably for all intents and purposes as good as mine is. I mean, you seem to be having fun, and that's the only criteria. Can your game improve? Perhaps. But that doesn't mean that you haven't already graduated.

There's nothing really complicated about these techniques. Would you agree? I mean, it's just a matter of knowing them generally and using them. It's not supposed to be hard, and I don't think it is. We've gone through an extensive treatment of your play, but, if anything, I've overdone it to illustrate.

The follow up to which is that I'm going to back off now, because there's really little for me to do. I can't find anything with your prep that I'd change that doesn't come down to taste really at this point. In fact, now I'm learning from you. I'm going to use the NPC enumeration that you used back there from now on. Really good idea that.


I have some other comments outside of technique, however. Didn't think it was going to be that easy to get rid of me, did you? ;-)

On the subject of a "How to" book on prep of this sort, I've been helping out a little with somebody who's already on it. So it's on the way.

A theist being like you're looking for above is a Daimone. I'm not sure where you want to go with the whole "otherworld" thing here. Scott's original conversion said that there was only "the Shadow" as an otherworld, and that all other worship was misapplied. That is, that there's only one otherworld according to his reading. This actually seems to work with what you said about people's understanding. That said, if you want to get more complicated, why not?

Why, oh why is Apari being presented to a separate R-Map? This is what I'd do. Figure out a reason to say he's arrived at the Pike, and then figure out a set of "grabby" notes for the NPCs in terms of his character. Yes he's an elf - contrive reasons that they all want something from him, too.

This has two effects: one, the characters will end up in scenes together, and get to interact. Two, the actions of each player character will cause a synthesis of action that will reflect onto the other PCs. Basically it's like adding another NPC to the R-Map, but one that really shakes things up.

OK, one more sorta technique note, more just personal advice, really. You said that you weren't sure how you'd do all of the prep justice. You won't. Time to get over that now. Some of what you have will just not make it to play at all. And that's OK. It's the nature of this style of play that some of what you want to throw out there will just be out of date before you can present it. Compare this with the old form of prep, however, where you either had to railroad people to the "encounters" or loose all the prep that this entailed. Overall, you'll find that more of your prep here will be pertinent, or at least what comes into play does so without the GM having to "force" it to happen in terms of player responses.

Anyhow, you'll get used to it.

Mike

Mike Holmes wrote: There's nothing really complicated about these techniques. Would you agree? I mean, it's just a matter of knowing them generally and using them.

We've gone through an extensive treatment of your play, but, if anything, I've overdone it to illustrate.

In fact, now I'm learning from you. I'm going to use the NPC enumeration that you used back there from now on. Really good idea that.

I'm not sure where you want to go with the whole "otherworld" thing here. Scott's original conversion said that there was only "the Shadow" as an otherworld, and that all other worship was misapplied.

Why, oh why is Apari being presented to a separate R-Map?

You said that you weren't sure how you'd do all of the prep justice. You won't.

Too late to edit. Here's an example. I'm able to see stomping potential afterwards, you see. Katrin defying Roland over the orc would have been an opportunity and I regret not using it. In the actual situation in the scene, I was psychologically unable. Or something.

Just to comment on a couple of the topics you raised.

From what you said, going to the veil = a heroquest. Even in Glorantha most quests are done to re-play the deeds of heroes of more historical perspective (although they were often repeating the deeds of demi-gods or gods). The "hero plane" where most heroquests take place is basically trapped history, which in many ways sounds muck like the slivers caught in the veil.

The key points of a heroquest is that you are leaving the here and now and going into an eternal past, that without some sort of story to guide you, you don't know where you will end up, and that you can gain power, in various forms, for doing so. It sounds like the first two are definately the case with the veil fragments. I don't know about the third aspect, bringing back new power, and how that matches your view of the veil.

As for stomping, I'm not an expert but I have a few scattered comments:

Stomping her in the conflict over the Orc was not, I think, the right thing to do, because she was spending hero points to win (two of them I think, even?). The use of hero points says "I want to win this one!" So I'd say you played that one right.

As a player I think stomping is most satisfying under one or more of three conditions: it is a result of what my character did earlier, it is an example of a force that is too tough for me currently in my area of strength, or it is uses my weaknesses.

The first would most obviously be an action flowing out of the orc thing--although she won that one clearly so it could not be the "same" argument. But if wanted to put down this threat to his authority he could pick an argument about a different thing, when he was ready for it, had community support, etc. But something flowing out of her interaction with his son could also be interesting, less obvious but able to move the story in new directions.

The second would work well with a follow-on from the Orc situation perhaps. That when he is ready, it doesn't matter how impassioned she is and how much she cares, in this place he'll prevail. That gives her motivation to find new abilities and allies, or else a reason to question her commitment.

The third makes me think of the issue of her lover. She's given you an openning there, pretty much said "make this hard on me!" with the set up. So clobber her with it.

Looking through the set-up, one idea would be to maybe follow through on one of the bangs to show if she supports the snow elves. If she comes across all noble again, Veddia knows she has to be crushed, and helps Roland (multiple attacker penalties!), possibly dredging up her history, involvement with Tam, etc, while Roland goes on about "you dare try to tell me what to do in my own hall!" Between them they should be able to take her down (although she might be able to take one of them to defeat, depending on how she handles it).

Immediate consequence is being sent out of the hall, while the "damage" being reduced ability to influence Roland. Thematically this would emphasize the divisions between the non-shadow folk, and show that while she has great intentions she has over-reached herself as she does not yet have the experience, allies, and ability to bring unity. Story-wise it gives all sorts of possible what is next things, with good odds that the player will help to drive that part.

But that is just one possible suggestion of how you could do it, from the sort of thing that I'd enjoy as a player. You know her vastly better than I ever could from reading the forums, and you know where you want to take the game, so you should be able to see many other enjoyable ways to stomp her :-)

-Bryan

StalkingBlue wrote: And btw It wasn't mention of one technique that makes me think I'd like your game. It's many things, not only the advice you give here but the way to talk to people, the way your players and you talk about little things in your game, stuff like that.

Wonderful that I can give something back, even if it's a tiny thing. You do realise that I was simply organising the NPC questions you suggested in a list.

I haven't a clear answer for the metaphysics question yet, not one that's easy to relate to the Gloranthan model anyway.

So if there's any kind of Shadow otherworld in my game, it's going to be in the Mirrors.

There's also the inaccessible gods' otherworld, however this isn't too relevant to our game.

We called PCs crossing over into those other-time-places "going into the Veil".

Now obviously I could say that the Veil also contains slivers of various otherworlds seeping through from the far side or cut off and trapped in the Veil barrier.

The amount of learning involved for the three of us seems a bit offputting to me, that's why I've been edging around the question.

One, just to be clear Apari might well end up on the Katrin's R-map very soon, if that is what the player wants.

Two, I feel I want to give the player some choices here. All the time while we were playing DnD, players had to compromise heavily on character development so the "party" could stay together.

Three, I've created the R-map heavily around Katrin and around Lucy's preferences.

For Apari's player, it's got to be clear-cut lines and action or he'll get frustrated. Subtle stuff is not for him.

I’m leaning towards suggesting that this would take too much time.

Hm. I may actually suggest a snow elves mission to the player. (Have to negotiate that pre-play so he's happy. He's still terrified of having a GM framing his PC into a scene, but when I give him a chance to think about it beforehand and check back with me that he's not losing out on some other things he "wanted to do first", he'll be fine.)

What I find a bit intimidating is that I have all these fine ideas for bangs, scenes, buildups and complications, but when I'm in the middle of running the game I find it hard to stay collected enough to remember them. This simpy takes practice I guess, and learning how to organise my notes in a way that will help me access the information.

So - I want to do it, yet I go away and do nothing. Coward.

Wow, much to think about. I'll reply in more detail later on heroquests, stompings and otherworlds. First, however, regarding this:

Mike Holmes wrote: Uh, just for an example, we'll use the big GM club, and say that Apari is captured by Roland's men.

Again, there are ways to deal with a player like this. As I mentioned, put the metagame out in the open for the player (like you've been doing a lot with Lucy). Ask him how his character is getting where you've got the action set, and tell him that this is where you have material prepared. And that once he gets the character there that you're not going to force results. Just that you want the PCs to have the opportunity to interact.

Basically co-opt him as a force for these metagame effects. Once he's a partner, then he can't be fearful.

There is another possibility here, however; he might be a hardcore simulationist. In that case, his dissapointment is that the metagame is showing. In which case, trying to get him in on it is the worst thing you can do.

So do it anyway. You have to find out where his issues lie. If it's actually just trust, then metagame in the open will solve that. If it's actually a sim issue, then at least you know you have a some player incompatibility to overcome. In that latter case...well, let's burn that bridge when we get to it. :-)

There's also just talking about it. Without jargon, just go through some sample situations, and ask what he'd like to have the GM do in those cases.

Mike

Bryan_T wrote: From what you said, going to the veil = a heroquest.

The key points of a heroquest is that you are leaving the here and now and going into an eternal past, that without some sort of story to guide you, you don't know where you will end up, and that you can gain power, in various forms, for doing so.

Stomping her in the conflict over the Orc was not, I think, the right thing to do, because she was spending hero points to win (two of them I think, even?). The use of hero points says "I want to win this one!" So I'd say you played that one right.

The third makes me think of the issue of her lover. She's given you an openning there, pretty much said "make this hard on me!" with the set up. So clobber her with it.

Immediate consequence is being sent out of the hall, while the "damage" being reduced ability to influence Roland. Thematically this would emphasize the divisions between the non-shadow folk, and show that while she has great intentions she has over-reached herself as she does not yet have the experience, allies, and ability to bring unity. Story-wise it gives all sorts of possible what is next things, with good odds that the player will help to drive that part.

Oops.

The orc was the first contest, and it worked great. So I think you did it just fine. If the contest is not designed specifically for a stomping, or just to be there to make the character look good, then actually your main guide in setting resistance should be plausibility. Make the characters have the ability level that seems most likely for who they are. This might seem odd coming from me, but I think this is actually the best way in HQ to create drama, interestingly, given that win and loss are both equally interesting in most every case.

This does bring something up, however. The stomping should probably not be an extended contest. This is because extended contests give the player hope. Let me explain.

In an extended contest against a superior foe, you can end up bumping every round just trying to stay in the contest. I've seen this happen. A player will spend four, five or even more HP, just hoping for a really good die roll to come up and turn the tables. But they often don't come. Meaning that the player will have burnt a big pile of HP on what ends up as a failure. Which is often pretty dissapointing.

So just do it as a simple contest. In the end the player will be looking at a Major failure that they can bump to a minor or something, of which it's possible to make an objective choice at that point one way or another. With the extended contest after the first round it's Transfer x2 or bump to lose x1, which the player will be very temted to take, despite the fact that they're on a slippery slope to a loss.

Just my experience on this.

Generally extended contests can suck a lot of HP out of players. Even against an even foe, a series of bad rolls and a determined player can mean that getting the win costs a pile of HP. So always keep this in mind when you're considering doing an extended contest.


BTW, up at the top, I mentioned something that I don't think you've put in your game, either. Stomping is the reverse method of making a character a protagonist from the usual method, which is allowing them to kick ass. This sort of conflict should be thrown in regularly. Create an event (not a bang neccessarily, either) where the character is going to end up in a contest that highlights their best abilities. Make the resistance about even to theirs, or a tad lower - or make it 14, the universal default, if it's just some "standard" task (or even lower in some cases). The player might still lose, but with HP, it's usually at least their decision whether or not to do so, if not just an outright win.

Make the character look good, then make them lose to impossible odds, then make them look good again. It's this back and forth that keeps the character seeming coolest. Again, prepare these like any other event, or force yourself to find ones to do in play - it's a very important part of making the character a protagonist. Stomping is just for contrast, and to establish scale - you might be somewhat cool, but you're not the coolest in the world. Yet.

Mike

Mike Holmes wrote: My point was merely that you know enough of this stuff that I'd probably have as much fun in your game as you might in mine.

The problem with this is that if I reference an NPC that doesn't have a bang associated with them, they might be duds for the moment. In a way I think you've almost overdone it - the idea of a relationship map is not to give every character a reason to grab the PCs.

All that's really neccessary is to come up with a cosmology that you want to work with. Then you can kinda pick and choose how magic works based on that.

We called PCs crossing over into those other-time-places "going into the Veil".

Sounds to me like this is definitely otherworld itself. Possibly part of the Shadow Otherworld from what you've said, but possibly an otherworld of it's own. Which way do you see it?

So all you have to do is to ensure that the R-Map is grabby for the other player, too, and prepare bangs relevant to the character in question.

For Apari's player, it's got to be clear-cut lines and action or he'll get frustrated. Subtle stuff is not for him.

Fine. Uh, just for an example, we'll use the big GM club, and say that Apari is captured by Roland's men. In fact, consider eliminating Nollorn, and simply inserting Apari where you had Nollorn before. Or have them get captured together.

Uh, he evaded Roland's men for days, and then finally he had the bad luck to run into a pack of orcs who drove him into the hands of Roland's men - but not before he'd slain a dozen of the orcs.

Second, make the narration about the events leading up short, and end in your first bang. If the player sees that you're simply setting up an opportunity for him to make a fun decision, then he'll have no problem with it.

This is no different than the stomping thing. No it's not "fair." Players don't want fair, they want to interact with the game in a way that makes their characters cool. Sometimes unfair is the best way to do that.

I’m leaning towards suggesting that this would take too much time.

Why, oh why?

And what's this regarding Katrin? An undead ex-lover? As Westly would say, "Why didn't you list this amongst our resources?!" As soon as things with Tam look like they're going well again... have the dead ex-lover show up.

Katrin does have a relationship to this guy, right?

So - I want to do it, yet I go away and do nothing. Coward.

You've moved to an entirely new method of play for your RPGs, you can't be a coward. You're just still getting used to it.

Plan a stomp, or some really presurizing bang or whatever, and make it your opener for the night. Just plan it right now, and have that be how you start the next session. How's about, Roland asks for Katrin to be his new general, but there's a man currently in that position.

Make sure that with augments that he's two masteries or so above Katrin (is this possible to do and keep plausible? How good is Katrin with a sword?).

Roland will still support her despite her apparent cowardice (but he'll likely be angry about it, or demand something more from her).

If she fights and wins, cool, then she's the best in the land as far as anyone knows. If she looses, more likely, then the captain demands his position be restored to him, and Roland asks her if she wants to step down. If she doesn't, then she has to deal with the men she's supposed to lead not respecting her.

Also, just generally make him a boor, perhaps chauvanistic, and otherwise generally dislikable. So she can really, really hate him. Then, later when she faces him again and wins it'll be really fun.

That's one thing you really need to have in this map that's not there right now, some petty villains. Somebody who's not grey, but who the player can really love to hate.

So, right now, I see political power as a key motive for Katarin, and her love for Tam.

It's too easy, and not as fun, really, to just have some villain kill of Tam. And then we can't bring him back, because two undead boyfriends would be really overdoing it.

So what would make her lose Tam? How about instead of losing face in the fight against the general, he does some dishonest move, which leaves her with all of her political power, but gives her a nasty scar instead? Tam tries to make like it doesn't matter to him (he has to stay worthy of her), but she can see in his eyes, that the scar really bothers him. Uh, I dunno, he witnessed a scarring like that as a child, and it gives him fits or something. He can't bring himself to kiss her. That should chill things for a while, and really make Katrin hate the villain.

Generally speaking, always try to give penalties to characters that give them something new to do. Then you can create bangs out of finding the solution to the problem.

Mike Holmes wrote: The orc was the first contest, and it worked great. So I think you did it just fine. If the contest is not designed specifically for a stomping, or just to be there to make the character look good, then actually your main guide in setting resistance should be plausibility. Make the characters have the ability level that seems most likely for who they are. This might seem odd coming from me, but I think this is actually the best way in HQ to create drama, interestingly, given that win and loss are both equally interesting in most every case.

In an extended contest against a superior foe, you can end up bumping every round just trying to stay in the contest. I've seen this happen.

Generally extended contests can suck a lot of HP out of players. Even against an even foe, a series of bad rolls and a determined player can mean that getting the win costs a pile of HP. So always keep this in mind when you're considering doing an extended contest.

Stomping is the reverse method of making a character a protagonist from the usual method, which is allowing them to kick ass.

Make the resistance about even to theirs, or a tad lower [....]

StalkingBlue wrote: Although that said, I do like to leave my prep as open-ended as possible. No matter how much I prep, I develop in play and NPCs will change on the spot when it feels right in a scene. So orienting major NPCs towards the PCs in prep can help me drop one "grabber" in favour of another if that's what fits best in the session.

The dead go nowhere. That's right. The Veil is keeping them. They linger. That's why the world suffers from so many Fell and angry ghosts.

Legates choose Izradian magic from the Nine Books of Shadow. The "books" are basically affinities and the feats in them are fairly powerful, but Legates can't improvise.

Other magic can come in either of two forms: Common magic, which people can just pick up from what's floating around in the land and/or in their family, no religious implications.

Or "channeler's books", which again are affinities that have less powerful feats than Izradian books but allow for improvisation and development. You learn these books from a mentor, either a channeler or an otherworldly being. What with being taught, developed further, misremembered, lost, pieced together from half-lost fragments etc., no two channeler books are exactly alike.

Oh, and the magic trapped in the physical world is also trying to escape and go home but can't, so it adds its own properties to the soul smog and all this mixed toegther starts to grow into slivers of otherworld.

Ok, every single case where I've managed to "grab" this player in the past was about elves. He really goes for that. That, and straightforward, preferably suicidally heroic action.

This would be a fantastic place to start the character off. Especially if I also give him an accreditation letter, to represent the wood elves who are considering extending their magical protection to the Pike if Apari reports back that these humans can still be trusted.

Perfect place to tie him into the event of Nollorn getting caught. I have an orc ambush planned around that already.

I have a number of things that'll surprise him I think. One is that I'll let him have his magic daggers. Apparently they have this ability of being really, really unobtrusive when they really can't afford to be seen.

Even better is the reason Arrenu stayed in that hiding place with a hundred or so undead guards: it's an ancient magical effect that keeps Fell from hungering for human flesh and going insane. We've established that in play already. So if Arrrenu leaves that place, he's going for a really really important reason. And he probably carries some nifty protection, perhaps given to him by Jahzir ... which of course won't keep working forever. Oh, the possibilities!

She has "Loves Tam 3w." And "Inspired by Arrenu 3w." Same ratings. Neat, eh?

I have someone who's already applied for the position: Olec of Eirinn. He'll be really eager to show Katrin her place, and yeah, I can make him a nasty little chauvinist, no problem with that. He's had to play second fiddle to two women (the Ladies of Norfell) all his life, and now he's kicking free and getting to deal with Roland, who does he find? Another bloody woman possibly outranking him!

7w2, in a fight with just standard augments (like Big, Strong).
So he'd need to start in the four-masteries range before augments?

That would work fine. He's a middle-aged, tough pirate type, plus he hasn't appeared in play yet, so I can easily introduce him as "the most feared blade in the Western Pellurian". Katrin would have heard of him because she grew up on the south shore of the Pellurian Sea.

Just have to think of a neat Dornish challenging tradition so it won't look like an uncontrolled brawl, but I'll find something.

Roland will still support her despite her apparent cowardice (but he'll likely be angry about it, or demand something more from her).

Nah. He'll be enchanted. He'll offer her protection. He'll even offer to marry her to secure her status and keep her safe. ;)

If she doesn't, then she has to deal with the men she's supposed to lead not respecting her.

Huh, that last sentence scared me again briefly. No worries though, I'll get used to it yet. I can sense how cool this kind of thing is and I want to do it.

He hates elves, too.

Ok. I was leaving too many things open for development in play, that's true. I tend to do that. Reifels was my candidate for small-minded and nasty before, but he wouldn't play that way. I can do boorish racism and sexism though. Easier to do for me than more subtle stuff.

And add to that the two captured elven friends and the father-and-son pair of admirers... it'd be a scenario that comes in pairs!

He can't bring himself to kiss her. That should chill things for a while, and really make Katrin hate the villain.

Oh, very nasty.

I think Roland, in his own hall, surrounded by his followers, with his passionate, long-boiled hatred of the orc and his big lonely ego deserved a higher resistance than the low three-masteries range.

This session didn't have enough time in it, but easy stuff should be coming up again. Thing is, with the easy stuff I tend to make it automatic (it's just such a relief to be getting beyond DnD bog-down fights and sundry other die rolls), but perhaps I should make those situations contests more often to give the easy stuff more emphasis in player eyes.

Mike Holmes wrote:

Legates choose Izradian magic from the Nine Books of Shadow. The "books" are basically affinities and the feats in them are fairly powerful, but Legates can't improvise.

So they get magic from the Shadow otherworld, right? You haven't answered my question on that: there is a Shadow otherworld, right? Where the Astiraxes are from and such? And this is where the bad guys get their power.

Here's a more important question, apparently there are all sorts of spirits in the Shadow world, or so Scott implies. Can people be shamans as he implies? That is are there animist traditions that draw on the powers of the spirits of the Shadow otherworld? Or are you just chucking that for your game?

Well...in Glorantha, common magic comes ultimately from the otherworld beings that reside in the mundane world. There are religious implications, just not strong ones. That is, one can get the magic without even knowing much about the religion where it comes from. But that doesn't mean that there aren't such religions. You could choose to ignore this for your game, but consider keeping them.

I mean, do you have dryads, nymphs, and such in the game?

These are simply nature spirits that inhabit the mundane world. If people get magic from them, then cool, no? This would be charms. You also have said you have "angels" and yes, these are daimones, from which you get common magic feats. If you want something even less sentient and more "just magic" there are essences, which are unintelligent, from which you get common magic spells.

And, yes, there are basic magics that come directly from the mundane world alone, these are called talents. So why not keep the full array?

Or "channeler's books"...

Sounds like theism, but where does the power come from? That is, channeling usually refers to bringing the power in from a diety or somesuch. But there are no other dieties, right? So what do these books represent? Are they, perhaps, tapping into some sort of leftover resonance of the gods? If, in fact, it's just a matter of daimones living in the mundane world, then you've just described common magic feats again.

I have a number of things that'll surprise him I think. One is that I'll let him have his magic daggers. Apparently they have this ability of being really, really unobtrusive when they really can't afford to be seen.

Cool. Why wouldn't you let a character have such a thing? Make sure he understands the "pompous naming rule" however. That is, the daggers have to have a rating like anything else, and only work so well depending on that rating. (You're not contemplating "this just does X" sort of abilities? It's just a bad idea.)

Just so I'm clear, he stays there to stay sane, right? What are the guards about? They keep him in if he goes a little nuts? Or are they protecting him? I'm not clear on what this is about.

No, he needs to end in the four masteries range. That is, if you expect Katrin to come in with a 15W2 total, he should end up with a 15W4 or so after augments. Even as low as 5W4 or so works. The former gives her a 4.75% chance to win, and the latter a 7.25% chance. So you see that it's not all that important where in the range he's at (the victory levels shift around some, but that's not all that important).

I'm assuming you use standard equipment bonuses?

Not "the most feared." If you say that, then you can't introduce anyone better.

Just have to think of a neat Dornish challenging tradition so it won't look like an uncontrolled brawl, but I'll find something.

Uncontrolled brawl works, too... :-)

Men as in troops. Gender is not particularly relevant here.

So, which do you prefer? Political power drain, or drain of Tam's love? Or both? Call it a humiliating scar.

In any case, get the guardian into some scene soon, to establish it bieng there. Part of asking Katrin to be a general will entail her paying to join the hero band. That spikes things nicely. :-)

I take back all the stuff I said about magic. Midnight is predicated on the Middle Earth paradigm, and, interestingly, that's very, very non-magical in many ways. More importantly, magic signifies belief in HQ, and the only belief characters have in Middle Earth, and apparently in Midnight, is in their homes and in their people. You've actually stuck to that very well, the only substantial magic item the good guys have that you've mentioned so far being a crown (heck, we're not even sure that's magic), and that's just a symbol of the homeland again.

I am still curious - do the people of Midnight have any sort of belief system at all? I mean, without the flashy effects of the magic in RPGs we have religions and beliefs. What's happened to those in this world? Or is it just not discussed?

I don't think of it as an otherworld, at least not a complete one and certainly not one that people could travel to. Izradian magic comes from the Mirrors, which take their magical leech-and-dispense qualities from Izrador's own body/blood (which is lying rotting somewhere near the north pole in the physical world).

Astiraxes - hm. Not sure, I don't have a clear imagethey could be some kind of spinoff of Mirrors, or they could be created by feeding godsflesh to animals that are then killed in a nasty ritual, "harvesting" the animal's soul to become an incorporeal demon.

I don't remember reading about a Shadow otherworld in Scott's conversion, but if there was one then he created it.

All "spirits" in the Midnight books are present in the physical world.

Only a few "spirits" are described in any detail, and at least some of those sound much more like daimones to me.

And I don't currently see the benefit of including animism in my game to be honest. I don't really want to rule it out for the future, but neither of my two players is very interested in how magic works.

I think I'll just leave it at my two theism-like variations for channeler/Izradian magic.

Maybe I'm overlooking something important here though. I haven't seen any magic other than theism in play (in Ian's game), and just from reading the rules I can begin to understand how the mechanics work, but I don't get enthusiastic about them.

Although that said, I suspect I have more material than I need for this game, so I'll deal with that as and when it becomes relevant.

I mean, do you have dryads, nymphs, and such in the game?

I haven't used any. They could exist, sure, but I'm keeping the number of "weird" creatures low for colour reasons. I think the "angel" may have been the first one, encountered after, what? eight months? of play.

Why do I have to have three different types of creatures that give me magic abilities with different names? What am I overlooking here?

In Glorantha it makes sense because it ties in with the the three magic systems. But if I'm using only one streamlined system?

I'd give him that kind of thing immediately if he asked. Unfortunately he's mourning fireballs, invisibility and teleport spells too much to get into the spirit and come up with stuff on his own.

Now Arrenu was lucky and came to a place where a bunch of royal guards have been un-living since the Last Battle 99 years ago. Apparently they swore some gruesome oath to defend their city even after death. As long as they don't leave that place, nothing goes too wrong. Newcomers can swear an oath and join them, which is what Arrenu did. He replaced their captain.

I'm assuming you use standard equipment bonuses?

No, we stopped using bonuses after our playtest session.

Not "the most feared." If you say that, then you can't introduce anyone better.

Wait. Is "the most feared" equal to "the best"? What I thought it should convey was "the nastiest" - the dirtiest fighter perhaps, or the most ruthless once he wins, or the most unpredictably provocable. And the Western Pellurian is a big region, but it doesn't cover everywhere.
But ok, I'll consider dropping him a notch.

Men as in troops. Gender is not particularly relevant here.

No no, I got that, I wasn't thinking gender. It's only that at times, I suddenly feel scared and guilty planning nasty consequences for PCs. For no good reason at all, but it happens - and that was one such moment.

So, which do you prefer? Political power drain, or drain of Tam's love? Or both? Call it a humiliating scar.

Ok, I have to practice this. So, uh, both.

Oh wow. Oh yes. I'm planning to have Katrin come to talk to Roland just as Olec swears his oath to him. Good moment to introduce the guardian, and make it look appealing. (We'll also be talking about the guardian for the possible Katrin-Apari hero band tomorrow, so that fits in nicely on another level as well.)

Mike Holmes wrote: I take back all the stuff I said about magic.

Midnight is predicated on the Middle Earth paradigm, and, interestingly, that's very, very non-magical in many ways. More importantly, magic signifies belief in HQ, and the only belief characters have in Middle Earth, and apparently in Midnight, is in their homes and in their people.

I am still curious - do the people of Midnight have any sort of belief system at all? I mean, without the flashy effects of the magic in RPGs we have religions and beliefs. What's happened to those in this world? Or is it just not discussed?

I mean, Izrador's blood doesn't actually flow all over the planet physically, right? So it gets to the mirrors by...some other place, right? In fact, mirrors are classic portals to otherworlds. Also, don't the dead go there at least part of the time?

Not saying you have to do any of this, just that often when you do this sort of exercise, you find ways of doing things in interesting mechanical ways that explain some of your game world better than you thought it could be explained.

Astiraxes …

Are these from the Midnight text, or not? Did Scott make them up perhaps? I was imagining with how he mentioned them that they would be something well written up in the canon.

So there's nothing canon called "Shadow" or "the Shadow" or anything? Hmm. Could just be Scott doing the logic I did above and extrapolating the shadow otherworld from the description of how Izrador works.

All "spirits" in the Midnight books are present in the physical world.But you're correct that the term spirit doesn't neccessarily imply anything in particular here, either. The real question is how they interact with folks, and what their "belief" system is about.

Well, part of Hero Quest is the idea that characters change in their beliefs sometimes, and that sometimes leads to new magic. They might be more interested if they saw better how it works. But, again, given the Middle Earthiness of the game, It's probably not a huge deal to have all of these options.

Part of it is about who you have to know to get magic. If you treat it as just something you ger from...nowhere I guess...then it's not well linked into the setting. The HQ magic systems tell you something about the magic you're using, gives it context.

I thought that perhaps we could find some of the bangier stuff from how magic works to leverage in with the other stuff. The more you play, the less you can go back and say that the magic was part of somthing larger all along, and it just never got noticed in any way.

I was asking more about from the canon. Does Midnight have these beings? If so, they strongly imply animism exists (or, rather, that either it does or that they're being defined in a less interesting way than they could be). Which has other ramifications if it's true.

In Hero Quest these things have mechanical importance. For example, charms are "always on" and provide their augments whether or not you have time to use the magic. With a spell, you need to have an object (talisman) to cast it with, and some time. Feats just need time. Then there's concentrating on one of the sorts. Etc.

You can just ignore all of that, but I, at least, think it's interesting stuff. In any case, I don't think you "need" any of it, just that I wonder if the setting implies any of this fun stuff.

Unfortunately he's mourning fireballs, invisibility and teleport spells too much to get into the spirit and come up with stuff on his own.

Are those things canonical to Midnight? Those kinds of spells, that is? Who uses them, if so? Why would you get rid of them? Or are they somehow antithetical to Midnight canon?

So, if he leaves he gets hungry. But he can control it, in theory? Cool. So be breaks his oath for her, and then she's got to worry about having a friend that everyone thinks needs to be killed. Very nice.

How does one kill a Fell? Just hack them to bits?

I'm assuming that you roll everything out in the open, right? Very important. When this happens, let her in on the ability she's up against, and then let her calculate what happens with the rolls by looking at the dice. When she gets that Complete Defeat, and then decides not to bump it up, she'll look up at you with that, "So what badness befalls my character" look.

StalkingBlue wrote: Yet there are “Religion” sections in the book. It looks almost as if the designers wanted to create a completely bleak and hopeless world, but couldn’t quite manage to bring their cultures to life without giving them spiritual traditions.

Dorns believe that their departed ancestors “have power over the affairs of the living” and demand honourable behaviour from them (MN 143). Despite the ghost problems Dorns still cremate their dead in rings of standing stones – dangerous, haunted places these days, where you don’t want to go after nightfall or even linger too long over a funeral.

The southern humans, Sarcosans, still believe in the Riding Host, a vast pantheon believed to be the stars. They believe that after death a Sarcosan will be judged either worthy or unworthy to join the Riding Host, depending on their deeds in life. As I read the text, the Riding Host never promised or granted benefits in life, so its being cut off from the world doesn’t make a noticeable difference.

Sarcosans also make for the most numerous and most powerful following of Izrador. Both human Night Kings and apparently most puppet lords, even in Dornish lands, are Sarcosans. Strange again. They are the people with the strongest religious affiliation and yet the people who succumbed to the Shadow most easily?

Gnomes and many human riverfolk “pay religious homage” to a vast entity, “the Watcher of the River” (MN 177). Halflings make offerings to local nature spirits (MN 171).

The elves worship “both named and anonymous spirits” (MN 115).

Besides, there is a temple to the Lost Gods hidden away in Erethor, where old traditions are kept;

and more recently there is the “Cult of the Witch” – elves who believe the High Queen Aradiel to be one of the Lost Gods.

Dwarves believe the Lost Gods are lost for good and irrelevant.

Some, but not all, dwarves believe in mountain spirits. Father Sun and Mother Moon figure prominently in Dwarven mythology.

Fine by me – as long as I can keep it simple. Interesting mechanics and explanations are great as long as I can bring them across without too much rules baggage.

Astiraxes are part of canon, fully statted D&D monsters and all. They were created by Izrador a century or so ago, to track down and kill spellcasters. They are “naturally invisible and incorporeal spirits” classified as “Magical Beasts” (MN 229), which fight by possessing animals. How or from what they are created isn’t described.

All "spirits" in the Midnight books are present in the physical world.But you're correct that the term spirit doesn't neccessarily imply anything in particular here, either. The real question is how they interact with folks, and what their "belief" system is about.

Ah right, now I’m getting a clearer idea of why this kind of thinking wasn’t getting me anywhere. The text bits on religion don’t really talk about spirits, lost gods, ancestors or stars interacting with people. What they describe is people’s beliefs and rituals, but not actual interaction.

Actually I suspect that it might detract from the focus of the game as it has developed. It’s been very much about taking personal strength from things in the world – your home, your family, your honour, your ancestors, your bond to someone you’ve fought side by side with.

I’d much prefer religion and magic to remain subtle and non-intrusive for the most part, to be honest. Again it’s more of a hunch than something I can explain very well, it feels as if varied mechanics for religions would be baggage in this case.

In Midnight you get only arcane magic, which in D&D comes from either studying very hard...

or from having some unexplained innate gift

Midnight has no magic communities.

Midnight as written also doesn't really have entities that grant magic, although some bits of description of spirits may be hints of this - for instance gnomes believe that their boats sail more safely when they make offerings to the Watcher of the River.

I'm thinking magic could actually be granted by “spirits” without people necessarily knowing about it. You believe you’ve learnt that “Rally the Clan" from your grandmother or "Swamp" magic from your mentor channeler, while in reality the gestures and words you use for them mimic an old, forgotten ritual of worship.

We have had magic in the game before (like every D&D game it was dominated by magic), but magic never had any religious connotation. So if it starts having one now, I’d like it to be subtle and possible to be overlooked unless you look closely.

Technically speaking Midnight can have all the monsters that are in the D&D Monster Manual. That includes dryads, nymphs, elementals, devils, demons and angels, giants, as well as all the D&D-specific monsters that have no root in mythology. And yes, that’s defining them in a not-very-interesting way, that is inherent in D&D.

Of the Midnight spirits-specific spirits, some classify as Outsiders (incorporeal beings from other planes) and others as Fey (native corporeal or incorporeal spirits).

And if you're looking for daimones of other gods than Izrador, they can be present, too. According to canon many "outsiders" (otherworldly beings) were trapped on Aryth at the Sundering.

I think you can make arguments for each of the three otherworlds to have some relevance in Midnight if you choose to.

Perhaps D&D has made me more wary of system intrusion than I need to be, but perhaps I have a valid point here.

My pet peeve about Midnight. The setting so shouldn’t have been written for D&D. Oh well, it’s a good enough decision commercially. But it really doesn't do anything for the feel. I haven't seen any magic in the HQ book that I’d have a problem with for Midnight, but D&D spells (again, this mindless wargaming collection) just don’t work for me here.

Mass-destruction spells like fireballs (channeler) or flame strikes (legate) in everyone's hands are the wrong kind of magic if I want any sort of a Tolkien feel.

Besides when I’m playing Midnight in D&D, I run into big-time balance problems with those spells. To resist fireballs or flame strikes, I need divine magic (unavailable to PCs) and lots of magic items (unavailable to most everyone).

Invisibility was and still is available in my game, but I’m using the “difficult magic” rule in HQ. This made the player decide he didn’t want the spell anymore (nor in fact any HQ magic) because it was no longer automatic.

How does one kill a Fell? Just hack them to bits?

Unfortunately, yes. Although perhaps this one could be special.

It sounds as if magic is rare but a big deal when it happens. In glorantha and hence vanilla HQ magic is ubiquitous. You have a lot of choices for how to model this difference. Your choices are all about how often magic crops up, whether there is any 'little' magic and the flavour you want to impart to it.


First off: you dont have to use all or any of the types of magic in HQ. The system will not break if you take any one of them or all of them out. Not only will it not break it wont be any the worse for it. They are in there because Glorantha needs them not because the rules do.


Second: magic is not religion. Mike is spot on in saying that the 'good' guys must have strong beliefs or they would have folded. Your quotes mention those beliefs explicitly. There is nothing wrong with having religion keywords that dont have magic abilities; they would still have abilities for beliefs, relationships, lore, etc. They would still have a list of optional traits.

In HQ it does not really matter much what categorising label you choose to put on an ability, so such things as beliefs, relationships, lore, etc are all very useable in play. And in fact they are more interesting than 'spells'. For example augmenting against the desire to flee from wraiths by reciting the names of your fathers (ie using Revere Ancestors) and reminding each other that wraiths can destroy the body but not the soul (ie using What Our Ancestors Taught Us) reveal more about the setting and the characters than we would get if they cast 'Bravery' or something.


Third: If you want to model magic as being something only supernatural beings and artifacts can do (ie not PCs) there is another option. You can make the things that can do it npcs and use the rules for followers, allies, etc.

If by definition they are all greater powers than the pcs then dont allow them as followers (npcs that do what the players want most of the time). This way the PCs can use their relationships as abilities to draw these powers attention to the mortal world and convince them to act.

Items like magic swords or other kit can be handled as followers or allies depending on how powerful and how much autonomy you think they should have. If its like LotR then followers would probably be right as they dont get personalities and dont tend to rebel. There is however a gap in the rules in that there is no explanation of how to make a known npc with known abilities into a follower, this issue does not exist with allies for whom this is expected. Hardly a big issue though.


Fourth: its not necessary to establish how or if the 'good' guy's magic works in order to use it in the game. You can make magic simply a set of prayers that never have any observable physical manifestations. It then remains unclear if there is an outside agency subtley at work or if its simply the psycology of belief.

If you do this you can choose to use the theistic structure of vague Affinities and more specific Feats if you want organised areas of power for the being(s) being prayed to. Or just as reasonably you can describe how they are beleived to interact with the world and have all interaction come off whatever abilities seem relevant in the circumstances.


Lastly: you might also take a look at the heroforming rules that allow powerful entities to inhabit a vessel for a time. There may be stuff related to that that is useful for making magic rare but powerful.


As far as Otherworlds go... If its LotR-like then they are unreachable and uncontactable right? So forget about them. No explanation is needed.


Cheers

I think Nick's saying some of the things that I'm trying to say, better than I did. I do have a slight disagreement, however.

"Bravery" as a spell is, indeed not all that interesting unless you know where it comes from. That is, if it is indeed from an ancestor animism religion, then we know that Bravery is calling on the bravery of your ancestors, and it does have meaning. Much like the examples that you gave, Nick.

That said, common magic is what I think we're looking at here, and it's considered so...small?...that you're not required in HQ to have any relationships to represent how you got it or anything.

Here's what I'd consider a good rule of thumb. If the magic is just something that everyone in the community might have, it's just a part of being a member of that community, and the community relationships apply. If, however, the magic is more unique than that, then I definitely recommend expanding into more full-blown descriptions of where it comes from. For example, if you're converting a D&D wizard with lots of spells, then I'd definitely define it using the wizardry rules and all that it entails.

As far as the common magic divides, you can probably leave these undefined. That said, for very few rules, I think it's pretty fun stuff. Very basically here are the advantages and disadvantages of each type:

Charms: Always on (no time to cast), charms can be stolen or damaged, spirits sometimes balk
Spells: Never balk, have to take time to cast, talisman can be stolen or damaged.
Feats: Don't need anything to cast, takes time to perform.

These are basically all things to make contests from or given context to magic to make using magic more interesting. For example, ambushed suddenly? Then there'll be a limit on how many spells and feats you can use to augment (or you'll have to take unrelated actions in an extended contest), but not for charms. If you've got a lot of time, you can use as many feats and spells as you like to augment. Have somebody steal a talisman to give the character a goal. Have a charm refuse to do something antithetical to it's nature (a Protect Nature charm being used to protect an animal that's been destroying the local wildlife). Etc, etc.


Basically I think little stuff like this is worth learning for the fun that the color provides. I guess I've been playing with it for so long now that I personally would be loathe not to use this stuff in any world with magic that it could represent. Basically I'm done with magic being generic, and now require that it have some sort of actual in-game rationale behind it now.

Mike

Mike, Nick:

I reposted much of our current religious discussion in this thread to enable Lucy to drop by if she's interested. I'd be grateful if you could post any religious stuff in that new thread, thanks. I'll keep this one for specific future game prep.

Play is moving beyond the Redgard map, so I think it's time to start a new thread. This will allow Lucy to eventually start reading this one without stumbling on too much stuff she wouldn't want to see before it enters play.