I'm willing to step up to the plate and find us some -good- permanent booth furniture, which I think can be had for about the same one-time price as we're currently paying -per year- to the extortionists at the booth rental end.

The kicker is that -I- have no means to transport or store said furniture. Do any of the likely booth primaries have garage space and plan to show up at GenCon in a van or truck?

I'm going to be looking at furniture that can be broken down for storage and transport, so no excessively large amount of space will be required to move or house it.

Want to save yourself a few hundred bucks of booth expense each and every year? Offer the Forge booth some storage space and room in your van? Maybe Ron can sweeten the deal in terms of future booth participation costs. Ron?

Greg Porter
BTRC

Hiya,

I think it's tricky to help share costs on this stuff, but really, it comes down to two ways.

1. The banner method. A couple of people worked very hard and had a very professional, very cool banner made. They invoiced the rest of us (well, it was more troublesome than that and I accidentally made one person mad, but in effect, it worked out that way) and we all chipped in our parts. Now the banner is in the "bring to GenCon" pile in my Adept office, and it's on me to respect the group payment and bring it every time.

2. The cash register method. One person simply bought the damn thing and brings it. It's his, and no one else helped pay for it. He brings it out of the goodness of his heart, and that's that.

Now, which of these is going to apply to furniture, I don't know. Greg, since you're the point man, it's totally up to you which works better for you, and the rest of us will abide by that.

And yeah, someone better step up to help with transport, if they think it should happen. This is where people actually show that they can do it rather than just talk about what "someone" should do.

Best,
Ron

On furniture:
The primary sponsors are going to be coughing up for it one way or the other, either as rental every year, or as a one time purchase of about the same amount.

I'm willing to shop around, find and pay for the stuff out of my pocket, -if- the other primaries are willing to pay me back for their proportionate share (preferably before GenCon) -and- someone can store and move the stuff (or buy me a new truck to cart it around with).

There aren't going to be any surprises here. Once I find something that seems suitable, I'll post links for everyone to check it out and see what the final total (and therefore financial committment) would be. Ron has already said that simply renting tables and chairs is going to run $200 or more per primary. It seems if I can closely match that total for perpetual ownership of quality booth furniture, then we have a good deal.

However, I'm not going to cough up a grand or more for furniture I can't store, can't move and won't get reimbursed for.

So, is anyone willing to step up and be the warehouse and transport? It doesn't have to be perpetual, but it will mean a commitment until at least the following GenCon (so you could hand it off to someone else), or being close enough to another willing Forgite to deliver it to them should your circumstances not allow you to bring it.

And, some thoughts on how many tables, how many chairs, and any other preferences? For instance, I think pedestal tables are the way to go, but what size tabletop do we want? 30"? 36" Round? Square? Chairs with backs? Stools? etc.

Greg Porter
BTRC

Though I cannot warehouse (living in Virginia), I thought I should add that the idea that the primary sponsors will forever be paying equal shares of rental is missing out on one element: Some of us little fry (me, me!) have definite aspirations toward becoming primary sponsors in years to come.

If you end up investing big bucks now, you should also think through how folks are going to buy into a share of that investment later.

If you end up investing big bucks now, you should also think through how folks are going to buy into a share of that investment later.

Someone? Anyone? Save yourself $200+ every year on booth fees? No one here has a truck/van and a garage/storage space? Heck, if they had the storage space, that person could rent a van and get reimbused for it and we'd still be saving buttloads of money.

Greg Porter
BTRC

I remember that last time this came up that someone tossed out the idea of renting storage space in the Indy area. How feasible/expensive would that be? It would make transport way easier, and reduce the risk of Bad Things happening to the furniture. On the other hand, it would make things at least a bit more expensive.

Thomas

Doesn't make transport that much easier. We'll still need a vehicle on-site that can move the stuff.

Greg

The info that I found last year, I posted here .

Transportation really is much, much easier if it's nearly on site. Lots of us have vans and trucks and SUVs that won't have room for all that furniture and the stuff we're bringing to the con but would be able to unload and then go get the furniture. It also might be that the storage place rents a van for $20/day (the last storage unit I had, had such a deal). And if we/you are lucky, you can have the furniture delivered to the storage closet if there's someone local (even if not a primary) that you can draft for a little work.

If the Forge website as we know it is closing in 2-3 years, what about the Forge GenCon booth experience? I think that buying the furniture is clearly a big cost savings over time (maybe as little as two years), but do you all have the time?

Lots of us have vans and trucks and SUVs that won't have room for all that furniture and the stuff we're bringing to the con

I would like some actual numbers on what's being saved. Seriously.

How much furniture do we actually get with the booth, and how much additional stuff did we end up renting and how much did that cost?

I know from experience that furniture is a ripoff from the con suppliers, but let's lay it out so everyone knows just how much savings we're talking.

Hello,

Official numbers, based on past years (I'm too lazy to dig out this year's envelopes):

We get two long tables with the booth. We cannot trade them in for shorter tables; we have to give them back for nothing and then pay for shorter tables. We've tried to get around this with placing the tables carefully, but it doesn't work - we really need a short table, and no (or maybe one max) long one.

We need at least five, preferably six round tables.

Chairs are the killer - three chairs per table, and another couple, at least for the cash person of the moment. We get two with the booth. The chairs are surprisingly expensive.

Total cost, at the non-late fee, is about $850, and upwards of $1000 for the late cost.

Best,
Ron

Ron,

Holy crap! That pricing is ridiculous. I could probably store and bring down some or all of the folding chairs depending on how many that would be. I don't have a van/truck but I do have a nice big ass Buick. So what I am saying is I am volunteering my services to store folding chairs.

Keith

Ron,

To clarify:

6 x round tables (are we looking at 36" or 48" diameter, and are we looking at 23" standard or 46" cafe in terms of height?)
2 x "short tables" (are we talking about 48"x30", 48"x20" or some other size?)
20 x folding chairs (at a minimum; we have problems utilizing standard chairs with cafe sized tables)

We can probably swing the chairs for around $25 a pop, so that's $500.

All of the tables can be had for somewhere between $70-$100 each. On the high end that's $800.

So, we're looking at an upper limit of around $1300. Assuming that we have less than $300 in storage/transport costs we make money back the second year.

It's actually likely that we'll get the tables at the low end of that, which puts us at closer to $1100 for all of it.

Thomas

Two chairs behind the main cash table is probably fine. But how many tables do we want for the rest of the booth? That determines how many chairs or bar stools we need.

I can manage to store and transport a few bar stools, like 4 in the back seat of the car and store them in trash bags out in the unheated and slightly leaky storage shed. It's the 36" to 42" pedestal tables I'm looking at that are the problem. BTW, these break down into base, pedestal and tabletop, so they aren't hogging huge amounts of space for storage. They will take more volume than a folding table, but a lot less length for cargo bed purposes.

Greg Porter
BTRC

FWIW, I think the high tables are the way to go. It puts a sitting person at eye height with passerby. Also, if one particular demo uses a bunch of chairs, another demo can manage by having the participants stand.

Greg

I did a quick check of Target (sorry I like Target) and this is what I found:

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=1-7/qid=1108745888/ref=sr_1_7/602-3455072-0420602?%5Fencoding=UTF8&asin=B000063SJ3
black vinyl coated metal folding chair and tables, they have them in ‘taupe’ as well.

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/ref=br_1_15/602-3455072-0420602?%5Fencoding=UTF8&frombrowse=1&asin=B00020L6OC
6’ long folding table.

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/ref=br_1_3/602-3455072-0420602?%5Fencoding=UTF8&frombrowse=1&asin=B00020L6ME
4’ long folding table

This was only one place, but I didn't find any game size tables in the same category. $17.99 is the price for the chairs, and I like the fact that they are metal. The plastic ones from the convention suppliers are a bit flimsy, and kinda narrow. IMO having to rent the chairs is the killer.

I'd like to propose that, instead of buying all the furniture in one fell swoop, we could start this year with the chairs and, if that works out of us, continue acquiring tables, etc next year. Which would give us a chance to test it out before dropping a grand or two on purchase and storage.

yrs--
--Ben

Whoa - good idea, Ben.

Greg, do you think that works? Tables as usual, chairs via purchase?

Also, I'm disposed toward the shorter tables, rather than bar-height tables.

Best,
Ron

Ben,

Good idea, but... We'll have to make a decision on size now. If we decide to go with 43" cafe tables we'll need bar stools instead of folding chairs.

If we purchase stools will we be able to rent cafe sized tables?

Thomas

Greg, do you think that works? Tables as usual, chairs via purchase?

Also, I'm disposed toward the shorter tables, rather than bar-height tables.

Hi,

I don't know if this helps,
Mike and I picked up 7 folding chairs from a closing sale at a local store.
They are round seated and therefor smaller than the standard square picknick folding chairs although they seat at the same height. They do have a weight limit of 200 lbs but are pretty sturdy. (Mike and I both having tested them) The have a padded seat and a padded back.

If you think they'd be useful Mike and I would be happy to bring them and store them.

The next question: how specific do we want to be on the chairs/stool? Get a certain height only? Or specific brand and item? Do we need to be consistent? There's a bit of an indie flare in a collection of various sitting pieces...

I'm going to keep bugging everyone about the carpeting - rent the carpet as usual or purchase interlocking foam mats? Please see post in "Gen Con 2005 booth specifications"

-thanks

As far as storage goes I'd be more than happy to store the tables and chairs at my house. I've got the room and they will not ever be in my way. Transporting them to the 2006 con should be easy I have a big enough vehicle for them, and if I should be unable to attend the 2006 con then there are three other regular Forge booth people in my area that could take them or if worst came to worst I could have them shipped to the con very cheaply as I get a huge discount on shipping. The only logisitc problem that I see with me storing the tables and chairs is that I was planning on leaving the 2005 con around 1pm on Sunday and that would mean someone else would have to transport them back here, Paul Czege would be the best equipped to do this, but he brings the bookshelf and his truck would have limited space then and I don't want to volunteer him for something he may be uninterested in doing. I could stay for the whole day Sunday to bring back the tables and chairs, but I'd be a little reluctant to do this since I work so early on Mondays.

Also the chairs and tables will have to be pretty sturdy since they are going to be in a semi abusive enviorment with many different people using them. When people get up or sit down they tend to put a lot of weight on one part of the chair or table when they are easing themselves down or getting up. Doing this 20 times in one day is gonna put a big strain on them. Not to mention the people who absent mindedly lean back in them.

Also I know somebody who works at NBS in Ohio and I could easily get prices or a catalog of chairs and tables from them and it'd be easy for me to pick up the stuff once it came in. Of course I can't get the catalogs until Monday now as business hours are over.

Not to mention the people who absent mindedly lean back in them.

These things do not last too long in continuous use, but for a few days a year they should hold up a while and look classier than stools:

http://www.staples.com/Catalog/Browse/SKU.asp?BCFlag=False&PageType=1&SKU=438030

They also probably ship unassembled, which makes them easier to get to the show, though they would take up a bit of space on the way back.

Been a lot of talk, but no apparent decisions. Ron, where do we go from here? Do we rent tables and buy chairs? And if so, how many tables are being planned and what size and height, so I know what kind of seating to be looking for. And what about the padded flooring stuff?

Greg Porter
BTRC

Actually, I'd personally say stools for the con give it a simple, easy to approach look myself. The rolling chairs...eh...space for transport and on the floor would be a concern. Besides, wheeled chairs are known to bring out the five year old in everyone ^_^

I'd ahve to go against the rolling chairs aswell. They are far to bulky to transport and will take up too much space in the booth. If we want to keep demos quick we need to go with the fast food method of purchasing furniture - as uncomfortable as possible. Those rolling chairs look far too comfy to keep traffic moving. We don't want people wasting our time in a demo they are only playing so they can get comfortable do we?

I still like the idea we discussed last year of high tables with no chairs at all.

,Matt

I confess that I am severely conflicted about all of this. Yet the clock is ticking.

Conclusions to follow after a brief huddle with the other primary booth guys.

Best,
Ron

Just a couple of things. I've been lurking for a while now, but finally registered. I am known to Paul Czege(and Pauls Girl!) and Tama.
I'm not sure if you have already purchased the tables and/or chairs yet. The idea of the tall tables and chairs is also good, but try to keep it wheelchair accessible. There are quite a large number of gamers that are confined to a chair. Maybe a mix of tall and short?