I just had either an extreme good, or extremely bad idea. It feels very good to me right now, but I'm under the influence of Saw, House of 1000 Corpses, and Kill Puppies for Satan and similiar things that I like and have been recently reflecting on.
It seems to me that at heart, the magic system in my game (which you can read about in another thread) takes away a bit from my stated purpose: Horror through fear of agnozing, physical pain and death. There are elements of it that are crucial, but the idea of Acolytes throwing around lightning bolts and what-have-you is definately a square peg in the round holes I've set up.
The crucial elements of the magic system are:
1.) People/things who are difficult to harm (i.e., cannot be harmed by ranged weapons, or sometimes any weapons at all), forcing hand-to-hand conflict.
2.) An Entity or Entities which grant power in exchange for performing evil services- that's how the above listed resistances are put into the game.
3) The Acolyte/Entity/Warlock set-up serves as the major source of antagonists in the game.

So my question is, what happens if I cut out everything else? As in, the only 'powers' you get for performing services to the Great Being is these resistances- which would be expanded. The Acolytes don't get sick, don't age quickly, are harder to hurt, heal quickly, and so on, with ever-increasing hardiness based on how long they have been in the service. All the 'powers' are very subtle, very visceral, very non-flashy. In return, the services performed are very visceral as well- relating to the maiming and killing of people and animals in very extreme ways, think Se7en.
The Great Beings take a severe back-stage; no more summoning of grisly demons, or hardly any obvious magical effects at all, just whisperings and dreams in the minds of the Acolytes. As a matter of fact, with only one kind of power/reward, there's only a need for one Great Being, though he may be interpreted in various ways. It may or may not even have a personality, or goals of it's own. The possibility for Satanic overtones is obvious At the very least, it allows for Antagonists that are truly, obscenely evil, instead of the bombastic, Darth-Vader style of evil I feel I might be setting the game up for otherwise.
The result of all this? To the outside world, the Acolytes seem like hard-to-kill serial killers with a habit of forming cliques or cults. It is only from the Acolytes own point of view that they are sorcerers performing magic. The PC's are special because to some degree, they have figured out that there are people out that there is something supernatural going on- perhaps seeing a body get up and walk out of a morgue, or a killer take way too many bullets and keep running. Once again, the primary risk to the PC's is getting gutted by a sword or meat-hook, instead of being eaten by a monster or blasted by a magical doom-bolt. This gives more justification and emphasis on the brutality of combat in the game.
There are sacrifices here- the interesting conflict of learning magic to combat magic is completely gone, as is the 'War in Hell' spiritual politics of this demon working against that demon. However, I think this approach makes serious gains if the theme of the game is visceral, physical horror.
So, what all do you think of this approach vs. the old one?

Honestly, I like it better. But I am much more of a non-flashy horror fan. I agree that if you're going for the dark horror, flashy magic might ruin that. It'll definitely be a different sort of game.

You could have some subtle magic that's not directly related to combat, such as persuasion, hauntings, curses, secrets...

There are sacrifices here- the interesting conflict of learning magic to combat magic is completely gone

You could have some subtle magic that's not directly related to combat, such as persuasion, hauntings, curses, secrets...

In either case, you still need to make pacts with the dark side if you want to gain power, right?

Hey,

I totally like this way better. I always thought your magic in the original writeup was another RPG trying to horn into the picture.

Also, are you familiar with the game Dread? Highly recommended, for some comparison with your current notions.

Best,
Ron

Why not make some magic based on things that are meant to drive characters to insanity? Magic that creates illusions, blood manipulation, etc. that would seem to still be creepy, and give room for some cool magic. I guess?

Magic that creates illusions, blood manipulation, etc. that would seem to still be creepy, and give room for some cool magic.

Also, are you familiar with the game Dread?

Ah I see..Interesting/cool. :)

So, no magic then? Or just no players having magic, and suppernatural will be in the backdrop, like, against the players?

Heya,

Bailing wire and bloody mattresses? Oh, totally. I get this. And yeah, the whole idea of spells slinging around is just outta there.

Let's get back to the stuff you really wanted ... martial arts? What sort of martial arts, in visceral terms? I'm getting the vibe that high-flying wuxia really isn't the point either, nor snap-and-crackle Mortal Kombat.

We're talking more bunched-fingers-to-the-throat stuff, dislocated shoulders, deadly-stare stuff, right? Early Steven Seagall? Or even Sonny Chiba?

Best,
Ron

For a "mystic" element, check out the movie "The Nineth Gate"- with Johnny Depp. The whole thing is concerned with satanic powers and "Dark Magic", but it never once comes center stage. Its a very real world, very real people, with...coincidences...happening. A strange blonde haired woman with green eyes who always shows up and saves the day, an employer who knows way to much, as though he's looking over your shoulder even though he's a continent away. This fits more with your "dreams and whispers" element than other, flashier magic.

What sort of martial arts, in visceral terms?

For a "mystic" element, check out the movie "The Nineth Gate"- with Johnny Depp.

Or just no players having magic, and suppernatural will be in the backdrop, like, against the players?

I can imagine the players using the concepts of magic against their enemies in desperate circumstances, even if they don't have a taste for grotesque role-playing. I find myself thinking of the ending of Neil Gaiman's American Gods, when (SPOILER) Laura stabs an ancient spear through herself and into Loki, and says "I dedicate this death to Shadow." She's using the bad guys' power against them at a high cost to herself. (END SPOILER)

I think that kind of last-chance opportunity to use magic could make for some excellent player choices.

I think that kind of last-chance opportunity to use magic could make for some excellent player choices.