Talking with Clinton about a space-age Donjon (which might become my Donjon supplement, we'll see), coupled with an inspiring mention from Jon Morris (of Ape-Law) about "Alien school", and finally adding in my own continuous drive for a) a fun sci-fi rpg, and b) games w/ tons of director/author stance, I've decided to hash out a game:

Alien Descent Team. The raw Premise is: Can you function under extreme mental & physical pressure? My refined Premise is: Can your alien function under the extreme pressures of an Alien Descent Team (ADT)?

The setting is pretty basic (defined as tight or broad as the players like): There a millions of alien races throughout the known universe, and there is a large amount of unexplored territory. Some of these places are archaeological treasures, others bear new aliens to bring into the Interculture, etc. etc.

ADTs consist of a motley crew of different aliens who must survive both the physical demands of their job, and the emotional and intellectual demands of cooperating with teammates who all operate on a fundamentally different level.

Add in the fact that Alien Descent Team should allow players to fill in most of the environment during play (as in, mechanics provide a method to create the lost civilizations, alien races &c., all by players & the GM during play).

With this concept in mind, I start to think about mechanics. Thoughts on this:
* Same mechanic should handle mental and physical challenges
* Provide Director control to the players
* Tie in the Unknown Factor to the Premise.

I'll tackle mechanics next post. Just wanted to get this thing down, and what better place than the Forge. Comments, questions are always encouraged.

Dunjon could also be a wicked kick ass "bug hunt" sci-fi thriller game...

I'm getting movement all over the place! Shit, they're in the celing!

Take on the roll of a group of Advance ExoRecon Rangers (Aexers)- the bloody "Bug Boys" to the rest of the Combine Industrial Military.

A "Bug Boy" team consists of A sergent, a two special weapons experts, a synthetic expert system AI (with superhuamn physical and mental powers, a sarcastic sense of humor, and pacifist programing), and an ESPER ranger (basicly, the sci-fi equilivent of a magic user... with Words like TK, Pyro, Telepathic, Empathic, Clairvoyant, Remote View, etc).

The Officer (always a green luetenant) sits back in the LIU (Land Infiltration Unit) hooked up to the VR feed from the soldiers combat rigs, barking orders, and being a major pain in the ass. He issues increasingly shitty orders as things get worse and worse.


HEL's (Hostile Exobiological Lifeforms) come in zillions of pointy, fangy, acid spitting, chest-busting forms. Aexer units call shipping out on a mission-"Going to Hel".





more to come... the brain never quits.

Heck, I'll have to start a Spacey Donjon thread separately, 'cause it looks like it's already generating excitement. I'll go ahead and cut n paste your comments into a new thread.

That's cool. I want to write up a space combat/salvage expansion called StarKrawl as well. In my copius free time, that is.

Note: I've made a new thread for Donjon in Spa-a-a-a-a-ace here.

More mechanics stuff. To reiterate, the system should support:
* Premise - Can you overcome the challenges placed on your team?
* Director Stance - Players should have a large hand in creating the environment & situations

There's something missing to make a final decision on Mechanics. Namely, the Premise as written doesn't grab me. There must be more of a struggle. I already know that one major obstacle between the players will be that they all play different alien races. They are as alien to each other as they would be to us. I think the majority of conflict should arise between the fundamental differences between alien psychology and physiology. In fact, the challenges of environment should pale in comparison to functioning as a team. The situations encountered would be far easier to tackle if everyone were on the same page.

Now the game's Premise shifts to: Can your team overcome their differences in order to meet the challenge of an Alien Descent Team? Now that I have a Premise, I need to decide on the Unknown Factor. The Unknown Factor is where I want the tension to play out. This part's easy: Tension occurs when the outcome of a challenge hinges on the aliens' ability to cooperate.

So, my Mechanics must not only handle the two items listed above, but it needs:
* Unknown Factor - Can the aliens overcome differences to meet the challenge?

I'll mull this over and post more later.

Zak Arntson wrote:
There's something missing to make a final decision on Mechanics. Namely, the Premise as written doesn't grab me.

All this is sounding eerily familiar ...

I'd like to point out that clearly two things are being discussed or conceptualized on this topic: (1) Donjon in Space and (2) this premise-y thing about dealing with stress/danger. I'd also point out that the #2 doesn't sound Narrativist but Gamist ("survive this dungeon!"), and if that's the intent, that's fine.

Check out Pantheon, specifically the chapter based on movies like Alien(s) [good] and Deep Star Six [not]. Also, see Bughunter, the first setting for The Amazing Engine (by Lester Smith). Basically, I think the whole idea's been done ...

Best,
Ron

I will have to take a look at Pantheon. It's on my list of "to get and play" games for our Indie Gaming Sundays.

And I am aware that ADT is a Gamist rpg. In the very early beginning, I thought it would be Narrativist. The Premise (Can we cooperate to overcome odds) naturally leads to a Gamist concept. And it's also a good recurring theme from sci-fi: That of aliens overcoming their differences to reach a common goal.

Donjon focuses on the dungeon crawl challenges (monsters, magic, traps, challenges to brawn and brains). ADT is an entirely different monster (though if Donjon goes OGL, I may openly steal the dice pool/fact mechanics from it, we'll wait and see).

ADT focuses on the personal relationships and how they affect the outcome of things. Normal situations become difficult because your alien has offended the other. Or you just can't collectively grasp a certain concept.

I'm still trying to figure out the mechanics, but it will revolve around the relationships between the different alien characters. The basic unknown factor is: How does my relationship with another alien change? The reward is: Increased understanding causes success towards goal. I have to come up with some good way to get this to be roleplayed.

I know have three areas to tackle with the Mechanics. I'm going to list them here (without any specific mechanic), just to see if they make sense within the game. Or if someone can point out something I'm missing ...

* Challenges - These are the obstacles, overly difficult for one Character, that becomes easier the more the Characters can cooperate.

* Affinity - This is the measurement of ability of Characters to work together. The closer a pair of Characters are, the greater their Affinity, and better their ability to overcome Challenges.

* Speculations - Players are encouraged to come up with theories and potential problems, which the GM then uses along with her own plans. In fact, the "adventure" should consist of some Speculations becoming fact.

The core of the mechanic is rewarding attempts at cooperation by making Challenges easier or possible to overcome. Affinity ties into this, offering roleplaying opportunity and encouraging increased Affinity.

My questions for y'all, then: Are Speculations necessary? I want them in to bolster the sci-fi aspect (most sci-fi stories consist of "Here's a problem, here's a theory to solve the problem, and it works!") and further engage the Players. But will Affinity alone properly engage Players?

I prefer, as Player, to have a certain amount of Director Stance, but for all I know, it's not a very common desire.

Zak -

So (my take) the heart of this game is that the players are truly-alien individuals who share little in terms of psychology, values, assumptions, yada yada. The game is an exploration of the interaction between
* fundamental non-comprehension of the Other
and
* cooperating with the Other to acomplish a shared goal while under pressure

This reading paves over your stated Premise. Instead of "Can your alien withstand the pressure," I've substituted "Can fundamentally different cultures cooperate?"

Most games I've seen essentially drape fairly small differences between attitudes with different species.* "You're a dwarf, so you're practical and like rocks, not trees." This is a fine shorthand but it what happens if we intensifty rather than reduce cultural differences? Even within a species we've seen the culture clashes of Conquistadores and Mayans, for example. How much greater would the difference be between different species? This sounds like something interesting to me.

This may be what you were referring to by "Affinity", but worktogtherness is a little to broad for me - we might work badly together because we grate on other, for example. The Big Question, at least from where I'm sitting, is how to reflect Alienness between characters. How are Nancy and Sven going to play these differences so that they (a) register and (b) form interesting parts of the story? And possibly (c) make sense.

Whether Sim, Nar, or Gamist, I'd like to see some rules that explicitly deal with this Great Divide. From where I'm sitting, this seems to be a pretty tall order.


First thought:
As stated, each character is essentially unique, for terms of game play. As unique and crazy and foriegn as imaginable.
As regular attributes, characters are measured in made up of a number of different fields - Physical, Metaphysical (luck, psi, whatever), Mythological (worldview), blah blah. Rather than numbers, each attribute has three words. These words are used to create complications which both up the risk and produce the metagame currency needed for success.

example:
Gaha, from the Zebulon Sector
Physical: Feathers, Green, Movie
Metaphysical: Difficulty, Naive, Scarecrow
Mythological: Rings, Walls, Scorpion.

Nancy: "Quick, Gaha! The thermoleeches are coming! Help me close the hatch!"
Sven: Gaha shrugs sadly. "As is well known in the Zebulon Sector, only one may close a ring. For two to do so cuts all bonds between them as the opening is closed. I value you too much to assist you in this endeavor."
GM (Loving that the thermoleeches will now come aboard the ship, and also Sven's nice explanation): Sweet. Add 3 dice to the pool.


Second thought:
If things end up being pretty Gamist, go the Cosmic Ecounters route - players decide in advance how their alien resolves conflicts differently, and go from there.

example:
"All 1s that I roll explode - reroll and add to my current total. ..Uh, Gaha is from a perfectionistic society where mediocrity is barely tolerated. Due to this pressure, he's always second-guessing himself and others. He comes across as tense, bossy, and unlikable."


Thoughts?

-Matt



*The only exceptions that spring to mind are Traveller and Tekumel (note: additions to this list would be most welcome.)

Funny you should bring up this switch in Premise. I was just about to post a shift in the game, just as your message popped up!

Anyhow, I fully agree! I've been hashing out my issues with the game, and came across the realization: Most games present physical and logical challenges, while letting the social interaction be completely up to the players. In ADT, why not have the Players control the challenges, while the Social interaction is the Unknown Factor?

So I'm thinking that there are still three parts to the mechanics: Challenge, Speculation, Affinity.

Right now, I have PCs consisting of a name, and a list of specialties. Since they are on an exploration team, there will be varied specialties (archaeologicy, biological, communications, etc.). Each PC needs at least one unique specialty. The only other stat given for each character is an Affinity. On your own sheet, you list every other character and put a number (from 1 to 3), which is your Affinity with that PC. The higher it is, the more likely your effective communication and cross-cultural understanding. I'm not quite sure how to do this stat. I'm leaning on a single sheet for the entire party, that connects each PC with a number between them. For now, assume this. For example, you have three players: Groop, Fishhead and Needle. The party sheet looks like:

Groop -- 2 -- Fishhead
Fishhead -- 1 -- Needle
Needle -- 3 -- Groop.

This means that Needle and Groop can get along fairly well, but Fishead is at some cultural disadvantage when cooperating.

When a Challenge is presented (before any "declaration of intent"), everyone immediately rolls 3 dice. Count the number of matching dice:
* 0 matching dice - You will only succeed if your specialty explicitly covers the Challenge.
* 2 matching dice - You will succeed if your specialty is related to the Challenge.
* 3 matching dice - You succeed, regardless.
Note that this is explicit Fortune in the Begining. The intent is to get the tension caused by the Challenge immediately out of the way, allowing Players to concentrate on relationships.

Then comes a Fortune in the Middle mechanic. When a Player suggests a solution to the Challenge, called a Speculation, Players (with characters interacting) make an Affinity roll. Each player rolls a number of dice equal to their Characters' Affinity towards each other. Compare matching dice:
* 0 matching dice - Misunderstanding
* 2 matching dice - Understanding, but some disagreement
* 3 matching dice - Understanding, agreement.

The situation is then roleplayed out until another Challenge or Speculation appears. Players should write down the emerging traits and cultures about their own aliens as play progresses.

How does this sound? I have a feeling it needs to be fine-tuned and copious examples of play given. It's a shift from the typical "you meet a challenge, make a bunch of STR, INT, WIS, DEX rolls!" It's more "your PC can solve the Challenge if she wants, how will she do it? And can you get the other Players to cooperate?"

The problem with the mechanic is that it's fairly random. There's really no place for Players to influence their rolls. So, I'm going to mull this over a bunch. I think I have the beginning of a good mechanic. Maybe not enough to get it done for the March Maus game, though.