Hey, I'm new here. Tymen is me. I've been working on this game for a few months now. I think I'm finally getting somewhere.

As Above, So Below

“Bless the Lord, ye His angels, that excel in strength, that do His commandments, hearkening unto the voice of His word.”
Psalm 103:20

You are God’s Will made manifest, sent to walk among the dark places, to watch over Mankind, and to protect the Free Will which God has granted them. But can you touch the darkness without, in turn, being touched by it.

Can you walk among the mortals without succumbing to Temptation? Can you stand against the Fallen, your former brethren, without succumbing to their fate?

Know this, as you gaze into the mirror, the Fallen gaze out at you.

“He who fights with Monsters might take care,
Lest he thereby become a Monster.
And if You gaze for long into an Abyss,
The Abyss gazes also into You.”

Friedrich Nietzche

As Above, So Below is being made to explore a Universal theme.

Can one who exists in the realm of moral absolutism (Good vs. Evil, Black vs. White) maintain their moral integrity in a world of moral relativism (Shades of Gray)?

In other words can you maintain your Faith, while surrounded by Faithlessness?

Seems simple, but it is a question that intrigues me to no end.

Other ideas that can be explored:
Can Love redeem you? Is Redemption worth it?
Is the Road to Hell paved in Good Intentions?
On matters of Faith, Is it better to question or follow blindly?

As Above, So Below
Character Creation

Choose a Title: what you are the Angel of. Ex. Angel of Rain or Thunder.
When you act within your purview (your fiefdom), you gain no corruption through mechanical (dice) means.

Choose a Flock: Who do watch over?
Create a Faithful: Whom you can call to do God’s bidding?

Stats
Primary
Soul Your core, your spiritual being.
Pool represented by White dice.

Flesh Your facade, your physical being.
Pool represented by Red dice.

Love Purpose/Duty.
(Faith) Pool represented by White dice.

Will Wants/Needs.
(Pride) Pool represented by Red dice.

You have 10/12 points to divide among the four stats.
(When done, add together Soul and Love, this is your starting Purity.
Add together Flesh and Will, this is your starting corruption.
(You may choose to remove Corruption by using Purity points and vice versa.)

Special
Virtue Closeness to God

Sin Distance from God

Choose both a Strength and a Weakness from the Seven Heavenly Virtues and the Seven Deadly Sins.

Example: Justice and Pride.

When performing actions that fall under the purview of Justice, you may replace, up to your Virtue score, in red dice with white dice. When performing actions that fall under the purview of Pride, you must replace, your Sin Score, white dice with red dice. (Minimum 1 die for both.)

Seven Heavenly Virtues and Seven Deadly Sins
Faith versus Pride
Hope versus Envy
Charity versus Avarice
Fortitude versus Sloth
Justice versus Wrath
Temperance versus Gluttony
Prudence versus Lust

Ideas for Virtue/Sin:
- May add to personal pools for conflict resolution.
- May subtract from others pools for conflict resolution
- May limit extra dice rolled for both sides of a conflict.

Pools
Purity: Your Essence of Good.

Corruption: Your Essence of Evil.

Purity and Corruption are both gained in play; they are pools of points both to be used during the game and for character advancement.

Possibilities of how to spend during play
- Spend to Aid in conflict resolution (ex. add dice or successes)
- Spend to aid/hinder someone else during conflict resolution
- Spend to gain control of narrative

For each 7 x Virtue Level points of Purity gained Virtue raises by 1.

For each 6 x Sin Level points of Corruption gained Sin goes up by 1.

During advancement you may spend 14 Purity points to remove a point of Sin or you may spend 12 Corruption points to remove a point of Virtue.

During Advancement you may purchase Soul and Love using Purity, or Flesh and Will using Corruption. The cost is equal to twice the level you wish to buy to. If you want to go from 4 to 5, it costs 10.

Soul and Love both have maximums of 7, Flesh and Will have maximums of 6.

Flock and Faithful (Pack and Pawns)
What would you do to protect those who serve you or whom you watch over?

Flock (Pack): Those who you watch (hold sway) over.

When acting in the best interest of your flock, all purity awards are doubled. When acting against them, all corruption awards are doubled.

Example: The Archangel Michael is the Patron Saint of Police Officers.

Example 2: Fallen Angel Mammon Patron Demon of Bankers

Faithful (Pawn): Those you can inspire to God’s (or your) bidding.
Those touched by God (or the Devil) in some way.

When you act in the best interest of your faithful, you must replace a red die with a white during rolls. When acting against their best interest, you must replace a white die with a red die. They also have the same doubled awards of Purity and Corruption.

Example: Michael’s - Michael Seamus - An Irish Beat Cop, who has a strong moral fibre and belief in God, a good roman catholic.

Example 2: Mammon’s - George Tremayne - A loan shark, rich, cruel and vain. Money is his religion, and he worships it regularly.

In game rules, Scenes may be told using your Flock (Pack) as the catalysts or basis for them.

Your Faithful (Pawns) can be used as your main protagonist during these scenes.

Dice Mechanics
Soul Mechanic
Roll d8’s, take any natural 7s out of the pool, and then add the other dice together to get 7s. They must add up to exactly seven. (1+6, 2+5, 3+4, 2+2+3, 1+2+4, etc…) Any leftover points are used to work out the narrator of the scene.
Each 7 represents an indirect outcome during the scene, which you control.

Flesh Mechanic
You roll d6s, remove 6s, add them together to get the total and then divide by six, that is your total number of sixes. Any leftover points are again used to work out the narrator of the scene.

Each 6 represents a direct outcome during the scene, which you control.

Narration
Narration of a scene is figured out by bidding, you bid either your extra points from the die roll or Purity (Corruption). A person may choose to opt out of bidding on the narration.

Narration may be bought into after the initial bidding. But only after the first outcome has been decided.

As the Narrator tells the story, others may choose to use their Successes (6s or 7s) or Purity (Corruption) to add/interject elements to the story. The Narrator may opt to counter this with Successes or Purity (Corruption) points. The narrator’s control ends when a new conflict (or an old conflict resurfaces). Thus, a new conflict phase has begun and another roll is called for. This may be brought about by the narrator themselves or by another player (or The Devil’s Advocate). They do so by introducing the conflict as element into the story.

Players (or The Devil’s Advocate) may choose to save some of their successes and use them as bonus dies for the next conflict. However, they must explain what the benefit derives from. (It must tie back into the earlier narrative.

Purity and Corruption
Purity: May only be used to help others.
In other words, you may only spend Purity points to aid other players’ characters or to help NPC’s within the context of game play. May not be used during your own narration.

Examples - Spending for Purity:

Spend Purity to gain partial control over the narrative to interject/add description and/or coincidences to improve a player’s chances to succeed in their current objectives.

Spend a Purity to change an NPC’s stated action or State of Mind during game play to alter the outcome of a narrative.

Corruption: May only be used to help your self.
In other words, you may only spend Corruption points to further your own goals within the context of game play. May only be used during your own narration.

Corruption only becomes available to use in this way, when you shift from fulfilling your duty or the wants and needs of others (following Love) into the fulfillment of your own wants and needs (following Will).

As soon as Corruption is used in this way, no Purity points may come into play, either your own or others.

Examples – Spending for Corruption

Spend Corruption to gain partial control over the narrative to interject/add description and/or coincidence to improve your own chances to succeed in your current objectives.

Spend a Corruption to change an NPC’s stated action or State of Mind during game play to alter the outcome of a narrative.

Caveat: Use of corruption in this way, can come back to bite you on the ass. Any good outcome that comes from the use of corruption points, can and will be undermined in the long run.

Also, corruption begets corruption. Expect a corruption award (penalty?) at the end of the session if this happens.

Corruption may also be used in two other ways.

During the session, you may use corruption to create a dilemma for your Angel to deal with in order to explore something of interest to you in game. These points go to the Devil’s Advocate and he uses them during the scene of the dilemma. No Purity may be obtained/gained until the Player/Character deals with the dilemma.

And/or

At the end of a session, a player may choose to spend all of his corruption points and to work with the GM to create an issue that the character must deal with in the next session. These points go to the Devil’s Advocate and he uses them during the scene of the issue. Again no Purity may be obtained/gained until the issue is dealt with.

How players obtain Purity and Corruption?

At the end of a session, players may give each player, either a point of Purity, Corruption or neither. Based on what they observed during play.

Players obtain Purity and Corruption during play by overcoming adversity or failing to do so, by performing acts of altruism and acts of selfishness.

Remember: Intentions count! In some ways, more than actions; and always know that it isn’t whether you succeed or fail, it’s how you go about it that matters.

Virtue and Sin, Strength and Weakness

Your Strength and Weakness may change during the course of a game.
As you begin to explore new story concepts, you may choose to change them, but only through narration, it must be part of the story.
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Questions:
I want to have the Angels relationship with their Faithful be like a double-edged sword. Both a help and a hindrance, but I'm not sure how to approach it mechanically? Any ideas would help.

Also I'm debating allowing players to chose whether they wish to add their all dice up to six or sevens or to use some to up the bidding points. However, all natural 6s and 7s must be kept.
Good idea?

With some tweaks, some are shown in the writ-up. You could easily play Fallen Angels, that would change the flavour of the game, but could be extremely interesting. That will be a part of the book when I get the game done.

I'm thinking of having the maximum numbers be 7 for Soul and Love and 6 for Flesh and Will. I want to limit the dice to a reasonable number.

I'm also working on a risk/reward idea for narrating scenes. longer and more complicated a scene gets. The more the pay off or the fall out.
Higher Purity/Corruption awards.

Another idea is to allow players to introduce dilemmas to other player's Angels. (Basically Bangs in Forge speak) When a player does this they are awarded a point of corruption.

Something I'm definitely adding.
If the Devil's Advocate chooses to concede the narration to the player, he is rolling against, it allows him to interrupt and introduce a scene at a later time. This scene could involve the backplot/uberplot of the story or it could involve introducing a dilemma to a player who hasn't been as active in the game. (Giving a player more face time.)

Any and all input is welcome.

Tymen VanDyk

Tymen, welcome.

I think this might be the first time an initial game idea has popped into Indie Design, simultaneously with an Actual Play post from the game. Kudos.

I love the theme you have going. Tell me more about your reasoning for the mechanics...I love novel clever mechanics that add something meaningful to the play experience.

Specifically talk to me about:

1) your reasons for different systems for Soul vs. Flesh (d8s vs d6s)

2) why do you remove natural 7s from the Soul rolls and 6s from the Flesh rolls. Do you use those like 7s and 6s, are the used for something else, or are they just discarded?

3) why do you build 7s in the Soul rolls by adding dice together to get to 7, but you build 6s in the Flesh roll by summing and dividing?

Tymen, welcome.

I think this might be the first time an initial game idea has popped into Indie Design, simultaneously with an Actual Play post from the game. Kudos.

I love the theme you have going. Tell me more about your reasoning for the mechanics...I love novel clever mechanics that add something meaningful to the play experience.

Specifically talk to me about:

1) your reasons for different systems for Soul vs. Flesh (d8s vs d6s)

2) why do you remove natural 7s from the Soul rolls and 6s from the Flesh rolls. Do you use those like 7s and 6s, are they used for something else, or are they just discarded?

3) why do you build 7s in the Soul rolls by adding dice together to get to 7, but you build 6s in the Flesh roll by summing and dividing?

A question on the fiefdoms: Does every aspect of reality have to be either angelic or demonic, or is there room for both? That is, if there is a patron angel of rain, is there/can there be a patron demon of it as well?
Also, is there a heirarchy of such things? Michael is the Archangel of Police officers (and many other things, I assume). Now I assume that I can't play him as a PC. Does he have a bunch of other angels who are patrons of police officers under him, whom I can play, or is being the 'patron of the police officers' off limits to me because it's already covered by an NPC?

A question on the fiefdoms: Does every aspect of reality have to be either angelic or demonic, or is there room for both? That is, if there is a patron angel of rain, is there/can there be a patron demon of it as well?

Also, is there a heirarchy of such things? Michael is the Archangel of Police officers (and many other things, I assume). Now I assume that I can't play him as a PC. Does he have a bunch of other angels who are patrons of police officers under him, whom I can play, or is being the 'patron of the police officers' off limits to me because it's already covered by an NPC?

These are the rules by which all Angels are bound, to break such a rule is to take a step away from the light and into the darkness.

In game terms, any time these rules are broken, corruption is earned.
The amount is dependant upon the level of transgression.

I God's Will is Paramount.

I believe this speaks for itself.

II Thou shalt not interfere with Free Will (God's gift to mankind).

No directly interfering with the Will of Man. You can suggest, cajole,
indirectly aid, or anything like that, but don't step over the line.

III Thou shalt not take up arms against they Brethren.

No fighting with other Angels. Remember what happened last time that
happened.

IV Honour the Will of those set above you.

When an Angel set above you asks you to perform a task, do so.
For he was obviously told to set you the task. See Law 1.

V Thou shalt not interfere in the Demense of others.

Don't mess around with another Angels calling.
If you're the Angel of Love, don't create a storm, just to get two people
to get stuck together under a bus shelter and thus fall in love. The Angel of Rain might take offence. You can, however, always ask for permission or get favours.

VI Thou shalt not Lie.

Makes sense.

VII Thou shalt not consort with the Fallen.

This includes fighting, above. You are supposed to be shunning them.

VIII Thou shalt not manifest thy True Nature (to Mortals).

Again, this is a lesser form of the interfering with Free Will thing.
No going all Touched by an Angel on them.

IX Thous shalt not harm an innocent.

God loves all his creations, but he really loves those untouched by sin or corruption. No harming them.

X Sing unto the Glory of God.

Angels are all part of his Choir, it was one of the reasons you were created.

and always remember to look back to rule #1.

From a game standpoint: These laws are set up to make it much easier to bring moral dilemmas into the lives of the players' Angels. It works as a good springboard I think from which to begin the game. They are a tool to help the Devil's Advocate work out dilemma's for Angels and Players.

Don't mind the humour in the explanations. The tone I'm setting for the Game is much more The Prophecy and City of Angels.

Any questions?

On the order chosen?

Anything I missed, substitutions?

Something regarding romance/sexual liason with mortals should probably be in there, assuming angels are at all subject to tempations like that. It also creates a question of what the possible result of a union like that could be.
Also, the issue of messing with another Angel's calling could end up being extremely restrictive, depending on how it's interpreted, and how many callings there are. If everything from swordplay to oratory has a patron angel that can potentially get cheesed-off if you do it, what's left to do?

It's more along the lines of abusing their demense. Making it rain is fine, causing the weather patterns to go all wacko is not. It's a fine line which Angel's walk. Just how far is pushing the envelope, that is what the game is about. What is allowable?

That is for you as the Angel to decide.

As for consorting with Mortals on that level, it could be a subset of #8 or even #2.

The reason these rules are strict is to make it difficult to walk the straight and narrow path. It is hard to remain pure in the World.

For example, you are the Honorael, Angel of Speech. You wish to to get a runaway safely home. During your narrative, should you wish it to begin raining, sure it rains and this could cause her to seek shelter in a Chinese restaurant with a payphone in the alcove. You can do that with rain.
You should not do anything beyond that with the rain. To do so is to step over the boundary set by the laws. You can but that opens you up to corruption.

The Angel of Rain in the same scene could do the exact same thing, but when she is inside as the rain slowly drips down her face it awakens a memory of her mother crying in happiness, as she steps out of a car in the rain in front of her house after getting lost when she was much younger, and thus prompting her to call her mother and home. That is perfectly within his demense.

Does that make sense? It isn't a matter of use, but abuse and degrees of power.