No, no, I'm not casting aspersions on the concept that the word "bricolage" is being used to describe.

I'm casting aspersions on the choice of the word "bricolage".

I don't like it.

First of all, it's just not a word most people have encountered.

Second of all, it's being given a whole new definition here.

What the word means to people in the broader world, is a kind of "found object" art or science, where you take bits and pieces of whatever you have around to make a gadget or work of art. It doesn't refer to ideas or concepts, but to real things, either practical or artistic. Also, the word doesn't refer to a process, but the result; a bricoleur doesn't engage in bricolage, he creates or builds a bricolage.

In the philosophy world, the word was used a few times as a metaphor for a conceptual construct within the mind. Unfortunately, it was used by deconstructionists, so according to the very rules of deconstructionism we can't really know what they actually MEANT by it... we can only form our OWN ideas of what it means, using the words they provide to us as seeds.

For the vast majority of people who come to the Forge not knowing what the word "bricolage" means, it becomes yet another piece of jargon that wants to be learned before being able to follow the discussions. This is a Bad Thing.

For the small minority of people who come to the Forge knowing the word, it becomes even MORE confusing, because it's a totally new meaning that has little to do with the real one. This is a Worse Thing.

For the tiny handful of people who come to the Forge from a well-read deconstructionist background, we're guilty of confusing the metaphor for the actuality... ironic, eh? I'd like to call this a Bad Thing, but to tell you the truth I could care less what a half dozen Deconstructionists think.

Now as I understand it, the way the word is being used here, refers to the process a game group goes through when it encounters a situation that the existing system doesn't handle adequately, in which it adds new material to the system (rules, concepts, whatever) by whatever social construct the group is operating under.

I'd like to propose the following word for this concept, as a substitute for "bricolage":

"Katamariation"

For those of you who have had your cultural head under a rock for the past year, this refers to the bizarrely weird Japanese video game, "Katamari Damacy" in which some kind of cosmic prince rolls a big ball of stuff around, glomming in various objects from his environment. As new objects are added, the behavior of the ball changes, based on the shapes and orientations of the objects that have been added to it. In order to succeed, the player needs to add objects to his katamari (the ball of stuff) judiciously, or he won't be able to maneuver it.

"Katamariation" refers to a cultural element that a lot of gamers will be familiar with, but (since the exact game name isn't used) is clearly not the same thing AS that game. It's clearly a new term. Furthermore, the cultural referent gives a solid foundation of what the word actually means.

Ordinarily, I'd be loathe to add a new word to the Forge lexicon. The glossary has, what, two HUNDRED or so items? In this case, a new word really IS needed, because this is a concept that in the past hasn't really HAD a word. I just wish that such a bad choice hadn't been made.

Now I realize that I'm probably about a week and a half too late to actually change anything. But I have earned my right to complain, because I've made a suggestion that fixes the problems I'm complaining about.

Vaxalon wrote: Now as I understand it, the way the word is being used here, refers to the process a game group goes through when it encounters a situation that the existing system doesn't handle adequately, in which it adds new material to the system (rules, concepts, whatever) by whatever social construct the group is operating under.

I have no strenuous objections, but that said, apart from this one game how much currency will the term have? In ten years?

It seems "katamari" is a Kanji meaning "clump", or perhaps "cluster".

LordSmerf wrote:
Basically, as I understand this, bricolage is used to describe the very way we create things. It is a very broad concept, in fact it may be too broad to apply anywhere directly.

LordSmerf wrote:
...the usage of the word was taken from Levi-Strauss's work with comparative mythography...

Levi-Strauss wrote:
There still exists among ourselves an activity which on the technical plane gives us quite a good understanding of what a science we prefer to call 'prior' rather than 'primitive', could have been on the plane of speculation. This is what is commonly called 'bricolage' in French. In its old sense the verb 'bricoler' applied to ball games and billiards, to hunting, shooting and riding. It was however always used with reference to some extraneous movement: a ball rebounding, a dog straying or a horse swerving from its direct course to avoid an obstacle. And in our own time the 'bricoleur' is still someone who works with his hands and uses devious means compared to those of a craftsman. The characteristic feature of mythical thought is that it expresses itself by means of a heterogeneous repertoire which, even if extensive, is nevertheless limited. It has to use this repertoire, however, whatever the task in hand because it has nothing else at its disposal. Mythical thought is therefore a kind of intellectual 'bricolage' - which explains the relation which can be perceived between the two.

First of all, it's just not a word most people have encountered.

If the word "bricolage" is being used to refer to ALL acts of creation, by any method, then yeah, it's way too broad to be useful.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Levi-Strauss makes the analogy, "Bricolage is to Engineering as mythological thought is to scientific thought."

It becomes confusing when the term changes meaning to indicate the actuality rather than the metaphor.

"Bricolage is to engineering as bricolage is to scientific thought."

How about "render", in the translation sense, rather than the rendering unto Casear sense.

Main Entry: render
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: translate
Synonyms: construe, deliver, explain, interpret, paraphrase, pass, put, reproduce, restate, reword, state, transcribe, transliterate, transpose, turn

That sounds good to me.

I'm really not expecting for a viable alternative to "bricolage" to come out of this thread. It's gone too far for that, I came in too late.

Bricolage means DIY in French, which is where LS was coming from.

No, it doesn't, GB.

If you want to build a lawn chair, and you go down to Home Depot and buy yourself a set of plans, and wood, and hardware, and tools, and go back and build the chair according to the plans, that's not bricolage.

Bricolage would be taking an ironing board, and an old tire, and some duct tape, and four coffee cans, all of which are sitting around your house, and making a chair out of them.

Let's find some authority here. The Forge is pretty dang international, someone here must be from France. Let's ask them...

Anyone? What are the specific connotations of the word "bricolage" to a native French speaker? When Levi-Strauss uses the word "bricolage" what exactly is he talking about? The final product of the activity, the activity itself, either one, both of them at the same time?

Thomas

I'm not French but my Penguin French-English dictionary says:

bricole nf strap, breast-strap (harness); coll odd job, trifle

bricoler vi do odd jobs; vt arrange (piece of business)

bricoleur nm handyman

If the concept behind Bricolage is not objectionable, why the complaint against the word that is the very name for the concept - escpecially since there is no English equivalent?

To the complaint that the word is mostly unknown; this makes sense since the concept itself is mostly unknown. This is also the very reason why there isn't an english equivalent for the concept. So we do what those who have been speaking English have been doing for hundreds of years when faced with the need for a new word that isn't currently in the language - we appropriate it. Given that we are faced with problem of not having an existing word to indicate the present progressive form of Bricole, I suggest that we mangle the word, as has been done thousands of times in our linguistic history, and simply say "Bricoling."

That the word is relatively unknown is, I think, an advantage as that means there will be very little baggage over all. That the word is relatively unknown reflects the obscurity of the concept as well. That the concept is obscure does not lessen its value for it does very effectively describe, as per the offered meaning via Levi-Strauss in Chris' article, the (Sim) game process. There are concepts involved in Bricolage that go beyond the mere concept of just glomming things together. There is a self-reflexiveness that is at heart, the concept of the abstract represented in the concrete, the notion that all the employed elements are altered by this process and this is both a boon and bust and that the bust part is just as important as the boon part, that the parts/objects themselves are extremely important and that importance is demonstrated in the very act of choosing them in the first place, etc. These are all concepts that are encompassed in the concept of Bricolage.

Bricolage is not just a word of jargon. It is a concept that is important to our understanding.

My 2 copper pieces -

Silmenume wrote: Given that we are faced with problem of not having an existing word to indicate the present progressive form of Bricole, I suggest that we mangle the word, as has been done thousands of times in our linguistic history, and simply say "Bricoling."

Count me in on that one. I'm a big fan of doing terrible things to other languages with English. Long history of that in my chosen profession.

Best,
Ron

LordSmerf wrote: Let's find some authority here. The Forge is pretty dang international, someone here must be from France. Let's ask them...

Anyone? What are the specific connotations of the word "bricolage" to a native French speaker? When Levi-Strauss uses the word "bricolage" what exactly is he talking about? The final product of the activity, the activity itself, either one, both of them at the same time?

Thomas

Vaxalon wrote: What the word means to people in the broader world, is a kind of "found object" art or science, where you take bits and pieces of whatever you have around to make a gadget or work of art. It doesn't refer to ideas or concepts, but to real things, either practical or artistic. Also, the word doesn't refer to a process, but the result; a bricoleur doesn't engage in bricolage, he creates or builds a bricolage.

Phersu wrote: I am no authority but I am French and I would say "bricolage" is definitely more the process than the end-product.

Coming from the french speaking part of Switzerland, I'll chime in with Phersu, except that as I understand the word (but that can come from regional differences, which do exist between french from France and that from Switzerland), it also means the finished product.
It often has either a childish connotation (little kids do bricolages at school as gifts for mother day, for example), or a negative one (bricolage is often used to designate poorly or hastily assembled stuff).

Here I give you the definition from an online dictionnary, supported by the University of Nancy and the Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique (French National Center of Scientific Research):

Le Trésor de la Langue française wrote: BRICOLAGE, subst. masc.
A. [Correspond à bricoler I A] Fait de se livrer à des travaux manuels accomplis chez soi comme distraction ou par économie. (...)
En partic. Activité manuelle choisie, en classe ou dans un atelier, par un enfant (...)
B. Péj. Travail d'amateur intermittent et d'une technicité sans garantie. C'est du bricolage. Mauvais travail. (...)

Yes, hence my comment that I'm coming in too late to actually effect a change.

How about the term Accretion? With the verb being to Accrete. Not sure what a person Accreting would be called, but I don't thnk you need it in this context, either.

Mike

Artanis wrote: A. [Correspond à bricoler I A] Fait de se livrer à des travaux manuels accomplis chez soi comme distraction ou par économie.

Which I would translate as:

- Manual activity accomplished at home as a distraction or as a means to save money. In particular, manual activity chosen in class or in a workshop, by a child.

Well all this ceretainly explains why trying to investigate bricolage as art technique hit a brick wall.

Thats aid though I'm not sure DIY carries the right connotations in English. It emphasises the individualism of the act rather than the methods and approaches of adapting existing materials.