Hey there,

I just took a gander at John Kim's bigass list of games and looking back year by year I was struck by how few women's names I saw. There are of course notable exceptions: Cynthia Celeste Miller, Annie Rush, etc. but I thought it might be nice to take a moment to highlight any design going on right now by women and discuss what might make the difference in bringing these ideas into reality.

So, women: what games are you working on? Which is closest to being done? What would you need to publish it this year?

I'll go:

What games am I working on?
5 games. Three for a game compendium called 3 Quick Games about the Human Heart: Breaking the Ice (a two player game about a couple's first three dates), Shooting the Moon (a 2-3 player game about two characters vying for a third character's heart), and Under My Skin (a 3+ player game where friends explore polyamory). The other two projects I've got on the back burner are Sign in Stranger (alien first contact game) and Rise Up (slavery rebellion). And far in the back of my mind Enlightenment (monastery).

Which is closest to being done? The 3QH compendium. I've got system for the first two and am working on the third.

What would I need to publish it this year? Time. Time to write out what I've already got. Time & people to playtest them with. Also help with layout. I think I have artists lined up, but when I get the text written I figure I'll be posting to the Pub forum. (I'd ask you NinjaJ, but I think you've got your plate full.) Or maybe check out the links Clint put in Shadow of Yesterday about open source layout programs. SoY is very inspiring.

Anyone else? I know Meg's got a game brewing.

Best,
Emily Care

(I toyed with putting this in the Publication forum, but thought our discussion might center more on design, so here it is. Hope it fits.)

Very quiet. Interesting.

Perhaps the first question is the place to start.

I'm working on Mythophany, which is basically a complete retooling of Kathanaksaya. I've also designed X-mas and something I'm calling the Drama system (not really appropriate now). I have no idea when I'll be done with Mythophany, but X-mas is available here.

I just released Neiyar: Land of Heaven and the Abyss. It's available at RPGNow.com currently and will be listed with Amazon, B&N, etc by the end of April. I've spent over three years on this game. First as just an alternative setting for my personal circle of gamers, then I started writing mythology for it and all the sudden it became this major project.

It's weird. When I talk to gamers about the book, I either get a look of surprise like they're thinking "WOW! A chick that games AND creates games. Cool!" or I get a look of confusion like they're thinking "Oh, a chick who thinks she can design games." I don't know why some guys think it's so bizarre. One of the greatest campaign settings of all time, Dragonlance, was created by a woman, after all. Fortunately, I haven't come across too much of that in the forums I frequent, but I get it a lot in game shops and at conventions.

People don't know that Dragonlance was designed by a woman.

Regarding female designers, Tracy Hickman (Dragonlance designer) is male afaik. One more notable female game designer certainly is CJ Carella.

Emily, I am really looking foreward to your next works. I still have a printed version of Breaking the Ice on my table, but no one willing to play, unfortunately.

<deviation>
Actually, I think you'll find the opposite - anyone who DOES know the Dragonlance setting will know that the bulk of the work was done by women. Margret Weis? Laura Hickman? Yup.
</deviation>

Feel like I do need to add something meaningful...for the sake of discussion and maybe a little insight, what in womens work in writing and gaming differs from that of a guy's work? In the aforementioned Dragonlance, I didn't pick up any differences in approach, characters, setting or the like.
Given several AP posts specifically on the subject of women and gaming there *appears* to be different approaches to gaming between the two sexes. Is there a difference in approach to design? Can anyone share something from their system to illustrate that?

I'm working on a murder mystery roleplaying game. My biggest hangup at the moment is working out a system for character creation that isn't too dice-heavy yet isn't "anything goes." I'm aiming for characetrs who fall within general human parameters without being pitably boring.

Among my circle of friends, I don't really perceive a different approach to gaming between the girl and guy gamers. (With the exception of two girls who ALWAYS have to have beautiful characters--drives me nuts) If there is a difference, the guys tend more toward a straightforward hack-slash-kill approach, whereas the women often resort to underhanded, sneaky, and manipulative tactics. But even there I don't think it's a general difference. I think it's just that my girlfriends tend to be like me: underhanded, sneaky, and manipulative ;)

With Neiyar, I set out to create a female-dominated society. Not to present it in terms of being better, but just as being different. In gaming, how many matriarchal societies are there, besides the Drow? And we all know how the Drow are portrayed. I think it presents a different roleplaying environment than most gamers are accustomed to.

What games am I working on?

Two games currently. The first, Abeo, is a game of dark wonder we started working on a few years ago. The second is Anointed, is a moral fantasy of sorts that was absorbed into the company last year.

Which is closest to being done?

Tough call. I am heading both projects and pushing to make sure they both keep up with one another. If I had to choose I'd say Anointed, since we have two extra writers working on it.

What would I need to publish it this year?

I'm going with the big three: time, a couple more reliable writers, and experience with the entirety of game development/publishing.


As far as gaming/developing differences go between women and men I can't think of any. Women are still rare in the gaming community - which is a step above the endangered species they were a few years ago.

There's my two cents.

Jennifer-
Insomnium Games
http://insomniumgames.com

My husband Michael Miller designer of With great power... pointed me to this thread and suggested I should post to it, because I designed War Story, and I've been very helpful on WGP.

What games am I working on?

There are three I'm tinkering with. One called "Fragile Gods" about being A.I. Machines after winning the war against humanity. One Called "Alley Cat" a game about gang warfare as cats. And One called "3 Penny Opera" a soap opera game.

Which is closest to being done?

"Fragile Gods" I was inspired just last week about a mechanic problem I was having that should fix the system.

What would I need to publish it this year?

A clearer rewrite, about six character templates, a logo, a couple of pieces of art and some playtesting, and then it should be ready for print.

"3 penny" is my oldest idea and still haunts me to finish it. From what Ive learned about "Task" vs "Conflict" resolution recently, I may be able to fix this game.

-kat

One more notable female game designer certainly is CJ Carella.

C.J. Carella can be seen in the fourth photo down on this page:

http://www.ogrecave.com/features/gencon2002/products/

Paul

Hi Green, Bardsandsages, Jennifer, Margaret and Kat,

Thanks for responding. It's good to know hear about your games! Those are some impressive designs.

Thanks, also to all the other folks who have responded. General discussion & responses are welcome--but let's keep on track. For the purposes of focusing this thread, let's hear about our processes of designing & publishing, rather than getting into issues of differences between what men & women might design. I'm more interested in understanding what has helped women who are designing & publishing do so, and what might have held them back.

This is a good diverse bunch of games. Neiyar is complete & available on RPG.net, Kathanaksaya, X-mas and War Stories are available online. Margaret & my games are still in development. Jennifer's seems like the largest--how many people are you working with on Abeo? Kat, is it possible to get War Stories on it's own? Sounds like you are very close with Fragile, too.

Bardandsages wrote: It's weird. When I talk to gamers about the book, I either get a look of surprise like they're thinking "WOW! A chick that games AND creates games. Cool!" or I get a look of confusion like they're thinking "Oh, a chick who thinks she can design games."

Thanks Emily,

You should be able to get a copy of War Stories, through Mike at his Incarnadine Website.

It's rather new to me to think of myself as a game designer. Ive been a GM forever, and I'm a natural tinkerer. This game would be so much better if X was removed and Y was changed...House Rule time.

My husband had to actually point out that I was just as much a designer as he was.


Like Gaming, Designing is pretty much a mens club, but again like Gaming the men who have the most to offer, are generally gender blind in my experience. There is a lot more emphasis on CAN you design amung the self published designers rather than...oh your a girl. (Of course I live a pretty sheltered life that way. I've always had lots of support in Gaming.)

I have felt intimidated during the different Cons, when The FORGE guys get together, but its not because I'm a girl, but rather because I'm just a gamer and these guys are Publishing "Real" games. That goes away as I do more and get more exposure.

I'm looking forward to your relationship games. Shooting the Moon looks really interesting.

What games are you working on?

The one that refuses to die: ElfQuest, started easily a dozen years ago, when the EQ:RPG came out and was just *wrong*.

The one that might ever see the light of day: 1001 Nights, which was born sometime four or so years ago, and talked about for the first time on the ride home from GenCon '03. Premise: the characters are people in the Palace of the Sultan, not all servants, but all unable to leave by the politics of Court. Even the Traveling Merchant from Afar is stuck here till given leave to depart. So lots of tension and sublte in-fighting to get favor/make aliances.

To pass the time, the Court engages in story-telling, asking for a story from one member. That member accepts (of course), and becomes the GM for the Story, in which roles are assigned to expose or advance or diffuse the Court-level tensions and in-fighting. So, if the Storyteller decrees that the Merchant and the Sultana's Favorite play the star-crossed lovers in the Story, it's very different if they are in fact lovers, hate each other, or are neutral.

Then there's lots of other stuff. Universalis helped point me where I wanted to go, but I want to reward good GMship instead/as well as good playing.

Which is closest to being done?

1001 Nights, definately. In that something has been writen, and other folks have even given good critique already.

What would I need to publish it this year?

Time, going back and using all the good critique, time, inspiration, find a good mechanic that works, time, re-write/finish writing, play-test, etc. Not gonna happen. If I'm lucky, I'll get the "Time, going back and using all the good critique," piece.

Meguey wrote: Which is closest to being done?

1001 Nights, definately.

I’ve been playing for a bit less than four years now, and just beginning to think of ideas for game designs. My first, a pretty big flop, was a free-form meta game, Switch. We actually play-tested it and while I had some good concepts (I believe), the didn’t work in actuality. However, here are my answers:

What games am I working on?
An untitled pirate themed game, inspired by a great non-fiction book on the subject I read last summer. I got the idea for the game at Gen-Con last year. I also started some ideas on a parody game, based on a friends finished game, but I won’t announce the name because he doesn’t know it exists. It will be playable, but in a way goofy.


Which is closest to being done?
Eh, done, started..what’s the diff? I would like to concentrate on the pirate idea since that could be taken more seriously, so right now its research and basic mechanic ideas.


What would I need to publish it this year?
Not gonna happen. Next year?

Currently I am working with one other on Abeo. Then we both work with three other people on Anointed.

This doesn't include all the outstanding help we've received with the art. We also have a handful of people writing short fiction for Abeo and a mini-fan base from our last convention.

I honestly haven't found any problems as a female developer that I wouldn't have expected as a male developer. The only biased hurdles I've come across are all age-based; and all of that is from people that aren't gamers. Individuals outside the whole gaming clique have a lot of trouble wrapping their head around the concept of writing an RPG being hard work instead of casual play.

What has helped me get things done - besides the amazing group I have to work with - is a business-based background, a horribly bossy nature and an obsession with working non-stop when I have a goal in mind. While the guys I was working with treated writing the games as a fun hobby (with good reason; it was) I was writing out business plans consisting of how many months it would take for our games to be listed on the New York Times Bestsellers. We never did figure out how long it would take since no one could stop laughing at the idea.

What has held me back, personally, is a lack of experience in the field. I'm the baby-gamer out of everyone involved, with only five years of gaming under my belt. And virtually all of that experience came from White Wolf's World of Darkness. In the past two years I've had to fit in time to become more knowledgeable in the gaming world as a whole. Diving headfirst into a business venture like this has meant a lot of frantic learning to keep from repeating a faux pas.

Another big holdback has been the money aspect. We have been pulling out the stops, reading marketing/business/etc books and wracking our minds with ways to make our products look professional. I have personal funds that are going directly into advertising and every dime has been well spent. For all the girls out there (and guys, too) I can't stress how great the advertising has been. For myself, it meant not eating out anymore or going out and doing anything that costs money.

By the by, Emily, Rise Up sounds like it'll be an extremely interesting game. Other than the thread you linked do you have anything else up about it?

Jennifer-
Insomnium Games
http://insomniumgames.com

Hey there,

Danielle: What didn't work about Switch? It's frustrating to work on games that don't click. Though what Vincent has said about "practice games" rings true to me, and for every game the gets published I bet there are piles by the same writer that do not. I look forward to the pirate, game, though. Perhaps I can lure my housemate Phoebe deeper in to the dark side (ie gaming) through her love of things privateer.

Zahtevnik wrote: Individuals outside the whole gaming clique have a lot of trouble wrapping their head around the concept of writing an RPG being hard work instead of casual play.... While the guys I was working with treated writing the games as a fun hobby (with good reason; it was) I was writing out business plans consisting of how many months it would take for our games to be listed on the New York Times Bestsellers.

For all the girls out there (and guys, too) I can't stress how great the advertising has been. For myself, it meant not eating out anymore or going out and doing anything that costs money.

By the by, Emily, Rise Up sounds like it'll be an extremely interesting game. Other than the thread you linked do you have anything else up about it?

Since my name was mentioned, I guess I should reply. ;)

What games am I working on?
I have half a dozen projects with formal notes or writing done, and about that many still in my head. Most recently I've worked on Interrrorgation and Monster Mission Squad.

The former is a horror game with its story told in flashbacks. Inital writing is 100% done, I just want playtest feedback before moving into the final editing/layout stages.

Monster Mission Squad is a superhero-esq game for playing cute Monsters. Working on this is what I would be doing, had John not pointed this thread out to me. The initial writing is maybe 40% completed. It will be ready before GenCon, though.
Here are a few posts about MMS progress.

Most of the projects I'm working on will be done by the end of the year. ;)

L&L
annie

itesser wrote:
Most of the projects I'm working on will be done by the end of the year. ;)

Emily Care wrote:
Any observations or words of advice?

--Em

Hi,

I'd like to introduce myself at this point.

My real name is Monica Valentinelli, I am project manager for http://www.flamesrising.com I work with Matt M McElroy. While I am relatively new to the RPG industry, I have a strong background in writing. I hail from UW-Madison's creative writing program.

(Started a thread about it in this forum so won't bother to repeat the specifics). I am working on my first game, called Occupation. It originally started out as a novel, so I'm trying to focus on the mechanics for the system.

I am currently writing some serial fan fiction for Keith Senkowski (Conspiracy of Shadows). If you ever have the chance to meet him, he's a lot of fun and very knowledgeable. Other projects I'd like to start up, whether they be editing or creating.

Hope all your projects are wildly successful,

Monica

Hi Monica,

Glad to hear about Occupation. (My thanks to Mike).
How did you get involved with Flames Rising?

best,
Emily

How did I get involved?

Well, at first I was just a sacrificial victim. I had never heard of things like LARP before. Matt ran a vampire LARP called "Milwaukee by Night." Crystal Odenkirk (web designer, editor, and artiste extraordinare) performed with me in a rock opera. She raved about Matt's LARP, and as it came to a close the LARP site transformed to the first design of Flames Rising. I started writing some reviews, one thing led to another and now I've expanded my horizons into doing some demo work (Flames, Eden Studios) fiction, more reviews, and working at cons. I've also had the chance to expand my digital photography. As of this year, I have had the fortune to acquire my own software so I do all my own edits. It's fun, I get to take pics at the cons we go to, various gaming events, and meet new people at the same time.

I hope to keep the momentum going!

Monica

daemonchild wrote: Crystal Odenkirk (web designer, editor, and artiste extraordinare) performed with me in a rock opera. She raved about Matt's LARP, and as it came to a close the LARP site transformed to the first design of Flames Rising. I started writing some reviews, one thing led to another and now I've expanded my horizons into doing some demo work (Flames, Eden Studios) fiction, more reviews, and working at cons. I've also had the chance to expand my digital photography. As of this year, I have had the fortune to acquire my own software so I do all my own edits. It's fun, I get to take pics at the cons we go to, various gaming events, and meet new people at the same time.

My own internal insecurity has been my major obstacle



This is the biggest barrier to putting out a game. Sadly, the writing and play testing are the easy parts. Printing a game is easy to - if you've got money, printers will take it. It's the selling, accounting and other business stuff that wrecks most game plans. That is true for men and women.

I had a game in 1995 that I thought was pretty good. The thought hit me "What if this were a success?" (Note the blind optomism.) I realized that I would screw up. I wouldn't do the accounting right, I wouldn't be able to follow it up quickly, I wouldn't sell it right. My own personality flaws would destroy me. In short I wasn't ready. So I started the slow slog to individual competence. Taught myself accounting, refined the game so that I could turn out new product rapidly if it hit, and never made a step that I could not do again or sustain. All very conservative.

Am I ready now? I'm not sure. I think I am. I feel pretty comfortable with my business skills and my skin is MUCH thicker. The ego part that started this project has been solidly kicked to death and I know exactly how much things cost so I don't lose money and I know any store that buys from me will make money. I guess I can't get more ready.

These are the observations of a male game maker but I think they do apply to everyone.

Learning basic business skills is boring but real helpful.

Chris Engle
Hamster Press

Interesting thread. I'd like to see these games actually hit the market.