The Forge Reference Project

 

Topic: New Games Journalism
Started by: Paul Czege
Started on: 4/7/2005
Board: Forge Birthday Forum


On 4/7/2005 at 7:54pm, Paul Czege wrote:
New Games Journalism

So, there's a bunch of computer games guys writing what they call "New Games Journalism."

Here's an example.

It's a reference to the "New Journalism" of Hunter S. Thompson et al. in the 60's and 70's, which was a movement to emphasize description, narration, and character development, often with the journalist writing from their own perspective about their own personal interactions with news events. The objective was to bring readers closer to the human element of the story.

The New Games Journalists believe their writing does a better job of reflecting how people experience games than traditional games journalism.

And so I'm thinking. Our Actual Play tradition is very much a "this is what we did" thing. Is there value in a "this is the experience I had" thing?

Paul

Message 15017#159528

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by Paul Czege
...in which Paul Czege participated
...in Forge Birthday Forum
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 4/7/2005




On 4/7/2005 at 8:33pm, Bankuei wrote:
RE: New Games Journalism

Hi Paul,

I can definitely see value in recording the personal experience, although I think a lot of folks fall into describing the SIS events instead of stepping back and honestly looking at their personal experience with play. I think elements of "the experience I had" come through for our actual play posts, but nothing so focused on it. I guess for me, the value would be in seeing both the personal experience AND the logistics of how it came about.

Chris

Message 15017#159554

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by Bankuei
...in which Bankuei participated
...in Forge Birthday Forum
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 4/7/2005




On 4/7/2005 at 8:59pm, Andy Kitkowski wrote:
Re: New Games Journalism

Paul Czege wrote:
And so I'm thinking. Our Actual Play tradition is very much a "this is what we did" thing. Is there value in a "this is the experience I had" thing?


Absolutely. As long as it doesn't become all frivolous and "human interest story-ey" (ex: Talk TOO much about yourself, or how Game X helped you overcome your low self esteem issues, etc).

Also, it's great for when you want to regale others with a cool tale of something that happened at the table.*
But it's not so good when you are looking for advice, comments, or lots of open discussion.

For me, the New Style Journalism, while obviously directed, using barbed language, style and pacing (opening line in the above article was "Bow, nigger", which is sure to grab your interest Right Fucking There), it's a MUCH better read than the usual "This game book has 150 pages, is glossy. I enjoyed the rules on Swimming..." reviews, and a little more... pulling... than the typical Actual Play quotes.

Here's the problem, though: The above type of journalism is definitely One Way Only: THEY make the story for YOU to read. You may have som input or comments, but they really don't have a strong place in the above type of narrative journalism.

The Actual Play posts that we haev are written in a forum of interaction and sharing: Not "I make the story, YOU read it", but rather "Here's what happened, please offer comments or advice". It seems a little to be an antithesis for the types of conversations typical Actual Play threads are meant to convey. There's not a lot of interaction, just "SPLAT" here's my dick on the table; Look at it!

Like Livejournal, actually.

Now, there's times in the Actual Play forum when that type of journalism could be a great way to engage the people reading. If you had One Great Experience, or One-Two Memorable Experiences in your session that you just wanted to share with others, that you think were cool and that you think others will think are cool, too, then by all means go for this style.

Only problem is that it takes longer to compose, because you're not just describing, you're (like a journalist) crafting words for maximum effect and impact on the reader. At the best, it's time consuming. At the worst, it's trying to jerk emotions out of others.

When browsing the Actual Play forum, I see a few places where this kind of journalism would have been cool. Luke's post about his huge Burning Wheel convention game melting down, forinstance.

Or just about any Prime Time Adventures thread. The game SCREAMS for this kind of journalistic report.

But if the reason you're posting in Actual Play is because you're looking for genuine advice on something (a problem player, a thing that didn't go right, etc), then the typical "Here's what happened" style reporting is much better for a forum environment.

-Andy

* And for most of us at the Forge, we would do this NOT to show off how cool we are, but to show others if you're in the zone, you too can have experiences as interesting as this. Sort of an "aim for this kind of an experience!", not so much just a "lookit me!" post.

Message 15017#159564

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by Andy Kitkowski
...in which Andy Kitkowski participated
...in Forge Birthday Forum
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 4/7/2005




On 4/7/2005 at 9:07pm, Andy Kitkowski wrote:
RE: New Games Journalism

BTW, Damn cool of you to bring up this topic, Paul. This has really inspired me. Damn if I'm not gonna try writing a topic or two like this to the Actual Play forum in the next few months. I'd love to see what others can do, too.

Now, I'd not post something unless I actually left wiggle room for discussion: That's the kind of person I am, and adding that wiggle room may be the dividing line between "Maybe my experience has something to offer you" and "Look at me!"

Most of these kinds of articles begin with these deeply personal kinds of experiences, and ends (or adds in the middle) generalizations, bits of report-journalism, etc.

Great idea. I know of very few RPG articles that used that type of journalism. Which may incidentally be why I find most RPG reporting/articles so tediously dry and boring, even when about games I like...

-Andy

Message 15017#159567

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by Andy Kitkowski
...in which Andy Kitkowski participated
...in Forge Birthday Forum
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 4/7/2005




On 4/8/2005 at 10:57am, Dave Panchyk wrote:
RE: New Games Journalism

The "New Journalism" is forty years old. The personal, casual style is now de rigeur for magazine feature writing.

With a computer game, with a celebrity, with a UFO-worshipping cult of neo-Nazis, the key is discovery: the writer is finding out something about a topic they--and the reader--don't know very well. With a computer game, it's the gameplay, yes; but it's also the engine behind the game, the rules of the world.

With an RPG, the rules are right there. Chances are, you're playing with people familiar enough to have already bred contempt.

In order to pull off a feature article, it'd have to have a serious twist. Playing My Life with Master (or on the other end of the spectrum, Synnabar) with William Gibson or something like that. The craziness of cons lends itself to feature-style writing, but not ye olde gaming group.

I could write an anecdote about how fantasy author Steven Brust based one of his characters on a player in a D&D game. Had I been in a different hotel room at one con back home, I could've described how the quiet wife of a former head of an OTO splinter group won a game of Illuminati, among whose players was the game's designer, Steve Jackson. That's all that comes easily to mind from 24 years of gaming.

There's got to be a hook. Bringing the unfamiliar to the readership is good enough, but RPG audiences can get familiar with a game by reading it, and want or intend to make their own interesting, creative experiences, not read about those of others.

Message 15017#159732

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by Dave Panchyk
...in which Dave Panchyk participated
...in Forge Birthday Forum
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 4/8/2005




On 4/8/2005 at 12:48pm, Sean wrote:
RE: New Games Journalism

I agree with a lot of what's been said so far. I also think that people ought to approach Actual Play threads in this style with considerable caution.

I don't know a damn thing more about how Jedi Wars Outcast works from that (admittedly quite entertaining) article, except that if you meet an asshole online and get pissed off it can ramp up the emotional intensity of play.

I think if you really showed how a game's rules or structure contributed to a certain kind of experience you could do an unbelievably awesome AP post in this style. The PTA posts seem to lean in this direction sometimes. Branching out a little bit, you could even extend that to certain techniques or social contract innovations, whatever. The point I'm trying to make though is that what you have to say should be generalizable in some way and should reflect light on where your experience came from and how other people might manufacture it for themselves. If it's the 7 natural twenties in a row, you can't exactly call that game-driven facilitation, even if the story by itself might be a thing of beauty.

Message 15017#159761

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by Sean
...in which Sean participated
...in Forge Birthday Forum
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 4/8/2005




On 4/8/2005 at 1:03pm, Andy Kitkowski wrote:
RE: New Games Journalism

Dave Panchyk wrote: With an RPG, the rules are right there. Chances are, you're playing with people familiar enough to have already bred contempt.

...

There's got to be a hook. Bringing the unfamiliar to the readership is good enough, but RPG audiences can get familiar with a game by reading it, and want or intend to make their own interesting, creative experiences, not read about those of others.


Of course, the impact of this kind of journalism is most easily felt with new games that many others haven't player before, or new styles of playing, or some poignant experience that happened that was unique to that game, time, event, etc. Doing the above for an average session of D&D 3E, set in Greyhawk, and posting it on the Enworld forums in this format would be a little silly, or would strike most people as nostalgic more than anything.

But when I read the article above, and started to think of my own recent RPG experiences in that light, in just a few seconds I thought of about 4-6 or so events (and their "whammo" lead ins, like the "Bow, Nigger" above (But nothing THAT obviously pulling)) that would have been perfect for that type of journalism. Here's a couple:

Working the Forge Booth: Lead in -> The hustle and bustle of people playing games in the booth
Playing Burning Wheel at a Local Con: Lead in -> Luke standing on a chair, waving his arms and screaming, while roleplayers at other tables turn to us with that "What the f..." look.
Playing With Great Power for the first time with my group: Lead in -> "You...stabbed him... with an umbrella??"
Playing PTA recently with my regular gaming group: Lead in -> "So wait... Francis Bacon built a time machine??" (or describe how Eric, one of the players, suddenly affects a dastardly voice and plays the antagonist)
Going through the process of explaining the TSOY rules to my group: Lead in -> Describing how everyone was intensely looking at their sheets of paper, like they were doing their taxes... and then snapped up and jumped into play. Or lead in with a player rolling dice, and trying to figure out their result for the first time.

You're totally right, there's got to be some discovery in the article to make it work- But here, anyway, we're constantly playing new games, looking at old games in new ways, etc.

-Andy

Message 15017#159767

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by Andy Kitkowski
...in which Andy Kitkowski participated
...in Forge Birthday Forum
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 4/8/2005




On 4/8/2005 at 1:14pm, Rob MacDougall wrote:
RE: New Games Journalism

I'd love to see some more writing in this vein for RPGs. I think there's room for a lot more writing about gaming in general. Not in the Actual Play forum maybe - it has a specific diagnostic purpose. But so many gamers are writers or want to be writers - so where is all the writing about gaming?

Not writing about the content of the games, not game rules writing, not even game theory: I mean this kind of first person memoir style writing about the experience of play, about how gaming fits into one's life, etc.

See also my post on this subject at The 20x20 Room.

Message 15017#159770

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by Rob MacDougall
...in which Rob MacDougall participated
...in Forge Birthday Forum
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 4/8/2005




On 4/8/2005 at 1:15pm, Andy Kitkowski wrote:
RE: New Games Journalism

Sean wrote: The point I'm trying to make though is that what you have to say should be generalizable in some way and should reflect light on where your experience came from and how other people might manufacture it for themselves. If it's the 7 natural twenties in a row, you can't exactly call that game-driven facilitation, even if the story by itself might be a thing of beauty.


Yeah, this should be tattooed on the ass of anyone who tries to write their gaming experiences in this style. You said it more direct and succinct than I was able to in that first sentence: Through the article, setting it up so that others might manufacture a similar experience for themselves... That is the difference between "Actual Play Journalism" and "Look at Me!".

Message 15017#159772

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by Andy Kitkowski
...in which Andy Kitkowski participated
...in Forge Birthday Forum
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 4/8/2005




On 4/8/2005 at 2:01pm, Paul Czege wrote:
RE: New Games Journalism

That is the difference between "Actual Play Journalism" and "Look at Me!".

I completely agree. The trick will be elevating your journalism to the social and mechanical context that produced the experience. Probably we should scrutinize new actual play journalism from that perspective.

Paul

Message 15017#159790

Previous & subsequent topics...
...started by Paul Czege
...in which Paul Czege participated
...in Forge Birthday Forum
...including keyword:

 (leave blank for none)
...from around 4/8/2005