After some recent PM discussions with Phil Reed and at the behest of Ralph Mazza almost a year ago, I'm pulling together my notes, research and experiance on producing a small press card game.

I already know theres some interst here, so those who are: what kind of situations do you want covered? I'm a little strapped for time at the moment, but my chats with Phil has shown me its probably a good idea to get *something* out there. If I know what folks want, I can write those sections up first ^_^

First section anyway is going to be on designing the game for short run production, because that will help a LOT (and I've had to do some major retooling).

So: What issues or suggestions should an article (or series) on small press CCGs cover?

I highly recommend putting together your experience into a PDF and selling it for $10 or so. The tricks you've discovered about -- and actual experience you've had with -- production of card games is valuable. You deserve to be paid for your knowledge. I'd happily drop $10 to get your article(s) in a PDF.

* Collation & Randomization issues
* How to collate for tournament drafting?
* Hand collation vs. automatic collation
* When you order plate changes (to make flavor text for different cards, for instance)
* Different types of packaging and production options
* Prototyping options
* Marketing
* Distribution
* Choosing stock (differences in stock quality in different countries, true playing card stock vs. 14 point C2S)
* Choosing finishes
* choosing card size
* differences in different types of card cutting techniques (different types of equipment like a ram die vs. typical die cutting press)
* overview of the Rollem Slipstream technology
* cellowrap vs. shrinkwrap vs. mylar "foil" wrap
* inserting promo cards
* different deck box configurations (normal, large depth, side-by-side double deck, etc.)
* how to commission art -- does the art come first or the card?
* advantages and hassles of overseas production
* proofing process -- what to look for
* printing contracts -- what to look for
* negotiating with distributors
* marketing your game in magazines
* marketing your game in cons
* online marketing
* making a cost analysis spreadsheet
* methods of generating rarity among collectible cards while cutting costs
* traditional card games vs. CCGs
* licensed art vs. commissioned art
* licensing or sub-licensing your card game mechanics

Our company is going to release our first CCG by year's end it looks like these are the types of things we've had to research.

How much of what you learned could be applied to non-CCG cards (like, say, I was trying to mimick Torg or Everway by supplying a deck to go along with a given rpg?)?

One thing that I consider extremely important to include in such a document is an analysis of the advantages and pitfalls of making a card game collectable vs making it a complete stand alone game with room for later expansions.

Does the same trend that incourages indie-rpgs to be self contained complete games with no line of splat books apply to indie-cards as well?

I know as a personal note that there are many cool sounding CCG games I'd love to try except that they are collectable and I have exactly zero interest in being that dedicated to a single game to have to work that hard just to get the components needed to play.

While I know that the "collector impulse" can be strong, with so many other CCGs already out there is there enough "collector impulse" time and budget to go around for new CCGs?

In other words would prospective new CCG developers be better / equally / or worse served by reenvisioning their game as a stand alone product?

Two points:

1) Yes Lee, I *do* have experiance in overseas printing and production and will cover that (already planning on it!), as well as other issues such as colating, etc.

2) Actually Ralph, my focus will be on customizable systems vs. collectable. Unless you have a couple of thousand to sink into the game, a small press won't be able to *effectively* produce and support a full blown, Collectable Game. Thus, with my focus on Small Press and effective publishing, it'll focus on the customizable aspect, which I'm most familiar with (and is my own preference).

3) Alexander - yea, can cover decks as accesories as well.

Lee- couple points I will clear up right now, because it won't make a lick of difference:

Artwork will mostly be the same as what you know from RPG production with only a couple minor spins.
Marketing will work out the same as well, except for a couple of inherant differences between the two (Repeat buying of CCG vs Single Purchase RPG Core)
Distribution is a little new to myself yet, but for several reasons its more difficult (Re: Collectable vs. Customizable). Retailers are less likely to take a risk on CCGs because of the low margins (and they are rather low) and inabilty to swiftly move.
Marketing, spreadsheets, lisencing, etc are all rather common business elements. Mechanics for CGs are the same for RPGs and lisencing them as well.

Keep in mind I'm talking *Small* press. Overseas printing is best for larger runs, but shorter runs can be done stateside (as I will illustrate ^_^)
And just a *minor* survey - *is* this something you'd be willing to drop a few bucks on?

BTW, for a quick peek into me noggin, I remembered a thread in which I had a pretty decent discussion with some folks on CCGs and RPGs.

http://indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=13593

Portions of this I will be pulling into the document/article/whatever it becomes.

daMoose_Neo wrote: Artwork will mostly be the same as what you know from RPG production with only a couple minor spins.

Veritas Games wrote: For example, which is better, to go to Darkhorse Comics and to license Hellboy artwork or to come up with your own characters and do your own game? Which will cost more? Which will make more sales? How complicated is it to score a license?

Yea, THAT is an entirely different bag of tricks. You're looking at lisencing, IP, etc. From the sounds of things, you're not looking to use HB artwork, you're looking to construct a HellBoy game.
Two things on that:

1) Lisences WILL make you more money than original material in the short term especially. Stores will feel more comfortable seeing a property they recognize and its not a hard sell to the customer. One sentence to the right people - "Yea, its a Hellboy CCG"- and pow! There are things to watch out for, however. Most agreements will have a time limit, at which time the owner can pull the rights to print back, will usually include some kind of clause about them retaining the system in such an event, etc. Not *quite* the same, but do some research on WotC's deal with Nintendo of America over the Pokemon CCG.
With non-lisenced material, especially in the CCG realm, its a hard sell, because you have to introduce the setting, any characters AND the system. But, in the long run, you could really score big if the characters and setting take off.

2) That is DEFINETLY beyond my scope. I've dabbled a *little* with the field, spoke to a company about lisencing the Nightwalker anime for a game and to Alchemy2 about the Teddy Ruxpin property. In the end neither flew (though I have some hope about the TR property)

Out of curiosity, and you don't have to share if you don't want to...

How many decks of your game did you print initially? How many have you sold? Over what period of time?

What type of advertising have you done?

From the sounds of things (especially the other thread regarding cons and advertising), my numbers will be meaningless to you.
First set of the game had about 500 of each of my three decks. From my accounts for tax season I had around $1000 in sales, meaning I sold 125 decks since July.
Advertising has been next to nill, for the reason that most advertising out there would cost me more than my print runs! Cost me around $3600 for the first run of decks, 2016 total, which was broken down to construct the three distinct decks and a whole lot of promotional material. Many ads, for a single run, can cost $1000 plus.
My sales come from face to face events and contact. I host regular game nights at the local WalMart that brings new players in, hosted an event last Halloween, pulled in about twenty sales. Face to face events usually garner me about 10 sales.

See, heres the thing: Final Twilight is a TOTALLY original property, 100%, nothing anyone can identify with unless I say "Harry Potter meets Blade" or lay it all out. You're talking about lisencing, which is a whole new bag of tricks- you have instant product recognition, instant audiance to pull from, cross marketing possibilities. Many times the IP holder will GLADLY plug the product in the comic/magazine, which is free advertising, and store owners will say "Hm. Hellboy game. I'll order a box, that should sell. Final Twilight? What the hell is that?"
Hence why I'm thinking my experiances and my 'tricks of the trade' will be worthless to you- my style of work and my focus for this piece is on building a small press title cost effectively. If you're talking a reletively major lisence, you'll want a larger print run, work with the IP holder on an advertising campaign, and for the love of all you hold holy don't even think about attempting the things I've done. My scale and yours are two different creatures.

Thanks for the feedback. If you put out your article, I may well buy a copy to support the cause.

Cheers,

Nate, your preview cards for characters on your site are dead links. As are some of your rulebook and FAQ links.

You may want to fix that.

And there's a thread over on RPGNow of another CCG neophyte trying to startup. I think your guide could have real demand.

Poo. I thought I had the site hammered out.

And trust me, I imagine it is! Part of the desire to write the 'guide' comes from seeing all these folks, mostly kids actually, wanting to do something like this.
Pressed for time at the moment as I said. Two major products wrapping up, one I hope will take Twilight into more mainstream settings than the indie-fanboy sector. But, I'm what I'd say is halfway through, not too big a document but its got some nice tips on writing and designing the game for small press and getting artists already, onto printing and marketing ^_^

Actually, Nate. About 3/4 of the links on your site are broken. You should really look into it.

Cheers.