For a great many months, I've been spying on the various helpful posts in this forum, and this late evening, I've finally decided to get "out there" with some of my thoughts, specifically about my own issues with my game's design.

My first issue deals with a product's name. Do you think a game's title necessarily has to describe it? Examples that come to mind would be Dawnforge or Dungeons and Dragons, and if you'd never heard of either, you still may have an idea about the game inside. The converse would be games like Amber or Conan, which I suppose would require a bit of name recognition and familiarity with the source material.

My second issue is another basic one, which deals with fleshing out my game's concept (obviously, this is quite specific, but I suppose any help that could be given may be valuable to other designers). It's a fantasy-esque setting (minus those pesky cliché token/Tolkien races), taking place in the "ancient" or "classical" equivalent in this world's history (think: ancient egypt, sumeria, babylon, rome, greece, and the like rolled into one), with a high emphasis on adventure. The idea is that the exploits and actions of heroes can shape the very history—and destiny—of the world.

I'm wondering if my "working concept" (which I imagine will end up as the back cover text of the final product) reflects the above notions. Here's a copy of what I have thus far:

LONG CONCEPT

In a time and place where legends are born and myths are made, things like destiny and fate have yet to be conceived. Diverse and exotic cultures evolved from the raw pallettes of Cian strive for dominance, servants of patron gods wielding metal and magic in defense of inherent truths. A wealth of races and societies clash and combine in the vestiges of the Ancients, forging fledgling empires and forcing feudal rifts between friend and foe alike. But in this land without precedent, where history has yet to be written, there is only one question . . .

What will be your legacy in this new world?

The world of Cian is yours to shape.

Seven unique races inhabit the known regions, each with richly detailed concepts and stories. Choose from the esoteric Ealosith, ambitious Humans, cunning Lasserteen, sagacious Mosozeenugaabu, secretive Qemen, honorable Ruari, or energetic ShashiAlil. Whose kingdom will the ages remember? Whose will be forgotten?

Epic tales unlike any ever imagined can be fully realized in this vividly described setting. From the scalding heat of the Maghana Wastelands to the jagged peaks of the Ab Araqan Mountains to the lush rainforests of the Renan River Valley, this living, breathing reality allows for infinite possibilities.

Whose story will you tell?

The humble student of Nyara do Tikwa, attempting to unite the tribes of the ŋashya dayo? The skilled Afad thief, retrieving the shards of Arbua to bring about the Holy Return of Arda? The brash soldier for New Auctonia, fervently struggling to topple the dynasty of the Şha? The enigmatic priestess of Luxia, on a quest to find the Deliverer of prophecy?

From dramatic, sprawling sagas to modest character explorations, from swashbuckling adventures to political intrigues, from sweeping romances to classic battles between good and evil, anything is possible in Cian.

Your chronicle awaits.

SHORT CONCEPT

Imagine a cohesive alternate realm, a continent of diverse terrains, with seven extraordinarily detailed races and cultures, each with unique societies. Imagine a world of possibility and adventure, heroic campaigns, and epic legends, where history will be written by you. Imagine the infinite, and you will be here: Cian. Your chronicle awaits.

I suspect that this thread will move to Publishing when Ron notices it.

The idea is that the exploits and actions of heroes can shape the very history—and destiny—of the world.

LONG CONCEPT...

I mean, what is important in that concept isn't the world, but your empowerment over it, right?

Finally, I am not so sure that Cian is a good title for what you preent as a Mediterranean-flavoured fantasy world;

Now, regarding titles; are you asking for people to compare their experiences with name-recognition against easily interpreted titles? That might be a good topic for a separate thread.

Hi Anthony,

I have bad news for you ... no one can tell you what your title "will" do. Will it turn people on? Will it make them shudder and fling the book away? Will it inspire sales? Will it convey all manner of information about the game's subject and how it's played?

This is the same problem that faces anyone who produced a titled work of entertainment (or in the case of RPGs, titled works for entertainment activities). And guess what? It's always going to be a crapshoot.

For instance, I could tell you that as soon as I saw the word "Cian" in your thread title, I said, "Wow! What a name! What is that? I must see it!"

Or maybe I was lying. Maybe I really said, "Oh shit, another stupid weird one-word title that doesn't tell me a thing. I bet this sucks."

My point is that, if either were the case, it would serve you absolutely no purpose whatsoever to tell you. None. Even if you polled 9000 people for such responses, the information would be worthless. And as you expended all that energy to run the poll, and subsequently infinitely more energy attempting to apply its results, ... well, that's a whole bucketload of energy you're not spending on game development.

One of the most useful concepts in creative development is the "working title." You just pick a name for the project, and get busy with the development itself. See? You've named the project, but not the product. This is very common for novels, movies, and many other creative endeavors that involve a lot of labor and represent a lot of financial risk.

The working title may or may not turn out to be the real title. I'm given to understand that "The Brother From Another Planet" was the working title for one of my favorite movies, coined as a joke because they couldn't come up with a "good" title right away, but then they got used to it and realized it was a pretty good title after all. Other times, the working title gets junked at some point, and it's painless because it was never a serious candidate as a title anyway.

So, I can give you no advice about the title itself, but I can give you advice about how to deal with the title: Cian is your working title. Keep it 'til it seems obsolete. Otherwise, go with it and get goin' on the game itself.

Best,
Ron

killacozzy wrote: I simply want the time and place of the setting to have a sense of importance.

I've always thought that a game needs to have some sort of central "focus", that is, an overall arc that gives the story itself a direction. When the game itself has a conflict or other such drive to it, players are joining in on a tale already in progress, and just contributing their adventures to the whole.

Examples: In Vampire: The Masquerade, there's tales of an oncoming apocalypse (Gehenna, if I recall correctly), so players can point their campaigns towards that event. In Star Wars, there's that ongoing war between Empire and Rebellion/New Republic that players can join in on.

Originally, I had this "Union of States" that was trying to take over the land, but once I conceptualized my diverse races and cultures (diversity being something that I deemed far more important than a unified "bad guy"), this "Union" was relegated to a subplot, then scrapped all together. I guess at this point, I'm just struggling with my setting and races and cultures—my world—and I'm trying to find an overall arc to give it significance.

The latest I'm toying with to give this game cohesion is the idea of playing in a world of ancient times with limited history. I figured this would give the sense that the heroics of characters would be the legends for future ages, but I suppose this is really no different from any other fantasy game.

I'm just stuck with my five unswayable ideas, those being such:
1) several playable races, each with its own distinct culture and separate territory, much like ancient times, with somewhat isolated kingdoms and no sense of global/universal unity....
2) a relatively small "known" world where there is tons to explore.... even if the entire "known" continent/plane/planet/universe has been settled/colonized/explored, this world has the possibility of expansion..... new races.... new places.... exploration of the unknown or long forgotten is key... that sense of wonder is ever-present....
3) in this world, there is no good or evil, just the perception of the parties involved.... i don't want good guys or bad guys, i want an unlimited amount of perspective to dictate morality, thus allowing a broad amount of playability (i believe, after all, that evil is a myth, as even the satanist has a set of moral codes—they just differ from thsoe of us "normal" folk)
4) the broad landscape is a continuous continent/plane/universe where territories can overlap realistically, as such disputes drive the concepts of several races
5) there is no high-tech (lasers, spaceships), though there could be relatively primitive high-magic ("energy" wands with limited power, crystal-powered protection units)


As far as most things go, the GAME itself is not innovative, just like the STORY of Dune is unoriginal. What makes my game wonderful, like Dune, is the rich setting, interesting characters (races), and weird and unique elements involved. Problem is: In order to get someone involved in the setting, and the game itself, is to come up with some kind of "hook". This is what I've tried, and I've, alas, come up with nothing good.

I just don't know where to go with it now.


And Ron, thanks for the unfortunate answer that there is no answer. I was really hoping y'all would name the project for me. ;-)

You might want to take a look at Code of Unaris, which has a rich setting as well as a system that highlights its unique features.

Also, if you're really only concerned with the setting, have you thought about using an existing rules-set for it? d20 is the big one, but there's also FUDGE (and FATE), Fuzion, and others. Basically, don't reinvent the wheel unless you have a good reason. (If you're designing the system just for practice, that's a good reason too.) If you start looking at, say, d20, and keep finding places where you go "There's no way d20 can do this thing that's vital for my setting," then those are the important differences.

This forum is a little biased towards suggesting that people make up their own systems. :)

The main reason I haven't just made this another d20 setting or used another system is because I don't want this to be a campaign setting for Dungeons & Dragons. I want it to be it's own game that requires no prior knowledge of any other systems.

Besides, d20 sucks for the most part.

I have my own simple system that involves d6s, and uses one main mechanic throughout. It favors description of traits over numerical ratings (much like FUDGE). I just feel that my adventure setting is the actual game, while the "roll-playing" is just how you deal with task resolution. It's important, but not nearly as important.


Although, I think of the d20 Star Wars game and don't consider it just a campaign setting for D&D. Thoughts on the legitimacy of d20?

What about DESTINY? Perhaps players define, amongst relatively less significant Objectives, a specific Destiny that they will achieve. Maybe this Destiny is given by an oracle or the game master. This would be up to the players. Once in play, the stories are driven by the lesser Objectives, and by that overall sense of preordination. The struggle within the game is to approach this fate without hubris or arrogance. It would be a game of Destiny versus the temptation of Pride. Destiny would act as a means to track character advancement ("LEVELS", if you will), but any negative Pride would detract from the ultimate realization of this Destiny.

In a time and place where legends are born and history is written, heroes must rise to meet their destinies. Countless exotic cultures push to achieve their diverse and biased goals against the ever-expanding boundaries of the known world. But in this land of ambiguous fates, where the future in so uncertain, there lies only one question . . .

What will be your legacy?

Killa, I can tell you I was into your long concept right until here:

The humble student of Nyara do Tikwa, attempting to unite the tribes of the ŋashya dayo? The skilled Afad thief, retrieving the shards of Arbua to bring about the Holy Return of Arda? The brash soldier for New Auctonia, fervently struggling to topple the dynasty of the Şha? The enigmatic priestess of Luxia, on a quest to find the Deliverer of prophecy?

From dramatic, sprawling sagas to modest character explorations, from swashbuckling adventures to political intrigues, from sweeping romances to classic battles between good and evil, anything is possible in Cian.

I can't say anything better than Mike Holmes did.

Mike's Standard Rant #7

-Eric

edit: All of Mike's standard rants are quality reading. I highly reccomend them for any aspiring game designer.