Sparked by the What is Main Stream gaming? Another Look. thread, I started wondering if the content is the only issue, or even the main one. Perhaps it's more a matter of product placement? An amazing product in the wrong place won't sell, after all. D&D used to be packaged in toy stores (it might still be, for all I know). White Wolf games sat on the shelf in the big-name bookstores at one point.

Now, I'm not suggesting that indie games can do the same (getting your product onto the shelves of Toys R Us or Barnes & Noble is probably beyond the range of us indies), but maybe selective points of sale could gain the interest of non-gamers. Let's say you've got an awesome game about deep-sea fishing. So you package that game in local sporting goods stores and the like. Does that sound like it would be viable to anyone? (The concept, not the fishing RPG.)

Do you think that there are lots of people who shop at fishing stores that are ready to pick up a pen & paper RPG? I don't, but then, what do I know.

If you're talking product placement then why not start at the beginning? How many indie games have any placement in the common gamer store? So far, I've found one regular ol' gamer shop that had any indie stuff in it, and that was this really great place in downtown St Paul, MN. I can't for the life of me remember what the name of the place was. But, the important bit is, this is the only place I've found that had anything indie (they had the Monster Burner), and there was no display to it at all. (it was sitting face down, crooked on a shelf in the back)

If indie gamers want to go 'mainstream' by way of product placement, then they need to put their goods where those mainstream gamers are shopping right? Well, hell, I'd say that the best way to do that is to find some of those mainstream gamer stops (game shops, comic shops, etc), then sit and chat with the owners, managers, and counter people about their game. Get those people excited about it. Then, talk them into keeping copies of the indie game on the counter next to the register. That way, the right people will see it and maybe ask "What's that?", to which one would hope that the person on the other side of the counter could give an interesting response to, potentially prompting a sale.

Would that bring an indie game into the mainstream? I dunno. But I think it'd be more reasonable to start in game shops where game speak is fluent than to get your title lost on the racks of some major chain like BN.

-Eric

Eric,

Except that if we are talking about getting RPGs into the mainstream then we aren't talking about the "mainstream" gamer crowd. We're talking about the mainstream of society. Mainstream society goes into fishing shops all the time... to look at and buy things to do with fishing. So, why wouldn't a fishing enthusiast see a game about fishing and not pick it up? They pick up those really annoying singing fish all the time. Mainstream society isn't walking into game shops therefore putting Indie games on those shelves isn't going to make the game accessible to the mainstream.

How many times can I use "mainstream" in a paragraph?

Oh, whoops. Sorry. Heh. I promise to pay more attention next time.

-Eric

p.s. mainstreammainstreammainstream

I've often wondered this in particular about Kayfabe and the other wrestling RPGs out there. A lot of wrestling fans seem like the type who could totally get up for the right kind of RPG, especially if it's quick, fun, not too hard to pick up, well explained, that sort of thing.

What you'd probably have to do for that is figure out where WWF/WCW etc. fans go to buy wrestling paraphernalia. This might mean working out a deal with one of the leagues, which would make it not-indie. OTOH if you could get even 50 cents a copy for impulse purchases at a big wrestling event and keep that deal for even a year, I think you'd be talking a middle-class income right there.

I think a similar model would probably hold for other games. Dogs in the Vineyard by way of LDS Temple bookstores, for example. Vampire games in stores that sell goth gear maybe.

To do it right though you want really great non-gamer explanations, manageable mechanics, and really, really high production values, all at an impulse-buy pricepoint. Not impossible but a real challenge.

Sean wrote: Dogs in the Vineyard by way of LDS Temple bookstores, for example.

Well, maybe Matt can chime in, but apparently somebody beat him to the endorsements from pro-wrestling, which could have lead to a lot of promotion.

As for product placement, well, many Indie games sell only direct. They're cutting out all of the middlemen, mainstream or no. For those who are in distribution of some sort, it's hard enough apparently for Key20 to sell to the FLGS, let alone any other venue.

Dav Harnish always pointed out how he'd managed to bamboozle some of the major book retailers to carry their product, OTOH. So maybe it can be done. Sound largely like a question of the seller's hustle.

Mike

Mike Holmes wrote: Dav Harnish always pointed out how he'd managed to bamboozle some of the major book retailers to carry their product, OTOH.

Technocrat13 wrote: Do you think that there are lots of people who shop at fishing stores that are ready to pick up a pen & paper RPG? I don't, but then, what do I know.