Hi everyone,

Am fairly new here, but I suppose I wouldn't be browsing these forums if I wasn't trying to write a damn RPG like everyone else. In any case, I will give a (hopefully) very brief description before moving onto my problem questions.

Seven Worlds (generic name, working title, long story), is a sci-fi setting and game with an emphasis on a pantheistic religious system, which empowers technology through religious magic (theurgy). Settings are a dime a dozen, so I'll spare the exposition, even though it is central to the concept in every way (I don't normally play setting-less games - System+Setting=Cool IMHO). In any case this game is more or less pitched with strong gamist/simulationist elements, for individual or group play, and the system I have written thus far to be rules intensive, gritty and with a high rate of mortality for combat. And for aesthetic reasons I am using 2d12, 'cause I like the dice and they make a satisfying clack when they're rolled together....

In any case, the viciousness of actual combat I am writing into it, from a gamist perspective, from the point of view that "realistic" (note the quotation marks) combat puts a much greater risk into fighting, and encourages non-violent strategies in gameplay. This increased risk means that the gamist reward of violent accomplishment is much more satisfying to the players, and in my opinion, heightens the drama.

The problem of course is that it makes combat extremely difficult when it does occur, and dice rolls can cause rapid death with concomitant player misery and frustration. Now the most common way I have seen of getting around this terrible problem, even with relatively non-mortal combat systems, is by the use of Fate Points, or somesuch, which can spare a character from death a limited number of times.

Now, one of the themes of 7W is that characters represent mythic heroes in an unfolding and largely undefined storyline. As such, the PCs represent individuals who do not get cut down in the line of fire, but who pull off spectacular feats because they are fated to do so. Now, the mechanics that I have developed thus far are a little complex, and perhaps unweildy, but I'll explain em so I can get to my point.

Firstly - all characters have a general level of 'karma', broken down into fortune and protection. There are negative traits for these as well (calamity and jeopardy). These are minor modifiers applied to most dice rolls when the character relies on pure chance (lucky dip, whatever), or when his life is in danger (combat, obviously). These ratings are constantly modified during gameplay due to charms, blessings, curses, talismans etc. and the effects they give are relatively minor, however they are consistently employed.

Secondly - some characters have access to 'Sanctions', which are interventions by their patron deity in reality to alter chances. These are greater in effect, but limited in number. A Sanction can overpower an enemy miracle, mysteriously deflect a laser beam, catch the bullet on your pocket bible, etc. but regardless they represent a deity intervening on the PCs behalf and as such are largely at the discretion of the GM for use. The effects are not massive (a la - God does not appear before you), but should change the course of a conflict drastically.

Thirdly, and trickiest - is a quality that I have invented called 'Chandrakur'. In any case this is a character's Free Will being able to command fate and chance. The rationale is complicated and doesn't need to be explained, but what it means is that characters can influence fate directly for their own choosing through Intercessions. Moreso, the effects, while not spectacular, are much more malleable than the other effects - a neutral individual may help the PC even though it goes against his interests, an enemy's weapon may misfire, etc etc etc... but overall the idea is that people who have great Chandrakur make history. They can get people to agree with them, or influence whatever conflict they embark on for no reason except fate is going their way because they make it go their way. Obviously, this ability, specifically Intercessions, are limited in number, in fact are quite small. However, it can increase through character development.

The way these variables are determined at character creation comes down to player choice however - through the selection of the Character Role. This is critically important. This does not decide the ultimate destiny of the character (for we have no idea, and trying to predict future events in gameplay and guide players towards them is both pointless and difficult), but it does give the player some idea of how their character may fit into the overall scheme. For instance, The Champion role is the character with lots of karma and a few sanctions, but not one who will influence his own destiny personally (i.e. low Chandrakur and no Intercessions). The Cursed role is a character who is fighting fate with his or her Chandrakur because they have very low (negative) karma and are generally picked on by the Gods. The Devoted Pawn has lots of sanctions and karma but no Chandrakur because they have given their free will over to higher powers.... and so on.

Now, the Narrativists out there may be wondering why such an exotic system exists for what I see as basically narrative control on the part of the players, even if it is only through the medium of a large (and at the moment, cumbersome) system. Intercessions can make NPCs change their minds, and can potentially dictate setting elements that are as yet undescribed. The reason for this mechanic is that the game I am designing uses the heavy crunch systems that myself and my gaming group like using, perhaps because we are gamists at heart with history degrees (such a terrible combination....).

Now, I am not a master of the GNS subtleties, even less so the subtleties of the remainder of the terminology, and have more or less guided the design process by instinct up until now when I realise that two modes of gameplay are in contact and the system can decide which way it goes - the gamist fortune elements that reward characters based upon their ability to risk high stakes (in this case, combat), and a narrative constraint that lowers the stakes a little but allows for greater drama.

Basically, the fate system is a balance to deadliness in the game, perhaps at the risk of making the game non-threatening. Obviously, fate is of limited use, but getting the two balanced is a tricky task. How to have fate as an ace in the sleeve while preserving player challenges?

OK, so now the more direct questions: such a system could go either way, and I have thought of writing two systems to allow for GM and player preference, for 'drift' of the gameplay style. Is that a realistic task?

Does anyone else know some effective systems for Fate mechanics, which are used in the same way in other games (I am thinking of Warhammer FRPG, but in RM supplements it crops up - both superficially and unsatisfyingly to me though, but I am sure that legions of writers have used it before)?

Is the three seperation of Fate necessary? I am trying to tidy things up, and I like lots of detail (thats the sort of group I play for), but is it, in this case, uneccesary?

How should Chandrakur as a developmental trait be increased? Through crunch-heavy, conflict success mechanics (eg. xp) which would lead to increasing returns and a rapid escalation of power (probably not a good idea) or through dramatic events? The latter option I prefer, but how to reward players for drama is difficult and abitrary, dependent on GM fiat, which is one thing I am trying to avoid. Does anyone have an idea for rewarding drama consistently?

And a general ' what are your thoughts? Specifically with the Character Roles?

Now, if I have been inspecific on any points, or have broken any of the thread-writing tips of this forum, or worse yet, if there is a more pertinent thread that can answer some of these questions, then please direct me pronto.

Thanks for your potential advice,
Justin

Heya,

Okay, so let me make sure I know your essential questions. First you ask:

Does anyone else know some effective systems for Fate mechanics, which are used in the same way in other games (I am thinking of Warhammer FRPG, but in RM supplements it crops up - both superficially and unsatisfyingly to me though, but I am sure that legions of writers have used it before)?

Is the three seperation of Fate necessary? I am trying to tidy things up, and I like lots of detail (thats the sort of group I play for), but is it, in this case, uneccesary?

How should Chandrakur as a developmental trait be increased? Through crunch-heavy, conflict success mechanics (eg. xp) which would lead to increasing returns and a rapid escalation of power (probably not a good idea) or through dramatic events?

The latter option I prefer, but how to reward players for drama is difficult and abitrary, dependent on GM fiat, which is one thing I am trying to avoid. Does anyone have an idea for rewarding drama consistently?

And a general ' what are your thoughts? Specifically with the Character Roles?

Justin Marx wrote: Is the three seperation of Fate necessary? I am trying to tidy things up, and I like lots of detail (thats the sort of group I play for), but is it, in this case, uneccesary?

PlotDevice wrote:
OK, the issue I am guessing is one of conflicting goals in the design.
(1) you want detail on fate
(2) you want characters to save their butts in combat
(3) you do not want to have the focus on fate being 'save me in combat'

PlotDevice wrote: So I would recommend making the 'save me in combat' very expensive in fate tokens (or whatever), but non combat actions and abilities very cheap in fate tokens.

Next, maybe having the different kinds of fate having difference currency for abilities/ action types: Karma can help best with social interaction, Sanctions with spiritual, and personal with physical, but give a scale for buying from one area to another...