Hello.

Well I have ghosted this site for the past year, wating, watching, thinking...thinking on the subject of how to introduce myself and my game. So this thred marks the first time I have publically presented Blood Bounty.

Blood Bounty has come from the minds of three indi-freeks who have spent the past 11 years designing and play testing the game. The game has never been shopped around or printed in professional book format, but it has gone through 3 addtions, and now is close to being finished in its 4th addition format.

this addtion we will publish. How? prolly POD, but that i dont know, alls i know is i spend over 4 hours a day typeing the rules, creating the art, and play-testing the damn thing.

we have a wonderful group of about 15 people who come in and out of the table-group (since this style of game allows free-floating-players to come and go) and are offically additced to the gaem (three players have Blood bounty tatoos already, and one more is getting his soon).

i will be posting much about the game in this thred. i wont be spending space, time or energy into posting multible threds, pissing people off left n right or jumping around. (i will possibly post in the 'actual game play' forum, but thats it)

this post is not ment to get indepth to the game...but its here to introduce me and my crew who have spent the past decade making this game to feed our desires in what we wished to always see in a game.

the game is ultra violent, often comical in content and rated 'R' for now. the game is competitive, and usually kills players, npcs and mosters in quicker rates then most games...but that will be explained.

alls i ask, is you allow me this thred, allow me an open minded eye, and allow me the freedom to post about the adventure of making this game....we promise, its gunna be published, and its gunna be diffrent and worth a play or two (but usually our players beg for a session like crack rock)

i know..you have heard all this before..and hey, you might be right in your rolling of eyes....but please....trust me...ive dedicated over 10 years to making this game with my crew of designers..and we re-made it 4 times just to make it feel "perfect" to the eye and to play...

the game will be about 250-pages (200 pages are already done and the game is fully playable now, i assume 250 just to be safe).

all the art is done by me and 3 others who are very talented in the feild of inks, paints, n computer art...

and the game is just plain psycho-fun for that small nitch market of players who we know will enjoy the game.

thats all ill type for now....forgive the typos and errors in spelling, lucky for me i am not the editor of the book (thats a kid named Ferg)

Peace...

Hi there, and welcome. I'll look forward to learning about the game, because frankly, Blood Bounty sounds just about like what I want to play right now.

You won't see much eye-rolling here. The  goals of play you want to promote are just fine by most people here. If you want some solid feedback, maybe some playing and some comments about that, and some help with information about publishing, then you're in the right place.

If you do just a little editing on your posts, no need for perfection, then more people will read them with better care.

Best,
Ron

Hi...again.

good advice..the whole "I should edit my posts a little" thing...i will do my best.

So back to BB. Blood bounty started off (like ive mentioned) over a decade ago...it started as a board game, a quick little lawless thing to pass the night when a few friends were hanging out. from there it grew slowly into a table-top since we all been hardcore D&D-ing for "oh god" who knows how long...

Then i met "Ferg", a chubby number-freek who shared the love of gameing...together we designed our first rule's matrix for BB, nd we had a ball putting meat into the game...that was called Blood-bounty-3k (im sure it had alot to do with my love for MST3K at the time). Ferg was very good at keeping things very balenced, and brought to my attention the work that was involved with such a task as creating a universe, and rules to control it...

years went by, we made more changes...the third addition was made becuase we thought our game was good, but not great. the third addition was huge...4 books, (Galaxy runner's guid 'GM'. a monster's phylum, a player's book 'FCO guide', and a Galactic Market 'items n gear')

these 4 books were hand written and drawn...we copied about 10 sets at Ferg's work, and played for about 6 years before deciding it was time for the fourth addition....

the third addition left me feeling we needed the following.
1- faster rules with less math...(ferg loved math, i feel alot of people hate it)
2-full detailed rules and story (yes we all had rules and knew the story but alot of it was common understanding to to players, and never found itself to reach paper in a fully detailed manner.)
3- numbers had to be cut down...meaning we made all 1000s into 100s, all 100s into 10s, etc..that was a huge job, it ment remaking the entire game...not just tweeking it....hence 4th addition.

Anyway..i thought id share the classes "known as styles". there are quite a few, since like ive mentioned, death happens alot.

Guttersnipe (galactic thief or con-man)
Blackmarketeer (crime boss)
Vigilante (street fighter)
Voodooer (space version of a shamen or witch doctor)
Magi (three forms, Vodox, tech-mage and elementalist)
Hit-man (mixture of fighter and criminal)
Space-ninja (great class, mystical and deadly with handhelds)
Desk-jock (legal man who controls contracts and law)
Chop-doctor (augmentation and body-work...medical)
Fanatic (follower of one of the two gods...Lorn or Rhackma)
AWOL (military agent, escaped)
Assassin (class that is all classes...hardest style to obtain)
Proto-cop (home grown clone)
Inquisitor (hunter of the mystical)
Big-game hunter (beast master)

all styles come with 30-50 skills that only that class can have, and are also allowed to choose from "general skills" as well.

Ill type more soon.

Peace.

ps- no player has ever lasted over 8 game runs in BB....the second longest runner lasted 6. And thats a LONG time. 8 sessions!? wow...
alot of gamers who hear about BB. and hear that your life-span prolly wont be over 1-4 games, usually think its a problem with the game's matrix...but no..its not. and it is one of the main reasons most people who play our game with us always come back for more.....ultra violent, and rated R.

thanks for allowing me to type.

peace.

cut n paste from general market...

Personal satellite.
A personal satellite is a huge investment for any Up-stake citizen. Even at base level, with little in the way of stock upgrades, a satellite can cost an incredible amount of Cred. A base Satellite, without bells and whistles will orbit a planet or stay stationary over one location for as long as the owner wishes. The satellite can hold unlimited data as well as send the data wirelessly to any satellite uplink located below.
A basic personal satellite is normally 10x10x10ft and comes equipped with the following
Local Broadcasting.
A broadcasting unit used to send signals to the planet below (a satellite uplink is needed to broadcast information to the satellite from the ground).
PPS.
A Palsic positioning system used to navigate the satellite around the planet’s orbit. These engines are not FTL, nor do they allow interplanetary travel. But they do allow the satellite to maneuver safely around the planet’s orbit quickly.
VSS-3. Security system.
All satellites must have a VSS-3 protecting its entire system to insure proper control and authorized permission to access the satellite’s operation systems.
Body: 65
Fortitude: 1
Field armor: 5
The base price of a Satellite without any upgrades costs 200,000c.

The satellite can also be upgraded at an extra charge with the following stock options if the owner wishes to pay the price shown.
VSS broadcast unit. (100,000c)
A VSS satellite broadcast unit can give a VSS system to any location as long as it is within the Satellite’s reach. The location must have a satellite uplink and 10,000c worth of new system work installed to run the VSS-3. The Satellite can broadcast its VSS-3 to as many locations as per requirements met.
Surface Cam. (25,000c each)
This upgrade allows One optical eye (per purchase) that can visually search the planet’s surface. This optical eye has enough zoom ability to read a book from space, or determine physical details of a common insect. The eye is limited to line-of-sight vision, and may take time to position itself correctly to search areas around the planet.
System link (10,000c)
This link allows the satellite to communicate with other satellites within the solar system effortlessly and in real time. This link will allow one surface Uplink to communicate to all satellites within the solar system connected by such a link, as long as one satellite is within orbit of the uplink.
Galactic link (55,000c)
This link allows the satellite to communicate with other satellites within the galaxy effortlessly and in real time. This link will allow one surface Uplink to communicate to all satellites within the galaxy connected by such a link, as long as one satellite is within orbit of the uplink.
High density Signal (100,000c)
This signal amplifier allows transmission or scanning through uniore of any thickness, and through blast-proof of up to 5inches thick. This will also transmit through scan-out with no trouble. Misuse of such scanning ability can result in prison time.
Living quarter (10,000c)
A living quarter is small but comfortable (5x5x8), fully stable and environmentally safe for life forms to exist within. The owner of the satellite can purchase as many living quarters as desired or purchase larger quarters by combining quarters and multiplying the price per space being purchased. If the owner wishes to enter, or dock with the satellite, a docking bay must be purchased.
Docking bay (15,000c)
A docking bay comes complete with an air-locking system that extends to connect to any ship docking with the satellite. Docking typically takes 5-10 minutes to complete. Once docked, the crew of the ship is free to safely enter the satellite through the airlock.
Repair system (50,000c)
This system holds dozens of E-bots that activate to repair the satellite of any and all damage as long as the body structure has not been reduced to “0”. The bots can repair 1 point of damage per hour and once finished they return to there holding places within the satellite’s hull. These bots can only repair physical body damage of the satellite and can’t repair complicated systems such as VSS programs or repair destroyed technology.
FTL positioning. (150,000c)
These small FTL engines are enough to get the satellite positioned anywhere within the planet’s orbit without taking a round to do so. The engines do not allow the satellite to leave orbit or travel across interplanetary space, but they do allow almost instant relocation of the satellite within the planet’s orbit.
Fortitude upgrade. (100,000c per point)
Per point of fortitude purchased, the satellite gains +1 fortitude. It is legal for any space vehicle to have a limit of fortitude 10, anything higher would be a federal offence.
Body upgrade. (10,000c per point)
Per point of body purchased, the satellite gains a +1 to its body structure. The satellite can have any number of structure points that the user is willing to purchase.
Field-armor upgrade. (25,000c per point)
Per point of field armor upgrade purchased, the armor field of the satellite gains a +1 to its armor field. The user is legally allowed a limit of 10 points. Any higher and federal charges may be filed.
Mounted weapon system. (500,000c per cannon)
A satellite is allowed up to three mounted cannon blasters that can fire on other crafts (or at targets on the surface of the planet if a surface cam is owned). The cannons take one round to fire and one round to recharge, allowing one cannon to fire no more then every other round. The cannons can fire simultaneously or individually in any order as long as recharge time is allowed.
The satellite can protect itself automatically without guidance but will not fire on Federal or UPD targets. The cannons can also be manually targeted at any target with the user’s command as long as the user has communication with the satellite.
Mounted cannons have a +10 to hit, and deal 1d20 damage.

To launch a satellite into orbit, the user must pay a fee of 10,000c, or manually tow it into space with a ship that is capable of towing heavy cargo. The satellite has free right to orbit and function within the limits of the law once purchased. If any laws are broken through the use of the satellite, the satellite will be immediately confiscated, deactivated or destroyed by Federal Enforcers of the law.
Permit: Riot
Price: (base) 200,000c

and here are some of the Desk-jock's skills, cut from the Desk-jock-style section. I know without a basic understanding of the rules or the game's story, alot of these skills seem "weird" or impossible to understand....but im just throwing in chunks of info from the game.

the Desk-jock is, by far, my personal Fav of all styles to play...its not a combat intensive style, but the desk-jock is the only class that can start the game with alot of money (credit), and i personally love the styles that allow alot of non-combat use of skills (desk jock, Chop doc, Voodooer)

heres most of the Desk-jock's skills. (perhaps you can even figure out some of BB's key rules or story elements through this)

Desk jock.

1.
Legal attorney.
*/max5.
The desk jock can roll a modified skill roll vs. dropping one legal charge per roll of crime (see below).
If the desk jock is successful, the charge is dropped from the trial due to the desk jock defending the defendant in a legal trial.
The desk jock can roll only once per charge.

UPD: 1d4.
FED: 1d6.

2.
Pay raise.
1d8/max7
This skill allows the Desk jock’s agency to double the pay of one legal FCO contract per target per month. The desk jock rolls per target, if successful the contract will pay the target double. This extra pay is due to the desk jock’s agency footing the bill in hopes to secure better treatment for their FCO, and better performance on the field.

Failed roll results in failure to secure double pay for target.

3.
Corporation.
1d12/max11.
The desk jock can form and run a corporation that earns credit per month. The desk jock needs to place an amount of credit down to form the corporation the desk jock then makes a skill roll per month vs. doubling the money that was placed down.

If one thousand credits have been invested, then a successful roll will cause a one thousand credit return on a successful roll.

The player can place and remove credit freely from this placed credit. But the skill only doubles credit that is placed into the corporate account.

Any natural skill rolls of 1, result in losing all credit involved in the corporation (credit placed down) due to a horrific business deal.

4.
Job refusal.
1d6/max5.
This skill allows the desk jock to work a deal with all agency’s involved with a mission that the desk jock is currently on. The desk jock can have any his agency convince all involved that a FCO will not be hired for the certain job.
The desk jock must be on the mission, or be on the contract ready to enter. The desk jock can attempt this skill once per agency, stopping a maximum of one FCO per player at any game.

Failed roll results in agency refusing to effect that player’s agency for that month.

5.
Full pay.
1d4/max4
This skill gives the player the chance to earn full pay no matter the phase of the mission he or she enters. This can be used on any legal FCO joining the mission. Each FCO gets once chance at this benefit, if fail, the target gets normal pay as seen by his entrance phase.

6.
Wholesale.
1d10/max9.
One who has a corporation skill, a business skill, or mass marketing can only own this skill. Those who do not own one or more of these skills, are not allowed this skill.

The wholesale skill allows the desk jock to roll vs. buying any legal items or properties at half price. This only works on business deals between legal vendors, and wont force personal or criminal prices to reduce.

Any item purchased in this manner can not be sold back to the market but can be sold personally by the desk jock to who ever pays the desired price.

The desk jock gets a skill roll vs. purchasing the said property or item type, if fail the price can’t be reduced that month. If multiple items or properties are being purchased, the desk jock roles per item.

7
Permits.
3 slots.
The desk jock gets issued the following permits for free. All permits are issued through to FCO’s agency.

Hunter permit.
Riot permit.
Minor bolt permit.
Galaxy passes to all participating galaxies.

The permits are fully legal and can be revoked as normal.

8.
Soft time.
1d6/max5.
This skill allows target safe time in prison. The target is kept away from general inmates and under full protection at all times. One roll will keep the criminal safe for an entire sentence (10 years).

Can be rolled per sentence of any target going to jail. This does not prevent charges, or the death penalty.

9.
Witness protection.
1d10/max9.
The desk jock can earn a free identity change as seen in the black market with a few differences.
*Target is filed Federally as a protected individual and a federal or criminal back ground check will show the true identity of target.
*The target is still legally restricted by any and all convictions of the past. Permits, status etc can not break these restrictions.

The target is officially filed as dead and all property and credit is passed to the new identity.

Desk jock can attempt this once per target, once per month.

10.
Penalty negotiation.
1 slot.
The desk jock can remove any and all negatives from an FCO’s record for leaving or failing a mission. This will remove all the marks, pay-cuts and game runs lost due to failure or leaving the mission early.

11.
Collateral insurance.
1d6/max5.
This allows the desk jock to work out a deal with his agency. If successful, the desk jock’s agency will cover any and all damage costs of mission. This causes any damage clause to become unlimited.
This will only protect the FCOs from paying charges for damage to property not intelligent people.

12.
Networking.
1d4/max4.
This allows the desk jock to roll once per month vs. earning a free contact. The desk jock can pick the contact from the random contact list.
Failed roll results in no new contact for that month.

13.
Life insurance.
1d8/max7
This skill allows the desk jock to convince his agency to remove half the pay earned by all on mission in which the desk jock dies. The agency is assumed to be paying half the mission reward, and if the desk jock dies on the mission, all receive half pay.

This is rolled when desk jock enter mission, and all involved are made aware of this clause.

This is done with one successful roll done at the moment desk jock enters the mission.

14.
Stock.
*
For each slot placed on stock, the desk jock receives one stock. This stock has the chance to earn 10,000c per month on an unmodified roll of 1d6.

The desk jock rolls 1d6 for each slot owned. For every natural 6 rolled, the desk jock can earn 10.000c.
For every two 6s rolled, the desk jock can choose to earn a free stock-slot instead of taking the credit.
If three 6s are rolled the desk jock can cause a stock to earn permantly +10,000c on successful rolls of 6, instead of taking money.

These stocks can be freely given, sold, traded etc with any legal identity.

15.
Power of Media.
2 slots.
Once per month the desk jock can roll vs. bonuses found below. The desk jock is a man of media, and has a limited fan base due to his field.

The desk jock makes unmodified rolls vs.
1d4: 20,000c. Media pay.
1d6: +1 10,000c to Media pay.
1d8: 1d4 servants.

16.
Politics.
*
Per slot placed on politics, the desk jock retains a level of political power. The power only exists inside the location that the desk jock commands over. The desk jock gets an unmodified roll per level of political power, per gaining benefits noted below.

The GM’s judgment allows the desk jock ability within his area of command. Access to police forces, federal investigation etc. but only within the legal boundary of his political radius.

Political power unmodified roll.

1d4-City-block manager: Pay 1000c per month. (1 slot)
1d6-City mayor: 10,000 per month. Federal-protection within city. (3 slots)
1d8-Planetary president: 100,000c per month, Federal-protection on planet. (10 slots)
1d8-System Lord: 1,000,000c per month, federal protection within system. (15 slots)

17.
Persecution
1d10.
This skill allows the desk jock to persecute criminals in a court of law. The desk jock can over come legal attorney with this skill forcing charges to become guilty.
The criminal must be guilty for this to work, and the desk jock exploits this truth in a good old-fashioned trail of facts and questioning.

This skill can be used in reverse as “defense”, vs. one using this very skill. One successful roll will cancel the persecutor’s skill and allow the defendant to walk free.

*Multiple desk jocks can use this skill combined for a better chance at success. All desk jocks involved pool their owned slots to use in one modified roll vs. success.

18.
Head quarters.
4 slots.
The desk jock gets perks for working for his agency. The desk jock does not own these perks and is liable to pay for any damage done to them. The desk jock receives the following.

1 Luxury-class Spaceship for inter-galactic travel.
1 Luxury-class street vehicle for inter city travel.
Vss3 security on all agency provided property.

The desk jock also gets a building of operations with the following stas.

*5-inch-thick blast proof wall.
*1d20 floors +1d20 floors per full game run.
*Fully furnished and paid for.
*1 worker droid per floor, hooked to systems.
*Vss3 security on all.

19.
Embezzlement.
1d10/max9
Chance to steal half pay from another FCO’s corporation, mass marketing or stock. The owner of this form of business pay only receives half the income and the rest secretly is dumped into the desk jocks bank account.

*A roll of natural 1 results in being found guilty of federal crime (no trial). Getting 3d8 sentences of jail time.

20.
Desk job.
1d8/max7.
This skill allows the desk jock to ear half pay on a mission he is not on. The desk jock is assumed to have worked out contract laws, communicated much of the legal work involved and done some of the agency referral for the mission at hand. This complicated work is worth half the missions pay.
The desk jock can only earn pay on  mission that his agency supplies an FCO on. Meaning any game the player didn’t play, can not earn one of his desk jocks half pay.

This can be used once per desk jock owned by the agency in question. And the desk jocks only get paid if the mission is a success.

OK..thats most of the Desk-jock...im thinking about typeing up a quick history of the in-game BB story. dunno...soon.

oh...keep in mind, i am aware of the editiing that is needed in sentence structure and spelling. but that is Ferg's job, and all fully edited works are on his lap-top not mine....ill post fully-worked work when i get a chance to grab the flash-drive he so nicely hands me when i need it.

oh..and as a added bonus, heres a link to unrelated art-work that ive done...all of it is old and from the mid-90s...my work has improved greatly, but my lack of scanner has left me with no new-art-work to show...

is anyone needs art work, and wants to pay a small fee...im here.

http://www.geocities.com/wwwdrk/art.html

(the page is from my band...we make bad music)

Hiya,

Hold up a bit! It takes time to read these posts, and it's not the point to post the whole game. Let some people respond, over a day or two.

Best,
Ron

i hear ya boss...i know

but..if you look back to the first post..i said...i shall not clutter the board with multible posts, or tons of threds..but i will fill this one with a bunch of stuff.

now i know ill be posting volumes of stuff here, quickly..far to much info for anyone to make use of in a "forum sence"

but...i shall be flooding this thred with info...sumtimes even "stupid info". alls i ask is im allowed to do so...the game is huge, with story, rules, content of all sorts etc...technolgies, magics, law-systems, etc...

and i really dont think im gunna be using this thred for feedback or information other then posting to pass my time, and possibly interest a few wack-os who would enjoy a game like BB.

i guess what im saying is this...i have no idea how to post the way you like...just like i never had an ideas on how to make a game you would like....within risk of sounding rude ill simply say, ill post the way i post...

we have currently dozens of people who have played our game, a gameing group thats addicted...etc etc. ive worked for a printing press for three years, and have professional editors and what not...alls i really want from this thred is a place to post my info....yknow? im sorry if i waste ur time....but im rough around the edges and not the normal type-o-guy....im just a weird one. a weird one who has created an entire universe from the scraps of my weird mind....and i just wanted a place to post.

thanks.

You talk about the game a lot and specific rules, but you lack mention of mechanics that run your game. More interesting than skill and stats, we'd like to see the gears that get this baby going.

What ideas are it based on, what things are essential to the game?

Hey Sifolis.

I suggest that a thread here may not be the best place for just an information dump.  If you need a good place for that, you could make some pages in the Game Lab on my website.  Or if you have some free webspace of your own, that would be good too.  The forge is really more useful for discussing specifics about your game, which you can then post  references  from where you post the full text of the game.

best

Trevis

again..i must confess, i prolly dont have the trained nature to follow the "common" posting style of most people here...none-the-less, here i am.

so mechanics and basis? hmmm..that is a hard egg to cook, but ill try to give what was asked for.

the game is a sci-fi space opera, once discribe to me as a cross between monty-python, dusk till dawn and blade runner (i kinda like that)...its takes place in a universe known as the "New-verse", a over crowded artifical universe filled with mechanical systems, man made galaxies, heatless suns, tomb-moons and many other things that would prolly have you telling me to "slow down" about...

The object (if thats what you would call it for lack of a better word) would be to finish the "contract" you have been hired for as a FCO (federally commision officer). FCOs take on the jobs that the UPD (universal police) are too busy to perform, and the FEDs are too important to investigate.
The common view of FCO-ism is that; if your poor, and a risk taking fool, you can sign up for a few FCO runs under a privatly owned agency (your bull-pen of played FCOs)
Each one-shot game plays fully through one game-run or mission. the game begins with a boss (or a rep of the hireing boss) presenting and disscussion the job (sort of like an interview). your hired to perform the mission by contract.
common contracts have basic cluases.

Damage cluas (how much damage will my agency cover and pay for)
Violence cluas (can i kill? who can i kill? what allows me to kill? almost all missions allow killing those who try to kill you first...right to defence)
Action cluas (can i forcfully enter? can i search? can i kick the door down or must i show permits and ask to enter?)
Danger level (usually effects pay)
Pay: depends on the mission.

When an FCO is hired, he joins the team of that mission (the player party)
From there they go out and try to perform the mission in best form. Some break the law, some stick to it, some just dont care. what ever style of play is used by the player, it dont matter...hey your here to have fun..a BB player ruins a D&D game the second he enters it...ive seen great roll players turn into assholes who kill everything after they play BB for too long. some never un-learn the brutal style.

There are diffrent ways a contract can be compleated, those are indepth and mechanical in the rule matrix of the game...i wont waste your time since your so into "post structure"...but again, i assure you, im no pro-poster, and your wasting your time dealing with a man who birthed this game....you prolly should click the sane game marker's links next time...

anyway...

so you do the mission...you have the right to bring in a new FCO every time you die...and trust me...we have a graveyard (4 milke crates) of over 1000 dead FCOs. some missed, some loved, some hated, some legendary at our table, and some we cant even remeber entering the game...

When the missio is over, you spend your Credit account, you purchas skills, you spend "slots" on things you always wanted...you use your contacts...etc. soon, the BB realm (galaxy) your running turns into a crowded world filled with dozens of FCOs communicating and dealing good, tricking each other, moving in together to pool wealth, becoming rich, building robots, ships, homes, fortresses....doing jail time...oohhhh....the years ive spent in Galga's cells...if i only had the time to tell you...

anyway...since each player can own multitudes of players...the death count is high..there are a bunch of clever rules to make this fair and fun, not just a crazy "you die, bye bye game"....there is no coming back..you die..your dead....sorry. play again.

at one time, my agency of FCOs i owned and had option to bring into game at any time was 26...they are all dead but three now...the poster i drew was a sure visual sign of the death that chewed through my personal agency.

so..the tech is nuts..but scientifically pluasible. we are geeks here..and i am a radio-shack master. yknow..we like science...ALOT

the damage...brutal. blood, bones breaking or shattering, mind sickness, nerve damage, fire, ice, E-sol etc...you name it..its graphic and gross....took years to nuild that sytem...since i wanted by damage/combat system to mimic none...but we ALL know we all must stand on the backs of giants, and no work is "orginal: down to its screws n bolts.

So...um...violence...death...cash...and a %uck load of monsters, aliens, sci-fi-ish creations of our own...

well....if anyone still gives a damn, and doubt you ever did....im open to share what ever u want....but again...i disclaim;

"We here at BB are addicted to our drug we have created.We have enjoyed about 8 years of playing our creation. the book is intended to be published, it always was...but we waited to "know" it was professional, and NUTS. We do not post to cater to the "norm" or those who hate typos, or errors...we simply post cus we are board, we are trapped in a room typing monster,weapon,blackmarket-gear,Bolt-info or magics (yes we say it plural in BB). So please...if your world has fallen to the "controlled" way...dont waste your time reading wha we post...you will not find solace here."

with that sad..if there is anyone who thinks "yknow, i think im FCO", then ask question, call us dorks, send us he middle finger or sing along....we got all day.

What battle mechanics do you use to play the game? What are the rules.

Agility rules battle prob. The higher a player's agility, the faster he can move, act, or effect his world. All stats are 1-10 (2d10 call your ten die).
In a universe filled with countless races and phylums of life forms, agility scores can varie from low (1-20) to mid (30-60) to high (70-00). A 00 agility (100) would allow a player speeds that can cross 100s of feet of distance in under seconds, moving so quickly as to appear as a vusual blurr....like superman you might say...but in this universe, such speed is not uncommon enough to be seen as incredible, just dangerous.

I attack you by rolling 2d10 (calling my ten die), if i beat your agility score i hit you. a get bonuses for all aiming skills, scopes, technologies for targeting, training, etc. (a +45 to hit is not that impressive vs my military scope and augmented eyes that give me a +65 to hit all targets)

some attacks are made as "unmodified", no + to hit being counted due to the difficulty of the attack (militant action, mach dhom, universal super punch, bone break, etc).

The target suffers damage, much like hit points (but with a cooler name), when the points reach zero, your dead.

the game has both fired-weps and handhelds. (guns and close range). rules declare how damage is delt with both.
guns do damage in line with the weapon's noted damage (sprd dam, singl shot dam, etc).

Handheld weapons do not actually have a damage die to roll, but simply add a bonus to the player's normal hand damage rated by strength. sword +3 too strength dam, boot knife +1 to strength dam.

there are also rules for three types of mystical attacks.

Divine, magical and voodoo. all three balance the other.

battle goes around the table in rounds. each round is assumed to last 2-and-a-half seconds of time, and battle is often portrayed in slow motion for story effect (years before the matrix or bullet time).

turns come in order of agility. highest always first , lowest always last. it remove the fun of rolling to determin order of battle, but it also becomes very first-natured quickly. the 99 agility guy always beats my 80, ill always have to deal with him going first until he is dead.

There are few things in the new-verse that heal damage without magic or a mdeical permit (both not easy to obtain).

um...there are other factors like, nerve damage, bone damage, organ damage, etc..but they are called into play by weapon types that cause them.

your agility also determins your actions per round (your style or class can add a bonus to this), the number of actions you have is called your H2H.

goes like this.
Agility Movement H2H
1-10 1 ft per action 1/0
11-20 2 ft per action 1/0
21-30 5 ft per action 1
31-40 10 feet per action 1
41-50 15 feet per action 1
51-60 20 feet per action 1
61-70 25 feet per action 2
71-80 30 feet per action 2
81-90 35 feet per action 2
91-99 40 feet per action 2
100-110 50 feet per action 3
111-120 55 feet per action 3
121-130 60 feet per action 3
131-140 65 feet per action 3
141-150 70 feet per action 4
151-160 75 feet per action 4
161-170 80 feet per action 4
171-180 85 feet per action 5
181-190 90 feet per action 5
191-199 100 feet per action 6
200 125 feet per action 7

there are many races in the natrual universe that can reach inhuman levels on all stats. a strength of 90 can lift over 3 tons, but is seen as non-magical or unimpressive compaired to the Garr's strength of 110 (tough buggers those Garr, orange umpa loompa looking turds).

If a player's agility is raised above 00 (say to 125) it would be impossible to hit him without + to hit bonuses. skills, training, scopes, devices, implants...all these things can offer bonuses to hit if purchased or earned. such devices are commonplace in law forces to deal with such life forms who speeds are so high that the natrual biological eye can hardly see them.

the game is fun...fast and violent, but a nicer group can get along with each other if they wished. often FCOs team up and build bonds that last as long as they do.

did i answer correctly? or did i %uck it all up again?

Sifolis wrote:
Agility rules battle prob. The higher a player's agility, the faster he can move, act, or effect his world. All stats are 1-10 (2d10 call your ten die).

So, agility is your only stat?

no...

there are 5 main stats, and three sub stats.

main stats are
Agility
Ballz
Mynd
Awe
Strength

all range from 1-200, but a maximum of 100 is the limit for a new-FCO.

all stats are basic role play concepts....the major difference is that we have no "inteligence" score (you are as smart as your FCO's skills and action portray), and the fact that there is no alignment....good/evil is not  a concreat idealism in BB. players are free to delv into deep role-play, with much thought into direction, emotion and conflict...while some perfer to run an FCO that dont give a flying %uck about plot..they just want to kill what they came to kill.

the system allows both true deep-roleplaying, and hack-n-slash loonecy.

the game plays smoothly..and has been well tested....forgive me if anything sounds rough around the edges or loosly built..we have rules for everything from space-travle, various computer systems, magical effects, complex legal vs. socile systems....you name it...over a decade of study and style. we worked hard to make this bastard child walk....and walk it does.

oh...and this will prolly mean nothing to you...but...here
Agility Movement H2H
1-10 1 ft per action 1/0
11-20 2 ft per action 1/0
21-30 5 ft per action 1
31-40 10 feet per action 1
41-50 15 feet per action 1
51-60 20 feet per action 1
61-70 25 feet per action 2
71-80 30 feet per action 2
81-90 35 feet per action 2
91-99 40 feet per action 2
100-110 50 feet per action 3
111-120 55 feet per action 3
121-130 60 feet per action 3
131-140 65 feet per action 3
141-150 70 feet per action 4
151-160 75 feet per action 4
161-170 80 feet per action 4
171-180 85 feet per action 5
181-190 90 feet per action 5
191-199 100 feet per action 6
200 125 feet per action 7

Strength Lift/press Dam BB+
1-10 x1/x5 0 + 0
11-20 x2/x5 1 + 0
21-30 x5/x10 1-2 + 0
31-40 x5/x10 1-2 + 1
41-50 x5/x10 1d4 + 1
51-60 x5/x10 1d4 + 1
61-70 x10/x20 1d4 + 2
71-80 x10/x20 1d6 + 2
81-90 x10/x20 1d6 + 2
91-99 x10/x20 1d6 + 2
100-110 x15/x25 1d8 + 3
111-120 x15/x25 1d8 + 3
121-130 x15/x25 1d10 + 4
131-140 x20/30 1d10 + 4
141-150 x20/x30 1d12 + 5
151-160 x20/x30 1d12 + 5
161-170 x25/x35 1d20 + 6
171-180 x25/x35 1d20 + 6
181-190 x25/x35 2d10 + 7
191-199 x30/x40 3d10 + 8
200 x40/x50 4d10 + 9

Ballz Bldshd Fort Bone
1-10 1 0 1d1
11-20 1-2 0 1d2
21-30 1d4 0 1d4
31-40 1d4 0 1d4
41-50 1d4 0 1d6
51-60 1d6 0 1d6
61-70 1d6 1 1d8
71-80 1d8 1 1d8
81-90 1d8 2 1d10
91-99 1d10 3 1d10
100-110 1d12 4 1d12
111-120 2d6 5 1d12
121-130 2d8 6 1d12
131-140 2d10 7 1d20
141-150 2d12 8 1d20
151-160 3d10 9 1d25
161-170 3d12 10 1d30
171-180 4d10 11 1d35
181-190 4d12 12 1d40
191-199 5d10 13 1d45
200 4d20 15 1d50

Mynd Mag SPR SPD Sanity
1-10 0 0 0 0%
11-20 1 1 1 0%
21-30 1 1 2 0%
31-40 1 1 3 0%
41-50 1 1 4 5%
51-60 1 1 5 5%
61-70 2 2 10 5%
71-80 2 2 15 10%
81-90 2 3 20 10%
91-99 2 3 25 10%
100-110 3 3 30 15%
111-120 3 4 35 15%
121-130 3 4 40 20%
131-140 All 4 50 20%
141-150 All 5 60 25%
151-160 All 5 70 25%
161-170 All 5 80 30%
171-180 All 6 90 40%
181-190 All 7 100 50%
191-199 All 8 125 75%
200 All 9 150 100%

Awe Fan Serv SPGR Cmd
1-10 0 0 5% 0
11-20 0 0 5% 0
21-30 0 0 10% 0
31-40 1 0 10% 10
41-50 1 0 15% 20
51-60 1 0 15% 30
61-70 2 0 20% 40
71-80 2 1 20% 50
81-90 3 1 25% 60
91-99 3 2 25% 70
100-110 4 3 35% 80
111-120 5 4 35% 90
121-130 10 5 45% 100
131-140 15 10 50% 120
141-150 20 10 55% 130
151-160 25 15 60% 140
161-170 30 15 65% 150
171-180 40 20 70% 160
181-190 50 30 75% 170
191-199 60 40 80% 180
200 75 50 95% 200

Hey Sifolis, and hello. I've got a couple of questions for you, but first of all thanks for what you've posted so far.

Could you give us an example of play, please?

I've got a broad impression of the rules and what goes on in the game - correct me please if I've got it wrong, but the impression I've got so far is that you play these FCO officers, they go out and do fabulous stuff, and they often end up dead. The system that you've got is detailed, with rules for all sorts of activities and technologies, and the core mechanic is rolling 2D10 to generate a percentile result, and trying to roll higher than your opponent's stat after modifiers have been added to your roll.

Regarding your mechanic, you said that you "call the 10 die" - does that happen before or after you've rolled the dice? I mean to say do you get to determine which is the tens die when you've got the results to look at? That would generate an interesting probability curve. You've also said that you add modifiers to your roll - does your opponent get to add modifiers to his 'stat', or does it stay the same?

Also, how do you resolve tests against things that aren't characters? Do players roll against target numbers?

Out of curiousity, what other systems have you played, and have you written any others?

Finally, and this is just a heads up, don't worry just yet about posting large chunks of rules text - they are interesting, but as you said the do "prolly mean nothing to [us]" - we don't have the same understanding of the system that you've developed over the years.

What I'm trying to get my head around at the moment is the basics of the system - before any of the cool stuff gets into my head, I need to know what  - in D&D the main thing I needed to worry about when I was learning how to play was if I needed to roll high, or roll low, and what kind of dice to roll at which time. With Ron's Sorcerer what I needed to know was to roll a bunch of dice and determine which was the highest, then work from there, and that doing well meant extra dice for next time. In GODLIKE what I needed to know was that I rolled a bunch of D10 and wanted to get them to match. With Luke's Burning Wheel what I needed to know was that I wanted to roll as many D6 as possible, and get as many of them 4+ as I could.

As far as I can tell, when I'm sitting down to my first game of Blood Bounty, what I need to roll is 2D10 as a percentile, and I want that to be as high as possible, and I can add extra stuff to it from my character's equipment, yes?

What's the next rule that I need to know?

ok...cool....a dude whos listening...ill try not to fuck this up for you...here goes.

You call then "ten" die before you roll (but there is a magical weapon that allows calling the ten after you roll, but thats that). Yes you always want high numbers (unless your saveing vs. a stat vs a bad effect; save vs. agility vs. falling off ledge etc).

example of battle.

Dhalvid (My Vodox fleshien mage) has an agility of 88 (my highest score since most people tend to place the highest score on agility or Ballz), but the Umen (blue skined race that is very common) has an augmented agility (nerve implants) of 82...he is also high on a common street drug called Velocity-5 (giving him a +5 to agility for the next hour), making his agility a 87....the Umen goes first.

The umen is using a palsic-powered E-sol rifel, and he has three han-to-hand actions (h2h) per turn. the rifle has a +10 to hit (all rifles do) and he has a street-permit scope (+5).
The Umen spends one of his actions to fire at Dhalvid...roles a 33...what a miss.
Next action he decides to spend his action to aim (ganing a +5...alway a +5 to hit when spending an action just to aim, unless you have offical training, then you get a bonus equal to your training level)
The umen then spends his last action to fire again with a +20 to hit (+10 for rifle, +5 cus of aiming, +5 cus of scope)
he rolls a 72...+20= an attack roll of 92. this beats my agility of 88, and i am tagged by the shot.

the rifle deals spread damage (since the attacks were broken down into actions...a rifle has two damage levels; by action, or by full round one-shot) 1d6.

Now...i check my sheet, and i should know what i got. i have a street level padded-vest (physical armor), and thats a fortitude of 1, i also have a Ballz stat of 80, so i have a natrual Fortitude of 2 (total foritude is a 3, if im hit in the chest)
The attacker rolls the location of the hit...rolls a 1d10, rolling a 4, thats my chest. im hit in the chest.

rolls damage....1d6, and rolls a 4.
Now my fortitude subtracs from this damage. the vest fortitude of 1 subtracts one point of damage, my natrual fortitude of 2 subtracts two points of damage...i take 1 point of damage.

since its an E-sol weapon (think laser gun) i do not have to roll vs. any bone breakage, so i take the one point of damage. my total Bloodshed (hit points) is a 6 (cus my Ballz allowed me to roll 1d8 bloodshed when i made my FCO, i rolled 6, thats pretty high.)
Now i Have 5 points left.

Now its my turn...I have a mynd of 95 and im a flesh-mage. Im gunna cast spells without a doubt. with my high mynd score i can cast three spells pur turn and 25 spells per day...i choose the spells Ass-vomit (mynd of 20) Vein-pain (mynd of 45) and Fatten (mynd 25), i add the spells mynd power (20+45+25= 95....thats below my mynd score so i can cast all three within the same round), the victim saves vs. his mynd score on all three counts.
his mynd is 46, i should get a spell off on him if he rolls high. to save vs. the spells he must roll under his mynd.

vs. ass vomit, he rolls a 72...sorry thats not gunna help you. his ass explods with filth and waste, bringing his agility dwn by -5 for 1d4 rounds (thats the spells effect) and lowering his awe 1 point per round he suffers the effect (also the spells effect)

Vs. Vein pain he rolls a 32...thats well below his mynd score..the spell doesnt affect him.

vs. Fatten he rolls 47, one point over his mynd score..he fails to protect agaisnt the spell, becomes instantly fat, loseing -10 agility for 1d10 hours.

so that round my spells brought his agility temporarly down by -15 (an effective 750)

the next round, the umen decides to use his rifle in a full-round attack, bigger damage, but can not spread the attack in multible blasts.

he spends his whole turn fireing the rifle one time....and rolls 80 (with his +5 scope and +10 rifle, he hits my agility again)

this time he rolls a 2 on location...hitting my neck. no vest there so i can no benefit from the vests fortitude, but my natrual fortitude of 2 is my entire body, so i still can use that.

he rolls his single-shot damage since he didnt spread his attacks with the rifle.

damage 1d10....he rolls an 8.

my fortitude of 2 reduces all physical damage i recive by 2, so im hit for 6...that kills me. im dead. FUCK! lucky shot.

i bring in my second-string FCO that i pre-choose before we started play...im allowed a maximum of three FCOs per mission...he is my second FCO so ill recive half-pay if this new FCO survives the mission.

hope that helped? made sumthing clearer? there are alot of other things that alter battle or do diffrenet things..but thats the basics of attacking with a E-sol weapon. and some flesh magic for good measure.

thanks for asking....peace.

Oh..almost forgot..You asked what games i have played..

D&D (all forms, been playing since 82), Rifts, Shadowrun, HERO system-5 (and 4), TMNT, vampire, GURPS, and a few games we have created and dropped. (and a few larps, nero, wolf)

the other two main-makers of BB have also played many RPG table top games, and one has had much art published in White-wolf's game books.

we have spent years loving and playing role-playing games...and over a decade of building and playing BB.

Before i started coming up with the BB story and rule system, i had only played D&D, but through the years ive had to exspand my understanding of rules and systems of play to insure that we were not copying or mimicing popular roll systems and what not....

alot of the hard-core systems of BB are unlike any ive ever played, or any of our player's fav games that they have played.
there are a bunch of key rules that i have never seen attempted, or done well..and we have designed these rules to work smoothly and alot of our players enjoy that.

alot of the revolutionary stuff is kept secret untill my co-designers allow them to be public...hell, one of them is upset that im posting here cus he fails to see reason. his argument is that most people online, in forums, have no real realtion to game design and that they have "at best" three month old games that they threw together half-ass....this game is our brain-child....from story, to back-story, to rules, to gear, to technology, to monsters to combat systems and economy...all very detailed and over a decade worth of fine-tuning.

i for one enjoy talking about the game, and see no harm in posting about it..and since i am the one who introduced the game to my co-designers over ten years ago....ill share whatever i wish...cus im an asshole.

Hey again Sifolis - actually, have you got a real name? It feels a bit weird having a conversation between something that sounds like an antibiotic and something that sounds like a disease...

Anyway, thanks for that example of play. It gives me some more questions to ask, which I'll do just now:

The five stats each character has seem to have more than one function - you want to roll under them when you're making a save, you want them to be high because that gives you extra things to do (cast spells in a round, know spells, cast spells in a day, take actions, ability to resist damage), is that right? Skills and training add to your rolls, and equipment can add to your rolls and sometimes to your stats when they're being used as target numbers (your opponent is rolling against them) - is that right too?

Is there a short form of which stats do which things?

I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible because your game seems to have a lot of specific terminology and spellings that I consider to be odd, but I'm from the UK so most of our spellings drive people berserk.

Now, I'm going to ask a question that might be a bit of a challenge to answer - what do the people playing the game do when they're sitting at the table? Can you tell me without using much rules language? I'll give you a couple of examples to keep things fair - In D&D there are players and a dungeon master. The dungeon master creates dungeons which contain treasure and monsters, and the players take their characters through the dungeons, defeating the monsters to get treasure. It can often take several sessions to get through a dungeon to the treasure and back. That's not the whole of the thing, but that's the basic thing. In Dogs In The Vineyard, the GM creates a town, which contains demonic influence, and moral conflicts, and the players take their Dogs into the town to sort those things out. What's the division of responsibilities expected in a game like Blood Bounty?

Thanks for telling us what games you've read - it's interesting that you're concerned that your system might be mimicking or copying popular systems - how much of a concern was that when you've been working on these mechanics for all these years? Have you discarded rules or subsystems of rules when you've run across others like them?

You still play Blood Bounty regularly, is that correct? Have you had a look in the Actual Play forum? I'd be fascinated to read a log of a game of Blood Bounty - who did what, why the did what they did, what you enjoyed, and what the players enjoyed. Might we see you there sometime?

Finally, your friend does have some grounds of concern about folk on the internet having no clue about game design, but I'll tell you this (and for him as well) - the Forge helped me understand more about what I want and enjoy from games than anything else, and I consider it a great boon that I can use it to talk to people like Ron Edwards, Luke Crane, and Vincent Baker, who have all written games that I hugely enjoy, and regularly carry around with me to preach the gospel of intelligent design. Which, now that I've written it, isn't quite what I meant to say. The biggest problem the Forge has is that the people who post here are often busy - it takes a lot of time to digest things and think about them - the only reason I've posted so much here is that I'm on holiday from work and am avoiding revision.

Oh, almost forgot - just in case you hadn't read the sticky thread at the top about policy in this forum - here's a link.

It may well be that we're leaving the usefulness of this thread behind, and you may want to consider my questions in relation to the above-linked document as the seeds of new threads, or of an IM - though I do think that some of the answers might be best addressed in public if only that others can contribute.

Ive put thought into typing up a good session that we ran, just gotta choose one...so yeah, look for it soon in the AP forum...its coming.

the 5 main stats do regulate alot of things...and yes modifiers are everywhere in the game..from skills, training, items, tech etc.

yes we have strived to make a system that barrows as little as possible from other games...in fact, BB was first imagined as a game to play as a "break" from more serious games..a sort of release or escape from the typical good-guys vs. bad guys, happy as a clam, holding hands to destroy the dragon/wizerd/knight etc...

the entire game runs on our system, not a re-invented system from another game..i think that 99% of all role-playing games out-right steal or copy too much from the grandfathers of RPGs, this game was made with very strict attention to that.

as for, "what do people do" ill try to answer that to my best ability without getting to into game-lingo or weird wordings.

the game master (GR...Galaxy runner) plays the roles of "physics" and all npcs...as well as story teller....that part is true to old-school style of rpgs such as D&D. the glaxy-runner makes the mission in advanced, making maps, notes, NPCs , triggers/traps/plot-twists etc...he also has to take some time prepearing for the event of a party going NUKE (destroying itself for what ever reason..inner squabble, failure to perform correctly, out right losing)
The game-runner's most important job is to keep control, and entertain the party...since the players live shorter lives then most other games, its not that important to slow the players growth...in one game run you can get more power then you can imagin (if played right) or cheat the party out of millions of Credit (universal money)....the GR is not expected to limit your growth or try to slow your advancment....but he is allowed to kill you...

The players...the players play thier FCOs how ever they wish...some play certain FCOs with care and try to keep them alive, while they play other FCOs with wreck-loose abandon....its up to you...you wanna live?
Any way....the players are all hired by agenceys to do the mission..its a legal mission...they are given certain rights to deal with the mission (you can break and enter, but you cant kill anyone, or, you can kill everyone but you cant enter) the limitations are left up to the GR....
The players then must perform the mission...and hope to survive.
Ive seen mission go smooth..with players investigating a drug-ring and busting them with video survalance, and then cuffing them with little blood shed....
But ive also seen missions where the goal was to bring down an inter-galactic explosives dealer who was linked to terroristic acts across the universe....i watched them find his hide-out, enter the building, kill all the henchmen, kill the bomb-dealer...and then acidently set the bombs off killing everyone inside the building.

the mission is limited to the GR's imagination...a good mission has action, mystery, shock and excitment...a bad mission is boring and easy....

the FCOs know that their job s dangerous...and they are some-what legal police (temp cops)...so they choose how to do it.
every mission starts with the players choosing what three FCOs they are going to use today, and in what order (1st string, 2 string, 3 string)....when one FCO dies, the player can bring in his 2nd string.
all players are from different agencys, and are not always "sworn friends" or even "polite" to each other..its always interesting to watch whos gunna team up, whos gunna back stab the party, whos in it for the glory, and whos in it for the blood....

over time, one player can have many many FCOs that he played before, and can pick and choose from his stable of playable FCOs...I have one FCO (a chop doctor)  who i love, and he has 4 games under his belt, he has over 2 million cred and lives a nice life...i only bring him into game when i know my friend is bringing in his female ninja, cus that ninja loves my chop-doc and she always protects my back...but my friend also has an FCO (a vigilante) who i have fucked over in the past..and if we meet again, i know that brute will attempt to kill me the second he gets the chance...

The mission usually starts with the platers going to the location of the mission, or searching for it..they are all suited with whatever gear they purchased and an FCO badge. that badge allows you your rights as an FCO...and the from there its what ever hits the fan.....most contracts deal with criminals, or dangerous situations...most games turn awfully bloody and action pacted with fire-fights, or plot twists that leave the play's deciding if they want to actually perform thier legal duity or say "fuck it" and make a criminal deal with whom ever they are hunting.

theres alot of ways the game plays out...but every mission is a one-shot one-sit one-day deal..no on-going weekly story (though alot of missions are related)

there are no "levels", i always hated how a level 12 can NOT be hurt or killed by a 1st level..thats BULLSHIT...in real life a 12 year old with a gun can kill a well trained navy seal with a good shot....and thats how the game works...no levels, just survival and game-to-game danger in the universe's most dangerous line of work; FCO work.

um...how am i doing? sheding light or confusing the shit outta ya?

Sifolis wrote:
i think that 99% of all role-playing games out-right steal or copy too much from the grandfathers of RPGs, this game was made with very strict attention to that.

i will be checking the gencon out as soon as everything is printed and polished...things are coming along nicely, with art and editing and all....the rules are almost finished.

Hey again Sifolis - just a quick question, more likely to follow - you say the rules are almost finished?

If that's the case, how can we help you in the Indie Game Design forum? I wonder because your questions might be better answered over in Publishing.

the first time i found this site...it was when i was looking for publishing information, so yes, i will end up in that forum sooner or later.

most posts from the crew on this site keep asking why im posting, or whould i benefit more from posting somwhere else, and seriously..i dont know...alls i know is i found this site to be the most "well made" forum to speak of BB. Will me posting here help you? or help me? i hope so..but seriously, again, i dont know....but i do know i read almost everything here, and it helps me see what "i am doing diffenrently" then you guys..and what your doing differnetly then us over here.

and that helps for many reasons.

but, while im reading..i get antsy, and type a little about our game...i dunno why, i guess it makes me happy to post somwhere where people care about table-top games....you ever try talking about your RPG at a party of grown people? or worse, at the market? people look at you like your nuts....and if they dont, they are just being nice.

so yeah...forgive me a hundred times if im wasting your time...forgive me a hundrend more if im sucking at this whole "forum rules" thing..i simply know the game we made was made with much attention to detail, format and factor-of-fun...and alot of locals love playing our over-the-top game of blood, guts and destruction....and i just wanted to type about it.

I will be asking you guys alot of publishing questions when the time comes. i see alot of people typing about games they invented inside thier heads last week, and how they are not sure how the system will run, or what it will be about..that they just got the idea ..and they post.

me and my boys took over a decade polishing and designing our game...it runs like clock-work ad has done so for the past 2 addtions...so i figured this site was a place for my kind. so here i am.

i will say Ferg is getting upset over me sharing BB with the board here....since he co-owns the game, i sort of respect him and dont talk about what we seem to think is "revolutionary" about our game...since we have yet to see a single game anywhere pull of some of the things that are stables in our matrix. but still...i type.

i type cus this forum seems to be a place to disscuss home-made, self-brewed games that are not of the norm...

but yeah...

Hello. I'm Selene. What's your name?

Sifolis wrote:
most posts from the crew on this site keep asking why im posting, or whould i benefit more from posting somwhere else, and seriously..i dont know...alls i know is i found this site to be the most "well made" forum to speak of BB. Will me posting here help you? or help me? i hope so..but seriously, again, i dont know....but i do know i read almost everything here, and it helps me see what "i am doing diffenrently" then you guys..and what your doing differnetly then us over here.

(snip)

i type cus this forum seems to be a place to disscuss home-made, self-brewed games that are not of the norm...

answers.

1- your wasting your time reading my posts...please refer yourself to a more structured thred , just so you can be in a "stream lined" world.

2- bubbling thoughts make the ocean of creation frothy.

3- again...i post cus i enjoy doing so.

4-I dont know why you wonder why i post...ive used every post to defend why i do it.

5- advice on how we cept on track and dedicated? overcoming obsticals? thats actually a good one...i reccomend coffee, dreams, math and a dedicated need.

i dunno what to tell you...i think ill have to leav the forum...to many people think they "invented" the "way to post creative disscussion"

I just re-read my thred...i found this.

1- an introduction to our game and its style of play.

2- a direct disclaimer for those types who think they will be reading " a normal thred".

3- multible directions for you not to read this thred if your looking for a "normal" (by your standards) thred.

4- a indepth discription of some sides to our combat system.

i read my messages in my little message thingy and found

1- a message saying "i enjoy your posts"

2- a bunch of people trying to deliver to me a "forge code of posting"

look people...alls i asked was a place to type...one thred...thats it....i a large portion of you were all pretenious 50-cent word using anal-retentive types....thats why ive pointed you to other threds....yet still, over 50 people a day read from my thred...i dont get you...do you stick your heads in blazing fire just to point out that fire burns skin?

do you bash your heads with rocks, just to blame rocks for being soilid enough to cause harm???

within the realm of sounding rude, i must say...this thred is not for you..id like to learn how many people would read from here if the nay-sayers and english-teachers were to stop clicking this thred....so please...again....i beg of you...stop clicking this link if you chained by some fabricated doctrin of "how one should post, or present their idea".

fair?

i have read countless threds here that get good critic aproval, threds that sound as if they are based on the most loosly thought-out systems, sytems that balence on hollow ideas and the shittyest of dice sytems....or evern worse, games that come off as boring as playing a game about being the milkman delivering his load...or a garbage man stuck with the choices of what trash to scoop up next.

ive posted what our game does, how it does it, alot of inner logic to our style of play, dice systems, combat rules, etc....i was not following a structured "help me with this" style of typing becuase we are close to finished with our game, im not 15 and confused by dice or math, and ive worked for over a decade on the game...im sorry if you look towards posts that dont humbly beg you for wisdom....im sorry if what i type does not come off as "a young punk who needs you to fix a problem"

fact remains...our game is balenced, worked and re-worked, built and refined....im not posting for advice on how to start or finish our work...im posting to have fun disscussiong what ever aspect of the game i wish....

this thred stands as one....one vs. many that you would enjoy more..since most threds on this board seem to be either kissing the ass of DV or some other local talent (DV looks very fun mind you..the insult was not intended to strike that game or its clever desigers...more like praise them)
this thred exists to please me, and the few who wish to read it...is there a reason that 450 people have clicked the link to this thred? OTHER then to just point and say "not right not right"? i wonder.

alls im saying is this....shut up and read, reply if you wish...say what you wish...but dont think im gunna hand feed you an explination of why i post all looy-loo or sloppy, again...ive gone far out of my way to say this one mre thie..here goes.

"this thred belongs to the forge, and is created by a group of mad-men who made a game for the past decade...we have dozens of loyal lovers who beg for the game to be printed...and when its finally printed, we think we will have thousands of loyal fans....untill then, i will work on the game daily with my two other co-workers, and post here when im bord, on a break at work, or just feeling like i have somthing to share"

perhaps its my fualt that im american....i mean, my people are all big-mouthed rutter-heads who spit and cuss for the joy of it...and we meandor through speach with little effort put forth to be clean-cut n nitch-fitting....who knows...

but if you think a guy who types three pages in just under 5 minutes is going to spell-check, or stream-line hos forum thoughts, then your on crack...im not that guy..but you should have figured that out the very first post i left....

whos in the wrong? the willy-nilly guy who posts all wacky-and-loose, or the people who are confused by it even though the guy warned you he would do it?

dunno...you do the math..perhaps you can figure out the bell curve on the ratio of the dice when the modifier is blah blah blah blah.....

yeah this threds a lil wacky..but saddly i think its one of the few that back-up a real compleat game, not to mention the few threds that have anything to do with a play tested and proof-built system.

thanks.

Hey.

People who aren't benefiting from this thread, don't follow it.

Sifolis, don't whack at people who are trying to help.

If both of these instructions are followed, I won't have to do some moderating.

Best,
Ron

I know how I'd like to benefit from this thread, so I'll give it a try.

Sitolis, I'm interested in how you and your friends play up the violence aspect of this game, and in what your game text says about how you play up the violence aspect of the game. Note that those might be two very different things. My own curious interest is in discussing the first. You might benefit from discussing the second, in terms of producing a game text that will better instruct players in how to have the same kind of fun with your game that you've been having with it all these years.

It's clear that you've (collectively) had a lot of fun with this game, and it's also apparent that the violence is an important part of that experience. The title you've given the game, the title you gave to this thread, and your repeated mentions of the game's violence in your posts (including the ridiculous "this may be more violent than your provincial little minds can handle" attitude that occasionally peeks through) all speak to that. Great! I'm into it. You've got my attention.

But how does ultra-violence actually come into play and affect play? So fac, I've seen only a list of kinds of injuries that characters can suffer, no more (or less) grisly or violent than a hundred damage charts and critical hit tables I've seen elsewhere. That might be a good starting point, but it doesn't get anywhere by itself. Compare these three hypothetical dialogs during play:

GM:  The chizzkid's vibroblade slices your left arm off above the elbow, while the concussion of the sonic blaster shot smashes into your skull and pops your right eyeball right out of its socket.
PLAYER: Crap! Well, no time to put Quik-Clot on the wounds now. I'll drop my two-handed plasma rifle and use my hand blaster from now on, until I can get a re-gen..

GM:  The chizzkid's vibroblade slices your left arm off above the elbow, while the concussion of the sonic blaster shot smashes into your skull and pops your right eyeball right out of its socket.out of its socket.
PLAYER: I scream in agony until either someone tranqs me or I black out from shock.

GM:  The chizzkid's vibroblade slices your left arm off above the elbow, while the concussion of the sonic blaster shot smashes into your skull and pops your right eyeball right out of its socket.
PLAYER: Crap! My arm! Aw shit!
OTHER PLAYER: Dude, watch that stump, don't spurt your arterial blood on the instrument panels!
PLAYER: Is my eye still attached or what?
OTHER PLAYER: Oops! Sorry, clumsy me, I think I already stepped on it.
PLAYER: Bastard! I'll aim that arterial blood right in your face!

I doubt that any of these is really representative of how your game actually sounds in play. The point is to show that the same in-game-world effects can come across very different depending on how the players actually play them -- not in terms of what kind of points are lost or rolls are made, but how the players really interact around the table.

So, how do you play up the violence when you play Blood Bounty?

Do players get social rewards (approving expressions, groans, "dude, that's sick!") for describing vivid scenes of violence done by or to their characters? And if so, does the game text tell players do do that?

Do characters who died in memorable ways get memorialized in your game lore? For instance, if Crim Griddle the Space Pirate suffers an excruciating slow asphyxiation in a leaky sabotaged spacesuit, are those who suffer similar fates subsequently spoken of as "pulling a Griddle" or "Crimming?" And if so, does the game text tell players how to do that?

Do situations in the game often involve seeking revenge that's frustratingly slow in coming, making it extra satisfying when the ultimate payoff is as grisly as possble? And if so, does the game text tell players how to do that?

Does game play generate such horribly emotionally stressed situations that extreme violence is the only appropriate catharsis, like in this example from an Actual Play thread of an ultra-violent game called Violence Future:{/url]

Ron Edwards wrote: Characters (in respective order of the three players listed above): a depraved male samurai who eats his victims' hearts and still nurses at his mother's breasts; a depraved female samurai heavily in S&M, as well as whatever you call wanting to kill your partners during sex; a slothful male ronin who kills, steals, and manipulates because it's the easiest way to be comfortable, yet idealizes his friendship with a woman he's never met.

Events during play ... oh man, I'm not even sure I want to go into this ... suffice to say, the challenge was to create dramatic interconnecting stories using templates including sexual torture, broken hearts, corporate intrigue, and capitalist demons from hell, and I think we achieved this to a large extent. I suppose that in keeping with the topics of the above threads, I might as well disclose.

Kyber's character ended up naked and dead, straddling (still inserted) the also-naked and equally-dead body of her mortal enemy in a pedophile-prostitute house; she was slain by a poisoned French tickler, and he was killed by her with a broken-ended glass rod, through the eye, as her final act. My character ended up embracing his sex-slave as the only person who'd never betrayed him, and killing both her and himself on his own sword, pinning them together, with his valet decapitating him as the seppuku clincher.

only got ten minutes to type..so ill try to answer what i can.

the text makes alot of reference to violence, and the game sports lots of items, monsters and weapons that do horrble things....

there are also benefits to some games in BB that make violence between players to be expected...or at lest "more" expected.....what i mean is, every game has a conract, like ive mentioned, that details the "pay conditions"...one contdition is commonly called "to split"....a contract that is "to split" is offered only to those who return alive, and is split among them.

"if you kill this kidnapper and return my child, i will pay you 500,000c to split"...man o man, how many times have i seen a whole team wack each other in hopes for a bigger share....but thats only one aspect.

there are tons of off the wall monsters that do everything from "fuck your face to death" or "rip your skin from your head", there are tons of weapons "the hand blender, or the mualer_ hat rip through skin and bone....these sort of things add to the violence.....

but as you said, that can be seen as just "in house" ways we play, and other players may play peacfully if not from our group....

i guess the real point of violence is the fact that all damage can and will kill you if rolled well...its almost like everyone stays at the same "danger of dieing" level as a first level player in D&D....everyone is subject to fatal wounds, or damage that can kill in 1-3 shots....like real life....most people dont get hit more the 1-3 shots without suffering death or serious wounds.

the characture sheet also has damage for every aspect of in-game damage...mental, physical, blood, bone, nerve, respitory, etc....all weapons damage diffrent parts of this system.

but again...players may play peacfully. but thats the players.

the rules, the story and the realm you play in is NATRAULLY violent...everything in the book details the way the worlds work in BB, how violence is everywhere....if people can kill you wih a single shot....the your in trouble, you need to be violent to not suffer that sort of death....

alot of players have coined the phrase "meat grinder" when sent on  a mission.

there ARE rules on making a player a ledgend actually...and yes, players who die the worst of deaths are often saluted for all games to come....and yes we all have had brutal deaths that are still talked about today, years after it went down.

the whole "my arm got cut off, dont get blood on the access panle" thing you said, was so much like what actually goes on in BB that i felt you must have played....

got 3 more minutes....

the game "can" be played peacfully id assume, but the damage system/combat system almost always causes fatalities or crippling effects...the game is set to hurt....and it hurts.

the games text does alot of disscussion on "cut throat" play, and what its benefits are...as well as what downfalls may come your way for being too "cut throat".....

reveng? o god yes....the reveng factor is backed up both in rules and in the player's mind from get-go....how many times have i held grudges agaisnt a characture that killed my last guy i was playing? only to come in with a pre-determination to kill that rat-asshole with my next FCO i bring into play...y'see, the game has an indepth rule system that actually allows OOC knowledge, yes yes, you actually ALLOWED to benefit from such info that you shouldnt know....there are rules that limit what kind of OOC knowledge your allowed to use, and what kind you cant...but if im pissed cus you killed my last guy, bet your ass i may hold a grudge and kill you with my next guy....this is condisered "cheesy" or "metagaming" in more civil games..but in BB, thats just par for the course and players are not to be punished for such actions.

the game's level of violence is backed up by the text...and once players see what kind of shit they can get away with, what kind os serious damage u can put on a player, and how fun it is to see somone's pelvis shatter into fragments, reducing him to a hover-chair for life...or worse...a crawling freek....then they fall into suit quickly..getting "blood thirsty" for blood bounty.

i understand your curiousity on if its all due to "our table manners" but i assure you..the game has be tested with groups of new people without my normal group dozens of times...it always turns into a blood fest...it has to...cus a peacful player almost always gets "face fucked" or "ripped apart" by the NPCs alone...

to survive such a combat system..you have to be ruthless.

Are characters able to be honorable?

But more importantly: Do you have a game mechanic that drives the players into a frenzy? To get into the game, it seems as if you'd need to froth blood from your very own mouth, rather than simulate your character being blood thirsty. A mechanic involving the player to do something, from yelling, to pounding, etc, could bring a non-violent player, into the mindset of the characters.

Next: Do girls play? ;)

Hi Sifolis,

(Sorry about the typo in your screen name in my previous post.)

Thanks, those were some pretty informative responses. It sounds like you've got the ultra-violence pretty well integrated into the system. I like the idea of weapons and monsters doing specific gory damage, rather than generic damage (such as hit points) or randomly varying damage (such as in critical hit tables).

Sifolis wrote: reveng? o god yes....the reveng factor is backed up both in rules and in the player's mind from get-go....how many times have i held grudges agaisnt a characture that killed my last guy i was playing? only to come in with a pre-determination to kill that rat-asshole with my next FCO i bring into play...y'see, the game has an indepth rule system that actually allows OOC knowledge, yes yes, you actually ALLOWED to benefit from such info that you shouldnt know....there are rules that limit what kind of OOC knowledge your allowed to use, and what kind you cant...but if im pissed cus you killed my last guy, bet your ass i may hold a grudge and kill you with my next guy....this is condisered "cheesy" or "metagaming" in more civil games..but in BB, thats just par for the course and players are not to be punished for such actions.

but as you said, that can be seen as just "in house" ways we play, and other players may play peacfully if not from our group....

there ARE rules on making a player a ledgend actually...and yes, players who die the worst of deaths are often saluted for all games to come....and yes we all have had brutal deaths that are still talked about today, years after it went down.

the whole "my arm got cut off, dont get blood on the access panle" thing you said, was so much like what actually goes on in BB that i felt you must have played....

we have had many girls play BB, but we only have one in our weekly group now....shes not your "average" girl of barbie-lore....shes one kick ass chick.

the rule book plainly states that the game is violent and that its a direct slap to the normal-rpg game....when i say "peaceful play" is possible, i say it as the devil's advocate....much like id say D&D is possible to be played without swords, or vampire would be possible without sucking blood...it is indeed possible...but if your gunna play BB like a friendly game, why did you pick the game?

its funny u mention a training video...in the discription of the FCO (in the book) you are assumed to have watched a 6 hour video before you signed your FCO license...we dont have a "tangible" video...but it is a mentioned game detail that every player has watched a 6 hour video that shows FC work to be deadly.

dont get me wrong, there are "hit-point" type damages in the game...but thats only for Palsic-weapon-fire (think laser that doesnt burn you), Palsic fire does not rip or burn skin, but it does take away damage points....but, bludgeioning, slicing-cutting, never damage, bone damage and mental damage are also equally used systems of damage in game, and they work off physical gore and bodily harm.

hall of fame? yes...seeing as anyone who plays BB for more then a year will possibly goe through 20-50 FCOs, a hall of fame gets quite large, quickly....there are no "levels", you dont magically gain levels by winning, or surviving...you do get paid, gear, ability to raise stats, skills and abilities...but no levels....the main thing that makes you a ledgend at the table is "how many game runs have you survived". right now the longest run FCO lasted 8 full games (it is possible to have 3 games and a half, or a quarter-game-run)...the second longest runner was 6 games.

the FCO line of work is not somthing one signs up to do for life...most people are assumed to 'Run skips' (adventure as an FCO) for 1-2 runs...and then they retire. y'see in the BB universe most people who work a normal job get paid about1-2 credits a week, and thats enough to survive....a typical FCO run (or skip) pays anywhere from 10,000c - 100,000c and up. people choose to join a FCO agency to make big money fast...

there are also fans who watch FCO statistics, buying collector cards n figures, they are alot like fan-boy startrek lovers, or comic book reading fanatics...they follow the FCO's carreer, and this makes it so your FCO gets famous the more runs he goes on.

the 8 game runner ended his carreer with over 12-million credits in his bank, a slew of blast-proof-homes that were very high-class and well protected. he was on TV and pretty much seen as a role modle for kids. he was getting 500,000c per game due to contracts with merch-dealers who were selling shoes, weapons and cereals under his name. he was offered a political job as a city-block mayor (a single city block can harbor over 5 million people mind you....buildings can reach heights of 3-6 miles high). and the rules back this up....the more runs you get, the more loyal fans you get, the more money you get, the more public love you aquire. it all happens quick for a FCO who stays running...but as all FCOs know, the most famous saying between them is

"you cant run forever"

they all know this..the danger level (no matter what) is high (50-80% death rate in their line of work). there is no getting around the fact that if your hit by a bat...it has a chance to shatter or break the limb it hits, and that a single bolt-bullet in the head kills most people without without a save-roll (of course there have been plenty of players with high enough Ballz-score to have bullets bounce off them like superman)...

anyway....heres somthing  havant shared yet...a part that makes BB fun as hell....ready?

you play in a "universe" thats huge...here in this space, there are countless forms of life, all are the desendents of those who fled the Old-verse to live in the New-verse (those who havnt followed from the first posts...the old universe has been destroyed in a war).
You get to invent and create your race (there are rules to do this...and you can have a ball rolling your FCOs and making there race up on the spot)
You design how it looks, how it talks, everything..you get to choose from evolutionary elements and abilities (night-sight, wings, tail etc).

you race is almost gone...you are probally one of the last of your kind, and the government classes races at the brink of exstintion to be Class-A (Almost gone). you probally will never see another of your race ever. thats how rare you are.

Now...alot of players often just say "i look just like THIS guy from THAT movie"!!!, thats fine....i personally like inventing very possible life forms with cool self-made looks and style...but im not innocent in the "media stealing" of a characture's design...ive played FCOs who acted and looked like the following....for fun.
Big bird
Cobra commander
Under dog
Darth vader
Tom cruiz (dont ask)
the guy up my street who runs the corner store
A 5ft tall smurf...

ive played, even myself, as an FCO. theres never 2 FCOs of the same race...Not "player FCOs", alot of NPC FCOs share races...thas becuase as a Player your forced to playing a class A race...they are not.
Ill discribe a really good game group i onced GM-ed for....these guys kicked ass together.
Kedishev-Dox (grey skinned self made race. tech-mage who infact was he 8-game-runner)
Christ - who looked just like jesus ...and was a Fanatic (the class that summons divine powers)
Ronald regan- you got it..and the kid did a great impression of him....he was a Voodooer
Bruce Wee- looked just like bruce lee. and was stacked with martial art skills and sword styles...he was a space ninja
Murry Mc-murder (a legendary 5 game runner), a lepechuan with a thirst for blood and gold...thats all he did, was kill for gold...his game runs were due to a certain weapon that he abused each game, hey that allowed, youll die..watch.

that group rulled...and i watched each one die over time...Once Dox fell, it was all down hill...Murry still lives actually..but the kid who played him moved to newyork with his mother at the time..he still calls me, years later, saying "if i come down i can play murry in the 4th addition game right? I tell him..yes, but i gotta change him to fit the new rules"

ok this post has gotten way to long...

ill go now...

thanks for asking stuff.

"Designed today"
24 Flesh spells that needed revising. and sold ferg a new computer.

Done today.

The rest of the Flesh spell...over 150 of them all finished and disgustingly "blood bounty"...most old, just tweeked to fit the new rule system...some new, just cus we couldnt hel but add a few...and some once removed from another addition but put back into the new addition by popular demand....it took for ever to regulate and police some of the spells for the new rules..but i can say finally...done with that.

Now...we are working on the Tech-spells...jesus....over 150 spells that only work on technology. hope to bang it all out this week...busy week, but always got time to work with our RPG-child .

A actual play of BB has begun its length in the AP forum. Its long...its horribly banged out and flitty, but i have 15 minutes to spear...hey. yknow...

Blood Bounty Quote:
Todd: Can i make a guy whos just a huge penis!?
GM: um..yes...but you want arms and legs right?
Todd: Of course! what do you think im stupid?
GM: You want to play a walking dick...
Todd: So?

Just an update on progress.

all the Tech spells have been revised and finished for editing...thats 120 spells. and one of our artists (the one who did art for white-wolf) has delivered 5 pictures for the book...looking wonderful. its good to have an artist who has done work professionally for a real RPG company...i just want to say THANKS FRANK for playing BB for all these years, and donating your art for free.

peace.

after a long 11 hour play test last night (of the new combat system) ive come to understand three horrible points of interest to our design.

1- the damage system is too quick. the 3rd addition rules handled much better, at the expense of more math, but it still seemed to "feel" better and more fluid.

2- the entire 4th addtion must be tweeked to correct this gross oversight...that means two months of work will be mostly scrapped....that sucks..but hey...ive been here before.

4- Bolt weapons need to  be worked on. the old system made bolt weapons very fun, and very "real feeling". as the rules stand right now, they seem to be only a short cut to killing your enemy.

this is bad news for the BB team...a solid blow to the game and its new rule matrix...we are left with two choices...leave the game as third addition, or change fourth addition to work better. though the "lazy" side of me says "fuck it...stick with the old rules...save time...save energy" the lazy side never wins..so im left with option B...."re-tweek the rules...fix the mistakes....move towards a better 4th addition system"

ill have to figure out how to streamline the combat system....the damage is far too quick and far too deadly....yes, BB is a deadly game...but more then half of the FCOs are dieing in one-two-shots...that leaves not alot of battle time..just quick one shots that either kill or dont....

i hope to fix this with the help of the team within the next week....it will be alot of work....but BB has been a never-ending hunt for perfection, and we refuse to settle for either third addition rules, or a broken combat system.

peace

ok...no sleep, a bunch of bad-food, 2 blunts and a room full of brainstorming....and we have hopfully "fixed" the oversight.

even better, it only took a minor adjustment to two major technolgies that deal with damage, and a new starting Bloodshed increase.

the damage system wasnt the problem, a small miscalculation on "how much" damage would be taken per round, was.

so...with a lil trouble, and alot of typing...we have fixed the numbers and intend on play testing this weekend.

since i doubt anyone reads this or cares more then to "hate" the thred...i wont watse any time getting deeper into the problems and how we hope to have fixed them.

peace

Sifolis, I know this might seem like an odd question, but, other than publishing, what's the main goal of the 4th edition of Blood Bounty?

Are you seeking to streamline it? Simplify it? What are the the things you're trying to fix? If you can give us an idea about that, we can give you some ideas.

From what I can see there was an issue with how quickly players were able to kill folk in combat, is that right? So you've changed some numbers with regards to a particular weapon system, and changed character's ability to withstand damage (that's what Bloodshed does, isn't it? I've been out of the country and away from the internet for a while, so I'm probably not as clear as I should be), and that's slowed it down.

Why was this important?

The main goal is to see the book in a finished, professional form, ready for publish yes.

whats with the tweeking, and why is it important to me and the team?

well, the third addition played smoothly, and resolved much of the 2nd addition problems....the problem with 3rd-E was there was too much math. people had to work with large numbers to calculate damage and skills and what not...so this eddition is all about turning those numbers into small numbers....less math, easyer math etc. why? cus the game's goal is to be easy for anyone to play...to get the players who dont normally play RPGs playing BB. if D&D is a fine meal, then see BB as fast food thats just bad for you.

the 3rd-e was great....but the math was a little bit too much.,...not enough to kill you..but too much for your average stoner or raver....we are trying to get single-to-double-digit simple math to be the back bone of the game, while still keeping the indepth play and fun battle systems ....

the recent play tests are having battles that last 1-3 rounds....usually killing a opponent within 1-2 hits....too fast....not enough battle time to really use or benefit from some of the cool in-battle functions that the 3-e was really all about.  by bringing numbers down so low, things have sped up greatly...some math is far better then the old system..infact, alot of it is...but people died too quickly...."who cares if i have in-battle medical skills? when i get to you, your dead, and its too late"

the new Bloodshed and armor equasions are a little higher now....we made the mistake of bringing those numbers too low...in turn, losing alot of the battle-play options and back-and-forth fun of battle.....so, the next play test will prolly be this week, we will see if this fixes it.

im not the "number guy" of the group....i dnt understand bell-curves and %-rates as much as my co-creators. so they fixed it mostly based on the group's advice and our understanding of what 3rd-e was and what made it great....

i dunno if that makes sense. but it does to us.

anyway....ty for offering help and posting in this crappy thred....