I am working my way through Sorcerer's Soul, but since I seldom read mystery novels I thought I would use The Big Lebowski instead.  It's a "detective story" though certainly an off-beat one.  I'm breaking this down slightly differently, because my HTML skills don't permit me to draw little lines of connection in this window.

The Dude Abides
The assumption here is that the Dude is a sorcerer, and Walter is a Passing demon with a Need to win idiotic arguments.  Donny is their friend, whom Walter likes to boss around.

The Lebowski Family
We'll begin with the Big Lebowski: he's a crippled Korean War veteran who married into money, and like a lot of people who get rich overnight he insists that he earned it through hardwork.  He's a blowhard.

Mrs. Lebowski had a lot of money--her father must have started a number of companies.  She probably got suckered into the Big Lebowski's bluster and married him.  She died sometime later, presumably of natural causes.

Maude Lebowski is the daughter of the prior two characters.  She's in her prime, was brought up in a fancy Swiss finishing school, and now is an avant-garde feminist artist.  She's frank, intelligent, lusty, determined, and efficient--and can come across as either queenly or terrifying depending on your level of self-confidence.  When she's not hobnobbing with social elites or creating aggressively vaginal artwork, Maude has more than enough brains to manage her mother's estate, and makes sure her father, whom she regards as a self-important buffoon, doesn't muck anything up.

Bunny Lebowski--a/k/a Bunny LaJoya, a/k/a Fawn Knudson--grew up on a North Dakota farm, but ran away from home last year to Hollywood, where she hoped to become, like, an actress.  Bunny is sexpot in her late teens or early 20's, and ended up in pornographic movies produced by Jackie Treehorn.  Somehow she hooked up with the Big Lebowski and they got married.  This incensed Maude, and probably complicated Brandt's life as well.  Bunny is vulgar, thoughtless, irresponsible, and believes she can vamp her way out of any trouble.  But she owes lots of money to Jackie Treehorn.

Brandt is Mr. Lebowski's assistant/major domo, and has been for at least 5-10 years.  He comes across as an anally retentive sycophant, but he's got enough smarts to play games with the family fortune.

The Gangsters
The chief of this bunch is Jackie Treehorn, who produces smutty movies and magazines; in 1991 he's aiming to get into Internet porn too.  He throws swingin' beach parties, keeps the Malibu police chief in his pocket, and might run some casinos; he might have some indirect ties to narcotics as well.  Jackie is a clever guy, and a ruthless man of business with an entourage of leg-breakers.  He affects to regard pornography as an artform in sad decline: whatever sleazy stuff goes on in the background, he makes an effort to come across as a suave Hugh Hefner type.  Jackie got Bunny her first job in the porn industry; she owes him a lot of money.

Karl Hungus--possibly a/k/a Ulli, I have a hard time figuring out the deal with this character--is a German nihilist weirdo who recorded some "techno-pop" album a decade ago, but wound up working in the porn industry where he met Jackie and Bunny, whom he sponges off of.  His former bandmates are some kind of philosophico-terror-crime group.

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Sorcerer-izing and Humanity discussions later, I hope.  Am I doing anything wrong so far?

Oh, incidentally I'm working this through as an example and self-test, rather than for play.

Hiya,

Well, are we discussing the map technique or the film/story itself? If it's the former, you're spending too much time paraphrasing/summarizing the latter. If it's the latter, then you're butchering it slightly.

Let's do the film/story first. One key feature of the detective stories I use in Soul is that the real crime and the legal crime are rarely the same thing. In this film, the real crime has nothing to do with kidnapping. That's a fake crime.

Karl Hungus, Jackie Treehorn, and Bunny are all part of the fake crime. Never mind any details about them or any of the smoke-screen they set up on purpose or by accident. A real crime is that Lebowski (not the Dude) is trying to milk the kidnapping for everything it's worth. However, it's a very piddly crime. He's not a killer or a psycho or anything like that, just a very pathetic man who likes to browbeat others and is terrified of not being thought of as a big rich guy.

There's your situation for the movie - a very incompetent pseudo-crime (the "nihilists" did not kidnap Bunny) which plays into a rather lame and small chicanery, which will implode on its own because it requires the pseudo-crime to be a real one. I do think the movie ends up having a moral heart, but it's not to be found in the back-story at all, unlike most stories of this kind. It's only found among the friendship of the three guys, which is why I think your assessment of Walter as demonic is 180 degrees wrong in an important way.

To discuss the specific protagonist and his various running-around that make up the plot of the film is not to the point of the exercise, so let's not get distracted by it.

Anyway, so now what? The relationship map is very, very simple - Lebowski (not the dude) + wife (dead) make a line to Maude. Lebowski also has a line to Bunny, who is herself then connected to Jackie Treehorn and, without being too difficult about it, Karl Hungus/Ulli.

I will resist the temptation to be completely vulgar and instead suggest that Karl Hungus and Maude are not connected by a line. Everyone else in the story is a "twig" off a box.

Best,
Ron

Ron wrote:
Let's do the film/story first. One key feature of the detective stories I use in Soul is that the real crime and the legal crime are rarely the same thing. In this film, the real crime has nothing to do with kidnapping. That's a fake crime...A real crime is that Lebowski (not the Dude) is trying to milk the kidnapping for everything it's worth. However, it's a very piddly crime. He's not a killer or a psycho or anything like that, just a very pathetic man who likes to browbeat others and is terrified of not being thought of as a big rich guy.

Hello,

That's my jaw, dropping.

The only characters in the film I'd put at high Humanity (indicating a history of Humanity-positive action) are the Dude and Maude. Maude's father is quite likely at 0.

The Dude abides because his Humanity is at such a safe level and he never behaves in a way that forces a Humanity check.

One of his primary features is the ability to sympathize with anyone, even someone who's driving his or her own Humanity down through the floor.

Best,
Ron

Ron wrote:
The only characters in the film I'd put at high Humanity (indicating a history of Humanity-positive action) are the Dude and Maude. Maude's father is quite likely at 0.

Hiya,

That's all what-if-what-if, James. Much like "if you held a rock in the air and then let go, what it didn't fall?"

The Humanity definition has to be sincere. That does not mean it has to map directly to the actual values of the actual people - I see no point at all to asking everyone, "So, you agree with this?" as a starting point for play. Nor does it have to be preachy and strident and Sunday-school. It has to be sincere in the sense that a good piece of fictional art, of any kind, must be sincere - its value must be found, isolated, and expressed through the fictional events (including consequences).

Artists talk in these terms and occasionally are not full of shit about it. The best reference I can give you on this topic is the story Talisman, one of the trade paperbacks from the comic Finder, by Alison Speed MacNeil.

So what about "funny"? I think you have it all backwards. I submit to you that The Big Lebowski would be emphatically unfunny, even perceived as highly vicious, by people who sincerely place high value on things like "respectability among the squares." I think that it gains both its strength as a story per se, and its humor, from an audience/author understanding that such respect is (or can be) of little value. The drive for such respect damages Humanity in the story.

I mean, do you see Mr. Lebowski (not the Dude) as a good person? Do you want to play in a game of Sorcerer in which anyone sees him as a good person? And I don't mean "well, he's not actually evil."

Best,
Ron

I'll be looking forward to R-maps for such hard-boiled thrillers as Fargo and Raising Arizona.

The Dude abides because his Humanity is at such a safe level and he never behaves in a way that forces a Humanity check.

(Edit: about the Dude, I guess I should say he might have had a demon once. If you're thinking of this story in terms of sorcery, the Dude could have a decently high Lore score, I think.)

Wow, this is one of those moments when I get angry at the University of Illinois English department for giving me a degree without conferring a technical vocabulary to address these topics.

The Dude, Who Is Actually Pretty Incidental
So, the Dude has become sort of a side-issue; I mentioned him initially to show how I think a sorcerer might work.  Sorcerer's Soul implies that though detective fiction is useful for setting up a backstory, the detective himself is seldom an integral part of that story--he gets swapped out.  There's no need to focus on his stats, etc.

Walter, and Why I Say He's a Demon (Also Incidental)
I'll be the first to admit that Walter is a loveable character, but that doesn't mean he can't be demonic in a plot sense.  Every time he shows up, he does one of three things: (a) gives the Dude bad advice, (b) tries to "protect" the Dude but goes too far and makes things worse, or (c) goes apeshit over seemingly random stuff.  If he ain't a demon he ought to be.

Regardless of how he and the Dude met in the first place, their relationship now is founded on two things--Walter protecting the Dude from physical harm (and intellectual error), and the Dude managing Walter's excesses; the currency of exchange is ridiculous arguments that nobody else would have time for.  At the same time, the Dude is flattered that there's a friend who will go to the wall for him, and Walter is glad to have someone to safeguard.  A demon isn't always reliable, but who says you can't be friends?

Humanity is What's Valued -- by Us or Them?

I submit to you that The Big Lebowski would be emphatically unfunny, even perceived as highly vicious, by people who sincerely place high value on things like "respectability among the squares." I think that it gains both its strength as a story per se, and its humor, from an audience/author understanding that such respect is (or can be) of little value

Hello,

do the values cherished by a fictionalized society have anything to do with Humanity?

Ah. To continue, "the Dude abides" is such a statement. It doesn't say why or how the Dude might abide (i.e make it through the day with a whole skin despite all evidence that he won't). It doesn't say why the Dude is right and nearly everyone else in the film is wrong.

But a moment's reflection explains it, easily. The Dude thinks people should be decent to each other. You don't piss on another guy's rug, and if your existence got another guy's rug pissed on, then you oughtta reach out a little and help. You don't play music someone else hates. You don't spill others' drinks, man! He's willing to offer a little lesson to people who have trouble with this concept, but he feels it so strongly that he never manages to go into "beat down teaching mode" long enough.

That's all. It is a simple. light movie because of the simplicity of that message. Note that only one guy in the movie gets laid, and note who.

Although ... do note as well, that the Dude and Walter manage to get their friend - the only guy who totally agrees with the Dude and would never hurt a fly - killed. The world can be hard, even (or especially) when absurd, and meeting it with hardness (like biting off its ear) has repercussions. Donny's death really isn't very funny.

Best,
Ron

P.S. Your argument for Walter-the-demon is sound. I think it might even be a matter of protecting the world from Walter, as the reason the Dude would stay Bound to him.

Very nice thread James, it is so easy to simply watch the movie again and be able to follow along in the discussion, as opposed to catching up with some book you've never read.

Ron, your ability to break down and discuss the basics of a story are quite impressive, and I agree with Larry that we should continue with dissecting other movies and turning them into R Maps with good backstories. I'll see if I can give Rounders a go...

Back on topic, I think you've nailed Humanity, and I certainly buy Walter as being the demon in a Sorcerized version of the story.

TTFN,

Yoki

Of course, it's a film, not a Sorcerer game. So Walter could function both as a demon and as a human in story terms.

Now that we've hashed out the basics of "The Big Lebowski," it's time to take some liberties with it and customize it for game play, to the point where it may become unrecognizable. 

I do not have my copy of Sorcerer's Soul with me, but I hope that people will correct me if I do things wrong.  The whole point of this thread is for me to learn!

Setting: Look and Feel
England in the 1830's.  Think of the works of Jane Austen, the Bronte sisters, George Eliot, and above all Charles Dickens.  The Romantic Period is wheezing to a close ("Shelley abides"), and the Industrial Revolution is in full swing.  The British navy rules the seven seas, the cities belch with smoke and coal, and fine ladies and gentlemen while their time away on country manors, often living above their means.  Justice is stern and self-righteous. 

Humanity
Human Decency.  (This is not the same as being "proper.")  You generally lose Humanity through callous, heartless or powerfully indecent behavior.

Demons: two options
In a more restrained approach, "demons" would be people who have lost the faculty for human sentiment.  A coldblooded murderer, a merciless judge, or a scandalous ladykiller might function as demons.  In this scheme, "A Christmas Carol" is the story of a demon becoming human.

Alternately, given that Gothic literature was pretty popular around this time, you could say that demons are literal hellspawn.  But this is less interesting to me, so I'll point out the fork in the road and go my own way.

The Relationship Map and Backstory
(Please Note - For ease of comprehension I am using the names from the movie.  Obviously they can be renamed for play.  I recommend Chris Pound's name generator, which contains a Dickens list.)

The Big Lebowski married into the landed gentry after a life of accomplishment, but it's all a hoax.  Maybe he was a captain of a slave ship which sank, leaving virtually no evidence?

Brandt was Lebowski's sidekick in his earlier misadventurous phase, now a butler.  If Lebowski ever turns on him, Brandt will blackmail him with information about the slave ship.

Maude, Lebowski's daughter, resented her father's conservative bluster and ended up as a radical: Wollestoncraft, Shelly, Byron, etc.  She publishes essays on the plight of women and children in English society.  Lebowski has written her out of his will.  She has become somewhat infatuated by the dashing revolutionary Karl. 

The Knudsons live in the village near the Lebowski manor.  Mr. Knudson works in the mines, and drinks a lot ever since his daughter ran away.

Fawn Knudson - a/k/a Bunny - ran away to London, fell afoul of Jackie Treehorn, and was married off to Lebowski.  No one knows that Bunny was originally a resident of the village. Bunny is probably a demon, though she could be redeemed.

Jackie Treehorn undergoes a sex change and becomes a madam who runs a gambling house in London, and has pretenses of running a (dingy) salon.  She might be Brandt's estranged wife?   

Mrs. Lebowski is not dead.  She's locked in the attic and mad as a hatter.  She may be a "demon" contained in the attic.  I suppose Maude only knows that "mother was not herself at the end," but the 'death' itself happened while Maude was on the continent. 

Karl Hungus is a Communist, or at any rate knows Marx personally (he was living in London around this time).  He's a lower class worker who frequented Treehorn's place in the early days and fell obsessively in love with Bunny.  He's tracked her to the village; he's also organizing the mine workers against Lebowski. 

(To say it again: the Dude and Walter aren't meant to be part of this story, but it would be easy to turn the Dude into a middle-aged Romantic poet type and Walter into a daft ex-navy man.)

Crimes Against Decency
* Lebowski was a slave trader
* Brandt and/or Lebowski locked Mrs. Lebowski in the attic
* The conditions in the mine are unconscionably bad
* Bunny ran off, and now ignores her parents
* Treehorn pimped out this innocent country girl
* Lebowski has written his daughter out of his will

But these all seem kind of weak.  Any thoughts on beefing this up with some juicy sins?