I have two nice gaming stores in my extended travel range.  They're certainly not close enough for me to drop by on a whim (about an hour travel to either), but they're close enough that I constantly think "I should get Capes onto those shelves, and demo it in-store a few times."

So I don't have the best possible connection to the game-stores:  the recognition of being a long-time, committed customer.  Nor am I likely to achieve it.  What are my other options?

In this thread I'd like to hear from:

• Actual retailers, telling how a game designer could make such an offer to them in a way that would make it easy and enjoyable for them to be interested.
• Publishers who have success stories in this regard, and are willing to share their techniques.

I fit into:
Publishers who have success stories in this regard, and are willing to share their techniques.

I have done this at about a half dozen different FLGS over the past year now. I have hit three different cities and spanned about 200 miles. Everyone of them have been more than receptive and purchased copies from me sight unseen (still in shrink wrap). Most of them I stopped in and asked for the owner/manager and then just struck up a conversation with them. I told them who I was and what I produced. I asked about their customers and what they are focused on. Then asked to setup a demo the following weekend. All were easy to get along with and didn't hesitate.

I prefer the face to face kind of meeting myself so I never bothered calling ahead before my first meeting.

One thing I have done, is to go back and revisit them. Both to look and buy something but also to return with comp copies (a thank you for helping me out).

You've found that the owner/manager is generally there when you walk in out of the blue?  That's interesting data in itself.  Do you usually do weekends or weekdays?

Tony,

My advice is to go in on Wednesday in the late morning early afternoon to find the manager.  I've always had success on that time with stores because it is the day when new books come in and often the people with the purchasing power are there to make damn sure the order came in and was in, well, order.

I find also, just walking in and being honest about why I am there, with a couple copies in my hands, makes it a bit easier to get them to consider it.  I don't go into a whole sell shpeel.  Instead I put it in their hands, give them a brief lowdown about the game and ask them if they have any questions.

Keith

Tony,

I've spoken with two local retailers about stocking and selling My Life with Master. One, the only remaining decent game store around here didn't even let me get the game out of my folder. (The unspoken message: "If your game was worth my attention, I'd have seen it in the catalog I get from my distributor.") The owner of the other, a fervently indie comic store with an uninspired shelf of d20 titles, is not a roleplayer. And my conversation with him was very poorly timed. His experience with that shelf of games had soured him on the retail prospects of RPGs, and he'd just placed the whole shelf on clearance. If only he was a roleplayer I'm certain a conversation about Brian Hibbs would have sold him on indie RPGs. But no such luck.

Which isn't to say that My Life with Master isn't available in stores. They're just stores that approached me.

Going to retailers about My Life with Master is psychologically and emotionally the hardest thing I've done as a publisher. From my perspective, the 50% discount I give to retailers is me giving them free money. (No retailer who's stocked the game has failed to sell through a purchase of six copies.) But clearly they don't see it that way. And try as I might, I can't wrap my brain around what they could be thinking. (The businessman who despite a shrinking revenue stream believes he still knows how best to stock his shelves is on a short road to out-of-business.)

So, I dunno. My advice is to let them come to you.

But that's the advice of someone who hasn't had success at the direct pitch. So probably you should listen to the Keiths.

(And if you're interested in the advice of someone with experience pitching to comic store owners, here's what Will Terrell, My Life with Master's cover artist, has to say.)

Paul

No real particular time for me, just whenever I felt like stopping by. I guess I was lucky. But Keith is right about Wed. The two FLGS always get their orders in on Wed. Whenever I order something I am there waiting for the shipment just to make sure it came in too. Most of what I order is odd, older stuff that someone still happen to have stock on so I like to verify it shipped.

And I only took three copies into the store with me each time (left two boxes in the car though). Each time they had no problem buying those 3.

Players are a great foot in the door.
With Twilight, thats how I'm spread out along Michigan here- netted a few players, who then took it to the stores and said "Dude, this game rocks, AND I know the creator!" Ron had spoken to me at GenCon about selling myself as a designer, that this is MY game, and I directed everything to do with it, and it really works on players and storeowners, even if it didn't fly for me at the con. As it stands, there are two "local" game stores with upcoming "grand opening" events who not only want the game, but  want me there for the event as a mini celebrity of sorts.

* For those that know Michigan, I live along the coast in Ludington; I have play groups who seek me out in Cadillac, Big Rapids, and the one store is opening in Mt. Pleasent. Not sure on the milage, but each city is a good couple hours drive in any direction.

Paul wrote:
Going to retailers about My Life with Master is psychologically and emotionally the hardest thing I've done as a publisher. From my perspective, the 50% discount I give to retailers is me giving them free money. (No retailer who's stocked the game has failed to sell through a purchase of six copies.) But clearly they don't see it that way. And try as I might, I can't wrap my brain around what they could be thinking. (The businessman who despite a shrinking revenue stream believes he still knows how best to stock his shelves is on a short road to out-of-business.)

I owned a game store for just under six years, having sold it at the begining of 2005 to write full time.

I bought locally designed/produced games even if they were bad--unless they were just so horrible that I'd be ashamed to put them on my shelf.  I figured that the cost of one or two copies was worth the additional attention I'd get from that creator, plus it's a competitive edge (or denying competitors the competitive edge of having it while I don't).

I'd also try to talk him into doing demos, conventions, character creation sessions, or whatever interaction I could get with other players.  You don't have to marry the store, but a scheduled demo within a month, plus a follow-up at some later date is great for both parties. 

It helps if you have a couple of products available, especially a freebie that you can give as a participation prize for the demos (I love Mongoose's $2 adventure!).

Now if you're not local, you have a steeper hill to climb.  I want to see a) production values comparable to what's already on my shelves, 2) back cover text comparable in quality and appeal to what's on my shelves, and 3) a profitable discount.  The problem with #3 is that for a single copy, one of us has to pay shipping, and I'm not willing to experiment with a a large number of unknown RPGs.   

You see, retailers don't make money on a single RPG.  Really.  Let's say I sell 100 copies of your game in a year at $20 each, making it my best-selling RPG product of the year in unit volume (except the year of a D&D revision, that is).  That's less than 1% of my annual revenues from sales.  I sold more card sleeves than that, and I ran a well-balanced store with regard to RPGs, CCGs, and Minis (about 30% each).  More likely, if an RPG product is successful, I'll sell 6-8 fairly quickly, and maybe 1-2 per year after that. 

Retailers want product lines.  Once I sell an RPG, I want to be able to add on the easy follow-up sales of adventures, sourcebooks, and a DM screen.  Who interests me more?  The manufacturer who tells me that any new customers he brings me will be worth $20 each, or the one who tells me new customers will be worth $150 each? 

TonyLB wrote:
You've found that the owner/manager is generally there when you walk in out of the blue? 

Well...

I was holding off from commenting on this thread because I do not know how useful my input could be. I think our current situation is vastly different than that of the other publishers here.

For us, our we still support 5 product lines, but it is our historical board game line that generates the most interest. So for the most part we seek out stores that are most interested in selling that type of product. We've learned that perhaps as much as 8 or 9 out of 10 stores simply are not our target market. And chasing after those stores will be a huge waist of time. As our company profile increases, we figure that next 10% of stores that are not our market today might become our market tomarrow.

With regards the stores we do think are our market we take a two step approach to making a connection. First we have a little four page color brochure that we send to them along with a welcome letter and a copy of our black and white catalog. The brochure gives an overview of our company, lists the two sets of buying terms we offer retailers, provides an very brief overview of our product lines and shows product covers, and on the last page provides a complete list of available SKUs. Now, so far, this alone has led to zero retailers initiating futher contact with us. After the brochure has reached them, then we do follow up phone calls. The first call usually does nothing but bring their attention to the brochure, which the often have not read yet. On rare occassions we'll get down and dirty and talk about the products and our retail programs. But most often it leads to us trying to set a time to do a follow up call.

I have stores where we have done over a dozen calls to so far over a 3-6 month period that I still have on our "potential" list. Many times the key person I need to speak with is not in. Other times they are manning the counter or are otherwise occupied and can not speak at length. The key to doing calls such as this is to always be polite and to make sure you get the name of the ultimate decision maker. Once you have that, just call once in a while, always calling back at or around roughly scheduled times. Try to reference your past conversations and get back to the topic of their review of what you have to offer them. If you stay on that course, you will either get a new customer or be able to effectively scratch the store off your prospecting list.

What I don't do:

1) I do not send samples. Why? Because for many retailers, they think manufacturers should have to nearly beg for their precious shelf space. It is a reflex statement for many  to ask for a product sample. We've done that in the past, but in all honesty, most samples never got looked at. Occassionally they get dumped on a shelf and sold, but it never occurs to such retailers to think to order more in order to sell  more. A lot of times samples are just dumped into a lap of some local customer. Unless that is a very vocal customer that also just happened to be interested in that game type or genre/theme, whatever, then your sample does no good. We have found samples are just not required to interest a store if your business and your business proposition are otherwise presented professionally. Those stores that think they can make money with that type of product, you have a chance of establishing a relationship with. However, this is even more important to understand. If the store does not believe they can make money with your product type, it does not matter how good the product is nor what kind of awesome sales track record you have elsewhere, you will be wasting your time trying to change their mind.

2) We very rarely do demos or run events. It has been our experience that for RPGs and board games, even a successful demo is not that efficient a use of your time. Especially if you have to travel a ways to do it. Why? Because most most RPG and board game events will rarely have more than 4-6 players. So you have the time required to design and perfect your event, the time to coordinate and set it up with a store or convention, the time to drive there, the time of hosting the event, driving back, and then following up with a store afterwards. That is a lot of time to dedicate towards getting only a small number of converts.

Yes, I am aware of and agree with the principle that games spread virally. But I just happen to believe that a good game can accomplish that on its own merely by being played by a person interested in that type of game/theme. They do not need me to hold their hand through the experience. So it is a simple matter of how many players and hence first time sales I can convert with my time. Conducting broader sweeping marketing efforts has provided us stronger returns on our time. So we don't use demos and such as a marketing tool to get a foothold into new stores.

I will say, however, we are looking to establish a demo program that can be conducted by our best stores. Where we provide incentives to the store to pass along to a dedicated fan of our products to work with the retailer to run events in that store for us. The idea being that the store handles most of this coordination, freeing us up from the time commitment to host this program. We just cover the cost of proving special bonuses and products.

Ultimatelty when it comes to marketing your company to a store, you have to figure out what your marketing strengths are. I really suggest people to read extensively on marketing in principle. You should establish the image you wish to project for your company and your products and the branding approach you should take. It is different for every company. For the Guild, since we have been publishing for 10+ years now, we opt to play up to our heritage and long publishing track record as our primary strength. We are a small company so still many retailers do not know who we are, and many who do know who we are still know little about us or our products. This is a marketing strength that makes many of them pause to take notice of us and the info we present to them.

Companies with less history and less of a catalog to offer will obviously have to find alternative means of creating an identity for themselves when approaching retailers. Hence why I said our case is somewhat different and I do not know how useful this info would be to the others here.

Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com

It's useful to me!

Chris Engle
Hamster Press = Engle Matrix Games

Well, I will relate what works for Linda and me and my own experiences. We maintain about an 80 store list but are always looking to expand it. This means, usually, cold calling although I try to avoid it, you can't.

So, I plan out points I want to cover. A list in no particular order. Something like:
Introduction
Product Awareness check (usually no)
Product inquiry (what RPGs do sell in store)
Product introduction
Demo kits, promo posters, i.e. what I can do to sell my stuff through your store
Co-op advertising (again, only if they are interested)
Terms (if interestested in direct) or Distro that carry HinterWelt Products

As Ryan said, you should be prepard to spread the above list across multiple calls. Also, if at all possible, be sensitive to the owner's time. Ask, frequently, if they need to go or if they are busy. Be prepared (at best) to have to wait on the line as the owner rings up a sale or (most likely) need to leave suddenly. Don't be offended. You are not their livelyhood.

Another point, introduse yourself (name and company) right at the get go. This will help any staff who answer the phone to direct your call. As Ryan pointed out, get to the buyer. Not always the same as the owner (but usually it is).

Rehearse your call with someone you know can play the part. Have them play the part of the following types:
Gabber: really wants to talk to you about anything but your game. Will go on adnauseum about the industry, WOTC, his cat, the neigbors, etc. They tend towards not talking about their store, their sales, the way your game could fit into the mix, or their customers unless you steer them.

The Businessman: All business and does not care what your game or system is about. Wants to know the easiest ways to get your game into his store and how many units it will sell. If it does not turn so many times in a year, he wont order it. Again, play to their strength and get them thinking in terms of you helping them sell your game. I tis easy if you practice and know how to push the conversationin the right direction.

The Haggard: Far to busy to talk to you. He wants every thing gelled down to one sentence. I usually deal with these folks by getting email or postal address, mailing them the info and then repeated follow-up calls.

There are many other types but those are the big ones I have encountered.

Bill