Topic: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
Started by: Tobaselly
Started on: 9/28/2005
Board: Indie Game Design
On 9/28/2005 at 8:00pm, Tobaselly wrote:
[Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
I was thinking of a basic narrative competative game that i'm calling Fate Walkers right now. There is no storyteller/GM person in the game and the game mechanics are half up in the air.
Fate Walkers is about the struggle between gods. Each player takes the role of a god struggling with his fellow gods to increase his influence and to dominate the other gods.
Gods attempt to increase the range of their influence, gain mortal and immortal followers, limit the influence of other gods, and subjugate the other gods. The game is "won" when a god subjugates all of the other gods.
Players control the actions of the god through turn based storytelling. Each player takes a turn telling about how is god is performing some action, or how some scene is wrought involving his god. Each action a god performs links to a base action with some game mechanics behind it. Actions where a player affects another player's god (by range of influence) other players can act on the scene and attempt to negate or alter parts of it with their followers. Conflict resolution is made using two concepts, Fate and Will.
Gods gather fate by gathering followers or inproving the faith of the followers. Gods gather Will by improving themselves. durinng conflinct resolution with another god fate or will are put at stake with the looser having their fate or will diminished. When a god's will has been reduced to nothing by another god they have been dominated and they have been subjugated by that god.
The Game is colored by god concept ( example: i want to be the god of death) , and the setting is non-destinct and should be agreed upon by all of the players before the session starts.
*grin* So what do you think? Has this been done before? Does it sound interesting/boring/fun?
On 9/28/2005 at 8:43pm, Halzebier wrote:
Re: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
I don't want to shoot down your idea, but I already see a potential problem. But perhaps you have an answer.
Tobaselly wrote: The game is "won" when a god subjugates all of the other gods. [...] When a god's will has been reduced to nothing by another god they have been dominated and they have been subjugated by that god.
Assuming multiple players, what do I get to do as a player once my god has been subjugated?
For instance, I could imagine that I continue to play my god, but now as part of a pantheon under the rule of the god who subjugated me. Still, what are my options here? Can I rebel? What kind of impact does my support have? And how do you avoid a domino effect where the first team of gods thus created quickly takes over the rest?
I could also imagine that the whole subjugation business is resolved more or less simultaneously (e.g. after having been tracked covertly until all players want to 'see', as in poker.)
My point is that each participant in the game needs to be involved in an interesting way right up to the end of the game.
(Come to think of it, I've seen many D&D games where people whose PCs have just died sit out the rest of the evening. If kibbitzing is allowed, that may be acceptable, but I'd worry about long stretches of time spent on the sidelines being built into the game as the default.)
I think you need to take your idea to the next level and start thinking about the actual mechanics. The feel of your game will flow from that. (I fear that may not be good advice, as ideally you should probably know which feel you are aiming for ... and then come up with conflicts and their mechanics to get that.)
Regards,
Hal
On 9/28/2005 at 9:14pm, Tobaselly wrote:
RE: Re: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
Halzebier wrote:
Assuming multiple players, what do I get to do as a player once my god has been subjugated?
For instance, I could imagine that I continue to play my god, but now as part of a pantheon under the rule of the god who subjugated me. Still, what are my options here? Can I rebel? What kind of impact does my support have? And how do you avoid a domino effect where the first team of gods thus created quickly takes over the rest?
hmm a subjugated god becomes a "minor" god of the dominating god until it has regained enough power and influence to break free( if it chooses to do so). but while a god is subjugated any god that god has subjugated or subjugates are considered towards the god that subugated the god. So if all of the other gods become part of your pantheon you win.
I can very quickly see the game breaking down into two+ sides viaing against each other, with the more players playing increasing the complexity of the game. I'll work out the actual game mechanics tonight. They should be fairly simple but i want to add a bit of a system where you can pass on Fate to allies.
On 9/28/2005 at 9:33pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Re: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
So, in theory, you would still be subjugating other gods even if subjugated yourself, with the thinking that if you ever do manage to get back out from under the other god, you'll have some of them for yourself? Is that it?
Yeah, we're going to have to see the mechanics on this... :-)
Mike
On 9/28/2005 at 9:44pm, Arturo G. wrote:
RE: Re: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
Hi there!
There is something here that worries me: Narrative and competitive.
I was planning to do something like that for the Ronnies but I saw some problems in that concept. If the narration is only adding color, there is not too much about competition between players. I think it is mainly only fortune, which is not nice in a competitive game. On the other hand, if narration implies credibility, and it can also affect mechanically, how to control a situation where two opposing players are competing? The one who narrates last has a big advantage, and in the way very nice ideas proposed by players will be systematically destroid by others. I can imagine it as frustrating.
Are you thinking in a system to control the credibility? Or whatever?
From my point of view Narrative and Competitive is a complicate combination.
Being completely unexpert in narrativist games I'm surely missing something.
Cheers,
Arturo
On 9/28/2005 at 10:49pm, Tobaselly wrote:
RE: Re: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
Mike wrote:
So, in theory, you would still be subjugating other gods even if subjugated yourself, with the thinking that if you ever do manage to get back out from under the other god, you'll have some of them for yourself? Is that it?
Yeah, we're going to have to see the mechanics on this... :-)
Mike
yep :)
I'm putting together the mechanics right now, so i should have something together later tonight.
On 9/28/2005 at 11:11pm, Tobaselly wrote:
RE: Re: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
Arturo wrote:
Hi there!
There is something here that worries me: Narrative and competitive.
I was planning to do something like that for the Ronnies but I saw some problems in that concept. If the narration is only adding color, there is not too much about competition between players. I think it is mainly only fortune, which is not nice in a competitive game. On the other hand, if narration implies credibility, and it can also affect mechanically, how to control a situation where two opposing players are competing? The one who narrates last has a big advantage, and in the way very nice ideas proposed by players will be systematically destroid by others. I can imagine it as frustrating.
Are you thinking in a system to control the credibility? Or whatever?
From my point of view Narrative and Competitive is a complicate combination.
Being completely unexpert in narrativist games I'm surely missing something.
Cheers,
Arturo
I'm thinking credibility is controlled by the system/underlying action of the player's story.
the basic mechanics that i'm thinking of are range of credibility (Influence), credibility (WILL), and the ability to alter another player's/your own credibility (Fate).
Players will be restricted in their story to having one overall action performed that links to increasing their Influence, Will or Fate OR Decreasing another player's Influence, Will or Fate. Any time your god is affected by another god's story you can do something known as a Willful Struggle, the winner of the willful struggle dictates whether or not the action was successful or not (the winner finishes up the story) Other players that are within influence of both participants can give either side Fate to increase their chances of success.
On 9/28/2005 at 11:36pm, Joshua BishopRoby wrote:
RE: Re: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
Arturo wrote: There is something here that worries me: Narrative and competitive.
I don't want to answer your question in one word, but, um: Capes.
Narration is an action; competition is a social milleu. Narration can be made to serve the purposes of competition as easily as any other action.
Tobaselly, as with any competitive game, you're going to have to pay close attention to your currency, since that is the medium of competition (in your case, it sounds like Will is your ersatz Hit Points). If you want narration to drive the competition, you'll need narration to affect your currency (narration increases or decreases Will/Influence).
Are Will and Influence the only things on the "character sheet"? I think you need some Color in the mechanics or else this becomes mere number-crunching...
On 9/29/2005 at 3:09am, Tobaselly wrote:
RE: Re: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
you can put god concept, name and fates on the sheet , plus anyone that would be considered an ally or an enemy. There isn't too much that is needed.
I tried to do a little test game with what mechanics i've written out so far. Will and Fate scores need to have a maximum (it'll probably be 3+number of players and 30+5*number of player) to keep the story moving and you need atleast 4 players so that the concepts of influence and allies work.
-Kevin
On 9/29/2005 at 3:22pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Re: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
Well, to be precise, narrative and narrativism are not the same thing. In fact, the term narrative in the post above is pretty much undefined. If what was meant is narrativism, then, yep, we have a problem Huston (Capes notwithstanding). But I'll wait for a clarification on the term.
Mike
On 9/29/2005 at 7:59pm, Tobaselly wrote:
RE: Re: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
Mike wrote:
Well, to be precise, narrative and narrativism are not the same thing. In fact, the term narrative in the post above is pretty much undefined. If what was meant is narrativism, then, yep, we have a problem Huston (Capes notwithstanding). But I'll wait for a clarification on the term.
Mike
My understanding of the differences between narrative and narrativism is a litte fuzzy. Here is an example of what a player's turn would be like in a direct action against another player.
Player A: The evil priests that serve me have devised a plague that is unleshed upon the followers of Troy ( Player B) The plague comes and slays all that live within her cities.
Player B: I'm going to cure my worshipers of your henious plague before it can slay them.
Player C: I'll aid Troy, i do not wish for the plague to infect my followers who live in peace with troy's worshippers.
*Each of the playes decide the amount of fate that they want to spend on this struggle.
Players A and B each roll their Will
Player A adds the fate spent to his Will, Player B and C add the fate spent to Player B's roll
Player B's roll wins*
Player A: With the aid of Athena, Troy was able to stop the plague before it decimated her city.
Player A: Athena you will pay for this tresspass against me!
On 9/29/2005 at 8:32pm, Joshua BishopRoby wrote:
RE: Re: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
I don't see any explicit determination and address of premise/theme; I wouldn't call it narrativist.
It will certainly create a narrative, however, and I encourage you to find ways to mechanically channel player effort into making that as interesting of a narrative as possible!
On 9/29/2005 at 8:34pm, Troy_Costisick wrote:
RE: Re: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
Heya Tobas,
I recently wrote a game where the player-characters compete against one another and try to dominate each other. If one is dominated, that's okay, he can still try to get out from under that domination and is still welcome to try to dominate other PC's. Here's the link: Cutthroat .
Granted, it's biker gang members not gods, but it accomplishes the very things you seem to want in your game- narration, player vs. player play, and domination mechanics. It's free to download, so if you get a chance, give it a peruse :) Be warned, however, that it is an Alpha game and not a finished product. There are holes in the design right now and they need to be fixed. However, it might point you in the right direction :)
Peace,
-Troy
On 9/29/2005 at 8:58pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Re: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
Quickly, for a definition of Narrativism, see the glossary in the articles page above, or, better, read the essay on that same page. Narrative has recently been used a lot to accidentally mean narrativism, but has a literary meaning all its own. That being the text or narration that enumerates the plot. All RPGs have this (hard to imagine one without events).
Mike
On 9/29/2005 at 11:33pm, Tobaselly wrote:
RE: Re: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
Mike wrote:
Quickly, for a definition of Narrativism, see the glossary in the articles page above, or, better, read the essay on that same page. Narrative has recently been used a lot to accidentally mean narrativism, but has a literary meaning all its own. That being the text or narration that enumerates the plot. All RPGs have this (hard to imagine one without events).
Mike
not to be a pain but the definition in the glossary is distinctly lacking any sort of substance on the the meaning of narrativism and the essay avoids giving it any direct defination. The definition in the glossary points towards "Story Now" which then states it's a commitment to addressing premise through play and that it's the defining feature of Narrativist play. :(
On 9/30/2005 at 3:25am, Tobaselly wrote:
RE: Re: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
If anyone is interested, here is the initial Rough Draft.
It's definitly lacking good description, purpose, a good steamline and all of that other fun stuff, but it does carry terminology, usage and has the beginnings of some layout concepts.
Give it a glance, it's free, small (5 pages with lots of white space), and i think i'm gona run some test games over the weekend to give it a try and see if there are any glaring issues that should be worked out.
On 9/30/2005 at 4:10pm, Mike Holmes wrote:
RE: Re: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
Tobaselly wrote:Well, I'd disagree, but if you need clarification, that's what the GNS forum is for.
not to be a pain but the definition in the glossary is distinctly lacking any sort of substance on the the meaning of narrativism and the essay avoids giving it any direct defination.
In any case, this leaves us no closer to understanding your goal statement about narration. Could you just give a plain english description of what you mean, yourself, by that?
Mike
On 9/30/2005 at 5:01pm, Tobaselly wrote:
RE: Re: [Fate Walkers] New Game Concept. Please abuse. :)
Sure, The players tell a story on their turn about their god, their religion, their followers, pretty much whatever that they want, with two contraints their story can only include the "things" of another god that they have influence with. The second constraint is their turn begins to ends when they describe an action (something that affects their sheet or another person's sheet) or conflict with another player's god. The players involved roll against each other to determine the outcome of the action and the winner of the roll describes how the actions turned out. It then moves to the next player's turn.
-Kevin