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Topic: [The World Class Rats Handbook] Ronnies feedback
Started by: Ron Edwards
Started on: 10/7/2005
Board: Indie Game Design


On 10/7/2005 at 3:51pm, Ron Edwards wrote:
[The World Class Rats Handbook] Ronnies feedback

THE WORLD CLASS RATS HANDBOOK, ERIC BAHR

Hello,

Eric Bahr's The World Class Rats Handbook is very, very ambitious - perhaps too big a chunk to start with.

One of the minor issues is that suppposedly hatred's in there as a feature of vendettas and conflicts of interest, but I'm really not seeing it. I also think "rat" is used too generally; as far as I can tell from the text, anyone who's famous is a rat: Carmen Sandiego, Julius Caesar, Marilyn Monroe, Jesus of Nazareth, etc. The solution is to focus on a specific rather than conceptual setting, so rattiness can be narrowed down a bit.

The system is clearly another example of resource-based drama, with suspiciously powerful GM-illusioning control over what's happening at all times. I guess I'm seeing your scars, Eric, which is perfectly understandable in your first game design. According to the rules, "We get to talk and say whatever we want, if we have the points, but someone still runs the show." The game shares all the standard risks and flaws of this design with Fink.

Let's see if I get it. Fool's Luck generates Bad Karma, and Good Karma results in being the GM's current favorite, getting freebies. The trouble is, the GM is already constructing every opportunity and riding herd over every outcome, so what's the point of being privileged? He's already privileging someone, every time, anyway. The whole thing is reminding me of The Window crossed with common interpretations of Amber.

Now, there is a solution! I strongly recommend checking out any Engle Matrix Games for this purpose. They are admirably suited to these desires for play, very interesting, well-written, and extremely well-honed through use. You'll also see that Chris is good at isolating and emphasizing features of a genre so that people can latch onto them quickly.

1. The Points vs. Normal narration section just isn't going to work. I suggest that Matrix Games do a better job by tossing a roll into the mix, when the GM says, "No, I know you usually can shoot guys easily, but this time, you gotta roll."

2. By the term "trade," do you mean "trait"?

Best,
Ron

Message 17149#181650

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On 10/12/2005 at 4:39am, Eric J. wrote:
Re: [The World Class Rats Handbook] Ronnies feedback

Sorry for responding so late to this but I've only had a chance to check the Forge about every week.

I agree with your comments, Ron pretty whole heartedly.  I'd like to clarify a couple of things though for the curious.

Hatred was always supposed to be part of it but it got sweeped away and I only added a teeny bit at the last minute.  It comes  down to this:  I was still in the middle of the summer and not used to doing things (5 month summer).  I got as far as I could go without everything I wrote turning into gibberish and so I took what I had, PDFed it and sent it.

Hatred was supposed to be "obvious" to me when I was designing it but the deadline hit and so had my energy level so it was just an add on.  I think that there's a large untapped market for superlight games for people who don't want to get into anything crunchy.  In fact, before I knew what roleplaying WAS, I and my friends had done what is basically 'freeform'.

I'm surprised that you hit upon my 'scars'.  It's something that this game design brought to my attention.  All of my games are either super-super-crunchy or super-super light.

My game suffers heavilly from the GM is God mentality but it was somewhat intentional.  The players run around trying some plot (or thwarting some plot) and the GM tries to stop them.  If the GM makes it really hard for them to do something because the GM believes that it's just too inplausible (or whatever) the player can use a point to accomplish it.

The whole thing was supposed to set up a simple one-shotish run-through adventure with the PCs using their witts (because they can't rely upon anything else) to accomplish a singular goal.  The GM should be dissarmed when the players use a point to do something outrageous and have to adapt.

I was going to provide more setting, better guidlines for the GM to use when creating a scenerio and rules for NPC rats and how they interact with players but I ran out of time.

BTW- It's also interesting that you mentioned Engle Matrix Games because it's one of the few games I'd read through recently before writing World Class Rats.

So in all it was a very unique experience and it really helped to show my strengths and flaws and got me to actually sortof finish something.  All I can say is thanks Ron.  It was a great opportunity that I hope to use again.

May the wind be always at your back,
-Eric J.

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