Hello all Forgers !

I've been toying with game designs for ages, and some of you may remember my most worked project, chaos & order (http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~jphannil/chaos_order.pdf). I've played mostly traditional Sim games, but after reading lots about narrativistic Forge-type games and finally actually playing short demos of them (thanks for making it happen in Jyväskylä go to Eero Tuovinen and Ben Lehman during their tour in Finland) was a real eye-opener for me.

Always tinker as I am, I soon came up with a new game design, it is called Axes (not those sharp thingies that cut wood though) and it deals with character conflicts with oneself and character transformation over time. It is a game of a narrativist-wannabe so I apologize for it being crude and such.

Axes emphasizes story-telling by triggers I call axes (axis), bipolar values that will describe character's condition and growth (or corruption, or whatever). Each character has unique set of them and they set the themes of play for that particular character. It may be violence <--> pacifism, outcast <-> member of community or whatever that sets the mood of interests and conflicts about that character.

You can see the first draft of the game for yourself at:

http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~jphannil/Axes.pdf

And then the questions:

1. Am I re-inventing the wheel? Who has done this, when and where ?
2. Is this text a waste of time? If so why?
3. I'm trying to get narrativist style of game to fit in quite generic mechanics, is there a problem with this?

Additionally, I would like to thanks Ben Lehman and Eero Tuovinen for organizing the events in Finland.

Best Regards
Petteri Hannila

Pettri,

I think your game has a lot of potential.  Your axis system could be a very powerful tool to simulate how a character grows and changes throughout the story.  I like how some axis shift back and forth, while others only go one way.

As you said, this is a rough draft and, like all rough drafts, it has things you need to change and areas you need to flesh out.

First, I think you need some rule as to how high an axis can start.  Perhaps flexible axis start between 0 and 2, while the one way axis start at 5.  Right now there is no reason for a player to take a decrementing axis.  (It simply reduces player control.)  There is also no reason for a player not to take a starting axis that is not 5, because the higher the axis, the more powerful the player.

I would recommend giving the GM control over axis change.  Right now there is no reason for a player not to increase all axis to 5 and leave them there.  Even if it would make sense for an axis to drop, as the rules are written currently, the player would not have to decrease it.

Instead of allowing players to choose the means by which their characters can die, I would recommend making this decision a group decision that effects all players.  Also, I would recommend adjusting this rule so character death never becomes an impossibility.  (Requiring a decrementing start to be at least 4 means a character is immortal once said stat drops to 3.)

It would be very interesting if axis could conflict with each other in certain situations.  At this point the only interaction they have is positive.  Could a characters alcoholism get in the way of his ability to fight?  Just an idea to consider.

Finally, and most importantly, what are characters supposed to do in this game?  What type of conflicts will be had?  What will motivate the characters?  What will the games themselves entail?  Include in your rules the things that motivate player characters to action and make their stories unfold.  Explain the types of stories your game will provide and some ways in which they may unfold.

You have a very solid first draft, and I look forward to reading the final product.

Best,
        Bill

Thanks for the quick reply Bill.

Some answers to your questions:

Did you notice the fact that it is not only player who chooses how the axes will change, but it is the loser of the conflict, be it player or GM. The winner of the conflict will narrate what happens, and loser will fit the changes of axes to the narration. This way, the value of the axes can drop from 5, even if player himself doesn't want it to happen. The other drawback of having all axes at 5 is the possibility of character "death". See the examples for axis change (the first conflict example GM will dictate how Cedric's axes will change, and the Cedric's player for the next example).

Axes can certainly conflict with each other. See the second example of conflicts, there you see Cedric's Heroic -axis to be used against his Violence.

And about your last question, this is a tough cookie. Since Axes was built on the idea of "character oriented issues", it is hard to come up with ways to narrow them down in any way. Maybe it could do good for the game, but at the moment I don't know how to do it.

Best regards

Pettri,

Having the looser of the conflict decide how the axis change is an interesting way to do it, basically giving the majority of the statistical power (everything besides character death) to the looser.  Thus, winners get weaker while losers get stronger.  Interesting.

I would recommend only allowing the looser to change axis that were used in the conflict.  That way you can’t have a player initiate and loose conflicts of one axis (say, duty) in order to change another which had nothing to do with the conflict (like violence).

I would like you to write more about how Axis can conflict with each other.  Can any player initiate an internal conflict inside any other character?  Can PCs do it to NPCs?  Is only the GM allowed to?  This type of internal conflict can lead to some very interesting game play and deserves more explanation.

I am not asking you to narrow down the possible issues your game covers.  I am asking you to give us tools to convert the stats you have given us into these Character Based Issues.  Where should the story begin?  Do the major conflicts exist before the game begins, or do they appear as it progresses?  What can we expect resolution to look like?  You have written out a fine set of statistics, now give us the tools to convert your statistics into a story.

Best,
        Bill

Thanks for the reply !

Loser decides how the axes will change, but he must ground it somehow to the narration of the winner (the winner narrates the result of the conflict), so at least when asked, the loser must be able to explain why an axis would change, if it is not apparent.

As from the internal conflicts, the answer is yes. There are basically three situations that lead to conflict:

1. Character meets a situation in his life, which can dramatically change him
2. Any two (or more) players disagree with something happening in the game
3. Situation seems tense and dramatic, and is fun to handle with game mechanics

The examples you gave would fall under 2, since different players disagree on what happens (these can be two players, not necessarily GM). And yes, the conflict can be invoked in major NPC:s as well (those who have stats like characters).

But you are true, these things should be written down in the rules, lots of examples of actual play (which hasn't occurred yet by the way) would nail things down better.

There might be issues on the conflict things the way they are now. Players could become a nuisance and invoke conflict after conflict after conflict without any serious dramatic implementations. However I don't know is it worth thinking about abusive player behavior in this early phase of designing.

Bill,

Just wanted to tell you that I upgraded the text a bit (it is in the same address). Now the conflict examples clearly state the fact that two players (not just GM) can start a conflict.

I also added stuff about creating new axes and removing old ones from the characters. With little effort, this can also be done.

Best regards