I was discussing with some of my friends the other day about the game. They have been giving aid in areas relating to proof-reading and ideas as I go along. They are the "anal retentives" who make sure everything makes sense and whatnot.

They mentioned that I should post an opinion poll sort of post, detailing the character types and discerning what people would most enjoy playing as. So, I will give a brief writeup of each character type to get an opinion here and perhaps some feedback on what they feel would improve the game for that particular character type.

Type 1: Dreamer
    These are the "core" of the game, if you will. I imagine most players will want to take the role of these uber-cool folks. Dreamers are attuned to an ancient entity which is within all aspects of reality now, having fed off the dreams of the mortal world for thousands upon thousands of years. They are able to pull power from one of 12 "Strata" (think of them as Spheres, if you want a magick perspective on it) and manifest their needs and desires into reality by using energy from the Fabric (the Dream reality).
    They can combine Strata for numerous powerful effects...literally anything the mind can think up, especialyl at high levels. However, to balance their immense power, they must constantly balance themselves on a sort of sliding scale, called Sway. This essentially acts as a moral compass. Every use of their power can shift the position they stand at on this Sway scale. Too far to the negative and they run the risk of becoming or calling forth a powerful evil entity called a Nightmare. Too far to the positive and they are elevated to paragons of virtue, good dreams brought to life, called Incarna. Thus, they must try to keep themselves balanced as much as possible in order to remain themselves.

Type 2: Spark
    The Sparks are this worlds mages. Long ago, people could call magick by will alone. However, when the entity known as Void came to the world and started feeding off of it and the dreams of mortals, magick was forever changed. In order to use magick now, those born with the gift of magick (the Spark) must find creatures known as Symbiotes. They must bond with these creatures to perform magick. Each symbiote contains within it a certain aspect of magic, that the Spark can "tap". So, for instance, a symbiote might contain all of the Fire Magick.
    These symbiotes can increase in power as they host and itself bond more and more over time. They are not sentient creatures, but the host and creature can communicate via a sort of empathy. The host gains the benefits of the symbiotes natural powers, as well as its magick focus. However, in order to sustain itself the symbiote draws some of the hosts strengths into itself. Sparks can have multiple symbiotes, combining their powers to create different magickal effects. However, they are limited in how many such beings they can attach to their bodies (since each will siphon things like HP, Strength etc from the host in order to exist on him)
    So, its a win-win and win-lose relationship. The host feeds the symbiote, and the creature gives the host the ability to channel his natural magick ability. The host and creature are linked however, and harm done to one will harm the other. Thus, protecting the creature is also very necessary.
    (Some symbiotes are very visible when they are attached to the host. Others are not. Several breeds exist, some more rare than others)
    Magick itself is raised in three areas. Projection, Infusion and Changing. Projection is magic directed at a target, with no intent to alter the natural state of said target (ie: Fireball, exists only to damage. The rest is merely a side effect of the flame itself). Infusion changes a target (ie: healing, increasing strength, cursing), and Changing alters the state of the natural world, without a true target (ie: making a bush move and block a passage, shaping a rock into a new form, etc)

Type 3: Heroic Mortal
    Here we have the Joe Not-So-Ordinaries. They are the common people who rise above their kin as heroes. They spend their days adventuring or performing duties few others would ever consider. Their strengths are of course far less potent than the above character types. However, they are able to perform astounding feats just the same.
    To give them somewhat of a boost over the other two sorts of characters, the Heroic Mortals have a little more luck on their side. Fate points can be used by all character types to alter the outcome of rolls. Heroic Mortals get more of these Fate points to use. Additionally, they do not have to spend a lot of Skillpoints(experience) on magickal abilities and thus they tend to advance faster in skills and other abilities.

-end character descriptions-

There are no classes in the game. Players decide what skills and abilities they possess, and thus craft the character they want. No level restrictions, or other silly D&Disms.

Input is greatly appreciated. I'd like to hear the responses, as it will help me guage why a certain class of character might be undesirable or where they can be improved.

Hi!
  Well, I like the Spark most of all, but it seems like there is a huge barrier to entry. You have to be born with a gift, then find a symbioute. But it still seems cool.
  I noticed that there is no character type that feeds off of the power of the Void. They don't even have to be evil or corrupted, that could be good and using the power of the void against itself...

ah , yes, I failed to mention that. The dreamers themselves are Void embodied. Theres a long backstory. In short, Void ate dreams while the races slept in a coma-like slumber for thousands of years. Eventually, the terrible dreams they had (Void came in a time of terrible strife) had caused Void to manifest Nightmares into reality. They staged a sort of uprising, sapping Voids power. To counter them, Void birthed the dreamers.

They do not know how they were made (no one but the Nightmares knows of Void, as it is simply in everything and cannot be glimpsed by mortal or immortal), only that they have these powers. They can sense others of their kind (a la highlander), but only those who are sensitive to the same Strata. They have formed "cults" of dreamers dedicated to specific philosophies. All try to keep their existence secret, for the Nightmares are their mortal enemy...and they are powerful beyond measure. The dreamers thus must always be vigilant, combatting the Nightmares, their natural enemy...all the while balancing themselves against the dangers of Sway, what they refer to as The Stain.

Hi!
  Well, then I guess you need a Nightmare imbued character?

re-read the description about Dreamers. No such character is required. The Dreamers are Void, but also mortal as they were before being given their power. They cosntantly struggle against themselves, the Stain...Nightmare on one end of the scale, and for lack of a better word, Angel on the other.

There are characters, intended as villains ONLY, called the Corrupt. They are dreamers who failed their "awakening" (when they mysteriously attain their power) and were swallowed whole by the will of the nightmares. They are utterly insane, sociopathic beasts of people who rule through fear and slaugther in the dark places of the world. They make plots, or rather they THINK they make plots...but always behind them is the power of a Nightmare.

anyone else?

Dreamer all the way  ;-) 

With a tail... and ears.... cat ears.... yeah baby!

-The Anal Retentives

Do you plan to mix the types in a single campaign?  Dreamers have this moral compass thing which is absent in the other types. If you mix the types either the moral rules would give the Dreamers a theme the others are missing or they would seem as an odd addition, that doesn't really fit.

Have you ever tried a WoD X-Over game? The same problems will occur.

I'd  use the same moral scale for all types with some general effects (maybe something related to the Fate points) and some special effects for Dreamers and Sparks.

Yes, mixed campaigns are more than possible, and quite likely.

While the Dreamers have the Stain/Sway to worry about in all actions, that is something unique to them. Their very existence is a challenge which no others need face.

The Sparks, on the other hand, must contend with forever being bound to ugly and bizarre creatures in order to use their power. While many revere them for their knowledge and abilities they are also feared by a great many, as well. Not every symbiote is able to go unnoticed. Most are quite obvious. A Spark has many enemies in the world, chiefly among a secret sect known as the Eyes of the World. They seek to restore magick to its' former power (which is impossible, but they don't know that) through the capture and perversion of every person capable of workign magick.
    While they lurk from the shadows in hunting these Sparks, they are not without power. Members of their number have infiltrated key government roles, in order to better keep an eye on their terrible purpose.

Heroic Mortals have a struggle which is different from both of the above, as well. Theirs is more primal, more basic, but absolutely of no less importance. Survival, and making the world a safer place for everyone. They are the larger than life heroes from common birth, those who fill the role of protectors and are dedicated to valiant duty. But at every turn, they see the darkness in the world around them. It is a terrible place outside of the civilized reaches. They must face this horror at a far more basic and dangerous level that a Spark or a Dreamer ever could. Without the magick or powers of their counterparts, the only thing they have to depend on in time of crisis is themselves and their companions.
    And to top it all off, they must deal with the politics and issues which plague society at every turn. Eyes and ears turn toward them when they walk past, and their decisions carry great weight. They are the leaders of men, even if they dont want to be.

I don't deny that all types may be interesting. (OK. There are quite a few games about heroes, so that might not be as interesting as the other guys.) The problem I see is, that the issue of the Dreamers is part of the mechanics and the issue of Heroes is not.

Right, to that degree I do agree with you. However, the game is about the Dreamers primarily and their struggle to set reality back to what it should be. Sparks are a part of the world because they are a part of the mythos and the background. Heroic Mortals exist because they would exist in this world. Each is compelling in their own right, and each with their own specific advantages and disadvantages.

If you have suggestions on how a Heroic Mortal might be beefed up, I would love to hear it, but the Sway mechanic is meant chiefly for Dreamers and not the other player types. I cant even fathom how it would apply to them, as they are not linked to Void in the same manner. Void merely is a part of them. The Dreamers ARE Void, or at least are a fragment of its infinite energy.

I envisioned having Heroic Mortals as something that could be used by a player should they choose, knowing that the rewards of superior power were not necessarily a part of them. Yet they are compelling in their own right, with rich background and the like.

I want to avoid "classes" and all the traditional trappings as much as possible, so as to develop a rich and truly original setting in which to play.

These are the "core" of the game, if you will. I imagine most players will want to take the role of these uber-cool folks.

To the poster (forget who it was) that suggested using Sway as a central mechanic...

After giving it some though, I think you may just be right. It doesnt have to eb the SAME mechanic for each character type, But using it would still be interesting.

For Heroic Mortals I can see sway working little more than as a "alignment" gauge. Positive is good, negative is evil. The center is neutral. Perhaps the way others see and communicate with them will change based on this scale?

However, I am having a hell of a time deciding how it would even remotely apply for Sparks.

" dislike the idea that one of three classes is designed to be the most prominant, most used, and... the core.``  -joepub

    It worked in many other titles, the least of which is certainly not Exalted. The Exalted are the main choice in the game, period. Then you have youir god-blooded, demon-blooded, dragon-blooded , heroic mortals , etc. All possibly powerful being....but none that compare on the same level to an Exalted. They exist to make the world interesting and to allow a wide array of choice for both campaigns and players.

What is it about the idea that you dislike? Why does this impact the setting in any form?

One problem I see with Sway is that it can create rather silly characters.

Dreamers are forced, effectively, to play by the old AD&D standard of "True Neutral," even while being heroes who fight against the Dark. They are required to do as much evil as good, and each time they stop a Nightmare, they have to kill a random innocent puppy just to keep themselves human.

Meanwhile, True Neutral is a caricature to begin with. People who do a lot of minor good and evil but no large defining things are fine, but rarely prove to be worthy heroes. People like Grayhawk's Mordenkainen, who do lots of big evil things and lots of big good things to maintain some freaky Cosmic Balance, are twisted, insane, and in the end evil monsters. Heroes can have minor flaws, true, but overall a heroic type will usually end up clearly on the side of light, which you seem to be fighting with a very heavy-handed rules stick in favor of creating either, A, Dreamers who are constantly killing poor lost little puppies to balance the scales, or B, Dreamers who are almost amoral and constantly looking out for their own self-interests.

The former is basically tasteless comedy (kill puppies for satan, anyone?), which I don't think was the point of your RPG. The second may be a valid choice but it does heavily railroad the sort of people who can be dreamers, forcing them into being anti-heroes at best, which seems to clash with the concept of them being Dreamers...at risk of sounding silly, the name "Dreamer" conjures to mind images of schoolgirls in sailor fuku trying to balance schoolwork, chasing boys and saving the world, all while avoiding getting their tails slammed in the door. Hardly the stuff dark anti-heroes are made of:)

Sayter,

Are you familiar with Ars Magica? That game's distinction between Magi, Companions, and Grogs, which gives each an assigned role in the covenant and a different status in play, might be helpful to you if you're really wanting to include all these character types in the same game. You might also find some of Ron Edwards' ideas in Sorcerer & Sword and Sorcerer about running games with parallel narratives, and some of his actual play reports on that game and others, useful in how to run a game with people in different roles.

Sayter,

I like your three character types.  I would be interested in more information on the kinds of resources and conflicts the characters face.  Do Mortal Heroes start with a kingdom under their control?  A body of followers?  What do they have that makes them worthy of playing the great game with god-like dreamers?  What conflicts await the dreamers that they can not simply unmake?  Will the Mortal Heroes and Sparks have an advantage in these areas?

I think that your Spark conflict needs work.  Evil secret societies with their fingers in everything are over done.  While it might add an interesting bit of flavor, I would centralise the conflict on hunting/sustaining their symbiots.  If I were you I would make the symbiots sentient with their own needs and desires.  Check out Ron Edwards "Sorceror" for an excelant example of how to do this.

I would like to see Sway worked into all three archetypes with important statistical consequences for each.  You already have Dreamers changing based on their sway and struggling to stay human.  Perhaps it acts as a reputation for Mortals Heroes, defining the number and kinds of followers they draw up.  Acts which no one knows of do not effect their sway.  For Sparks it could represent their relationship with their symbiots.  The better they treat their symbiots, the more positive their sway.  The worse they treat them, the more negative.  (This would require that you make symbiots sentient.)

You have some cool ideas.  I'd like to see the game when its ready.

Best,
        Bill

no, I think I may have missed a bit in teh translation from brain to paper, as it were, on dreamers.

Sway does NOT indicate either Good or Evil in terms of the dreamer. Rather, positive and negative.

You can very much still play the defender of all things good, and be as honorable as you can and save puppies from drowning and all that. You can just the same go on murderous rampages and use kittens as ammunition for your potato cannon. the Stain, or Sway, doesn't care about what the end result is. It cares only what was the first intention of the power, as it were. If the power were siphoned to cause damage and remove things from reality through its use it would be considered negative. If it created something or restored something lost then it would be considered a positive use of power.

I can just as much create an object for evil as I can for good. The idea is that I am adding to reality. That constitutes a positive shift in Sway. A friend could require me to remove an arrow from a wound...but its a broad tip and to tear it out would kill him. So I instead make the arrow into nothingness. I have used negative power.

The idea , in the end, is to force players to think. Sure, my intentions are good. But if I am TOO good and ONLY create then I run the risk of going overboard....and if I only consume I likewise am doomed. Instead, they must act with common sense and awareness of their choices.

hmmm this has inspired a bunch new ideas, describing it as such :)

Bill: Gladly fill in what details here that I can

Initially I had only thought of mortal heroes as those who are reknowned figures making a difference...I had not even considered the concept of followers being a core mechanic. I had my mind more in the "martial arts movie" headspace...the lone badass destroying hordes of foes even with purely mortal capabilities. Just someone whos skill was beyond that of normal men. My thoughts there were to start the character with more skill points than a dreamer or spark could, as they are basically the child prodigy types...just amazing good at what they do.

The way you set the idea for a sway mechanic actually sounds quite comfortable and easy to work in. I had my eye on a couple ideas, and my own was close to yours (although it was akin towards an alignment moreso than anything else initially) but with a few tweaks I think the concept woudl work out quite fairly and would make complete sense. As to how to work followers, I willl need to give that some thought. Maybe heroes can use their natural talents to their advantage in some way, but arent ever feeling OBLIGATED to take followers since that may not be their concept...unless of course the character is a Richard Rahl type in which case ...tough luck. Accept the responsibility.

Your remarks regarding Sparks: Agreed totally. The Sway mechani there just isnt working for me .

See, the problem lies in this: I want players to have a sentient bound to them, with intelligence. The problem is, I want them to be able to use many of them. And if they have these things for a long while, they are going to be haing a lot of conversations with these things. And that, my dear friends, is a pain in the ass to roleplay and can KILL a character of anyone less then an amaaaazing RPer. Which in turn drags down a game. I have always hated INsanity type effects, and moreso randomly rolled ones. Expecting characters to automatically respond in charactr is quite obviously a bad assumption.
      So instead I thought to make them of animal intelligence, but still empathically bonded to the host. This way they could wear lots and have many with a little magic in a bunch of areas....or stick with one and power it up over time leading to veyr powwerful magick in one or two areas. The plug-n-play nature of the symbiotes, so to speak, was aimed at being atttractive and fresh and gives a player a ton of options from the get go. This concept is far from ironed out and I woudl very much like a way to make them able to have a few symbiotes and still have them be almost like a familiar...but I also want limited flexibility on any given symbiote.

As for your Dreamers question, about what challenges do they face that they couldnt unmake:

Dreamers do not get much power to begin with. right now its set at 3 total points to distribute among the 12 Strata. They must consider what sort of effects they woudl like to create...and also that they cannot start with any Strata above 2. Now, to further complicate things, they cannot take any strata that are "opposites". In pairs of opposites then, they are:

Light/Shadow
Life/Death
Form/Decay
Force/Spirit
Body/Mind
Temporal/Spatial

So right from the get go they are immediately cutting off power potential. Furthermore, each level of power in a Strata obviously means the good ol "weak to strong" curve. Raising strata up levels will cost a fair amount of XP ( i use SP for Skill Points), and they are also very dependant on their mana (Ki). With all these initial limitations, you then add in Sway which makes them need to use care with their powers.

Teh casting mechanic isnt fully fleshed out yet, but thats a whole different matter entirely.

As for the conflicts themselves: Dreamers can sense one another, as well as Chimera. The individual "cults" of Dreamers (Periapts) would likely have some rivalries between their differring philosophies. The Chimera themselves are the largest threat, for they have a hate on for Dreamers too. They represent the gravest danger to their dark needs and vile desires. But a single dreamer is rarely a match for a Nightmare...and absolutely no match for a Terror, the gretest form for a Chimera. These evil monstrosities are able to turn entire legions into blubbering madmen and turn the most brave man in existence into a fit of unctonrollable fear. They are VERY BAD creatures. Thankfully, only a few Terrors exist. But there are numerous Nightmares and each has their own unique agenda and claim on the world. And then there are the lesser Chimera...Fears.

Fears are kinda like a possession. They can get inside of people and make them go bad. Feed on their misery, pain and doubt and fuel it with even more despair. Turn them into puppets and alter the world slowly...eventually they gain power and turn into Nightmares...and then have a physical presence in reality. Additionally, the world at large is filled with dangers spawned through the thousands of years when the mortal population was stuck in a bizarre slumber.

did i miss anything, Bill?

And once I have a good chunk of it done, I will be more than happy to send it to you :)

Sayter,

That summery did indeed clear a few things up.

For Mortal Heroes:
What if all mortal heroes have followers.  Followers are people who they have inspired by their actions and will follow their example.  They will be willing to walk at the sides of the hero, but will not follow if he does not want them to.  However, they will always follow the ideals and values that the Hero has portrayed through his or her actions.

However, this bond goes two ways.  When a Mortal Hero stands up against a Chimera or Terror, he is fortified by the legions of people he has inspired.  Their loyalty to him and the power of his ideals make him vastly defeat through the power of magic and dreams.  To subvert him in this way would be just as difficult as defeating all his followers.

For Sparks:
I think this will solve your problem.  Symbiots are fully sentient beings.  However, they can not talk.  They have needs and desires that the Spark will KNOW when he wears it, though it will not tell him so in words.  Perhaps he feels the need himself.  Perhaps the knowledge simply plumps itself down in his brain.  Or delusions.  Or some combination of the above.  Maybe it varies for each symbiot.  The more symbiots the more that they demand and require.  If their needs are not met then they will begin to rebel.  Perhaps to many will begin to drive the Spark a bit insane.  Maybe he will seek more Symbiots to gain the power necessary to sustain his current ones.  I can see a lot of intresting conflicts resulting from this without the GM needing to play 30 NPCs or the Symbiots taking over the narration.

For Dreamers:
Cool.  I like it.  God like beings of not-totally-evil against more god like beings of total-evil.  I like how they morph and change based on the kinds of powers they use.  Since these are the most powerful beings, their conflict against the Chimeras is probably going to be the focus of game play, so I would like to know how the other archetypes help them in this conflict.  What elements do you see Mortal Heroes and Sparks bringing that the godlike Dreamers can not provide themselves?  I think the answer to this question will really define the other two archetypes.

Best,
        Bill

Bill:

You can call me Chris if you like :)

I really like that Heroic Mortal idea a lot. It gives a lot of interestign flexibility, and also promotes a player using such a character to uphold strong ideals and to carry them out. I had seen characters such as Richard Rahl and Luke Skywalker as being examples in terms of morality and how people see them. They are leaders of men, but each is a very different person when you stip away their powers. Richard Rahl has countless people who would gladly die for him, for he would do the same and would never give up. Luke, while not having legions of followers or being a king, commands the respect of all he meets and it is their belief in him and his moral fibre that ultimately wins out, despite the turmoil in his own head.

Using this followers idea as a template actually does have a very solid foundation in the nature of this game world. In fact, it would add a TON of intruige to almost any campaign. Jealousy and rivalry is VERY common among mortals...especially among the nobles and higher class people. A hero , like it or not, is elevated to this status in some degree. I will definitely give this some thought.

As for Sparks: I had thought of somethign along those lines, although your route is a lot more simple. Simple is better in most cases. So lets say it works like this , then....each Symbiote is intelligent and cannot talk. They communicate with the host body only after they are bound to him. Once they are connected, the host feels all that the symbiote requries to survive and does his best to provide this. In exchange they get the magick. Fair, I would say.
    If each symbiote had different needs that could certain give them a personality , too. Maybe one demands steak on a daily basis, its favorite food. Perhaps another requires some of your natural endurance. Another may demand you to have as much sex as possible for it, sot aht it can feed off the pheromones released during the act. A definitely interesting concept. The rebel idea....interesting. And it does make sense to a point. Symbiotic means BOTH benefit from the union, and if that ceases to be the case the creatuer has no reason to stick around.
    I'd also toyed with the idea of a different breed of symbiote , Parasties, if you will. They grant power, but they take more than they give...eventually totally controlling the host body.

as for Dreamers:

The question ask...how to provide things a mortal or a spark can provide that a dreamer cant....thats a REALLY tough question. Considering a powerful dreamer could create new life, that really does make it complicated. The way I see it, is that Dreamers are the legendary beings people only speculate about. They operate in realative secrecy to avoid the problems of Stain/Sway and protect the minds of their people from the influence of the Chimera. They arent really supposed to HAVE an equal (at least not at higher levels) other than another Dreamer or a Chimera or other powerful creature created from manifesting.

However, the other two types of characters have very different aspects. Dreamers are involved in a sheerly astronomical game of good and evil, where they are each a soldier for both sides of the coin. Mortal Heroes are the purely "human" element. They do not know about the grand games being played by creatures above their plane (unless of course they travel with Dreamers or meet other such things in a story). They struggle to survive, and the story from their perspective is much grittier and darker. Evil is at every corner and they rarely know it is there until it already has its' talons out.
   

Sparks are a bridge between the two. They live to please their symbiotes, as well as themselves and their people. They know of cosmic powers and mystical forces, but the ancient texts are not so relevant anymore. The only teachers of magick they get are creatures that become a part of their body. They are looked up to in some places, but also hated in others and branded as servants of demons. While a mortal hero might experience racist issues they will never have to contend with matters of magick, nor do they have to walk around with a worm affixed to their neck or a crab-like beast permanently fused to their shoulder....etc.

Chris,

It seems like the only reason Mortal Heroes would not be able to aid in the great conflicts between dreamer would be a lack of raw power.  Motivation they have.  The Chimera are embodiments of darkness and evil.  They threaten the Mortal Heroe's people and his/her ideals.  Chimeras get in the way of what is (or what the Mortal Hero perceive to be) right.  Is it not the Mortal Heroes job to fight the impossible fight?

While the raw power of a lone mortal is nothing to a Chimera, and even a thousand minds divided without use, this does not mean the Mortal Hero is helpless against them.  If the Mortal Hero's will and resolve is that of his followers, he might have the metaphysical might to do battle with these cosmic baddies.  When he strikes the Chimera, it is not the pitiful piece of metal that hurts the mighty beast, but the combined trust, devotion and love of the Mortal Hero's followers that wounds these embodiments of evil.  When the claw that shatters cities glances off the Mortal Hero's hide, it is not the strength of his skin but the devotion of his followers that keeps him safe.

Not that these things will keep him safe from other mortals.  All the love in the world will not keep him safe from an assassins blade.  Unlike the Dreamer, other mortals pose a threat to Mortal Hero's.  They can kill them.  They can enslave the Mortal Hero's followers and break their will.

The Sparks I see having no problem with power when it comes to fighting Chimera.  They lack the breadth of powers that Dreamers enjoy, but unlike dreamers, they can use them as they choose.  I see no reason for you to make the effectiveness of the Sparks powers less.

What the Sparks lack in the battle against Chimera is motivation.  Sparks are greedy.  They only care (or at least only benefit) from acquiring more Symbiots and keeping them happy.  Perhaps the very existence of the Chimera weaken or damage their Symbiots.  Perhaps the Chimera consume Symbiots to enhance their own energies.

Then we have Dreamers.  The Uberfolk.  The beings who were crafted by the void to make war on evil.  With their level of power and its internal nature, they would have little need to venture outside their safe havens save to do battle.  It seems to me that they would be much more interesting if they fought along side Mortal Heroes and Sparks.  In exchange for helping these people attain their more basic goals, they aid the Dreamer in his or her grand struggle.

This kind of relationship can help in your scale of play.  The campaign could start focused on fairly basic mortal struggles.  Mortal Heroes do whats right on an interpersonal level, Sparks struggle to find Symbiots.  As play progresses the stakes of Mortal Heroes conflicts raise to national levels, Sparks are more worried about feeding their symbiots then finding more and the Dreamers start to sense the taint of the Chimera.  By end game the Chimeras dark influence has spread across the land, the Mortal Heroes must fight them to free their people, the Sparks to save their symbiots, and the Dreamers, well, its what they exist to do.

Personally, I think that this would be much more interesting then having 3 separate, unlinking storylines.  And lets be honest, at the end of the campaign, everyone wants to help take down the big baddie.  At least in my experience.

Best,
      Bill

Bill,

I think I am in absolute total agreement with this concept. Except where the Sparks are concerned. True, they seek the symbiotes in order to use the powers they were born to tap. However, they are capable of doing great things to aid their fellows. They would take the positions of advisors and confidantes, using their gift to do whatever they needed to. They could, obviosuly, serve evil as well.

Which brings an interesting point up...symbiotes are a creation of Void, altough not at all intentional. Magick merely works in a different way than it used to.If individual symbiotes are intelligent, then they too have their own goals and motivations. I doubt they would have any inclination on what such goals would BE until they were bonded to a mortal Spark. Suddenly they have access to his mind and his knowledge...the workings of the world are at least to some degree revealed to them. What would this do to it? Furhtermore, it would know the hosts thoughts and desires. In effect, they would be one mind with two bodies and two separate views.

Its difficult to decide exactly where to put them in terms of the setting.

I am loving the mortal hero idea you spouted though. It suits the setting, and makes absolute sense. I very much like the idea. Seeing as the Chimera feed off of doubts and fears and hate and whatnot, and can exist only by spreading more of it...a mortal hero inspiring thousands, or more, to his righteous cause would draw away a lot of this dark energy. Thus, the mortal hero could gain the ability one might consider Holy. They can harm the demons, and withstand the terrible energy which is manifested in the Chimera.

This is definitely going places.

I just wish I could get this intro written to my liking...I am having a helluva time writing the intro to Void and how it came to the world. I cannot decide exactly how it ended up in hibernation, why/how the Chimera came to be, etc. Perhaps this is a topic for another post, however.

Idea:

What if Sparks worked differently? The concept of them is cool, but something was off....I had this idea, talking with a comrade the other day.

Basically his stance was that Sparks seemed kinda pointless. It was a long discussion, but we had the idea that perhaps:

-Symbiotes are rarely "good guys". They are selfish creatures who basically just want an animate "ride" to get them around...and to eventualyl control.
-Whenever a mage uses a spell, we reference Sway. If he fails, he drops in sway. If he succeeds, he rises.
-The more "positive" the sway, the more control the caster has over the symbiote. The opposite applies in the negative.
-Fully postive means complete control of the symbiote. Completely negative means it controls you, totally and utterly.

This gives reason for a Sway mechanic for the Spark. It also makes a very, very interesting personal struggle. They are at odds with the very thing they absolutely NEED in order to cast spells. Yet that very creature coudl subjugate them and ultimately be little more than a Puppet Master. Skilled mages wont have an issue, but the poor ones will.

Think of it this way...if a mage plays correctly they only use magic when it is required...not to show off. Look at gandalf, for instance. He rarely acutally cast spells unless the situation called for it. Same goes for a lot of other stories as well. In Realm, if using this idea, those who cast spells non-stop would have the highest risk of losing themselves to their Symbiote. Those who were wise would not have this issue, as they would fail that much less.

Thoughts?

forgot to mention on the last post:

Additionally, the symbiote can cause mutations and other changes to the hosts body. This is based on their magick use. Failure increases sway towards Negative. Success increases towards Positive.

Basically, a symbiote "infection" only matures through using the magick it channels. Use more Fire magic, should be easier, because the bugger wont fight back so hard... try a healing spell You've never before tried and then poof...possible mutation. Enjoy your second pinkie toe on your right foot. This also has an interesting effect...in order to cast ANY spells, the Spark has to take somewhat of a licking because they have never cast any spells before. The symbiote doesnt mcuh care for the host, but the host needs it.

perhaps the mutations are a far better twist than allowing it to control the player. Mutation is, in its own right, pretty damn serious.

The real question is: does mutation suit the "class" , or would the mental aspect be more interesting? OR would it be better to try an entirely different approach. The original wasnt working, this seems a lot more awesome.

So...for a Spark, one has to use the power to sway to positive? That doesn't encourage "use less magic," what it seems to encourage is "cast a lot of mastered spells for no other reason than to tell your symbiots that you are the boss." Granted, this is thinking in maximize-power terms, but a smart Spark under these rules -would- smack his Symbiots around a bit just to make sure they don't get to thinking they can control or mutate him. Am I seeing "My Life With Master" played out between a Spark and his Symbiots?

Meanwhile, I see the Dreamers' Sway conflict as working pretty similarly. "Oh, I've been disintegrating a lot of reality lately, let me make a lot of pointless easy-to-create matter. There, better. Oh, have I healed too many wounds and do I feel the danger of becoming an Incarna? Let me disintegrate that boulder over there. Ah, I'm feeling more grounded in reality already." So there's again less "keep PCs from running amok with the power" incentive, and just a "balance the scales as easily as you can" incentive in the power. Is this intentional?

Also, while we're on the subject of Incarna...what are they, and what is their role in the world and the struggle against the Chimera.

Hi!
  I like the mental mechanic better than the mutation mechanic better. The trick of it is that you need to come up with a motivation system for the symbiots, so that sway matters and that the player and GM knows where the negative sway is taking the character. Can Sparks do some research and find a compatible symbiot before using/merging with them?
  Originally, you had stated that the Sparks collect symbiots to gain new powers? How will Sparks get new powers with this new system, or will there be some multimensional sway bars with a direction for each symbiot?

Ramidel: Interesting points, and ones I don't ahve an easy answer to. This is preceisly why I love this forum, for the folks here point out info you can easily overlook on your own.

The way you put it seems a very feasible reality during play. I will have to think of a way to discourage "the easy way out" of Sway.

As for Incarna...I initially had thought of them as the polar opposite to the Chimera. However, I am toying with the idea, instead, of having severe positive Sway result in the Dreamer being absorbed into the Fabric, their energy becoming part of the infinite realm of their source of power.

dindenver:
    I am thinking that invidivual symbiotes will be more compatible for certain Sparks, yes. For the actual powers granted by a symbiote, I am leaning sorta in this direction now:

Spark without symbiote: capable of very miniscule magickal effects. A symbiote acts as a magnifier, allowing them to use their power to the fullest potential. In this way, a Spark could be a normal person able to perform some nifty tricks...but with a symbiote they become a lethal instrument. With that comes the danger of using just such a creature.
    Each symbiote would take a certain quality away from the Spark, or add a negative character trait (due to its effect on the wielder). More symbitoes would allow them to focus more aspects of their gift, but would add more issues at the same time (thus making multiple symbiotes a very risky, but reward laden endeavor).
    I am playing with different "types" of Sparks. Each would have a specific magickal set of abilities which could be levelled up over time. So for instance, you might have a Flame Spark:

Flame Spark:
Fire Aspect-The Spark takes on certain qualities of fire on his body. Whenever he activates this magick, this becomes evident to all 
                  that can see him. (Think "human torch")
Fire Control - The spark controls natural fire, and heat with this ability.
Fire Projection- The spark can create and expel flame.
Fire Infusion- The spark can infuse objects or individuals with qualities of fire, without harming the recipient.

Each ability would need to be levelled up individually, like skills. A symbiote might grant a + rating to certain parts of their ability, but
not too others. Lets assume without a symbitoe the maximum a Spark coudl reach is 3(of 6). They could thus still cause some neat
effects, but without a Symbiote they can never achieve their maximum potential.
    This is my current train of thought, at least. The more I conceptualize for Sparks the more I lean towards natural mages with very limited application of power (ie: they only are able to wield their particular gift of the Spark, and no others). The symbiotes are currently still included to make them different from Dreamers, and to give them a conflict that doesnt deal with common inter-personal or purely metaphysical issues.

Looking at Ramidels point, I think perhaps the easiest way to counter the sway issue is to make it so that in order to GAIN sway or LOSE sway, the expended power must be "equivalent" to their current level of Sway.

So if Bob has -4 Sway, and wanted to reach -3, he would need to perform 4 positive acts, or 1 really big positive act. So he would need to heal 4 people to gain +1, or heal 1 person for the equivalent of what 4 people would require. Would this, on its own, solve the potential for abuse in this circumstance?

Chris,

You need to decide if you want sway to result from moral right and wrong or creation and destruction.  If it is right and wrong then the issue Ramidel brought up is irrelevant.  If the PC has committed to many acts of evil he will be forced to commit some acts of good to keep himself centered.  If you don't like this, you can say that an act of 'good' performed for selfish reasons is not good at all and thus gives no positive sway.  This would make it much easier to become a Chimera then their good equivlent and, I believe, supports your games objectives.

If you want creation/destruction to be the balance, then you don't need to worry about 'player abuse' at all.  It will be a nonissue.  Getting slightly close to a -1 from all that disintegration?  Summon a bolder above them.  Or inside of them.  You can hurt people just as effectively with creation as destruction.  As for healing, they could unmake the germs and infection to counteract the regeneration of the flesh.

Best,
        Bill

Another good point Bill. And you totally grasp what dreamers could accomplish. I love it :)

As for the destruction/creation vs good/evil thing:

I picture Mortal Heros as being driven by good/evil. I see Dreamers are beign influenced by Creation/Destruction, as they are linked to the Fabric directly and thus are subject to its laws and not-so-static aspects. In fact, ditching the "Incarna" aspect makes more and more sense overall. I very much like the idea of them rejoining the Fabric if they get too high (effectively character death), and becoming either a spawning ground for Chimera, or a Chimera themselves at too low a Sway.

As for the Sparks, that remains to be seen. Im thinking a blend of the two concepts. Mortals deal purely with good/evil, dreamers deal with more abstract ideas (creation and destruction) and Sparks deal with both issues. I think that actually fits well, since most "wizards" you read about may be good, or evil....but their motivations are usually difficult to figure out and often they do merely what is required regardless of what it may mean morally.

Given the nature of the world, I can see Sparks as both knowing they are special by birth and thus thinking they are better than their fellows...and also terrified of their power because of the potential enemies they may attract....and the issues they face with their symbiotes

Chris,

If Dreamers are bound by the conflict between creation and destruction instead of good and evil, then you could have a dreamer who goes around slaughtering people and destroying cities who never really worries about the creation/destruction issues.  As long as he creates many fires as he unmakes flesh he can easily stay in the happy medium. 

This also changes the way Chimera should work.  Since they are at the most negative end of the Dreamer scale, they should follow the same rules.  So instead of beings of fear, hate and evil they should be beings of nothingness.  They do not care about good or evil.  They simply exist to unmake.  One day you have a town, the next you don't.  Where once a great empire sprawled across the lands, now it never existed.

While there is nothing wrong with the conflict between creation and destruction, it seems like a different angle then you have been taking before.  Are you sure this conflict fits with the thematics of your game and the kind of play you want?

Best,
        Bill

hmmm. A very valid point...it's certainly a tough call, due to the highly philosophical nature of the debate, as it were.

I think I see what you mean, however. Additionally, I think simple Good and Evil are FAR easier for the average gamer to grasp. To avoid alienating players (especially given the lack of humans in the game world) it may make sense to keep it simple instead of going for grandiose concepts that may never bear fruit as intended.

You are my savior :) hehe.

Using Good/Evil will also still be quite open to interpretation anyhow (like Creation /Destruction) since everyone views good and evil in very different ways anyhow.

This will force some "forcing" in some regards, since I will need to define without doubt what constitutes an Evil and a Good action in terms of play. Obviously killing would be considered evil, unless said creature was itself evil and its death prevented the death of countless others. Healing would be considered inherently good, unless of course they heal said evil thing so that it CAN kill tons more people.

The question is...how to make it an unavoidable aspect of being a Dreamer, and affect them adequately?

Should a Sway check be made only upon moral issues? Or should it be made with every single use of their power, based on how that particular power would be interpreted by the Fabric?> or by the mortal world? or both?

Better yet, is there a way to MELD the evil/good with the create/destroy ? All things I will have to contemplate. I am approaching the section of the book which details dreamers and their reality, so the time has definitely come to finalize the concepts. I'll type up the details when I have a chance and start a new post with the information present for close and anal-retentive scrutiny :)

Chris,

Here is one option for determining whether or not an action is "good" or "evil".

You have 3 types of good.  These goods are:  Personal, society, world.  Personal good is the least of these goods, society in the middle and the world the greatest.  Actions which purely benefit of these goods cause no sway.  Only if one of these goods is put at risk or sacrificed for another does sway occur.

To gain positive sway you would need to sacrifice personal good for either your society or the world as a whole OR your society for the world as a whole.

To gain negative sway you would have to sacrifice either the world as a whole or your society for personal good OR the world as a whole for your society.

This is based on a similar model shown to me by Dr. Edwards in one of his biology classes.  His model didn't refer to good or evil, rather 'shifting in' and 'shifting out'.  St. Thomas Aquinas gives a very similar model in the Summa Theologica which uses the same moral language shown here.  (Although a bit more in depth.)

Best,
        Bill

ooooooh. Now THAT I like. It brings up an interesting conflict.

Dreamer wants to hide his powers from the masses so as not to attract chimera, or jealous sparks, etc. But when he DOES use his powers he needs to sacrifice himself or others, which could very easily poison how others view him, substantially. This provides a very cool backdrop....I like it.

Just to wake up my old point about mixing moralities, though...positive sway is still bad if you have too much of it, and there's still a necessity to start screwing the greater goods if you have been too much of a high-minded idealist lately.

"I've been saving the world and society at the expense of myself...time to poison my spouse (society) with my power so I can inherit her wealth and get myself a younger companion (personal)...it's just to keep me centered, yeah, that's it!" Perhaps this is a caricature, but again we see Dreamers forced to play the True Neutral. Is this an intentional consequence?

Also, what I could see happening is a deliberate screwing of one's own society for both one's own sake and the world's, "playing both sides against the middle," with the result that your Sway stays in equilibrium while you yourself keep gaining more and more personal benefit and your society keeps going more and more to hell in a handbasket. Again, this may be an intentional design decision, which drives Dreamers into the role of the Illuminati (You petty mortals don't matter, it's the fate of the world we're concerned with!), but if so, it needs to be expressed and the ramifications laid out.

The dreamers are the greatest weapon against the machinations of the Chimera. However, they were once mortals themselves and will still have those they love among that world.

the purpose of sway is not to force one to stay "true neutral" , but rather, for them to fight the chimera in the way they deem as most effective....or to allow themselves to fall victim to such creatures in order to gain more personal power. They are jsut like mortals in this regard. Their decisions are no more grand, nor more important on the personal level.

On the global scale however, their fall from grace, as it were, could cause the suffering of untold thousands should they become a tool of the Chimera.Conversely, if they become laced with the pure energies of good they may rejoin the Fabric which grants them there power, thus ceasing to exist and unable to contribute to the good fight anymore.

the Sway of an individual stands to grant them additional power in their favored way of fighting against the blackness of the chimera. Staying neutral may be "ideal" , but it also provides thm no benefits and therefore limits the effects of their power. Thus, while there is little danger in being neutral, it also means that they are essentially "weak" as compared to their brethren.

Ramidel,

I believe that one of the reasons Chris the Sayter implemented Sway is to create the kind of moral ambiguity that you seem to dislike.  Humans, by their very nature, are neither purely good nor evil.  We shift back and forth between self intrest, nepotism, mutualism and altruism.  We need to in order to survive and increase our own fitness potential.

Dreamers, on the other hand, do not suffer from many of the "minor" issues we do.  They are above them.  They do not benefit from exploiting their fellow man.  What ever resource they could gain they can not simply conjure up themselves.  Like wise they have no need for the reciprocity that altruistic activities create.

A Dreamer's true struggle is to remain human.  The nature of their magic draws them into something... other.  They shift and change based on their magic.  If they shift to far either way they loose their humanity.  This strikes me as a cool conflict.

Mortal Heroes, on the other hand, strive to be more then human.  Because they have less power they strive for the kinds of extreams that Dreamers dare not touch.  By becoming an ideal they inspire people to become more then they are.

At this moment it seems like Mortal Heroes only benefit from the positive extream.  However, it would be a very valid design decision for Chris the Sayter to allow Moral Heroes gain similar benefits from the other extream.  People can be just as driven by selfserving goals, fear or hate as they are by love and devotion.

I would argue that the deep moral conflict in this game is its strongest point.  Dreamers are naturally drawn to extreams and must struggle to stay human.  Mortal heroes are naturally drawn to normal human morality and must struggle to reach extreams.  This creates a plethora of opportunities of unique internal and external conflict.

Best,
       Bill

jeez bill. You even baffle me with your responses sometimes :) Thats pretty much how I envisioned it going...I just wasnt sure if i had conveyed in my posts that message. But it seems that you have grasped it perfectly.

I will say one thing though...do you ahve ANY idea how hard it is to write the ideas down on paper in a form that fits the book? Trying not to make it sound like a damn science and psychology manual is a trying task. I have the "setting" section basically done as far as dreamers are concerned. there is some redundancy in it still, at this point, seeing as its in first draft, but i will post it probably tomorrow or friday....ill need to host it on my site methinks, since its 16 pages and posting that will be a pain in the arse.

Heck, I could even combine all the info i have thus far into a single document for perusal, although I dont yet think its ready for that yet. I am still working out conflicts between the nations to fit the "current" time frame based on recent alterations from posts on this board. The world doesnt yet feel "alive" enough for my tastes. I had three of the five major nations allied...two of which were basically completely in order despite a 30 year war...bad. one of the enemy nations basically "vanished" (large plot potential here, but i left the "whys" blank and only gave seeds/hooks. Metaplot beyond system=bad). One empire is neutral, playing both sides (the woman oriented nation i posted about earlier in a diff post). The other kingdoms were isolated from everyone else...which just doesnt work with so much untamed wilderness beyond the borders of civilized areas.

but thats a whole different post :)

Chris,

Don't worry about your game looking like a Science or Psychology document.  We can disguise it as philosophy or religions ;p.

Seriously though, just get it written now and don't worry about what it looks like.  Like most rough drafts, it will mostlikely need to be torn appart and rewritten.  But that's OK, because it is so much easier to revise something then write it in the first place.

Also, don't worry about putting all of my musings in your game.  Many of them were conclusions that I came up with while reading the various pieces of this post.  Other people will come up with their own.  Feel free to use what you need, but don't feel that you need to stuff every bit in there.  And if you need to dub down the language I'll be more then happy to help.

By the way, are you going to allow Mortal Heroes to benefit from the negative extream as well as the positive?  There are a bunch of pros and cons to this.  MHs in many ways represent Free Will and evil is just as much a part of Free Will as good.  People can be just as inspired by selfishness, fear and greed as they can by love and devotion.  On the other hand, your ubervillians are evil.

On the other hand, does it make sense for someone who strives to embody what they ARE to make war on them?  Does this fit the Evil vs Not-Evil theme of the game?  Why don't they just work together?

On the original hand, the difference is people are accepting and propagating evil themselves.  When they choose the dark path it is still their Choice.  Chimeras are the opposite of that.  So its not the Good that empowers the MHs, but sort of a manifestation of free will, whether they do this through good or evil is not the point.  This would help propagate the moral ambiguity of your game.  This conflict is both more intricate and more intriguing then the simple Evil vs Not-Evil conflict.

Back to the other hand, it is also more thematically complicated.  Evil vs Not-Evil is already a step away from Good vs Evil.  Also, do you really want evil and debased player characters in the game?

Both sides have their strengths and weaknesses.  I would playtest it both ways if I were you and see what happens.  Personally I am leaning towards allowing Mortal Heroes to embody evil as well as good. 

Best,
      Bill

I want mortal heroes to be effecetd by evil as much as good. You dont need to be a good guy to be a hero.

Take Warhammer , for instance. Champions of Chaos are heroes to their people, even if they do like to butcher children and use their body parts as drumsticks.

As such, I fully intend MH's to be evil, OR good (although obviously I want to dissuade people palying evil characters as much as possible..since that isnt as fun, and it really dumbs down the entire concept of the moral issues. Someone who has no morals has absolutely nothing to deal with on a character level except for who to kill or backstab next.

So, aside from the loquaciousness here, yes MH's will be fully capable of being good OR evil. Its definitely a matter of choice for them. Do they strive to aid their people and expand beyond the borders of the civilized world and drive back the coming darkness....or work on the other end of the spectrum and expand to inflict pain and terror, ruling as a despot and showing no mercy to anyone?

The only real issue here is "Where do Evil Mortals Fit" when it comes to the Chimera? I mean, they are able to corrupt the Dreamers who are foolish enough to let themselves reach a negative sway. They feed off the terror and pains of mortals...so would they really have any need to "use" a mortal for their own advantage? Would the evil character in question simply be a convenient tool for them to spread their taint (with the mortal not even knowing that he is a pawn)...and to be destroyed later once he has served his purpose?

I see the Chimera as a Lovecraftian horror, with absolutely no real interest in the sentient races which are not among their own number. The mortal real exists as cattle to them, and is worth little else. Would the MH with an evil side be likely to worship such evil entities, or would it suit them better to be completely self-servign individuals?

ie: should the mortals sway deal with Virtues, Black/White, or some other factor?

Chris,

The way I see it, Mortal Heroes, for Good or Evil, are embodiments of Free Will.  That is the one thing that the Chimera can not understand.  Evil they get, and consume.  Good is simply a void of evil.  If there is no evil somewhere they put evil there.  Then they feast.

If Mortal Heroes are empowered by belief and devotion then you can say that it does not matter where that devotion comes from.  Sure, the side effect might feed the Chimera.  If a Mortal Hero inspires greedy and self-serving ends then the Chimera will be able to feed on the suffering those whom follow him cause to the people they hurt.  But the people who he inspired are immune because of their devotion.

Now, this might anger the Chimera.  Here is this big buffet of evil and they can only nibble at the appetisers.  But if they kill the Mortal Hero who inspires the evil, these people will loose their devotion and their evil will once again be easy to consume.

If you take this rout then players can feel free to be evil.  They won't loose any power or options.  However, they will have a big metaphorical bullseye on their forheads.  This would make evil Mortal Heroes less desirable to play.  And should someone decide to play then, their story would be less one of extream greed and excess then it would be one of survival.

Best,
        Bill

Interesting. I rather like that angle.

Additionally, the Chimera might see him as a very valuable tool, in a sense.

They can nibble only on the appetizers....but say that hero then ammasses a huge army. They let this foolish evil hero charge into battle with his men...and then spring the trap on those not protected...perhaps one of his closest comrades somehow gets possessed by a Fear chimera...and strikes down the hero. Suddenly there is a veritable SMORGASBORG of things to destroy...not jsut ONE army...but TWO.

Very cool. This adds a very nice Judas (or maybe even a Pontius Pilate) angle to the whole thing. Judas the betrayer...striking down the hero (wihch coudl very easily happen to the Good heros too) or the Chimera as Pontisu...turning a blind eye and seeing what happens. Perhaps a poor analogy, but you get the idea.

I'll run with this, and develop it a tad more. It certainly fleshes out the mortal hero aspect for the evil side. Initially I had Good and Evil simply getting different "powers" (a la Paladins/Dark Paladins) , but that was just too damn basic.

You seem to be going down a nice thread here, and it is quite interesting, but have you considered the alternative that the Evil Mortal Hero might have the potential (and possible desire) to oppose Dreamers directly, much as the Good MH has the potential to join in Battle against the big bads?

Instead of the Evil HM being a pawn or antagonist to the Chimera, than could be an ally. Perhaps their powers keep them from becoming nightmares directly (almost necessary or they won't be playing their characters for long). Chimera could view these heroic mortals as comrades, or at least useful tools.
To that end, the hero's powers would now function against Dreamers, not Nightmares etc. They would be a natural opponent to a Good Hero, and a Supernatural opponent to a Dreamer.

This would still use sway, but it would be QUITE different from Dreamers Sway. You would likely decide early on if you are good or bad, and would thereafter only pay attention to that side of the scale. A Heroic Mortal would NEED to get to one end of the scale or the other to gain power and influence their followers, as Bill stated already. This is obviously quite different from the juggling act the Dreamers must pursue.

From a GM or even player perspective, I sure wouldn't want an Evil HM in a mixed campaign, but if you were to make Nightmares playable, they and Evil Mortal Heroes would be a good addition to an Evil based game.

As an aside regarding Dreamer numbers... if they start dwindling, wouldn't void just spawn more of them?

Going back to the discussion regarding cults/priapts (please excuse my lack of familiarity with your terminology)... have you considered replacing it with a Conviction/Belief/Moral Compass type trait? Replacing it with a list of X number of beliefs they can choose from (or make their own) could cover the same game mechanic.

As it stands, if you had such small groups with such common beliefs they would be a pretty tight unit, and why would you even want to associate with Dreamers outside your cult on a regular basis when you had such like minded people to be with?  THAT would be your group of player characters, but few groups of players would all want to be the same priapt as it seems to define them quite a bit, and people like feeling that their characters are unique.

Therefore, changing the mechanic to a more personal one of belief structure, and getting rid of cults as a mechanic (but not entirely), might make sense.

The cults could then refer to the group of player characters and THEIR underlying beliefs, desires and/or goals, which are discussed by the group of Players at character creation, and in that way would very much give focus to a game.

Also, there is nothing wrong with a GM creating this aspect (preferably with Player input) to give focus to a game. "You belong to a priapt that believes so and so and are fighting for such and such. Now go make a character!"

You can even reuse some of your descriptions and names for famous priapts that have come before, that the players can model theirs upon.

It may be interesting, as [RANT] I find too many games promote an unhealthy level of character (not Player) Independence - this is a GAME after all, to be enjoyed by all, and playing a character that has no reason for being in the 'group', and would realistically leave it in a second is 1) almost impossible to manage as a GM 2) just plain silly for the average game of your type (there are exceptions - some games pit the characters against each other!) and 3) often ruins the mood entirely as the player goads his unwilling character into the game, or even worse the GM does it for him somehow. In my experience, bad GM's either let you make your character in a void, and then scramble to make excuses to get and keep the group together, or on the opposite end simply hand you a filled in Character sheet and tell you that this is your character.. [/RANT]

Archer:

Two absolutely great ideas. MH as a "ally" to specific forces, "tilting" mortals into the opposite ends of the Sway scale...I like.

As for Periapts...that makes perfect sense, and makes my job totally easier as a side effect. Besides, it would make sense on another level besides bonding with those you share a common goal with despite your diff. powers....you could then mix and match your powers (even haev one dreamer with bad neg. sway using neg powers and vice versa) so as to maximize efficiency, and minimize the penalties of Sway in the first place.

I think I will incorporate this, in fact. It makes sense based on numbers of Dreamers, and how a bunch of people with amazing powers they dont understand would bond together instinctually to increase their chances of survival.